Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Made me think how convenient and energy efficient kettles would be if
they could keep the water in them near boiling for some time.

wrote:
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Made me think how convenient and energy efficient kettles would be if
they could keep the water in them near boiling for some time.


Worse still is the current fashion for stainless steel kettles - these
take ages to boil. A few years back we were given a stainless kettle and
toaster matching set. The performance of both was awful. We've gone back
to using nice plastic ones, which boil quickly.

--
Grunff

wrote:
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Made me think how convenient and energy efficient kettles would be if
they could keep the water in them near boiling for some time.

I've wondered about this as well. The insulation would probably need to
be something like http://www.ybsinsulation.com/superquilt.htm, a
combination of reflective layers kept separate by layers of foam to
prevent conduction of heat. If it were purely foam insulation it would
probably result in a kettle that is unfeasibly bulky.

Thinking along the lines if efficiency, the amount of energy needed to
boil water depends on the temperature differential between the starting
temperature and finishing temperature. Maybe keep several litres of
water on a sunny windowsill to warm up before using. Also, not all
beverages need boiling water. Monitoring the temperature of the water in
the kettle and then turning it off when the desired temperature has been
reached would be a good idea.

On 2007-04-25 09:11:29 +0100, Grunff said:

wrote:
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Made me think how convenient and energy efficient kettles would be if
they could keep the water in them near boiling for some time.


Worse still is the current fashion for stainless steel kettles - these
take ages to boil. A few years back we were given a stainless kettle
and toaster matching set. The performance of both was awful. We've gone
back to using nice plastic ones, which boil quickly.

But was that the material or the power rating? It seems a bit
surprising that stainless steel can radiate/convect *that* much heat to
make much of a difference with a 2-3kW heat source.

Andy Hall wrote:

But was that the material or the power rating? It seems a bit
surprising that stainless steel can radiate/convect *that* much heat to
make much of a difference with a 2-3kW heat source.

This puzzled me at the time. The stainless kettle was a Morphy Richards
3.1kW, which replaced a (much faster) 3kW Kenwood.

To start with I thought it might be thermal mass, but raising 300 grams
of stainless steel from 20C to 80C takes about 9kJ, which the element
can do in 3 seconds, so that's not the issue. I therefore assumed that
it must be convective losses from the surface.


--
Grunff

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:21:47 +0100, Rob Horton
wrote:

wrote:
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Made me think how convenient and energy efficient kettles would be if
they could keep the water in them near boiling for some time.

I've wondered about this as well. The insulation would probably need to
be something like http://www.ybsinsulation.com/superquilt.htm, a
combination of reflective layers kept separate by layers of foam to
prevent conduction of heat. If it were purely foam insulation it would
probably result in a kettle that is unfeasibly bulky.

Thinking along the lines if efficiency, the amount of energy needed to
boil water depends on the temperature differential between the starting
temperature and finishing temperature. Maybe keep several litres of
water on a sunny windowsill to warm up before using. Also, not all
beverages need boiling water. Monitoring the temperature of the water in
the kettle and then turning it off when the desired temperature has been
reached would be a good idea.

My kettle has several settings. One for tea, coffee and one for
lukewarm drinks which is supposedly the right temperature for adding
to yeast for bread.
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk

"Rob Horton" wrote in message
...

Thinking along the lines if efficiency, the amount of energy needed to
boil water depends on the temperature differential between the starting
temperature and finishing temperature. Maybe keep several litres of water
on a sunny windowsill to warm up before using. Also, not all beverages
need boiling water. Monitoring the temperature of the water in the kettle
and then turning it off when the desired temperature has been reached
would be a good idea.

Lidl did a nice plastic 3kw kettle with an additional stat for hot water
rather than boiling for £9.99.
It works OK but you have to remember to switch it off if you are using the
stat or it will keep it hot until you do.

On 2007-04-25 09:33:53 +0100, Grunff said:

Andy Hall wrote:

But was that the material or the power rating? It seems a bit
surprising that stainless steel can radiate/convect *that* much heat to
make much of a difference with a 2-3kW heat source.

This puzzled me at the time. The stainless kettle was a Morphy Richards
3.1kW, which replaced a (much faster) 3kW Kenwood.

To start with I thought it might be thermal mass, but raising 300 grams
of stainless steel from 20C to 80C takes about 9kJ, which the element
can do in 3 seconds, so that's not the issue. I therefore assumed that
it must be convective losses from the surface.

I wonder if one could work out the convection and radiation losses for both.

The energy equation is pretty simple. We know that there is not an
issue of the heat being transferred into the water since it has nowhere
else to go. Therefore if one takes a given amount of water in both
cases and heats it from temperature T to 100 then the energy used in
the time difference would account for the difference in loss.

It's not possible that there was less water in the plastic kettle?
These tend to be jugs whereas the metal ones are usually more
traditional kettle shaped. Hmm.... thinks difference in surface
area of short squat cylinder vs. tall one?

As for the toaster, I think it's harder to work out. Here the heat
transferred to the bread would depend on what's behind the element
(insulation and reflection of some kind?) and proximity of element to
bread.

Andy Hall wrote:

The energy equation is pretty simple. We know that there is not an
issue of the heat being transferred into the water since it has nowhere
else to go. Therefore if one takes a given amount of water in both
cases and heats it from temperature T to 100 then the energy used in the
time difference would account for the difference in loss.

I guess one possibility is that the stainless was lying about the power
rating...


It's not possible that there was less water in the plastic kettle?
These tend to be jugs whereas the metal ones are usually more
traditional kettle shaped. Hmm.... thinks difference in surface area
of short squat cylinder vs. tall one?

No, it was a jug one, a little like this (but without the windows)
http://www.comet.co.uk/cometbrowse/p....do?sku=272825


As for the toaster, I think it's harder to work out. Here the heat
transferred to the bread would depend on what's behind the element
(insulation and reflection of some kind?) and proximity of element to
bread.

The toaster was bad for different reasons - it seemed incapable to
irradiating the bread evenly, so you always ended up with some burnt
bits and some untoasted bits. I think that was just poor design, and not
related to the casing material.


--
Grunff

On 2007-04-25 11:03:44 +0100, Grunff said:

Andy Hall wrote:

The energy equation is pretty simple. We know that there is not an
issue of the heat being transferred into the water since it has nowhere
else to go. Therefore if one takes a given amount of water in both
cases and heats it from temperature T to 100 then the energy used in
the time difference would account for the difference in loss.

I guess one possibility is that the stainless was lying about the power
rating...


It's not possible that there was less water in the plastic kettle?
These tend to be jugs whereas the metal ones are usually more
traditional kettle shaped. Hmm.... thinks difference in surface
area of short squat cylinder vs. tall one?

No, it was a jug one, a little like this (but without the windows)
http://www.comet.co.uk/cometbrowse/p....do?sku=272825


Always a possibility.



As for the toaster, I think it's harder to work out. Here the heat
transferred to the bread would depend on what's behind the element
(insulation and reflection of some kind?) and proximity of element to
bread.

The toaster was bad for different reasons - it seemed incapable to
irradiating the bread evenly, so you always ended up with some burnt
bits and some untoasted bits. I think that was just poor design, and
not related to the casing material.

It really shouldn't be hard to get that right....

wrote in message
oups.com...
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?


Okay I'll start the ball rolling

Tefal Elegance 3000W stainless jug
500ml water, start temp 16.5°C
79.8 secs to auto stop

Okay so they shut off at different temps, but this is probably more
pertinent since I expect most people wait for it to shut off and certainly
don't use a thermometer.

--
Mike W

In article .com,
" writes:
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Made me think how convenient and energy efficient kettles would be if
they could keep the water in them near boiling for some time.

