A friend of mine is in the process of buying a house which has a Baxi
Bermuda PW5 Delux back boiler.

The gas fire bit of it looks very new to me and I understand the
boiler may only have been fitted fairly recently.

I've not had any experience of back boilers, my initial instinct was
that it would be old and would need ripping out and replacing with a
normal boiler mounted on the wall but if this is relatively new then
it might well be ok?

Questions:

Are back boilers still made and fitted?
Are there any pros and cons to them over a conventional boiler?
Can the fire bit be replaced - I'm wondering if the boiler could be
older than the fire looks?
Any other thoughts?

Thanks

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
wrote:

A friend of mine is in the process of buying a house which has a Baxi
Bermuda PW5 Delux back boiler.

The gas fire bit of it looks very new to me and I understand the
boiler may only have been fitted fairly recently.

I've not had any experience of back boilers, my initial instinct was
that it would be old and would need ripping out and replacing with a
normal boiler mounted on the wall but if this is relatively new then
it might well be ok?

Questions:

Are back boilers still made and fitted?

Probably - just. In order to fit one today, you'd have to demonstrate an
exemption from fitting a condensing boiler - for which there is a points
system. In other words, if the degree of difficulty in fitting a condensing
boiler elsewhere scores you enough points, you can still fit a
non-condensing back boiler.

Are there any pros and cons to them over a conventional boiler?

The pro is that they save space by putting the boiler in the otherwise
unused builder's opening, rather than having to have it in the kitchen, etc.
The con is that they are less efficient in converted gas to useful heat than
more modern designs - particularly condensing boilers - so the running costs
will be higher.

Can the fire bit be replaced - I'm wondering if the boiler could be
older than the fire looks?

Yes, I believe that Baxi do or did do replacement gas fires for some models
of Bermuda - so the boiler *could* be older than the fire, but may not
necessarily be so.

Any other thoughts?

Thanks

A lot depends on what else your friend indends to do with the house. If
he/she is going to gut it and modernise it in other ways it may be a good
idea to replace the boiler at the same time. But if they just want to move
in and live in the house as is, I would leave the boiler alone as long as it
works ok. It's quite a major upheaval to replace it - because a lot of pipes
need moving.
--
Cheers,
Roger
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wrote in message
oups.com...
A friend of mine is in the process of buying a house which has a Baxi
Bermuda PW5 Delux back boiler.

The gas fire bit of it looks very new to me and I understand the
boiler may only have been fitted fairly recently.

I've not had any experience of back boilers, my initial instinct was
that it would be old and would need ripping out and replacing with a
normal boiler mounted on the wall but if this is relatively new then
it might well be ok?

Questions:

Are back boilers still made and fitted?
Are there any pros and cons to them over a conventional boiler?
Can the fire bit be replaced - I'm wondering if the boiler could be
older than the fire looks?
Any other thoughts?

Thanks


I think back boilers were popular around 25 years ago. They sat at the back
of a gas fire and heated the water for the central heating and hot water
system. Very inefficient compared to the wall mounted condensing boilers
and combination boilers on the market.
The one you mention is one of the latest boiler called a "back boiler" but a
lot better than what most of us think of when that term is used.
Just check to see it is not an older boiler behind the fire front.

Have a look here and it might help to explain what the new ones look like -

http://www.a1-gas.co.uk/html/heatprod/baxi.html

You will also need the correct sized air vent if it is in a living room.
Insist on getting a safety certificate and having any work corrected or you
might end up dead.

On 14 Apr 2007 06:39:43 -0700, wrote:

A friend of mine is in the process of buying a house which has a Baxi
Bermuda PW5 Delux back boiler.

The gas fire bit of it looks very new to me and I understand the
boiler may only have been fitted fairly recently.

I've not had any experience of back boilers, my initial instinct was
that it would be old and would need ripping out and replacing with a
normal boiler mounted on the wall but if this is relatively new then
it might well be ok?

