We bought a new 4 bedroom house 8 years ago fitted with a Saunier Duval
Thelia Twin 28E combi boiler which provides both heating and hot water.
A couple of years ago we converted our loft into a room with en-suite
bathroom so we now have:

5 rooms downstairs - utility, kitchen + sun room, lounge, office,
toilet, hallway - 6 radiators
5 rooms on 1st floor: 4 bedrooms, 1 en-suite bathroom, house bathroom -
7 radiators
2 rooms on 2nd floor: bedroom, bathroom - 3 radiators

In total there are 16 radiators of various sizes, 3 showers, 2 baths
and 6 sinks. There is a 7 day programmable thermostat in the hallway
and all radiators are fitted with TVR's. The current boiler is large
and resides in the garage.

My wife and I and our three young boys (12, 10 and 6) live in the
property. Usually, we only tend to use one shower at a time, partly
because even running a tap will reduce the shower water pressure,
however, as our eldest has started showering every day there is more
chance that two showers will be going at the same time in the near
distant future so we would like a boiler that could manage this. We
would also prefer a boiler with a small hot water storage cylinder so
that hot water is always instantly available. I believe the Thelia
Twin has this.

We have a **lot** of problems with our current Saunier Duval boiler and
it didn't take me long after moving in to realise that the builder had
cut his costs by installing this make of boiler. I suspect that the
current boiler problems are due to the increased heating requirements
caused by the loft conversion (although the developers told us it would
be fine), its age and the fact that I believe it is a poor quality
boiler. We currently pay insurance for a 3* boiler maintenance
contract and to have the boiler serviced annualy.

I would appreciate any recommendations on what boiler we should use if
we were to replace our Thelia Twin. Obviously, I would prefer a boiler
that is efficient and reliable and that could handle the extra heating
load, be capable of feeding two showers simultaneously and storing hot
water.

Thanks.

On 7 Nov 2006 05:51:40 -0800 someone who may be "Milleniumaire"
wrote this:-

3 showers, 2 baths and 6 sinks.

Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
sees in houses, won't run all of this lot. What you need is a stored
hot water system, probably with a fairly large amount of storage.

The number of cylinders, their location and their size depends on
the precise layout of all the outlets and the house. An instant
heating setup may be suitable for feeding a few sinks near the
boiler, in which case one cylinder elsewhere may be sufficient.

Consider a thermal store as well.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"Milleniumaire" wrote in message
oups.com...
We bought a new 4 bedroom house 8 years ago fitted with a Saunier Duval
Thelia Twin 28E combi boiler which provides both heating and hot water.
A couple of years ago we converted our loft into a room with en-suite
bathroom so we now have:

5 rooms downstairs - utility, kitchen + sun room, lounge, office,
toilet, hallway - 6 radiators
5 rooms on 1st floor: 4 bedrooms, 1 en-suite bathroom, house bathroom -
7 radiators
2 rooms on 2nd floor: bedroom, bathroom - 3 radiators

In total there are 16 radiators of various sizes, 3 showers, 2 baths
and 6 sinks. There is a 7 day programmable thermostat in the hallway
and all radiators are fitted with TVR's. The current boiler is large
and resides in the garage.

My wife and I and our three young boys (12, 10 and 6) live in the
property. Usually, we only tend to use one shower at a time, partly
because even running a tap will reduce the shower water pressure,
however, as our eldest has started showering every day there is more
chance that two showers will be going at the same time in the near
distant future so we would like a boiler that could manage this. We
would also prefer a boiler with a small hot water storage cylinder so
that hot water is always instantly available. I believe the Thelia
Twin has this.

We have a **lot** of problems with our current Saunier Duval boiler and
it didn't take me long after moving in to realise that the builder had
cut his costs by installing this make of boiler. I suspect that the
current boiler problems are due to the increased heating requirements
caused by the loft conversion (although the developers told us it would
be fine), its age and the fact that I believe it is a poor quality
boiler. We currently pay insurance for a 3* boiler maintenance
contract and to have the boiler serviced annualy.

I would appreciate any recommendations on what boiler we should use if
we were to replace our Thelia Twin. Obviously, I would prefer a boiler
that is efficient and reliable and that could handle the extra heating
load, be capable of feeding two showers simultaneously and storing hot
water.

Thanks.


Have a look at http://www.acv-uk.com/hm35tc.htm Its an expensive (over £3k)
floor standing combi boiler that may address your needs without major
plumbing work. It has a significant inbuilt hot water store so can deliver
400l with a 40deg rise for the first 10 mins. I was very impressed with
their regional sales rep - he'll call round after commissioning to check the
installers work! - a spin off from them being commercial boiler
manufacturers? In the end with no space constraints I've gone down the
heat bank route - With the disruption and commercial plumbing charges I
doubt there is much "cost" difference.
There was some very constructive discussion about the boiler on the group in
2005 at
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_frm/thread/6bb52bb358c09645/623ba4c24b2ea25e?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2&hl=en#623ba4c24b 2ea25e
starting around post #68 of 293!

PeterK

On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 05:51:40 -0800, Milleniumaire wrote:

We bought a new 4 bedroom house 8 years ago fitted with a Saunier Duval
Thelia Twin 28E combi boiler which provides both heating and hot water.
A couple of years ago we converted our loft into a room with en-suite
bathroom so we now have:

5 rooms downstairs - utility, kitchen + sun room, lounge, office,
toilet, hallway - 6 radiators
5 rooms on 1st floor: 4 bedrooms, 1 en-suite bathroom, house bathroom -
7 radiators
2 rooms on 2nd floor: bedroom, bathroom - 3 radiators

In total there are 16 radiators of various sizes, 3 showers, 2 baths
and 6 sinks. There is a 7 day programmable thermostat in the hallway
and all radiators are fitted with TVR's. The current boiler is large
and resides in the garage.

My wife and I and our three young boys (12, 10 and 6) live in the
property. Usually, we only tend to use one shower at a time, partly
because even running a tap will reduce the shower water pressure,
however, as our eldest has started showering every day there is more
chance that two showers will be going at the same time in the near
distant future so we would like a boiler that could manage this. We
would also prefer a boiler with a small hot water storage cylinder so
that hot water is always instantly available. I believe the Thelia
Twin has this.

We have a **lot** of problems with our current Saunier Duval boiler and
it didn't take me long after moving in to realise that the builder had
cut his costs by installing this make of boiler. I suspect that the
current boiler problems are due to the increased heating requirements
caused by the loft conversion (although the developers told us it would
be fine), its age and the fact that I believe it is a poor quality
boiler. We currently pay insurance for a 3* boiler maintenance
contract and to have the boiler serviced annualy.

I would appreciate any recommendations on what boiler we should use if
we were to replace our Thelia Twin. Obviously, I would prefer a boiler
that is efficient and reliable and that could handle the extra heating
load, be capable of feeding two showers simultaneously and storing hot
water.

Read the Boiler Choice FAQ as a starting point. Get some idea of the space
heating requirements by measuring up and doing the sums (see FAQ).
The HW system should be based on the number of people that could
plausibly, regularly inhabit the house (not the worst case), allow 25
litres per person.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html
Choosing a Boiler FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/BoilerChoice.html
Gas Fitting Standards Docs he http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFittingStandards

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 07 Nov 2006 05:51:40 -0800, Milleniumaire wrote:

We bought a new 4 bedroom house 8 years ago fitted with a Saunier Duval
Thelia Twin 28E combi boiler which provides both heating and hot water.
A couple of years ago we converted our loft into a room with en-suite
bathroom so we now have:

5 rooms downstairs - utility, kitchen + sun room, lounge, office,
toilet, hallway - 6 radiators
5 rooms on 1st floor: 4 bedrooms, 1 en-suite bathroom, house bathroom -
7 radiators
2 rooms on 2nd floor: bedroom, bathroom - 3 radiators

In total there are 16 radiators of various sizes, 3 showers, 2 baths
and 6 sinks. There is a 7 day programmable thermostat in the hallway
and all radiators are fitted with TVR's. The current boiler is large
and resides in the garage.

My wife and I and our three young boys (12, 10 and 6) live in the
property. Usually, we only tend to use one shower at a time, partly
because even running a tap will reduce the shower water pressure,
however, as our eldest has started showering every day there is more
chance that two showers will be going at the same time in the near
distant future so we would like a boiler that could manage this. We
would also prefer a boiler with a small hot water storage cylinder so
that hot water is always instantly available. I believe the Thelia
Twin has this.

We have a **lot** of problems with our current Saunier Duval boiler and
it didn't take me long after moving in to realise that the builder had
cut his costs by installing this make of boiler. I suspect that the
current boiler problems are due to the increased heating requirements
caused by the loft conversion (although the developers told us it would
be fine), its age and the fact that I believe it is a poor quality
boiler. We currently pay insurance for a 3* boiler maintenance
contract and to have the boiler serviced annualy.