I have a Siemens kettle which is perhaps 6 years old, and is
insulated. Outside is brushed stainless steel, inside is plastic
except for the flat bottomed element. One issue with an insulated
kettle is you can't quickly tell if it's already boiled, or if
you forgot to switch it on in the first place.

It was designed by Porsche -- he might be able to design cars,
but as with many designers, he completely failed to design a
spout which can pour properly. Otherwise, it works fine.

We have a kettle at work which has a "keep hot" switch on it,
which maintains the temperature just below boiling when the
boil switch is off. It's a large industrial thing though,
with a hopelessly underpowered element for its size.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

They could always combine the stainless kettle with a stainless thermos
flask. How the latter manage to keep things warm so effectively is a
mystery
to me!

On the kettle theme, having just used around a pound of citric acid to get
all the clinker out of our stainless kettle (which boils v quickly -
Phillips), I wonder about those little bundles of wire I used to see in old
ladies kettles, that somehow stop the furring up: how do they work, and what
are they made of? (This is a bigger problem than it used to be, since we
started taking note of the water levels in order not to waste energy: the
result is a thick ring of clinker at the 'two cups' level! The clinker also
blocks up the level tube entrance which foolishly happens to be at about the
same level!)

S


"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
" writes:
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Made me think how convenient and energy efficient kettles would be if
they could keep the water in them near boiling for some time.

I have a Siemens kettle which is perhaps 6 years old, and is
insulated. Outside is brushed stainless steel, inside is plastic
except for the flat bottomed element. One issue with an insulated
kettle is you can't quickly tell if it's already boiled, or if
you forgot to switch it on in the first place.

It was designed by Porsche -- he might be able to design cars,
but as with many designers, he completely failed to design a
spout which can pour properly. Otherwise, it works fine.

We have a kettle at work which has a "keep hot" switch on it,
which maintains the temperature just below boiling when the
boil switch is off. It's a large industrial thing though,
with a hopelessly underpowered element for its size.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

wrote in message
oups.com...
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Made me think how convenient and energy efficient kettles would be if
they could keep the water in them near boiling for some time.

Forget the insulation. An energy efficient kettle is the one that is
controlled properly by the user. This requires only boiling the required
amount of water that is needed and not over filling. For the very few times
you are interupted in making a cup of tea the heat loss is irrelevant.

Adam

wrote in message
oups.com...
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Oh, how AWFUL!

I can't think of anything worse ...

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 19:58:06 UTC, "ARWadsworth"
wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Made me think how convenient and energy efficient kettles would be if
they could keep the water in them near boiling for some time.

Forget the insulation. An energy efficient kettle is the one that is
controlled properly by the user. This requires only boiling the required
amount of water that is needed and not over filling. For the very few times
you are interupted in making a cup of tea the heat loss is irrelevant.

Remember to add the milk immediately after the hot water, to slow the
subsequent heat loss...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"Grunff" wrote in message
...



The toaster was bad for different reasons - it seemed incapable to
irradiating the bread evenly, so you always ended up with some burnt bits
and some untoasted bits. I think that was just poor design, and not
related to the casing material.

Not necessarily, in our case it depends on the bread. I make ours and if I
use a lean dough the crusts and towards them brown more quickly than the
rest. If I make a rich dough it toasts far more evenly.

Exactly the same happens if I toast under the grill.

Mary


--
Grunff

In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Worse still is the current fashion for stainless steel kettles - these
take ages to boil. A few years back we were given a stainless kettle and
toaster matching set. The performance of both was awful. We've gone back
to using nice plastic ones, which boil quickly.

Leaving aside the fact I don't like boiled toast I'll warrant both your
plastic toaster and kettle will fall apart long before stainless steel
ones. Plastics simply don't like heat long term.

--
*A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Worse still is the current fashion for stainless steel kettles - these
take ages to boil. A few years back we were given a stainless kettle and
toaster matching set. The performance of both was awful. We've gone back
to using nice plastic ones, which boil quickly.