Questions:

Are back boilers still made and fitted?
Are there any pros and cons to them over a conventional boiler?
Can the fire bit be replaced - I'm wondering if the boiler could be
older than the fire looks?
Any other thoughts?

Thanks
Hi there,

Dont worry about it. Its still possible to buy/install back boilers
and fire combinations in certain circumstances and there are planty of
them out there working perfectly and giving good service.

Please see

http://www.baxi.co.uk/products/liter...rmudaBroch.pdf

There are optional fire fronts available. I'm not sure without
checking but i think the PW5 is toward the newer end of the scale.

Adavantages are that they are hidden behind the fire,you can get new
firefronts to suit, they provide plenty of hot water (stored) and are
nice simple technology. Wall mounted combi boilers are de riguer these
days and these also have advantages/disadvantages but i wouldnt worry
about this issue. As long as its properly installed and working fine
dont let it bar you from buying a house. It will almost certainly give
you years of good service.

"Psst" wrote in message
...
On 14 Apr 2007 06:39:43 -0700, wrote:

A friend of mine is in the process of buying a house which has a Baxi
Bermuda PW5 Delux back boiler.

Questions:

Are back boilers still made and fitted?
Are there any pros and cons to them over a conventional boiler?
Can the fire bit be replaced - I'm wondering if the boiler could be
older than the fire looks?
Any other thoughts?

Thanks


Adavantages are that they are hidden behind the fire,you can get new
firefronts to suit, they provide plenty of hot water (stored) and are
nice simple technology. Wall mounted combi boilers are de riguer these
days and these also have advantages/disadvantages but i wouldnt worry
about this issue. As long as its properly installed and working fine
dont let it bar you from buying a house. It will almost certainly give
you years of good service.

I agree, compared to people we know with the latest Combi type boilers, from
my own experience the Baxi has a far greater life expectancy and lower
maintenance costs even though the fuel efficiency may be down. Having said
that if you have to have a costly maintenance contracts on a new combi or
pay £200 + labour for pcb replacement on the greater fuel efficient boiler
then any lower fuel cost savings have just gone out of the window . Ours is
still going strong when other 'conventional' boilers have failed and have
actually been replaced because it was more economic to do so because
reliability was still suspect if repaired.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 06:39:43 -0700, murmansk wrote:

Are there any pros and cons to them over a conventional boiler?

Apart from the pros and cons already mentioned bear in mind that the
boiler needs to get its combustion air from the room it's installed in.
Unless there's a duct under the floor this means having a ruddy great
permanently-open ventilator in the room (roughly equivalent to having
a house-brick missing from the wall) giving a freezing draught across
the room in the winter.

Also when it does need replacing you'll probably be facing some upheaval
to re-plumb the system to a modern boiler in a different location.

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:19:44 +0100, me9 wrote:

It's about time a manufacturer came up with a similarly sized condensing
boiler with twin flue&inlet pipes that could be threaded through an
existing chimney. They only need to be 50mm each, so they should fit
inside a 9" brick flue easily. it would only need a suitable terminal on
the top, and a condensate drain/pump.

I believe halstead do a condensing flue that can be fitted up a corrugated
stainless flue liner. However the problem with a back boiler (as with
combined range/boilers) is that the gas fire part is non-condensing so
needs a high-temperature flue.

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:01:11 +0000, John Stumbles wrote:

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 13:19:44 +0100, me9 wrote:

It's about time a manufacturer came up with a similarly sized condensing
boiler with twin flue&inlet pipes that could be threaded through an
existing chimney. They only need to be 50mm each, so they should fit
inside a 9" brick flue easily. it would only need a suitable terminal on
the top, and a condensate drain/pump.

I believe halstead do a condensing flue that can be fitted up a corrugated
stainless flue liner. However the problem with a back boiler (as with
combined range/boilers) is that the gas fire part is non-condensing so
needs a high-temperature flue.

Chimneys are as often as not crooked.
There would rarely be an easy route for the condensate.







--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards