Andy Hall wrote:

Plus I don't like the look of the guy on the front cover of the Viking
catalogue.

Is it just me, or does he remind anyone else of Fred Pontin's "Book
early!" TV ads of about 30 years ago?

David

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-04 16:39:39 +0100, Graeme said:

Yes, it is.

No. They only "have" to do this because the law is the way that it
is. Laws can be changed or dumped entirely - they are a means to an
end, not a raison d'etre.

You are moving the goal posts - the point of the discussion was the
comparatively excellent service RM provides, in spite of the built in
handicaps which include the requirement to deliver anywhere, for the
same price. A requirement not applicable to the competition. Yes, of
course the law can be changed, but, at the time of writing, it has not
been.

True - but using a directory was faster!

Actually it was pretty good. I've used them a few times.

I didn't use Minitel, but did use Prestel extensively, and although it
was revolutionary at the time, it was S-L-O-W. When was that? 1970s?

Another 10-15 years and I think that paper based mail services will be
largely irrelevant. Put it this way. I might buy more stock in
Fedex. I sure as hell wouldn't buy any in Royal Mail.

I'll archive that post for twenty years :-)

Doubtless there were millions of people alive when buses were
introduced, and equally doubtless a great many of them went to their
graves never having used any form of motorised transport.

Of course. But nobody gave a second thought about introducing
motorised transport.

No-one gave a thought about introducing computers, home PCs, the
Internet, modems or broadband, but that does not mean that everyone is
capable of using them, any more than introducing motorised transport
automatically made everyone capable of driving.

I should have said have access to. Most people have access to, via
a public library, but that does not provide the skill or confidence
to use it.

Once again the mentality that there needs to be some kind of public
sector involvement in provisioning of this kind of thing. All the
time that there are these attempts to spoon feed people rather poorly,
they won't take responsibility for themselves. As soon as they have
to make their own arrangements, they will.

Let us return to your motorised transport theme. You would be happy for
anyone and everyone to have access to such transport, without any form
of training? You would expect anyone to be able to climb behind the
wheel of a vehicle, and intuitively know how to drive? No, you would
not. Ordinary people have no more idea about computers than they have
about driving. Instruction is required - there was no mention of free
instruction, or spoon feeding.

--
Graeme

On 2007-05-05 10:05:45 +0100, Lobster said:

Andy Hall wrote:

Plus I don't like the look of the guy on the front cover of the Viking
catalogue.

Is it just me, or does he remind anyone else of Fred Pontin's "Book
early!" TV ads of about 30 years ago?

David

There is something about him that makes me feel distinctly uncomfortable...

On 2007-05-05 10:11:27 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-04 16:39:39 +0100, Graeme said:

Yes, it is.

No. They only "have" to do this because the law is the way that it
is. Laws can be changed or dumped entirely - they are a means to an
end, not a raison d'etre.

You are moving the goal posts

Nope - just discussing the subject in the broadest sense.


- the point of the discussion was the comparatively excellent service
RM provides, in spite of the built in handicaps which include the
requirement to deliver anywhere, for the same price.

Compared with what? The word "excellent" could only be used for
levels of comparison approaching zero.


A requirement not applicable to the competition. Yes, of course the
law can be changed, but, at the time of writing, it has not been.

A simple enough matter



True - but using a directory was faster!

Actually it was pretty good. I've used them a few times.

I didn't use Minitel, but did use Prestel extensively, and although it
was revolutionary at the time, it was S-L-O-W. When was that? 1970s?

That was because of the systems running it. Minitel was perfectly fine.



Another 10-15 years and I think that paper based mail services will be
largely irrelevant. Put it this way. I might buy more stock in
Fedex. I sure as hell wouldn't buy any in Royal Mail.

I'll archive that post for twenty years :-)

It's a pretty safe bet. Paper based mail in comparison with
electronic communication is largely already irrelevant.





