Hi,

I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of a
hash of it. The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.

I'm getting an electrician to sort it, but want to get an idea of what
to tell him and what to expect. Is the following correct:

I can join the cables in a junction box
This junction box can be recessed into the wall and plastered over AS
LONG AS the cables are soldered or crimped together
If they are only screwed into terminals, they must be accessible

How big a job would it be for someone to chisel out space for a
junction box and make the above joint, then presumably test the ring
for continuity etc. Ring mains seem deadly - they still work if they
are split, but you're fuse is twice what it should be. I wouldn't know
anything was wrong unless I'd happened to notice an unusual wire...

Cheers,

Ben

It happens that Ben formulated :
Hi,

I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of a
hash of it. The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.

It doesn't just need special connectors, it needs a specialised method
to terminate the cable itself. The insulation absorbs moisture from the
air, so it needs to be sealed up air tight with a proper termination.

Modern metric ones are difficult to get hold of, but imperial ones
might be impossible. Also you need to make sure the electrician is
familiar with terminating Pyro' - that is the old name for the type of
cable BTW.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 17 Apr, 20:12, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
It happens that Ben formulated :

Hi,
I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of a
hash of it. The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.

It doesn't just need special connectors, it needs a specialised method
to terminate the cable itself. The insulation absorbs moisture from the
air, so it needs to be sealed up air tight with a proper termination.

Modern metric ones are difficult to get hold of, but imperial ones
might be impossible. Also you need to make sure the electrician is
familiar with terminating Pyro' - that is the old name for the type of
cable BTW.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Ah -ok. This could be bad... The wire will have been open to the
atmosphere for a few days by the time it gets sealed - if I can find
the stuff. If I can't, I'm a bit stuffed. I currently have a radial
rather than a ring, with a live bit of Pyro poking through the wall...

I haven't got any callipers, but the external diameter seems to be
5.5mm or 7/32". Do either of those sound like standard sizes (they
don't sound it...)
Ooo err. This is not good. I WISH he hadn't cut the cable!

Cheers,

Ben

On 17 Apr, 20:43, Ben wrote:
On 17 Apr, 20:12, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:



It happens that Ben formulated :

Hi,
I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of a
hash of it. The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.

It doesn't just need special connectors, it needs a specialised method
to terminate the cable itself. The insulation absorbs moisture from the
air, so it needs to be sealed up air tight with a proper termination.

Modern metric ones are difficult to get hold of, but imperial ones
might be impossible. Also you need to make sure the electrician is
familiar with terminating Pyro' - that is the old name for the type of
cable BTW.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Ah -ok. This could be bad... The wire will have been open to the
atmosphere for a few days by the time it gets sealed - if I can find
the stuff. If I can't, I'm a bit stuffed. I currently have a radial
rather than a ring, with a live bit of Pyro poking through the wall...

I haven't got any callipers, but the external diameter seems to be
5.5mm or 7/32". Do either of those sound like standard sizes (they
don't sound it...)
Ooo err. This is not good. I WISH he hadn't cut the cable!

Cheers,

Ben

I have a section of the cut cable in front of me. What dimensions
other than OD are used to identify it - it is 2 core, conductors look
about 1mm...

"Ben" wrote in message
oups.com...
On 17 Apr, 20:43, Ben wrote:
On 17 Apr, 20:12, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:



It happens that Ben formulated :

Hi,
I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of
a
hash of it. The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.

It doesn't just need special connectors, it needs a specialised method
to terminate the cable itself. The insulation absorbs moisture from the
air, so it needs to be sealed up air tight with a proper termination.

Modern metric ones are difficult to get hold of, but imperial ones
might be impossible. Also you need to make sure the electrician is
familiar with terminating Pyro' - that is the old name for the type of
cable BTW.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Ah -ok. This could be bad... The wire will have been open to the
atmosphere for a few days by the time it gets sealed - if I can find
the stuff. If I can't, I'm a bit stuffed. I currently have a radial
rather than a ring, with a live bit of Pyro poking through the wall...

I haven't got any callipers, but the external diameter seems to be
5.5mm or 7/32". Do either of those sound like standard sizes (they
don't sound it...)
Ooo err. This is not good. I WISH he hadn't cut the cable!

Cheers,

Ben

I have a section of the cut cable in front of me. What dimensions
other than OD are used to identify it - it is 2 core, conductors look
about 1mm...


It is probably imperial equiv of 2L1.5 pyro. Good luck finding someone who
can and has the tools to work on it. We do and are based in Portsmouth if
that helps.

--
Regards

Stephen Dawson
Fox Electrical Services Ltd

On 17 Apr 2007 12:58:05 -0700, Ben mused:

On 17 Apr, 20:43, Ben wrote:
On 17 Apr, 20:12, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:



It happens that Ben formulated :

Hi,
I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of a
hash of it. The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.

It doesn't just need special connectors, it needs a specialised method
to terminate the cable itself. The insulation absorbs moisture from the
air, so it needs to be sealed up air tight with a proper termination.

Modern metric ones are difficult to get hold of, but imperial ones
might be impossible. Also you need to make sure the electrician is
familiar with terminating Pyro' - that is the old name for the type of
cable BTW.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Ah -ok. This could be bad... The wire will have been open to the
atmosphere for a few days by the time it gets sealed - if I can find
the stuff. If I can't, I'm a bit stuffed. I currently have a radial
rather than a ring, with a live bit of Pyro poking through the wall...

Turn it off, turn it off now. Don't stop to anything on the way, just
turn it off.

I haven't got any callipers, but the external diameter seems to be
5.5mm or 7/32". Do either of those sound like standard sizes (they
don't sound it...)
Ooo err. This is not good. I WISH he hadn't cut the cable!

Cheers,

Ben

I have a section of the cut cable in front of me. What dimensions
other than OD are used to identify it - it is 2 core, conductors look
about 1mm...

Depends, the OD varies amongst old and new and also throught the
different grades and imperfections.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

On 17 Apr, 21:30, Lurch wrote:
On 17 Apr 2007 12:58:05 -0700, Ben mused:



On 17 Apr, 20:43, Ben wrote:
On 17 Apr, 20:12, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:

It happens that Ben formulated :

Hi,
I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of a
hash of it. The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.

It doesn't just need special connectors, it needs a specialised method
to terminate the cable itself. The insulation absorbs moisture from the
air, so it needs to be sealed up air tight with a proper termination.

Modern metric ones are difficult to get hold of, but imperial ones
might be impossible. Also you need to make sure the electrician is
familiar with terminating Pyro' - that is the old name for the type of
cable BTW.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Ah -ok. This could be bad... The wire will have been open to the
atmosphere for a few days by the time it gets sealed - if I can find
the stuff. If I can't, I'm a bit stuffed. I currently have a radial
rather than a ring, with a live bit of Pyro poking through the wall...

Turn it off, turn it off now. Don't stop to anything on the way, just
turn it off.

I haven't got any callipers, but the external diameter seems to be
5.5mm or 7/32". Do either of those sound like standard sizes (they
don't sound it...)
Ooo err. This is not good. I WISH he hadn't cut the cable!

Cheers,

Ben

I have a section of the cut cable in front of me. What dimensions
other than OD are used to identify it - it is 2 core, conductors look
about 1mm...

Depends, the OD varies amongst old and new and also throught the
different grades and imperfections.
--
Regards,
Stuart.

After a bit of detective work with the meter I have managed to isolate
the exposed piece of cable so it is no longer live or in danger of
shorting out. I have to watch the loading on the now radial circuits,
since they are still fused as a ring, but someone is coming to look
at it soon and will give their expert opinion. I'm certainly not using
more than 20A at the moment anyway.

Cheers,

Ben

Ben pretended :
On 17 Apr, 20:12, Harry Bloomfield
wrote:
It happens that Ben formulated :

Hi,
I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of a
hash of it. The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.

It doesn't just need special connectors, it needs a specialised method
to terminate the cable itself. The insulation absorbs moisture from the
air, so it needs to be sealed up air tight with a proper termination.

Modern metric ones are difficult to get hold of, but imperial ones
might be impossible. Also you need to make sure the electrician is
familiar with terminating Pyro' - that is the old name for the type of
cable BTW.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Ah -ok. This could be bad... The wire will have been open to the
atmosphere for a few days by the time it gets sealed - if I can find
the stuff. If I can't, I'm a bit stuffed. I currently have a radial
rather than a ring, with a live bit of Pyro poking through the wall...

I haven't got any callipers, but the external diameter seems to be
5.5mm or 7/32". Do either of those sound like standard sizes (they
don't sound it...)
Ooo err. This is not good. I WISH he hadn't cut the cable!

Cheers,

Ben

Look at the brass cable gland or seal, on both should be stamped a
number which you will be able to quote to an electrical wholesaler.
From memory the old imperial sizes had a number based on the diameter
in thousands of an inch. The metric ones used a number based on the
number and size of the cores.

All is not lost, even if moisture has got in. It penetrates quite
slowly, perhaps a fraction of an inch per day. The fix is to heat up
the Pyro to a dull red heat, at a point beyond the damp and gradually
move the heated point towards the open end - this drives the moisture
out. Obviously if you don't start far enough back, or move to fast, it
will make the problem even worse.

Once dried out, the end can be sealed temporarily with a blob of the
sealing compound, as used it the seal or 'pot'.

To make the end off, you will need 2x glands, 2x pots, 2x plastic ends
to suit the number of cores, sealing compound - then the special tools.
Crimper, ringer and a stripper.

TBH, what with all the faffing about and cost, it might be
cheaper/quicker to simply replace the cable with new. FP cable does
much of what the Pyro cables were once used for and you don't need any
special tools or skills to be able to use it.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

Ben submitted this idea :
I have a section of the cut cable in front of me. What dimensions
other than OD are used to identify it - it is 2 core, conductors look
about 1mm...

For a ring, I think it should be 1.5mm if metric. Could you perhaps
compare the size directly against a known cable?

Even then it still leaves you guessing about imperial or metric as they
were so close in Pyro. If it is of any help I have the tools you need
for the job here in W. Yorks and the nack of making the ends off, but
not the materials needed.

Check the plastic sleeving, they sometimes stamp the core size it fits
on that.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

In article . com,
Ben wrote:
I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of a
hash of it. The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.

I'm getting an electrician to sort it, but want to get an idea of what
to tell him and what to expect.

Do you know when the 'pyro' was installed? It doesn't need special
connectors as such but has to be properly terminated. This involves
fitting a special seal to the end. If you look inside a socket etc you'll
see what I mean.

If it's old imperial stuff - roughly pre '70 or so - I dunno where you'll
find a termination kit. And even the modern stuff might be tricky,
depending on your location. Few wholesalers stock MICC these days.
For reference if it's the current metric cable it will almost certainly be
2L1.5 for a final ring circuit.

And you may have a problem finding an electrician who can work this stuff
- it's not much used these days, and ideally needs special tools to make
the termination.

I do have a small stock of terminations for the common sizes but am
unwilling to sell them except to someone who knows what they're doing.

--
*It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Harry Bloomfield
writes
Check the plastic sleeving, they sometimes stamp the core size it fits
on that.

If you can find a terminated end the "pot" should also have the size
embossed on it, like 2L1.5 for two core 1.5mm (If it's metric).

Alternatively replace that whole bit of pyro with twin and earth if it's
suitable.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

In message .com, Ben
writes
I haven't got any callipers, but the external diameter seems to be
5.5mm or 7/32". Do either of those sound like standard sizes (they
don't sound it...) Ooo err. This is not good. I WISH he hadn't cut the
cable!

Did he actually cut the pyro? So has he torn the copper back and just
connected onto the wires where they come out of the chalk?

If so he really shouldn't be doing electrical work.


--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
And you may have a problem finding an electrician who can work this
stuff - it's not much used these days, and ideally needs special tools
to make the termination.

Pyro is still widely used in modern buildings for alarm systems despite
the availability of other fire rated cables. It's also used in fuel
stations and some entertainment venues.

Pyro is an abbreviation of Pyrotenax.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

Ben wrote:

I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of a
hash of it.

If he really was a decorator what did you expect? ;-)

The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.

Follow the cable back to the next accessory in line, and replace it with
T&E from there.

How big a job would it be for someone to chisel out space for a
junction box and make the above joint, then presumably test the ring
for continuity etc.

Half hour tops, with normal T&E, crimps, heatshrink etc and a SDS drill
- perhaps longer if including a MICC pot as well.

Ring mains seem deadly - they still work if they
are split, but you're fuse is twice what it should be. I wouldn't know
anything was wrong unless I'd happened to notice an unusual wire...

When you analyse the most likely faults that can happen, ring circuits
are a pretty good compromise all things considered (much harder for one
poor joint to leave the bulk of a circuit unearthed, or the full design
current passing through one high resistance point). Not to mention the
current carrying capacity[1] for 1.5mm^2 MICC in plaster is not far of
the circuit breaker rating anyway at 28A. So you would have to try quite
hard to cause damage to that during normal usage.


[1] Table 4J2A in BS7671


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article ,
Clive Mitchell wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
And you may have a problem finding an electrician who can work this
stuff - it's not much used these days, and ideally needs special tools
to make the termination.

Pyro is still widely used in modern buildings for alarm systems despite
the availability of other fire rated cables. It's also used in fuel
stations and some entertainment venues.

Indeed - however your average jobbing domestic sparks ain't going to work
in such places.

Pyro is an abbreviation of Pyrotenax.

Of course the Pyrotenax company no longer exists - they merged with BICC
some 40 years ago. But the name tends to be generic - like hoover.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18 Apr, 00:10, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article . com,
Ben wrote:

I have just had some new sockets inserted into my ring-main - or
rather not. The decorator who did it turns out to have made a bit of a
hash of it. The problem is that at one end the join to the old ring
can be made in the outlet socket - no problem. Because of the way the
old cable was removed though the new join has to happen in the middle
of nowhere. To compound matters the old cable is pyro, so needs
special connectors etc.
I'm getting an electrician to sort it, but want to get an idea of what
to tell him and what to expect.

Do you know when the 'pyro' was installed? It doesn't need special
connectors as such but has to be properly terminated. This involves
fitting a special seal to the end. If you look inside a socket etc you'll
see what I mean.

If it's old imperial stuff - roughly pre '70 or so - I dunno where you'll
find a termination kit. And even the modern stuff might be tricky,
depending on your location. Few wholesalers stock MICC these days.
For reference if it's the current metric cable it will almost certainly be
2L1.5 for a final ring circuit.

And you may have a problem finding an electrician who can work this stuff
- it's not much used these days, and ideally needs special tools to make
the termination.

I do have a small stock of terminations for the common sizes but am
unwilling to sell them except to someone who knows what they're doing.

--
*It's a thankless job, but I've got a lot of Karma to burn off

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Hi - Thanks for the reply. I have got an electrician coming around who
has worked with pyro cable before, but the cable is bare unmarked
brass so he'll need to work out what type it is. We then need to
discuss the practicalities of joining vs rerunning (rerunning would be
an arse). He also suggested just derating, but I really want to avoid
that if I can!

If he is able to identify the cable but unable to find the bits,
perhaps I could contact you again? He can't make it around for about a
week - I have isolated the offending cable, but how much of a problem
will atmospheric moisture be? Should I temporarily tryt to seal it off
with a blob of glue or similar?

Cheers,

Ben

On 18 Apr, 09:46, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Clive Mitchell wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
And you may have a problem finding an electrician who can work this
stuff - it's not much used these days, and ideally needs special tools
to make the termination.
Pyro is still widely used in modern buildings for alarm systems despite
the availability of other fire rated cables. It's also used in fuel
stations and some entertainment venues.

Indeed - however your average jobbing domestic sparks ain't going to work
in such places.

Pyro is an abbreviation of Pyrotenax.

Of course the Pyrotenax company no longer exists - they merged with BICC
some 40 years ago. But the name tends to be generic - like hoover.

--
*Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I think the original problem was this:

The plan was to remove the pyro between two outlets and replace it
with modern cable. But the old cable was removed before it was all
exposed. It turns out that just before it reaches the second socket,
it diverts to the next floor up, loops the bedroom, and then comes
back down again - all in the horizontal space of a few cm. So when he
had removed the cable he all of a sudden found it didn't go to an
easily accesible socket, and the problems started. However, not new
cable/pyro cable have been made yet (which would reform the ring) due
to the lack of an electrician and of the neccesary bits. I've found
someone, but he's busy this week, so fingers crossed for next.

Ben



Ben

On 18 Apr, 09:46, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article ,
Clive Mitchell wrote:

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
And you may have a problem finding an electrician who can work this
stuff - it's not much used these days, and ideally needs special tools
to make the termination.
Pyro is still widely used in modern buildings for alarm systems despite
the availability of other fire rated cables. It's also used in fuel
stations and some entertainment venues.

Indeed - however your average jobbing domestic sparks ain't going to work
in such places.

Pyro is an abbreviation of Pyrotenax.

Of course the Pyrotenax company no longer exists - they merged with BICC
some 40 years ago. But the name tends to be generic - like hoover.


I obtained a pack of pot seals and a pack of glands for 2L1.5 from
Newey and Eyre this week. The brand name Pyrotenax boldly displayrd on
the packs!

In article .com,
Ben wrote:
Hi - Thanks for the reply. I have got an electrician coming around who
has worked with pyro cable before, but the cable is bare unmarked
brass so he'll need to work out what type it is.

A termination 'pot' should have the details on it, so a look inside the
socket feeding the cable should do it. And the cable outer is copper - not
brass.

We then need to
discuss the practicalities of joining vs rerunning (rerunning would be
an arse). He also suggested just derating, but I really want to avoid
that if I can!

That's a bit of a worry. Assuming there is about 12" of the MICC get
attable, it should be possible to fit a new termination.

If he is able to identify the cable but unable to find the bits,
perhaps I could contact you again?

Yes. But only after he's certain he can't order them from his wholesaler -
as I say I keep them for my own emergencies. ;-)

He can't make it around for about a
week - I have isolated the offending cable, but how much of a problem
will atmospheric moisture be? Should I temporarily tryt to seal it off
with a blob of glue or similar?

Tape it over with PVC tape.

--
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article . com,
cynic wrote:
Of course the Pyrotenax company no longer exists - they merged with
BICC some 40 years ago. But the name tends to be generic - like
hoover.


I obtained a pack of pot seals and a pack of glands for 2L1.5 from
Newey and Eyre this week. The brand name Pyrotenax boldly displayrd on
the packs!

That's interesting - last ones I bought were 2L1 about a couple of years
ago (for lighting wiring in an oak beamed room) and they were just marked
BICC.

--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) used his keyboard to write :
He can't make it around for about a
week - I have isolated the offending cable, but how much of a problem
will atmospheric moisture be? Should I temporarily tryt to seal it off
with a blob of glue or similar?

Tape it over with PVC tape.

Which would be effective, if you could get the tape to stick
effectively to completely exclude air - usually it doesn't, so can I
suggest a blob of silicon sealant perhaps? Another way would be to put
a blob of the potting compound over the end - I assume you got some
with the seals and glands?

The manufacturer used to seal the cut ends with something similar to a
tar like substance I seem to remember.

The idea is to simply stop the white chalky substance - the insulation
(aluminium oxide?) absorbing moisture from the air.

--

Regards,
Harry (M1BYT) (L)
http://www.ukradioamateur.co.uk

On 18 Apr, 19:16, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:
In article . com,
cynic wrote:

Of course the Pyrotenax company no longer exists - they merged with
BICC some 40 years ago. But the name tends to be generic - like
hoover.

I obtained a pack of pot seals and a pack of glands for 2L1.5 from
Newey and Eyre this week. The brand name Pyrotenax boldly displayrd on
the packs!

That's interesting - last ones I bought were 2L1 about a couple of years
ago (for lighting wiring in an oak beamed room) and they were just marked
BICC.

--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I'll have a look when I get back for the type of cable it is. Last
time I looked, I could see the two copper wires, which had been
sheathed with black plastic. They disappeared into a larger diameter
black circular pipe that was filled with some sort of resin. I can't
really see the other side of the pots, as they are behind plaster.
Whereabouts should I be looking for the designation (is it, in fact,
on the outside edge of the box - if needs be I can always remove a bit
of plaster to have a peek, since that section of wall hasn't been
finished properly yet anyway)

I have definitely learnt a lesson from this whole episode!

Cheers,

Ben

On 18 Apr, 20:53, Ben wrote:
On 18 Apr, 19:16, "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:





In article . com,
cynic wrote:

Of course the Pyrotenax company no longer exists - they merged with
BICC some 40 years ago. But the name tends to be generic - like
hoover.