Leaving aside the fact I don't like boiled toast I'll warrant both your
plastic toaster and kettle will fall apart long before stainless steel
ones. Plastics simply don't like heat long term.

The lid fell off my stainless steel one.. the plastic hinges broke.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:46:20 GMT, spamlet wrote:

They could always combine the stainless kettle with a stainless thermos
flask. How the latter manage to keep things warm so effectively is a
mystery
to me!

On the kettle theme, having just used around a pound of citric acid to
get
all the clinker out of our stainless kettle (which boils v quickly -
Phillips), I wonder about those little bundles of wire I used to see in
old
ladies kettles, that somehow stop the furring up: how do they work, and
what
are they made of? (This is a bigger problem than it used to be, since
we
started taking note of the water levels in order not to waste energy:
the
result is a thick ring of clinker at the 'two cups' level! The clinker
also
blocks up the level tube entrance which foolishly happens to be at about
the
same level!)

S


"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
" writes:
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a
bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Made me think how convenient and energy efficient kettles would be if
they could keep the water in them near boiling for some time.

I have a Siemens kettle which is perhaps 6 years old, and is
insulated. Outside is brushed stainless steel, inside is plastic
except for the flat bottomed element. One issue with an insulated
kettle is you can't quickly tell if it's already boiled, or if
you forgot to switch it on in the first place.

It was designed by Porsche -- he might be able to design cars,
but as with many designers, he completely failed to design a
spout which can pour properly. Otherwise, it works fine.

We have a kettle at work which has a "keep hot" switch on it,
which maintains the temperature just below boiling when the
boil switch is off. It's a large industrial thing though,
with a hopelessly underpowered element for its size.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]




--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 14:46:20 GMT, spamlet wrote:

I wonder about those little bundles of wire I used to see in old
ladies kettles, that somehow stop the furring up: how do they work,

Increase the surface area available for scale deposition thus less gets
deposited on the kettle.

and what are they made of?

Stainless steel wire.

We have a kettle at work which has a "keep hot" switch on it,

Our domestic kettle has that feature. We tend to use it to get hot water
for coffee or ho****er bottles. It doesn't get to quite a full boil so
isn't used for tea so it may save a little energy. Trouble is it is and on
or off feature it's not a one shot. So unless you remember to turn it off,
the kettle will sit there turning itself on for about 30" every few
minutes. A 3kW I suspect that will soon add up to canceling any saving
from not heating the water to a full boil and add to the power bill. I've
been wondering if it can be made one shot...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:53:19 +0100, mogga wrote:

My kettle has several settings. One for tea, coffee and one for
lukewarm drinks which is supposedly the right temperature for adding
to yeast for bread.

Automagically or manually? Make and model of an automagic one please.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Worse still is the current fashion for stainless steel kettles - these
take ages to boil. A few years back we were given a stainless kettle and
toaster matching set. The performance of both was awful. We've gone back
to using nice plastic ones, which boil quickly.

Leaving aside the fact I don't like boiled toast I'll warrant both your
plastic toaster and kettle will fall apart long before stainless steel
ones. Plastics simply don't like heat long term.

Maybe so, but every plastic kettle I've had fail has been because of the
element, and it's cheaper to buy a new kettle than mess around replacing
the element

--
geoff

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:49:41 GMT, raden mused:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Worse still is the current fashion for stainless steel kettles - these
take ages to boil. A few years back we were given a stainless kettle and
toaster matching set. The performance of both was awful. We've gone back
to using nice plastic ones, which boil quickly.

Leaving aside the fact I don't like boiled toast I'll warrant both your
plastic toaster and kettle will fall apart long before stainless steel
ones. Plastics simply don't like heat long term.

Maybe so, but every plastic kettle I've had fail has been because of the
element, and it's cheaper to buy a new kettle than mess around replacing
the element

Hmm, every plastic kettle I've had has been retired because it's
started leaking.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

I've wondered about this as well. The insulation would probably need to
be something likehttp://www.ybsinsulation.com/superquilt.htm, a
combination of reflective layers kept separate by layers of foam to
prevent conduction of heat. If it were purely foam insulation it would
probably result in a kettle that is unfeasibly bulky.

The kettle could just be double skinned (+vacuum) like a thermos.

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Worse still is the current fashion for stainless steel kettles - these
take ages to boil. A few years back we were given a stainless kettle and
toaster matching set. The performance of both was awful. We've gone back
to using nice plastic ones, which boil quickly.

Leaving aside the fact I don't like boiled toast I'll warrant both your
plastic toaster and kettle will fall apart long before stainless steel
ones. Plastics simply don't like heat long term.

What's actually happened, as with so many other appliances, is
that kettles have changed from being capital purchases into
consumables. Manufacturers have cleverly changed peoples'
expectations, and kettles, like light bulbs, are no longer
expected to last for years. This gives the manufacturers a
higher and more predicably stable revenue stream. As geoff
said, he chucks his when the element dies, which is a bit
like chucking out your desklamp every time the light bulb dies.
This is also down to consumers not being prepared to pay for
long life in appliances anymore, so such products vanish from
the marketplace. Strangely, they'll pay for designs which look
to be long life, e.g. those with stainless steel styling, but
most of these are still basically plastic under the skin.

I still have a 30 year old Russell Hobbs stainless steel
kettle which just predates the conversion into consumables.
I can't see any reason why it won't carry on going another
30 years. A couple of years ago, it spent a while being
used as a builders kettle, and got very mucky. I decided
to take it apart to thoroughly clean all the plaster etc
from it, and it came up like knew.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

On 2007-04-26 07:55:26 +0100, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) said:

In article ,
"Dave Plowman (News)" writes:
In article ,
Grunff wrote:
Worse still is the current fashion for stainless steel kettles - these
take ages to boil. A few years back we were given a stainless kettle and
toaster matching set. The performance of both was awful. We've gone back
to using nice plastic ones, which boil quickly.

Leaving aside the fact I don't like boiled toast I'll warrant both your
plastic toaster and kettle will fall apart long before stainless steel
ones. Plastics simply don't like heat long term.

What's actually happened, as with so many other appliances, is
that kettles have changed from being capital purchases into
consumables. Manufacturers have cleverly changed peoples'
expectations, and kettles, like light bulbs, are no longer
expected to last for years. This gives the manufacturers a
higher and more predicably stable revenue stream. As geoff
said, he chucks his when the element dies, which is a bit
like chucking out your desklamp every time the light bulb dies.
This is also down to consumers not being prepared to pay for
long life in appliances anymore, so such products vanish from
the marketplace.

It seems to me to be more like manufacturers being able to supply cheap
goods from China, but which require a volume to do so. The revenue
stream tempts them as well of course and the ability to undercut on
price. The gullible public then proceeds to buy on price. I don't
think that most people think of it in terms of not being prepared to
pay for long life, but rather that they are stupid enough to believe
that they are getting something of quality and longevity but at a low
price. Then when it does eventually break, they don't feel *that*
screwed.


Strangely, they'll pay for designs which look
to be long life, e.g. those with stainless steel styling, but
most of these are still basically plastic under the skin.

That's why I don't think it's strange. Inherently I think that people
have become unable to discern quality and just look superficially and
at price.





I still have a 30 year old Russell Hobbs stainless steel
kettle which just predates the conversion into consumables.
I can't see any reason why it won't carry on going another
30 years. A couple of years ago, it spent a while being
used as a builders kettle, and got very mucky. I decided
to take it apart to thoroughly clean all the plaster etc
from it, and it came up like knew.

This is the kind that they made for years with the red push switch on
the black handle?

An excellent product indeed. I've still got one..

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 23:48:41 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 09:53:19 +0100, mogga wrote:

My kettle has several settings. One for tea, coffee and one for
lukewarm drinks which is supposedly the right temperature for adding
to yeast for bread.

Automagically or manually? Make and model of an automagic one please.

auto

tefal vitesses
*but* I just looked on comet and they don't have it anymore - and
amazon says its been discontinued.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tefal-White-.../dp/B0009WWCJ6

It is really nice to be able to make a cup of coffee you can sip
straight away.
It wasn't cheap but I got it as a pressie

--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:47:22 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-04-26 07:55:26 +0100, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) said:


I still have a 30 year old Russell Hobbs stainless steel
kettle which just predates the conversion into consumables.
I can't see any reason why it won't carry on going another
30 years. A couple of years ago, it spent a while being
used as a builders kettle, and got very mucky. I decided
to take it apart to thoroughly clean all the plaster etc
from it, and it came up like knew.

This is the kind that they made for years with the red push switch on
the black handle?

An excellent product indeed. I've still got one..

Like this:-

http://www.danny.mcnulty.btinternet.co.uk/k2.html


--
Frank Erskine

On 2007-04-26 10:03:31 +0100, Frank Erskine
said:

On Thu, 26 Apr 2007 08:47:22 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On 2007-04-26 07:55:26 +0100, andrew@a17 (Andrew Gabriel) said:


I still have a 30 year old Russell Hobbs stainless steel
kettle which just predates the conversion into consumables.
I can't see any reason why it won't carry on going another
30 years. A couple of years ago, it spent a while being
used as a builders kettle, and got very mucky. I decided
to take it apart to thoroughly clean all the plaster etc
from it, and it came up like knew.

This is the kind that they made for years with the red push switch on
the black handle?

An excellent product indeed. I've still got one..

Like this:-

http://www.danny.mcnulty.btinternet.co.uk/k2.html

Yes, the top one.

In article ,
Andy Hall writes:
Like this:-

http://www.danny.mcnulty.btinternet.co.uk/k2.html

Yes, the top one.

Same here.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel wrote:
In article ,
Andy Hall writes:
Like this:-

http://www.danny.mcnulty.btinternet.co.uk/k2.html

Yes, the top one.

Same here.

And me until recently. Only reason I changed it was to get a 'cordless'
type which makes filling less of a fiddle.

I don't understand the fashion for jug types. They are less stable and
more difficult to handle when full. Nor do they actually help when only a
small amount of water is needed - my 'conventional' design one is
perfectly happy with only one cupful of water, as it uses a 'flat' element.

--
*Geeks shall inherit the earth *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 26 Apr 2007 06:55:26 GMT Andrew Gabriel wrote :
What's actually happened, as with so many other appliances, is
that kettles have changed from being capital purchases into
consumables. Manufacturers have cleverly changed peoples'
expectations, and kettles, like light bulbs, are no longer
expected to last for years.

People's expectations have also changed because they (largely) are
money rich and time poor, so taking something to a shop to get it
fixed (if you could find such a shop these days) is a far less
attractive proposition than just buying a new one.

Back when I was a kid (c.1960) the corner shop sold mending kits for
kettles, two washers and a nut and bolt. It would be interesting to
know what a Russell Hobbs kettle cost then - a day's wages? - whilst
you can now buy a kettle for what you earn in an hour.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

In article ,
wrote:
I've got a brushed stainles steel version, but I burned out the elephant
last year (no water in it).

It *should* have ejected the plug via a mechanical overheat thermostat.
Makes quite a noise when this happens. ;-)

It was easier to replace with a cheap jug kettle. I think TLC do
replacement elements, I must remember to put it on next time I order
from them.

7.50 quid - but marked as clearance stock so don't leave it too late.

--
*To err is human. To forgive is against company policy.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ooh that Russel Hobbs made me feel all nostalgic.

Okay I'll start the ball rolling

Tefal Elegance 3000W stainless jug
500ml water, start temp 16.5°C
79.8 secs to auto stop

Morphy Richards 3.1kW, also a stainless steel jug.

75.9 seconds from 18 degrees. I think you win.

As an aside, while we're talking about watts and the like, I saw a
newspaper report yesterday about a solar power station near Madrid.
The capacity was quoted in 'megawatt hours per year'! I despair that
my electricity usage is quoted in kWh, rather than joules, but really.
MWh/year. They'll be clocking my speed in mile per hour weeks per
month next...

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:02:52 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Oh, how AWFUL!

I can't think of anything worse ...


Not having boiled the kettle at all...
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk

Andy Hall wrote:
That's why I don't think it's strange. Inherently I think that people
have become unable to discern quality and just look superficially and at
price.

Many items are now so complex, a sound technical evaluation is beyond
many peoples ability and education. Brand name are recognised how ever
devalued, packaging and style signify, a long list of features and
bigger numbers (don't know what they mean, but more must be better),
smaller numbers (smaller, cheaper)... Anything more complex and it is
very hard to even find the information, even less so in a form that
hasn't been garbled by the marketing dept. For a time the internet
improved things as service manuals became available online, but now web
sites have been taken over by marketing.



This is the kind that they made for years with the red push switch on
the black handle?

An excellent product indeed. I've still got one..

I remewmber my granparents having one. Grandfather always keen on the
latest gadgets, like an electric kettle that switched itself off.

--
djc

"mogga" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 21:02:52 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


wrote in message
groups.com...
Why aren't kettles highly insulated?

I was distracted by the phone this morning and kettle had cooled a bit
before I poured my cuppa.

Oh, how AWFUL!

I can't think of anything worse ...


Not having boiled the kettle at all...

Yes, I suppose so!

On the other hand, that would probably make tea as I like it - one scant
teaspoon of leaves in a litre of water - strained. No milk or sugar and it's
good even when cold :-)

Mary
--
http://www.freedeliveryuk.co.uk

In article ,
Andrew Gabriel andrew@a17 wrote:

What's actually happened, as with so many other appliances, is
that kettles have changed from being capital purchases into
consumables. Manufacturers have cleverly changed peoples'
expectations, and kettles, like light bulbs, are no longer
expected to last for years. This gives the manufacturers a
higher and more predicably stable revenue stream. As geoff
said, he chucks his when the element dies, which is a bit
like chucking out your desklamp every time the light bulb dies.
[snip]

Hmph.... Have a look at the purchase price of a nightlight,
(which comes with a spare bulb), versus the cost of buying
a replacement 7W bulb.... assuming a 7W can be found.

I now just strip all the photocell gubbins out, and feed
the bulb from a 1N4007 diode. This enormously extends the
bulb life and allows a higher wattage bulb in there, if
neccessary.

I still have a 30 year old Russell Hobbs stainless steel
kettle which just predates the conversion into consumables.
I can't see any reason why it won't carry on going another
30 years. A couple of years ago, it spent a while being
used as a builders kettle, and got very mucky. I decided
to take it apart to thoroughly clean all the plaster etc
from it, and it came up like knew.

Yes, I have a stainless Russell Hobbs here in the workshop,
and a spare switch and element, just in case. The big
weakness of this kettle is that the spout is soldered on,
with no extra mechanical assistance. We had a girl in the
factory who would insist on filling it via the spout.
That little 'clink' against the tap, several times a day,
would regularly crack the joint, starting a leak. It is
definitely not an easy joint to remake.

--
Tony Williams.

In article ,
Tony Williams writes:
Hmph.... Have a look at the purchase price of a nightlight,
(which comes with a spare bulb), versus the cost of buying
a replacement 7W bulb.... assuming a 7W can be found.

I now just strip all the photocell gubbins out, and feed
the bulb from a 1N4007 diode. This enormously extends the
bulb life and allows a higher wattage bulb in there, if
neccessary.

Well, a filament lamp of that power and voltage is just nuts.
Look for a tiny fluorescent one instead, such as this 3W one
which was a couple of quid IIRC from homebase...

http://zelandeth.artamir.org/lamps/t...nl15/index.htm

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]