I would appreciate any recommendations on what boiler we should use if
we were to replace our Thelia Twin. Obviously, I would prefer a boiler
that is efficient and reliable and that could handle the extra heating
load, be capable of feeding two showers simultaneously and storing hot
water.

Read the Boiler Choice FAQ as a starting point.

Don't. It is 20 years out of date.

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 7 Nov 2006 05:51:40 -0800 someone who may be "Milleniumaire"
wrote this:-

3 showers, 2 baths and 6 sinks.

Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
sees in houses, won't run all of this lot. What you need is a stored
hot water system, probably with a fairly large amount of storage.

If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

Consider a thermal store as well.

Sensible.

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On 7 Nov 2006 05:51:40 -0800 someone who may be "Milleniumaire"
wrote this:-

3 showers, 2 baths and 6 sinks.

Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
sees in houses, won't run all of this lot.

A Rinnai multi-point will do the same flow rates as a stored water system.
You have to be realistic, what he needs is a system that can cope with 3
showers at 7 litre/minute. Two baths on together is so rare.

"PeterK" wrote in message
...

"Milleniumaire" wrote in message
oups.com...
We bought a new 4 bedroom house 8 years ago fitted with a Saunier Duval
Thelia Twin 28E combi boiler which provides both heating and hot water.
A couple of years ago we converted our loft into a room with en-suite
bathroom so we now have:

5 rooms downstairs - utility, kitchen + sun room, lounge, office,
toilet, hallway - 6 radiators
5 rooms on 1st floor: 4 bedrooms, 1 en-suite bathroom, house bathroom -
7 radiators
2 rooms on 2nd floor: bedroom, bathroom - 3 radiators

In total there are 16 radiators of various sizes, 3 showers, 2 baths
and 6 sinks. There is a 7 day programmable thermostat in the hallway
and all radiators are fitted with TVR's. The current boiler is large
and resides in the garage.

My wife and I and our three young boys (12, 10 and 6) live in the
property. Usually, we only tend to use one shower at a time, partly
because even running a tap will reduce the shower water pressure,
however, as our eldest has started showering every day there is more
chance that two showers will be going at the same time in the near
distant future so we would like a boiler that could manage this. We
would also prefer a boiler with a small hot water storage cylinder so
that hot water is always instantly available. I believe the Thelia
Twin has this.

We have a **lot** of problems with our current Saunier Duval boiler and
it didn't take me long after moving in to realise that the builder had
cut his costs by installing this make of boiler. I suspect that the
current boiler problems are due to the increased heating requirements
caused by the loft conversion (although the developers told us it would
be fine), its age and the fact that I believe it is a poor quality
boiler. We currently pay insurance for a 3* boiler maintenance
contract and to have the boiler serviced annualy.

I would appreciate any recommendations on what boiler we should use if
we were to replace our Thelia Twin. Obviously, I would prefer a boiler
that is efficient and reliable and that could handle the extra heating
load, be capable of feeding two showers simultaneously and storing hot
water.

Thanks.


Have a look at http://www.acv-uk.com/hm35tc.htm Its an expensive (over
£3k) floor standing combi boiler that may address your needs without major
plumbing work. It has a significant inbuilt hot water store so can deliver
400l with a 40deg rise for the first 10 mins. I was very impressed with
their regional sales rep - he'll call round after commissioning to check
the installers work! - a spin off from them being commercial boiler
manufacturers? In the end with no space constraints I've gone down the
heat bank route - With the disruption and commercial plumbing charges I
doubt there is much "cost" difference.
There was some very constructive discussion about the boiler on the group
in 2005 at
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_frm/thread/6bb52bb358c09645/623ba4c24b2ea25e?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2&hl=en#623ba4c24b 2ea25e
starting around post #68 of 293!

PeterK

Was that 3K fitted? I have seen them for sale at £2,300 just for the unit.
But £3K for a 2.3 to 3 bathroom job is quite cheap. Compare that to a
boiler and large unvented cylinder and the ACV wins, and takes up less space
and is all stainless steel.

The ACV is a class act. An unvented cylinder/thermal store hybrid, that also
condenses even in summer on just DHW.

One alternative for the poster is have a Rinnai or Andrews multi-point two
bathroom water heater. They have models that can go outside on the wall.
This will deliver the DHW flows no problem. The Rinnai is the largest
selling water heater in the world - made in Japan and a class act. They
have a remote waterproof temperature controller. You can be in the bath or
shower and set the temperature. The Andrews is also made I think in Japan
by Rinnai or a competitor.

Then if the old boiler is fine on just CH, disconnect the troublesome DHW
section - it may need water inside, so just cap up the outlet pipe to the
taps. Or if the boiler is shot, buy one sized to suit the CH demands.

A problem will be that if both are on at the same time the gas meter will be
too small. The way around this is have a flow switch on the cold feed to the
Rinnai. Run the CH boiler room stat circuit through this and the room stat.
When the Rinnai demands hot water the CH is turned off. No cylinders, tanks
and two girls can stay in the shower for ever more and not run out of hot
water.

Look at Rinnai and Andrews:
http://www.discountedheating.co.uk/shop/acatalog/Gas_Water_Heaters.html

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:35:38 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

|
|"David Hansen" wrote in message
.. .
| On 7 Nov 2006 05:51:40 -0800 someone who may be "Milleniumaire"
| wrote this:-
|
|3 showers, 2 baths and 6 sinks.
|
| Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
| sees in houses, won't run all of this lot. What you need is a stored
| hot water system, probably with a fairly large amount of storage.
|
|If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

Depends on the size of the store, and the diameter of the pipes. 22 mm
everywhere would be a good idea, An extra large tank and an extra large
cylinder also.

| Consider a thermal store as well.
|
|Sensible.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:38:30 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

|
|"David Hansen" wrote in message
.. .
| On 7 Nov 2006 05:51:40 -0800 someone who may be "Milleniumaire"
| wrote this:-
|
|3 showers, 2 baths and 6 sinks.
|
| Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
| sees in houses, won't run all of this lot.
|
|A Rinnai multi-point will do the same flow rates as a stored water system.
|You have to be realistic, what he needs is a system that can cope with 3
|showers at 7 litre/minute. Two baths on together is so rare.

How many/few women do you have in your household ;-)
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:35:38 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

|
|"David Hansen" wrote in message
.. .
| On 7 Nov 2006 05:51:40 -0800 someone who may be "Milleniumaire"
| wrote this:-
|
|3 showers, 2 baths and 6 sinks.
|
| Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
| sees in houses, won't run all of this lot. What you need is a stored
| hot water system, probably with a fairly large amount of storage.
|
|If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

Depends on the size of the store, and the diameter of the pipes. 22 mm
everywhere would be a good idea, An extra large tank and an extra large
cylinder also.

You will need 28mm and above in a lot of it and the sizes of cylinder pipes,
etc will be then commercial. You can get commercial instant DHW
multi-points too. The aim is to be sensible about DHW demand.

"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:38:30 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

|
|"David Hansen" wrote in message
.. .
| On 7 Nov 2006 05:51:40 -0800 someone who may be "Milleniumaire"
| wrote this:-
|
|3 showers, 2 baths and 6 sinks.
|
| Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
| sees in houses, won't run all of this lot.
|
|A Rinnai multi-point will do the same flow rates as a stored water
system.
|You have to be realistic, what he needs is a system that can cope with 3
|showers at 7 litre/minute. Two baths on together is so rare.

How many/few women do you have in your household ;-)

As I said...Two baths on together is so rare.

"PeterK" wrote in message
...
Have a look at http://www.acv-uk.com/hm35tc.htm Its an expensive (over
£3k) floor standing combi boiler that may address your needs without major
plumbing work. It has a significant inbuilt hot water store so can deliver
400l with a 40deg rise for the first 10 mins. I was very impressed with
their regional sales rep - he'll call round after commissioning to check
the installers work! - a spin off from them being commercial boiler
manufacturers? In the end with no space constraints I've gone down the
heat bank route - With the disruption and commercial plumbing charges I
doubt there is much "cost" difference.
There was some very constructive discussion about the boiler on the group
in 2005 at
http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk.d-i-y/browse_frm/thread/6bb52bb358c09645/623ba4c24b2ea25e?lnk=st&q=&rnum=2&hl=en#623ba4c24b 2ea25e
starting around post #68 of 293!

Good thread. A shame the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) ruined
it.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 21:28:51 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

|
|"Dave Fawthrop" wrote in message
.. .
| On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:38:30 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
| wrote:
|
| |
| |"David Hansen" wrote in message
| .. .
| | On 7 Nov 2006 05:51:40 -0800 someone who may be "Milleniumaire"
| | wrote this:-
| |
| |3 showers, 2 baths and 6 sinks.
| |
| | Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
| | sees in houses, won't run all of this lot.
| |
| |A Rinnai multi-point will do the same flow rates as a stored water
| system.
| |You have to be realistic, what he needs is a system that can cope with 3
| |showers at 7 litre/minute. Two baths on together is so rare.
|
| How many/few women do you have in your household ;-)
|
|As I said...Two baths on together is so rare.

If I had two baths *they* would always want a bath at the same time :-(

OP has several boys, Hope they do not play in the same football team.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:33:58 UTC, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Read the Boiler Choice FAQ as a starting point.

Don't. It is 20 years out of date.

Whereas Drivel is 100 miles out of touch with reality.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
Avenue Supplies, http://avenuesupplies.co.uk

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:33:58 UTC, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

Read the Boiler Choice FAQ as a starting point.

Don't. It is 20 years out of date.

Whereas Drivel is 100 miles out of touch with reality.

I've seen what you write.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 21:27:47 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

The aim is to be sensible about DHW demand.

Falls off chair in astonishment So the pills are working then?


--

"Matt" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 21:27:47 -0000, "Doctor Drivel"
wrote:

The aim is to be sensible about DHW demand.

Falls off chair in astonishment So the pills are working then?

Lord Hall, no your pills are not working, you fell off the chair. You need
to attend the clinic more.

On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:35:38 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
wrote this:-

Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
sees in houses, won't run all of this lot. What you need is a stored
hot water system, probably with a fairly large amount of storage.

If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

That depends on the number of cylinders, as well as the pipework and
head. It would certainly be possible to design and build a system
where the water trickled out of some of the taps if they were all
turned on, but that's not something anyone other than a cowboy would
do.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:35:38 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
wrote this:-

Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
sees in houses, won't run all of this lot. What you need is a stored
hot water system, probably with a fairly large amount of storage.

If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

That depends on the number of cylinders, as well as the pipework and
head. It would certainly be possible to design and build a system
where the water trickled out of some of the taps if they were all
turned on, but that's not something anyone other than a cowboy would
do.

You are missing the point. You can make a stored water system deliver the
required full flow with all taps full on. It will be very big and in a
domestic situation far too large for representative use.

You can do the same with an ionstant watyer heating system, there again far
too large for representative use.

What you wrote was:
"Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one sees in
houses, won't run all of this lot".

Some actually will. However you are not familar with these sort of
installations.

On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:51:40 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
wrote this:-

You are missing the point. You can make a stored water system deliver the
required full flow with all taps full on. It will be very big

Incorrect. It is likely to be larger than one typical size cylinder,
but how large it is depends on the house. Running the same lot with
instant water heaters (aka combination boilers) would involve at
least say five such heaters. A very expensive capital cost for no
gain.

What you wrote was:
"Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one sees in
houses, won't run all of this lot".

Some actually will. However you are not familar with these sort of
installations.

Your assertions about what I am or am not familiar with are mildly
amusing, but they are still incorrect.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 18:51:40 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
wrote this:-

You are missing the point. You can
make a stored water system deliver the
required full flow with all taps full on.
It will be very big

Incorrect. It is likely to be larger than
one typical size cylinder, but how large
it is depends on the house.

That is in effect what I said, so I was correct.

Running the same lot with
instant water heaters (aka combination boilers)
would involve at least say five such heaters.
A very expensive capital cost for no
gain.

The house is two bathroom 3 showers. To get full flow and volume from a
stored water system from "all" taps fully on, and that includes sinks,
basin, etc, it will need to be very big indeed and far more extra expense.
Very large cylinder, or cylinders, large bore pipework all over the place,
etc. In effect a commercial setup. A small hotel would need a system that
can fully cope will all outlets on as guests bath and shower in the morning.
Their usage is very spiky. Domestic systems are designed to cope with
"average" use, so upping it to commercial specs is very expensive for no
gain.

The same applies to instant hot water (not just combis as you said). Banks
of staged multi-points can be used that switch in on water demand. A
commercial setup. Not much to be gained in a domestic house of two baths
and 3 showers for all the extra expense.

What you wrote was:
"Despite what some may claim, instant
water heaters, of the sort one sees in
houses, won't run all of this lot".

Some actually will. However you are
not familar with these sort of
installations.

Your assertions about what I am or
am not familiar with are mildly
amusing, but they are still incorrect.

You are clearly not familiar with instant hot water, otherwise you would not
have written what you did.

