In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-05 21:03:06 +0100, Graeme said:

I have no idea how the system operates in your part of the world.

I thought that you were telling me that it's a "universal service". Why
would the procedures vary?

I don't remember using that phrase, and as to why the system should
vary, I'm afraid I have no idea. I'm not employed by Royal Mail, and
can only describe how things work in my own small corner of the world.

Prior to moving here, I lived in Hertford, and the last 'fee' parcel I
received there was delivered by Parcelforce. The driver gave me the
parcel, and I gave him a cheque for the import duty and clearance fee.

Here, packages requiring payment are delivered to me.
I write a grey card (similar to the red 'while you were out' card).
The postie delivers the card. The recipient then comes to my warm,
dry post office, pays cash or cheque, and leaves with the package.
Alternatively, the recipient gives cash or a cheque to the postie, and
he delivers the package. Simple.

It would be if they actually did it. They don't.

We do here.

In any case, why can't they simply deliver the goods and send an
invoice like the proper delivery firms do?

Complain to Royal Mail, formally. Seriously. Far too many people today
just don't bother to make a formal complaint about anything, so nothing
is done. I'm not suggesting that one complaint will change the world,
but I am suggesting that enough complaints will eventually make someone
listen.
--
Graeme

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-05 20:58:50 +0100, Graeme said:

I can have a more intelligent conversation with a post box than a
courier.

Do postboxes speak Scots Gaelic?

I don't know - I don't :-)

I'm an Englishman abroad.
--
Graeme

On 2007-05-06 07:46:12 +0100, Graeme said:

Complain to Royal Mail, formally. Seriously.

I would, happily, but to whom?


Far too many people today just don't bother to make a formal complaint
about anything, so nothing is done. I'm not suggesting that one
complaint will change the world, but I am suggesting that enough
complaints will eventually make someone listen.

I wouldn't have a problem doing that and do when buying any goods and
services that don't met expectations.

However, when I do so, I always consider a set of factors:

- Chances of getting the problem fixed for me now and in all cases in
the future

- Time that will be taken to pursue to achieve that

- Out of pocket costs to pursue

- Will somebody be held individually accountable and take action?

- Amount of money involved

- Remedies. i.e. can it pursued in court if necessary

- Is it public sector or equivalent?

- Do I have alternatives for the future?



When I score this exercise using those criteria, an encounter with RM
over their lack of service concerning international package delivery
scores pretty low. I can't see any factors on my list where I feel
any confidence of that. Nonetheless, I'll enter a complaint on
their web site and see what they do.

I looked at Postcomm, but that seems to be yet another toothless tiger
quango. For example, In cases where RM chooses not to deliver because
of some exception, an appeal to Postcomm can be made. However, there
is no requirement for Postcomm to respond in any particular time.

In article ,
Graeme wrote:
And I'll bet non will ever offer public post boxes. Similarly for
smaller parcels using the RM service rather than Parcel Post. To take
one to my local post office easy - not so to the nearest carrier's
depot. Also the nearest carrier to me only allows payment by cheque to
non account customers. They're really out to provide a service...;-)

The couriers are probably great if you happen to live in or near a large
city, but hopeless for those of us who prefer a more rural existence.

I'm saying they're not that great in London - for the individual. For
businesses where they collect bulk it's probably a different matter.

--
*Bills travel through the mail at twice the speed of cheques *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Ditto. I have received many hundreds of packages from USA, Canada,
Europe and Australia over the last, say, five years, ranging in value
from a few pounds to hundreds of pounds. The ONLY problems have been
with parcels carried by idiot couriers. Luckily, they are a very
small minority.

So please explain to me how to arrange that Royal Mail delivers a
package to me and invoices me for the import VAT afterwards.

If you can do that, please provide the details of their procedure and
how to ensure that my local office follows it.

IIRC, the problem here is with UPS.