I obtained a pack of pot seals and a pack of glands for 2L1.5 from
Newey and Eyre this week. The brand name Pyrotenax boldly displayrd on
the packs!

That's interesting - last ones I bought were 2L1 about a couple of years
ago (for lighting wiring in an oak beamed room) and they were just marked
BICC.

--
*Why is it that to stop Windows 95, you have to click on "Start"?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I'll have a look when I get back for the type of cable it is. Last
time I looked, I could see the two copper wires, which had been
sheathed with black plastic. They disappeared into a larger diameter
black circular pipe that was filled with some sort of resin. I can't
really see the other side of the pots, as they are behind plaster.
Whereabouts should I be looking for the designation (is it, in fact,
on the outside edge of the box - if needs be I can always remove a bit
of plaster to have a peek, since that section of wall hasn't been
finished properly yet anyway)

I have definitely learnt a lesson from this whole episode!

Cheers,

Ben- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If your electrician can't identify the size of cable you can send a
sample to one of the manufacturers. They are usually helpful. I have
done this with a bit of old imperial size. They sent me a pair of pot
seals almost by return. (about 7 years ago now)

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield writes:
The idea is to simply stop the white chalky substance - the insulation
(aluminium oxide?) absorbing moisture from the air.

Magnesium oxide.

--
Andrew Gabriel
[email address is not usable -- followup in the newsgroup]

In article ,
Harry Bloomfield wrote:
Tape it over with PVC tape.

Which would be effective, if you could get the tape to stick
effectively to completely exclude air - usually it doesn't,

To copper? I'd expect it to stick pretty well.

so can I
suggest a blob of silicon sealant perhaps? Another way would be to put
a blob of the potting compound over the end - I assume you got some
with the seals and glands?

*I* have, but the OP hasn't.

The manufacturer used to seal the cut ends with something similar to a
tar like substance I seem to remember.

I can't say I've seen that - although I've rarely bought a complete coil.
Usually a cut length.

The idea is to simply stop the white chalky substance - the insulation
(aluminium oxide?) absorbing moisture from the air.

Indoors it does so very slowly, though, and the act of stripping to
terminate will remove the dodgy bit.

--
*I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article .com,
Ben wrote:
I'll have a look when I get back for the type of cable it is. Last
time I looked, I could see the two copper wires, which had been
sheathed with black plastic. They disappeared into a larger diameter
black circular pipe that was filled with some sort of resin. I can't
really see the other side of the pots, as they are behind plaster.
Whereabouts should I be looking for the designation (is it, in fact,
on the outside edge of the box - if needs be I can always remove a bit
of plaster to have a peek, since that section of wall hasn't been
finished properly yet anyway)

The material inside the pot seal is rather like putty - except that it
doesn't set. It's normal to either clamp the seal in a special back box to
provide the earth, or to use a compression gland which fits a standard 3/4
cutout and is fixed by a backing ring. Although I've a feeling neither of
these methods is now considered satisfactory for an ECC.

I have definitely learnt a lesson from this whole episode!

It's a very tactile material to work with when the cable is exposed.
Rather like plumbing in many ways.

--
*If all is not lost, where the hell is it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
The material inside the pot seal is rather like putty - except that it
doesn't set. It's normal to either clamp the seal in a special back box
to provide the earth, or to use a compression gland which fits a
standard 3/4 cutout and is fixed by a backing ring. Although I've a
feeling neither of these methods is now considered satisfactory for an
ECC.

I prefer earth tail pots.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

In article ,
Clive Mitchell wrote:
In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
The material inside the pot seal is rather like putty - except that it
doesn't set. It's normal to either clamp the seal in a special back box
to provide the earth, or to use a compression gland which fits a
standard 3/4 cutout and is fixed by a backing ring. Although I've a
feeling neither of these methods is now considered satisfactory for an
ECC.

I prefer earth tail pots.

Right. Are those the preferred method these days?

--
*If you don't like the news, go out and make some.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , "Dave Plowman (News)"
writes
I prefer earth tail pots.

Right. Are those the preferred method these days?

Not in all cases, but they are a good reliable way of getting a solid
earth bond. A pigtail of wire is bonded to the pot itself during
manufacture.

--
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com