Doubtless there were millions of people alive when buses were
introduced, and equally doubtless a great many of them went to their
graves never having used any form of motorised transport.

Of course. But nobody gave a second thought about introducing
motorised transport.

No-one gave a thought about introducing computers, home PCs, the
Internet, modems or broadband, but that does not mean that everyone is
capable of using them, any more than introducing motorised transport
automatically made everyone capable of driving.

Exactly. As they increasingly become the only thing available people
will either learn or won't be able to communicate and do other things.
It isn't going to alter the march of technology.




I should have said have access to. Most people have access to, via a
public library, but that does not provide the skill or confidence to
use it.

Once again the mentality that there needs to be some kind of public
sector involvement in provisioning of this kind of thing. All the
time that there are these attempts to spoon feed people rather poorly,
they won't take responsibility for themselves. As soon as they have
to make their own arrangements, they will.

Let us return to your motorised transport theme. You would be happy
for anyone and everyone to have access to such transport, without any
form of training? You would expect anyone to be able to climb behind
the wheel of a vehicle, and intuitively know how to drive? No, you
would not. Ordinary people have no more idea about computers than they
have about driving. Instruction is required - there was no mention of
free instruction, or spoon feeding.

No. *Instruction* isn't required. *Learning* is.

Actually one can use the driving analogy to a limited extent.

The requirement, in order to drive on the public roads is to pass a
prescribed test. There is no requirement to go to a driving school
for instructor based training, although many people do. Other people
go out supervised by someone with a license, while others with access
to private land can drive around on their own and teach themselves if
they so choose.

In article ,
Lobster wrote:
Andy Hall wrote:

Plus I don't like the look of the guy on the front cover of the
Viking catalogue.

Is it just me, or does he remind anyone else of Fred Pontin's
"Book early!" TV ads of about 30 years ago?

If it's the same one, we used to call him "The
Man with the Pointy Finger".

"Used to" because I got so p'd off with the
ustoppable flood of Viking junkmail.

--
Tony Williams.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
- the point of the discussion was the comparatively excellent service
RM provides, in spite of the built in handicaps which include the
requirement to deliver anywhere, for the same price.

Compared with what? The word "excellent" could only be used for
levels of comparison approaching zero.

Eh? I post a letter or small package in the box at the end of my road and
my brother in the north of Scotland gets it the next day. No other service
currently can match that for convenience and cost. And I'll bet non will
ever offer public post boxes. Similarly for smaller parcels using the RM
service rather than Parcel Post. To take one to my local post office easy
- not so to the nearest carrier's depot. Also the nearest carrier to me
only allows payment by cheque to non account customers. They're really out
to provide a service...;-)

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Graeme wrote:
In message , raden writes
In message , Andy Hall writes

A simple web browser environment and nothing else is one way around
that problem; or even walled garden environments like AOL or MSNTV

No - you still can't see the point that she finds it alien and she's
scared of it

Geoff, I understand exactly what you are saying.

My Mum is now 82, and prior to retiring, had been employed by the same
solicitor from just after WWII, with time off when my brother and I were
born. I suppose, these days, she would have been a 'legal executive'.
Anyway, just prior to her retirement, the firm was taken over, and word
processors were introduced. Poor old Mum was reduced to tears on a
daily basis, because she just couldn't 'get it', in the way that we can,
and do.

Reminds me of an item on out local TV news recently, AFAICR they were
featuring an old dear celebrating her 100th birthday and she was still
working in the same office as she had done for ever - she was using a
typewriter while all the others in the open plan office were of course
on PCs.

It amused me somewhat watching all the coworkers smiling benignly at her
clattering away at her keyboard - I imagine that once the cameras were
off they would be tearing out their hair at the infernal din she was
making, which would have been de rigeur throughout offices 30 years ago!

David

On 2007-05-05 12:11:09 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
- the point of the discussion was the comparatively excellent service
RM provides, in spite of the built in handicaps which include the
requirement to deliver anywhere, for the same price.

Compared with what? The word "excellent" could only be used for
levels of comparison approaching zero.

Eh? I post a letter or small package in the box at the end of my road and
my brother in the north of Scotland gets it the next day. No other service
currently can match that for convenience and cost.

I order something from the U.S. and the supplier sends it by USPS. It
arrives at the Mount Pleasant sorting office 3 days later.

I get a card from RM *nearly three weeks* later wanting payment for VAT
and wanting identity by credit card or equivalent in order to receive
my property. They won't deliver.

I have to go to the post office and stand for nearly half an hour in
the pouring rain. They use credit cards for ID but won't accept for
payment. They can't explain why they can't take payment on line and
then deliver or better still invoice afterwards. Overall, the
exercise takes more than an hour and has an opportunity cost of more
than £100.

No other service matches that for inconvenience and high cost.




And I'll bet non will
ever offer public post boxes.

Actually Fedex do in the U.S.

Similarly for smaller parcels using the RM
service rather than Parcel Post.

The only thing I find them just about viable to do is to send documents
to my accountant a couple of times a month.

To take one to my local post office easy
- not so to the nearest carrier's depot.

I just call them and they show up a couple of hours later and collect.
That has by far the lowest cost.


Also the nearest carrier to me
only allows payment by cheque to non account customers. They're really out
to provide a service...;-)

I have accounts with most of them so no problem there.

On Fri, 4 May 2007 16:49:06 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:


But you've got to admit that London Transport don't have all that many
horse drawn buses in operation these days.

They would probably operate somewhat quicker if they did.

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
I order something from the U.S. and the supplier sends it by USPS. It
arrives at the Mount Pleasant sorting office 3 days later.

I get a card from RM *nearly three weeks* later wanting payment for VAT
and wanting identity by credit card or equivalent in order to receive
my property. They won't deliver.

I have to go to the post office and stand for nearly half an hour in
the pouring rain. They use credit cards for ID but won't accept for
payment. They can't explain why they can't take payment on line and
then deliver or better still invoice afterwards. Overall, the
exercise takes more than an hour and has an opportunity cost of more
than £100.

Weird. I've bought several items from the US that involved duty payable
and not had this problem.

--
*Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2007-05-05 13:36:52 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
I order something from the U.S. and the supplier sends it by USPS. It
arrives at the Mount Pleasant sorting office 3 days later.

I get a card from RM *nearly three weeks* later wanting payment for VAT
and wanting identity by credit card or equivalent in order to receive
my property. They won't deliver.

I have to go to the post office and stand for nearly half an hour in
the pouring rain. They use credit cards for ID but won't accept for
payment. They can't explain why they can't take payment on line and
then deliver or better still invoice afterwards. Overall, the
exercise takes more than an hour and has an opportunity cost of more
than £100.

Weird. I've bought several items from the US that involved duty payable
and not had this problem.

If there had been duty as opposed to just VAT or the amount of VAT had
been in the hundreds of pounds and it had been the first time, I
wouldn't have minded quite so much. That was certainly the last time
they do it to me.

All suppliers are now checked as to who they will use for shipment.
If there's a choice, I will choose the non-RM option. If there isn't
and they don't want to agree to one, the business goes elsewhere and I
tell the supplier why.

As to the courier firms, I receive regular shipments and both DHL and
Fedex invoice me for the import VAT after delivery of the goods.
Quite often this amounts to a few £000 of VAT but never any issues.
Generally they get paid in 14-30 days. It isn't unreasonable to expect
that level of service.

On 2007-05-05 14:10:20 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
So base it on weight and size. Besides..... Granny and Auntie can
just as easily send an email.
But they can't enclose a fiver in an email - at least not in a form
that can be spent easily by a child at the local shop.
- The child has a bank or building society account ...
- Prepaid card. These can be set up once and topped up by granny or
anyone else.
Apart from the money given, there are several educational experiences
as well, which make the whole exercise much better than sending a fiver.

I'm all for early educational experiences, but when you're five years
old nothing beats a nice crisp fiver.

Well, I don't know. Maybe today's five-year-olds turn their noses up at
anythign that doesn't have an MP3 player in it.

Yep.



- Visiting a bank branch, discovering that they are almost as bad as
building societies, getting the cash from a machine anyway and
wondering what the purpose for the branch is anyway.

When I was a child the local branch always had a christmas tree with
Quality Street sweets underneath.



... and the it that your mum didn't tell you was that the bank manager
charged customers for them.....

On 2007-05-05 14:14:56 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
No. *Instruction* isn't required. *Learning* is.
Actually one can use the driving analogy to a limited extent.
The requirement, in order to drive on the public roads is to pass a
prescribed test. There is no requirement to go to a driving school
for instructor based training,

There is if you want to ride a motorbike.


Yes, but who would want to do that?

On Fri, 4 May 2007 22:45:31 +0100 Andy Hall wrote :
Something that works like and on a tv?

Been done: I bought a box like this for my mum a good few years back: it
plugged into a phone socket and the TV and had a wireless keyboard so that
you could surf the web from your armchair. But the combination of dialup
and TV quality display made it a less than wonderful experience. It may
yet be reinvented with HD TV and broadband.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

In message , JohnW
writes
The Medway Handyman, in article f1fq6q$53n$1
, says...

And how come a letter sent from Lands End
to John O'Groats is the same price as sending one to the next street?

Because the local letter is probably often routed via Lands
End :-) Here, everything goes via Glasgow, even if for the
next street... Some "process guru" has determined it better
to write one procedure for everything rather than bother to
add the extra page to deal with local routing. :-)

Grin It is true. Anything posted at my office goes to the nearest
main sorting office, 50 miles away, and ,if local, comes back the next
morning. It would certainly avoid that journey, if post collected
within my area were sorted locally. Two potential problems. Firstly,
there is absolutely no machinery here for sorting, and no-one to sort.
Additional staff are expensive. Secondly, if the outgoing mail were
delayed, that which was going further afield would miss the trucks or
planes going south.
--
Graeme

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:

Compared with what? The word "excellent" could only be used for
levels of comparison approaching zero.

Eh? I post a letter or small package in the box at the end of my road and
my brother in the north of Scotland gets it the next day. No other service
currently can match that for convenience and cost.

Absolutely. You will never match Royal Mail for cost/service by using
some private, cherry picking courier. They just couldn't do it, and
provide truly a national service.

And I'll bet non will
ever offer public post boxes. Similarly for smaller parcels using the RM
service rather than Parcel Post. To take one to my local post office easy
- not so to the nearest carrier's depot. Also the nearest carrier to me
only allows payment by cheque to non account customers. They're really out
to provide a service...;-)

The couriers are probably great if you happen to live in or near a large
city, but hopeless for those of us who prefer a more rural existence.

--
Graeme

In message , Andy Hall writes

I have to go to the post office and stand for nearly half an hour in
the pouring rain.

Ask the man behind the counter to mend the roof. (See? Nearly back on
topic).

--
Graeme

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes

Weird. I've bought several items from the US that involved duty payable
and not had this problem.

Ditto. I have received many hundreds of packages from USA, Canada,
Europe and Australia over the last, say, five years, ranging in value
from a few pounds to hundreds of pounds. The ONLY problems have been
with parcels carried by idiot couriers. Luckily, they are a very small
minority.
--
Graeme

On 2007-05-05 17:55:17 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:

Compared with what? The word "excellent" could only be used for
levels of comparison approaching zero.

Eh? I post a letter or small package in the box at the end of my road and
my brother in the north of Scotland gets it the next day. No other service
currently can match that for convenience and cost.

Absolutely. You will never match Royal Mail for cost/service by using
some private, cherry picking courier. They just couldn't do it, and
provide truly a national service.

Of course they can. It's simply a matter of what people are willing to pay.



And I'll bet non will
ever offer public post boxes. Similarly for smaller parcels using the RM
service rather than Parcel Post. To take one to my local post office easy
- not so to the nearest carrier's depot. Also the nearest carrier to me
only allows payment by cheque to non account customers. They're really out
to provide a service...;-)

The couriers are probably great if you happen to live in or near a
large city, but hopeless for those of us who prefer a more rural
existence.

Curious idea. I can and have had packages delivered to and collected
from far more remote places than Scotland in two days.

On 2007-05-05 17:58:53 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes

Weird. I've bought several items from the US that involved duty payable
and not had this problem.

Ditto. I have received many hundreds of packages from USA, Canada,
Europe and Australia over the last, say, five years, ranging in value
from a few pounds to hundreds of pounds. The ONLY problems have been
with parcels carried by idiot couriers. Luckily, they are a very small
minority.

So please explain to me how to arrange that Royal Mail delivers a
package to me and invoices me for the import VAT afterwards.

If you can do that, please provide the details of their procedure and
how to ensure that my local office follows it.

On Sat, 5 May 2007 18:20:42 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|!On 2007-05-05 17:58:53 +0100, Graeme said:
|!
|! In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
|! writes
|!
|! Weird. I've bought several items from the US that involved duty payable
|! and not had this problem.
|!
|! Ditto. I have received many hundreds of packages from USA, Canada,
|! Europe and Australia over the last, say, five years, ranging in value
|! from a few pounds to hundreds of pounds. The ONLY problems have been
|! with parcels carried by idiot couriers. Luckily, they are a very small
|! minority.
|!
|!So please explain to me how to arrange that Royal Mail delivers a
|!package to me and invoices me for the import VAT afterwards.
|!
|!If you can do that, please provide the details of their procedure and
|!how to ensure that my local office follows it.

They did not deliver such a package to me.
They said "come and collect it from the local Office and pay us ????"

--
Dave Fawthrop sf hyphenologist.co.uk 165 *Free* SF ebooks.
165 Sci Fi books on CDROM, from Project Gutenberg
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/Main_Page Completely Free to any
address in the UK. Contact me on the *above* email address.

On 2007-05-05 17:56:47 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , Andy Hall writes

I have to go to the post office and stand for nearly half an hour in
the pouring rain.

Ask the man behind the counter to mend the roof. (See? Nearly back on topic).

Oh the roof isn't broken.

This is a main post office in a town centre with plenty of space inside
and plenty of counters. Usually it has a queue of about 20 people,
two people serving and another 6 milling around in the background
pretending to look busy.

If I have to collect a package, I have to go to a window at the side of
the building outside, over which there is a 1m square porch. That
will keep one person dry as long as it isn't windy.

The building has a car park at the rear, but customers are not allowed
to use it. There is a hand written notice to the effect that they will
not be served if they do, or if they have the temerity to use their
mobile phone even while waiting in line. I could understand it not
being reasonable to use a phone while being served, but it isn't for RM
employees to dictate the behaviour of the customers who are paying
their wages when they haven't (yet) engaged in conversation with them
to serve them.

How any of that can be described as any level of service beggars belief.

- The staff inside should be focused on minimising queuing time for
customers. They can do their other work later

- Collection should be available inside the building

- The car park should be available for customer use. it's simple
enough to have a token barrier to prevent misuse.



If a service actually were being offered, they would be delivering the
goods and sending an invoice afterwards. Everybody else manages that.

On 2007-05-05 18:25:40 +0100, Dave Fawthrop
said:

On Sat, 5 May 2007 18:20:42 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

|!On 2007-05-05 17:58:53 +0100, Graeme said:
|!
|! In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
|! writes
|!
|! Weird. I've bought several items from the US that involved duty payable
|! and not had this problem.
|!
|! Ditto. I have received many hundreds of packages from USA, Canada,
|! Europe and Australia over the last, say, five years, ranging in value
|! from a few pounds to hundreds of pounds. The ONLY problems have been
|! with parcels carried by idiot couriers. Luckily, they are a very small
|! minority.
|!
|!So please explain to me how to arrange that Royal Mail delivers a
|!package to me and invoices me for the import VAT afterwards.
|!
|!If you can do that, please provide the details of their procedure and
|!how to ensure that my local office follows it.

They did not deliver such a package to me.
They said "come and collect it from the local Office and pay us ????"

Absolutely.

There were no other options offered, the whole procedure was highly
inconvenient and because of the time taken, expensive as well.

"Graeme" wrote in message
...
In message , JohnW
writes
The Medway Handyman, in article f1fq6q$53n$1
, says...

And how come a letter sent from Lands End
to John O'Groats is the same price as sending one to the next street?

Because the local letter is probably often routed via Lands
End :-) Here, everything goes via Glasgow, even if for the
next street... Some "process guru" has determined it better
to write one procedure for everything rather than bother to
add the extra page to deal with local routing. :-)

Grin It is true. Anything posted at my office goes to the nearest main
sorting office, 50 miles away, and ,if local, comes back the next morning.
It would certainly avoid that journey, if post collected within my area
were sorted locally. Two potential problems. Firstly, there is
absolutely no machinery here for sorting, and no-one to sort. Additional
staff are expensive. Secondly, if the outgoing mail were delayed, that
which was going further afield would miss the trucks or planes going
south.
--
Graeme

Here, on the south coast, all the 'input' sorting offices have been scrapped
(AIUI) and every piece of mail goes to Redhill. At Redhill -handy for
Gatwick - it's sorted then bundled back to the local 'sorting' offices which
deal with 'outgoing' mail. So to post a letter to my next-door neighbour,
the missive will clock up forty(?) miles there .. and forty(?) miles back.
But it's efficient ... the junk-mail leaflet from RM said so!

--

Brian

On Sat, 5 May 2007 14:10:20 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

As to the courier firms, I receive regular shipments and both DHL and
Fedex invoice me for the import VAT after delivery of the goods.
Quite often this amounts to a few £000 of VAT but never any issues.

Once upon a time I received some maps from the USA, value of 250.00
dollars. They came via Fedex and were abandoned on the doorstep.
Some weeks later I received a bill from Fedex for about £2,500 - the
VAT and their fees on $25,000.

Despite all the paperwork showing $250 they insisted the shipper had
told them it was $25,000 (The shipper denied doing so - it would have
been 5 times greater than their highest ever order so they think they
would have remembered). The Fedex "solution" was for me to pay them
the £2,500 as "it doesn't matter - you are VAT registered and can
just reclaim it". Without a shadow of doubt they employed (in this
case) the most dimwitted, irrational and illiterate individuals it
was possible to find. I assume their training was franchised out to
the Mchamburger university.

They have an automatic letter writing system which was rejected by
eBay as being too useless. No matter what you wrote you got back one
of a dozen stock letters none of which had any relevance to the
problem.

It then turned out that a week before they had even sent the bill out
they had mistakenly passed the account to debt collectors as being
two months overdue. That put me onto a different loop of
auto-letters and gibbering loons not merely from Fedex but also from
their rentathugs. When you realise the most intelligent life form
you are dealing with is the receptionist in the firm of debt
collectors you begin to realise all is not well.

All in all it took several weeks and many hours dealing with the
illiterate Neanderthals before they finally admitted they had got the
amount wrong and also that 05/03/03 on an American bill does not mean
it was due on the 5th of March, two months before the parcel was even
posted.

I then got onto another treadmill of computer generated apology
letters from Presidents, Vice Presidents, Operations Presidents,
Customer Comfort Presidents, the flight attendant who sat with the
package on its way over and the warehouse floor sweeper who saw the
parcel on a rack whilst sweeping one evening.

All in all, most depressing.
--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-05 17:55:17 +0100, Graeme said:

The couriers are probably great if you happen to live in or near a
large city, but hopeless for those of us who prefer a more rural
existence.

Curious idea. I can and have had packages delivered to and collected
from far more remote places than Scotland in two days.

The only way that couriers ever manage to deliver anything in this area
(Deeside) is to come to the PO first, and ask for directions.

A courier came to my PO, and asked for directions to my house which,
unsurprisingly for a sub post office, is one and the same building. I
pointed to my own private front door, where my wife was waiting. The
courier eventually delivered the parcel to a house a hundred yards away,
where it was left outside, behind the garage. Signature, what
signature? I can have a more intelligent conversation with a post box
than a courier.
--
Graeme

In message , Andy Hall writes

If you can do that, please provide the details of their procedure and
how to ensure that my local office follows it.

I have no idea how the system operates in your part of the world. Here,
packages requiring payment are delivered to me. I write a grey card
(similar to the red 'while you were out' card). The postie delivers the
card. The recipient then comes to my warm, dry post office, pays cash
or cheque, and leaves with the package. Alternatively, the recipient
gives cash or a cheque to the postie, and he delivers the package.
Simple.
--
Graeme

In message , Peter Parry
writes

All in all, most depressing.

The moral of the story is to do what I do - avoid any Johnny Foreigner
who uses couriers.
--
Graeme

In message , Andy Hall writes

- The staff inside should be focused on minimising queuing time for
customers. They can do their other work later

We do.

- Collection should be available inside the building

It is.

- The car park should be available for customer use.

It is. OK, we don't have a car park, but free parking is available
outside.

--
Graeme

In message , Owain
writes
Andy Hall wrote:
No. *Instruction* isn't required. *Learning* is.
Actually one can use the driving analogy to a limited extent.
The requirement, in order to drive on the public roads is to pass a
prescribed test. There is no requirement to go to a driving school
for instructor based training,

There is if you want to ride a motorbike.

Really? How times change - I didn't have any formal training before
passing the bike test, but them I'm old :-)
--
Graeme

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-05 14:14:56 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
No. *Instruction* isn't required. *Learning* is.
Actually one can use the driving analogy to a limited extent.
The requirement, in order to drive on the public roads is to pass a
prescribed test. There is no requirement to go to a driving school
for instructor based training,

There is if you want to ride a motorbike.


Yes, but who would want to do that?

So you never have, presumably? Most fun you can have with your clothes
on, and all that...

David

On 2007-05-05 21:03:06 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , Andy Hall writes

If you can do that, please provide the details of their procedure and
how to ensure that my local office follows it.

I have no idea how the system operates in your part of the world.


I thought that you were telling me that it's a "universal service".
Why would the procedures vary?

Here, packages requiring payment are delivered to me.
I write a grey card (similar to the red 'while you were out' card).
The postie delivers the card. The recipient then comes to my warm, dry
post office, pays cash or cheque, and leaves with the package.
Alternatively, the recipient gives cash or a cheque to the postie, and
he delivers the package. Simple.

It would be if they actually did it. They don't.

In any case, why can't they simply deliver the goods and send an
invoice like the proper delivery firms do?

On 2007-05-05 21:05:34 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , Andy Hall writes

- The staff inside should be focused on minimising queuing time for
customers. They can do their other work later

We do.

You might. They don't




- Collection should be available inside the building

It is.

Another variation in the so-called "universal service"



- The car park should be available for customer use.

It is. OK, we don't have a car park, but free parking is available outside.

... and another.

Why should I also have to pay a car park fee of 60p in addition to
everything else because RM won't deliver?