--
*According to my calculations, the problem doesn't exist.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2007-05-06 09:30:46 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
Ditto. I have received many hundreds of packages from USA, Canada,
Europe and Australia over the last, say, five years, ranging in value
from a few pounds to hundreds of pounds. The ONLY problems have been
with parcels carried by idiot couriers. Luckily, they are a very
small minority.

So please explain to me how to arrange that Royal Mail delivers a
package to me and invoices me for the import VAT afterwards.

If you can do that, please provide the details of their procedure and
how to ensure that my local office follows it.

IIRC, the problem here is with UPS.

Part of it was with USPS (United States Postal Service) as opposed to
UPS, who are a professional courier firm.

The tracking system of USPS showed no information on the package for
some weeks. Eventually, nearly a month after delivery and two after
the original shipment, the product supplier was able to obtain a
tracking record from USPS. It did exist. That showed that for most
of the time, the package had been in the RM system. I have asked RM
about it and they have been unwilling to obtain more information.

I've entered details of RM's shortcomings in a complaint on their web
site and also provided a copy to Postcomm.

I am not holding my breath for a response.

Lobster wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-05 14:14:56 +0100, Owain


There is if you want to ride a motorbike.


Yes, but who would want to do that?

So you never have, presumably?
Most fun you can have with your clothes on,

No the second.
This is the first http://www.thundercity.com/sortie.htm


-

On 2007-05-08 00:46:57 +0100, "Mark" said:


Lobster wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:
On 2007-05-05 14:14:56 +0100, Owain


There is if you want to ride a motorbike.


Yes, but who would want to do that?

So you never have, presumably?
Most fun you can have with your clothes on,

No the second.
This is the first http://www.thundercity.com/sortie.htm


-

Have you been on it?

Is it a requirement to take a change of underwear?

Andy Hall wrote in message

On 2007-05-05 14:14:56 +0100, Owain


There is if you want to ride a motorbike.


Yes, but who would want to do that?

So you never have, presumably?
Most fun you can have with your clothes on,

No the second.
This is the first http://www.thundercity.com/sortie.htm



Have you been on it?

Yes in both the Hunter and the Lightning

Is it a requirement to take a change of underwear?

You do risk losing body fluids from both ends
and with the Lightning, your bank account also haemorrhages at about £10 a
second.
But it really is the most fun you can have with your clothes on.



-

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-06 07:46:12 +0100, Graeme said:

Complain to Royal Mail, formally. Seriously.

I would, happily, but to whom?

Problem. I don't know. Just had a look at the RM web site, and it is a
disaster. No address given. The only ways to contact RM are by
telephone or e-mail. The e-mail option requires a lot of personal
information. I'm not surprised - the only way RM will accept job
applications now is on-line. Even potential sub postmasters have to
apply to the PO on-line.

Getting back to an earlier subject, i.e. you standing in the rain having
paid 60p parking, you may like this little story.

A lady in my area received a letter from Parcelforce last Thursday,
advising her that an incoming international parcel had arrived at the
main depot, 50 miles away from here. The letter advised that duty of
about forty pounds was payable. Lady phones Parcelforce, pays fee by
debit card. Parcel arrives in my office around 06.30 Friday, and is
delivered to one happy customer later that morning. Cannot imagine why
your local crew cannot work in that manner.

Note, though, that the above is not always the case - sometimes the
parcel arrives in my office prior to duty/fee having been paid. Should
that be the case, I can only accept payment by cash or cheque, as the PO
system does not accept debit card payments for RM or Parcelforce.
However, there is no reason for the customer to come to the office - the
posties are perfectly happy to accept the payment, which they bring to
me. I sent the parcel out, with a receipt. Easy.

Finally, please don't think that I'm an apologist for any part of the RM
Group. I spend most of my working life banging my head against a brick
wall :-)
--
Graeme

On Sun, 13 May 2007 19:45:37 UTC, Graeme
wrote:

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-06 07:46:12 +0100, Graeme said:

Complain to Royal Mail, formally. Seriously.

I would, happily, but to whom?

Problem. I don't know. Just had a look at the RM web site, and it is a
disaster. No address given. The only ways to contact RM are by
telephone or e-mail. The e-mail option requires a lot of personal
information. I'm not surprised - the only way RM will accept job
applications now is on-line. Even potential sub postmasters have to
apply to the PO on-line.

There's always the registered office, as given on the web site. This is
the whole group, but still...

Royal Mail Group Ltd
148 Old Street
LONDON
EC1V 9HQ

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sun, 13 May 2007 19:45:37 UTC, Graeme
wrote:

Problem. I don't know. Just had a look at the RM web site, and it is a
disaster. No address given.

There's always the registered office, as given on the web site. This is
the whole group, but still...

Royal Mail Group Ltd
148 Old Street
LONDON
EC1V 9HQ

Yes, that would work, eventually. I have various RM booklets - I'll
look for a 'Customer Services' address tomorrow.
--
Graeme

On 2007-05-13 20:45:37 +0100, Graeme said:

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-06 07:46:12 +0100, Graeme said:

Complain to Royal Mail, formally. Seriously.

I would, happily, but to whom?

Problem. I don't know. Just had a look at the RM web site, and it is
a disaster. No address given. The only ways to contact RM are by
telephone or e-mail. The e-mail option requires a lot of personal
information. I'm not surprised - the only way RM will accept job
applications now is on-line. Even potential sub postmasters have to
apply to the PO on-line.

Getting back to an earlier subject, i.e. you standing in the rain
having paid 60p parking, you may like this little story.

A lady in my area received a letter from Parcelforce last Thursday,
advising her that an incoming international parcel had arrived at the
main depot, 50 miles away from here. The letter advised that duty of
about forty pounds was payable. Lady phones Parcelforce, pays fee by
debit card. Parcel arrives in my office around 06.30 Friday, and is
delivered to one happy customer later that morning. Cannot imagine why
your local crew cannot work in that manner.

Note, though, that the above is not always the case - sometimes the
parcel arrives in my office prior to duty/fee having been paid. Should
that be the case, I can only accept payment by cash or cheque, as the
PO system does not accept debit card payments for RM or Parcelforce.
However, there is no reason for the customer to come to the office -
the posties are perfectly happy to accept the payment, which they bring
to me. I sent the parcel out, with a receipt. Easy.

Finally, please don't think that I'm an apologist for any part of the
RM Group. I spend most of my working life banging my head against a
brick wall :-)

Needless to say, I have not received any further comment to my recent
complaint. I'll allow a few more days and then rope in the regulator.

On Fri, 04 May 2007 09:24:14 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
I think we already know the answer to that question. People in
outlying areas would pay the true economic cost of the service.

That attitude is far reaching. Do you expect to pay more for electricity
the further you are from the generator? Etc.

A country *has* to be run on the basis that essential services are
reasonably uniform throughout. Anything else would bring chaos. Of course
that doesn't stop big business trying to cherry pick the bits they want
purely for profit.

After, presumably they've paid the salaries, rent and business rates
and statutary insurances USW, USW, USW ...

You've already stated (in a different thread) you wouldn't work for an
employer (Like the NHS) who would charge you for car parking.

How is that not "Cherry Picking".

DG

On Fri, 04 May 2007 16:09:19 +0100, Frank Erskine
wrote:

On Fri, 4 May 2007 15:53:15 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-05-04 13:58:01 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
said:

In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
The question then is what counts as essential. Postal service doesn't
really fall into that category, especially when there are much more
viable alternatives. If mail is delivered electronically, it can be
read when the recipient is anywhere in the world - far more useful.

You're assuming everyone has a computer and or can use one. This simply
isn't so.

Then people are going to need to learn.

My mum's 93 years old. Should she be expected to learn how to use a
computer?


It is indeed a bit late now, but computers did not arrive in a delta
function with zero time.

Anyhow it may not be totally impossible, if the change happened all
through the community they could be expected to support each other.

Why, maybe a local village electronic post office could be set up to
print out the emails and local volunteers deliver them to the old and
feeble (Such as myself ).

They have managed to use motor cars and to get onto buses and into trains as opposed to
requiring horses and carts after all.

She was quite a bit younger when she mastered that!

The Post Office recently closed down in our village after 150 years.
We can't understand why with modern vehicles and postal sorting
machines we can't have what our forefathers had 150 years ago, but it
must have been the case that the post office was not doing enough
postal business to justify it's existence.

DG

In message , Graeme
writes
In message , Bob Eager
writes
On Sun, 13 May 2007 19:45:37 UTC, Graeme
wrote:

Problem. I don't know. Just had a look at the RM web site, and it is a
disaster. No address given.

There's always the registered office, as given on the web site. This is
the whole group, but still...

Royal Mail Group Ltd
148 Old Street
LONDON
EC1V 9HQ

Yes, that would work, eventually. I have various RM booklets - I'll
look for a 'Customer Services' address tomorrow.


Postcomm list addresses for complaints for all licensed postal
operators.

http://www.psc.gov.uk/postal-licence...-complain.html


For Royal Mail it gives:

Royal Mail Customer Services
FREEPOST
20 Turner Road
St Rollox Business & Retail Park
Glasgow
G21 1AA

Customer service tel: 08457 740 740 (Monday to Friday: 8am - 7:30pm,
Saturday: 8am - 2:30pm)
--
Chris French

On Fri, 4 May 2007 18:23:31 +0100, "The Medway Handyman"
wrote:

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Andy Hall wrote:
I think we already know the answer to that question. People in
outlying areas would pay the true economic cost of the service.

That attitude is far reaching. Do you expect to pay more for
electricity the further you are from the generator? Etc.

A country *has* to be run on the basis that essential services are
reasonably uniform throughout. Anything else would bring chaos. Of
course that doesn't stop big business trying to cherry pick the bits
they want purely for profit.

I've always wondered how come long distance telephone calls cost the
consumer more than local calls?

They don't, in this house they're all free.

The next step as soon as I'm confident the technology is reliable is
that all calls over (EU) Europe are free with a 2p connect charge.

And how come a letter sent from Lands End
to John O'Groats is the same price as sending one to the next street?

I suspect the answer is that the cost of the transport of bulk mail is
insignificant, like sugar snap peas from Kenya or asparagus from Peru.

The cost of postage is rather like the standard connect charge on the
VOIP phone system.

DG

On Sat, 05 May 2007 15:54:28 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On Fri, 4 May 2007 22:45:31 +0100 Andy Hall wrote :
Something that works like and on a tv?

Been done: I bought a box like this for my mum a good few years back: it
plugged into a phone socket and the TV and had a wireless keyboard so that
you could surf the web from your armchair. But the combination of dialup
and TV quality display made it a less than wonderful experience. It may
yet be reinvented with HD TV and broadband.

Hotels still keep on trying it, it's awfy slow and it's not pretty.

DG

In message , chris French
writes

Postcomm list addresses for complaints for all licensed postal
operators.

http://www.psc.gov.uk/postal-licence...-complain.html

For Royal Mail it gives:

Royal Mail Customer Services
FREEPOST
20 Turner Road
St Rollox Business & Retail Park
Glasgow
G21 1AA

Interesting. The Royal Mail booklet Mail Made Easy gives :

Royal Mail Customer Services
Freepost
PO Box 740
Plymouth
P19 7YB

Another RM booklet, Keeping Our Promise, shows the Glasgow address,
above.
--
Graeme

In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2007-05-13 20:45:37 +0100, Graeme said:

Complain to Royal Mail, formally. Seriously.

Needless to say, I have not received any further comment to my recent
complaint. I'll allow a few more days and then rope in the regulator.

Please do. I do not say that facetiously - the problem today is that
too many people do not bother to complain, with the result that nothing
changes. I'm not suggesting that one complaint will change the world,
but am suggesting that enough complaints will help.
--
Graeme