On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:55:06 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
wrote this:-

That is in effect what I said, so I was correct.

Nice try, but wrong.

You are clearly not familiar with instant hot water, otherwise you would not
have written what you did.

Nice try, but wrong. I was involved with in instant hot water
heating in buildings with large demands decades ago and I still am
today.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:55:06 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
wrote this:-

That is in effect what I said, so I was correct.

Nice try, but wrong.

Your comprehension is poor. This is sad.

You are clearly not familiar with instant
hot water, otherwise you would not
have written what you did.

Nice try, but wrong. I was involved
with in instant hot water heating in
buildings with large demands decades
ago and I still am today.

Screwing them to the wall and not knowing what is going on is not good
enough.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Read the Boiler Choice FAQ as a starting point.

Don't. It is 20 years out of date.

Bit like your comments, then.

--
*I went to school to become a wit, only got halfway through.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
sees in houses, won't run all of this lot. What you need is a stored
hot water system, probably with a fairly large amount of storage.

If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

You don't understand such things, do you?

Flow from a stored system may be designed to give whatever you want until
it's exhausted - unlike the incoming mains which is fixed.

--
*I can see your point, but I still think you're full of ****.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
A Rinnai multi-point will do the same flow rates as a stored water
system.

Please stop telling lies.

--
*Why do we say something is out of whack? What is a whack?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2006-11-10 08:45:37 +0000, David Hansen
said:

On Thu, 9 Nov 2006 12:55:06 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor Drivel"
wrote this:-

That is in effect what I said, so I was correct.

Nice try, but wrong.

You are clearly not familiar with instant hot water, otherwise you
would not have written what you did.

Nice try, but wrong. I was involved with in instant hot water
heating in buildings with large demands decades ago and I still am
today.

You're a caretaker?

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Despite what some may claim, instant water heaters, of the sort one
sees in houses, won't run all of this lot. What you need is a stored
hot water system, probably with a fairly large amount of storage.

If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

You

Will you please eff off as you are a total idiot.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
A Rinnai multi-point will do the same flow rates as a stored water
system.

Please

Will you please eff off as you are a total idiot.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ews.net,
Doctor Drivel wrote:
Read the Boiler Choice FAQ as a starting point.

Don't. It is 20 years out of date.

Bit

Will you please eff off as you are a total idiot.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:06:14 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor
Drivel" wrote this:-

Nice try, but wrong. I was involved
with in instant hot water heating in
buildings with large demands decades
ago and I still am today.

Screwing them to the wall and not knowing what is going on is not good
enough.

Nice try, but wrong. The equipment concerned was screwed to the
floor and I knew what was going on inside.

Keep digging the hole for yourself.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:22:57 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

You don't understand such things, do you?

That does seem to be the case.

Provided nobody is taken in by this lack of understanding it is just
harmless fun. However, someone might be taken in and waste a lot of
money as a result.


--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:06:14 -0000 someone who may be "Doctor
Drivel" wrote this:-

Nice try, but wrong. I was involved
with in instant hot water heating in
buildings with large demands decades
ago and I still am today.

Screwing them to the wall and not knowing what is going on is not good
enough.

Nice try, but wrong. The equipment concerned was screwed to the
floor and I knew what was going on inside.

Keep digging the hole for yourself.

I'm standing on the hill looking down ion the hole you dig.

"David Hansen" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:22:57 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

You don't understand such things, do you?

That does seem to be the case.

Provided

Aligning up with the uk.d-i-y Lunatic Association (affiliated) chairman is
scraping the barrel.

Just ask me what you need top know and I will fill you in.

In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:22:57 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

You don't understand such things, do you?

That does seem to be the case.

Provided nobody is taken in by this lack of understanding it is just
harmless fun. However, someone might be taken in and waste a lot of
money as a result.

It's the worrying thing. Those who don't know him may be fooled by his
apparent knowledge.

I've just been doing some work in a mate's house some way off so was
staying there. The hot water is provided by a combie in the roof space -
one of dribble's favourite places. And the amount of water wasted in the
kitchen before it runs hot is beyond belief. It's almost quicker to boil a
kettle...

--
*I used to have an open mind but my brains kept falling out *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Hansen wrote:
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:22:57 +0000 (GMT) someone who may be "Dave
Plowman (News)" wrote this:-

If all outlets were on, a stored water system would trickle out too.

You don't understand such things, do you?

That does seem to be the case.

Provided

It's

Will you please eff off as you are a total idiot.