On 2007-05-05 20:58:50 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-05 17:55:17 +0100, Graeme said:

The couriers are probably great if you happen to live in or near a
large city, but hopeless for those of us who prefer a more rural
existence.

Curious idea. I can and have had packages delivered to and collected
from far more remote places than Scotland in two days.

The only way that couriers ever manage to deliver anything in this area
(Deeside) is to come to the PO first, and ask for directions.

A courier came to my PO, and asked for directions to my house which,
unsurprisingly for a sub post office, is one and the same building. I
pointed to my own private front door, where my wife was waiting. The
courier eventually delivered the parcel to a house a hundred yards
away, where it was left outside, behind the garage. Signature, what
signature? I can have a more intelligent conversation with a post box
than a courier.

Do postboxes speak Scots Gaelic?

On Sat, 5 May 2007 20:17:16 UTC, Lobster
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-05 14:14:56 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
No. *Instruction* isn't required. *Learning* is.
Actually one can use the driving analogy to a limited extent.
The requirement, in order to drive on the public roads is to pass a
prescribed test. There is no requirement to go to a driving school
for instructor based training,

There is if you want to ride a motorbike.


Yes, but who would want to do that?

So you never have, presumably? Most fun you can have with your clothes
on, and all that...

Or, in some cases, with your clothes off! (seen Vanishing Point, the
original?)

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On 2007-05-05 21:17:16 +0100, Lobster said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-05 14:14:56 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
No. *Instruction* isn't required. *Learning* is.
Actually one can use the driving analogy to a limited extent.
The requirement, in order to drive on the public roads is to pass a
prescribed test. There is no requirement to go to a driving school
for instructor based training,

There is if you want to ride a motorbike.


Yes, but who would want to do that?

So you never have, presumably? Most fun you can have with your clothes
on, and all that...

David

I have to say that it's never appealed at all because of all of the
heavy clothing required to reduce the effect of falling off. Seems it
would be too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-05 21:05:34 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
- The staff inside should be focused on minimising queuing time for
customers. They can do their other work later
We do.

You might. They don't



- Collection should be available inside the building
It is.

Another variation in the so-called "universal service"


- The car park should be available for customer use.
It is. OK, we don't have a car park, but free parking is available
outside.

.. and another.

Why should I also have to pay a car park fee of 60p in addition to
everything else because RM won't deliver?


The capitalist system, eh ?

--
geoff

On 2007-05-05 22:14:26 +0100, raden said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-05 21:05:34 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
- The staff inside should be focused on minimising queuing time for
customers. They can do their other work later
We do.

You might. They don't



- Collection should be available inside the building
It is.

Another variation in the so-called "universal service"


- The car park should be available for customer use.
It is. OK, we don't have a car park, but free parking is available outside.

.. and another.

Why should I also have to pay a car park fee of 60p in addition to
everything else because RM won't deliver?


The capitalist system, eh ?

'cept it isn't....

On Sat, 5 May 2007 21:51:23 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-05-05 21:17:16 +0100, Lobster said:

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-05 14:14:56 +0100, Owain said:

Andy Hall wrote:
No. *Instruction* isn't required. *Learning* is.
Actually one can use the driving analogy to a limited extent.
The requirement, in order to drive on the public roads is to pass a
prescribed test. There is no requirement to go to a driving school
for instructor based training,

There is if you want to ride a motorbike.


Yes, but who would want to do that?

So you never have, presumably? Most fun you can have with your clothes
on, and all that...

David

I have to say that it's never appealed at all because of all of the
heavy clothing required to reduce the effect of falling off. Seems it
would be too cold in the winter and too hot in the summer

Modern bike clothing is much more comfortable, lighter and more
protective than the waxed cotton/tarpaulin of yesteryear :-)

--
Frank Erskine

On Sat, 5 May 2007 21:43:49 UTC, Andy Hall wrote:

The capitalist system, eh ?

'cept it isn't....

Your ideal system is clearly the Marie Antoinette system...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com