In uk.d-i-y Jules wrote:
On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:31:40 +0000, Duncan Wood wrote:
Although in the case of a fridge the difference in energy effeciency
between a 10yr old one & a modern one makes it uneconomic from either
point of view.

Out of interest, what is it that makes a modern fridge a lot more
efficient than on from say 15 years ago? Better compressor? Better
refrigerant? Better door seals? Better insulation?

'none of the above'?

It varies a lot.
A couple of years ago, I put a meter on a 1980s fridge - and it turned
out that over a week, the energy it used would have qualified for a 'a'
rating.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 11:57:13 -0000, Jules
wrote:

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:31:40 +0000, Duncan Wood wrote:
Although in the case of a fridge the difference in energy effeciency
between a 10yr old one & a modern one makes it uneconomic from either
point of view.

Out of interest, what is it that makes a modern fridge a lot more
efficient than on from say 15 years ago? Better compressor? Better
refrigerant? Better door seals? Better insulation?





Nearly all the above. Being forced to put the running costs per annum on
the sales ticket seems to have heavily influenced what's available.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:10:36 -0000, Ian Stirling
wrote:

In uk.d-i-y Jules wrote:
On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:31:40 +0000, Duncan Wood wrote:
Although in the case of a fridge the difference in energy effeciency
between a 10yr old one & a modern one makes it uneconomic from either
point of view.

Out of interest, what is it that makes a modern fridge a lot more
efficient than on from say 15 years ago? Better compressor? Better
refrigerant? Better door seals? Better insulation?

'none of the above'?

It varies a lot.
A couple of years ago, I put a meter on a 1980s fridge - and it turned
out that over a week, the energy it used would have qualified for a 'a'
rating.


Who made it?

In uk.d-i-y Duncan Wood wrote:
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 18:10:36 -0000, Ian Stirling
wrote:

In uk.d-i-y Jules wrote:
On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:31:40 +0000, Duncan Wood wrote:
Although in the case of a fridge the difference in energy effeciency
between a 10yr old one & a modern one makes it uneconomic from either
point of view.

Out of interest, what is it that makes a modern fridge a lot more
efficient than on from say 15 years ago? Better compressor? Better
refrigerant? Better door seals? Better insulation?

'none of the above'?

It varies a lot.
A couple of years ago, I put a meter on a 1980s fridge - and it turned
out that over a week, the energy it used would have qualified for a 'a'
rating.


Who made it?

Unfortunately, I don't know.
I was surprised at the figures, so I checked them again with a different
power meter, and they matched. I've since disposed of the fridge.

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:18:26 GMT, Tony Bryer
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:57:27 +0000 Owain wrote :
Forget the recovery of the British manufacturing sector - we don't have
the skills and the labour costs are too high.

Wouldn't BMW's success with the Mini suggest otherwise? ISTR reading that
we are now on the point of producing more cars than ever in the UK -
though of course nearly all designed elsewhere.

And oddly enough, some of the individual designers (at BMW for
example) are British. The key thing is the manufacturing, and any
services that can be sold out of the UK. Otherwise we are just pushing
finite money about between ourselvesr. We might as well be in a
virtual reality game.

-- GR

The message . co.uk
from Jules contains these words:

Out of interest, what is it that makes a modern fridge a lot more
efficient than on from say 15 years ago? Better compressor? Better
refrigerant? Better door seals? Better insulation?

Something to stop it short-cycling would help.

--
Skipweasel
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

Owain wrote:
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The answer is simple: Boycott or tax chinese goods.

Followed by massive inflation as the price of consumer goods rises, and
unemployment as retail staff get laid off.

Forget the recovery of the British manufacturing sector - we don't have
the skills and the labour costs are too high.

Thats why we tax the oil and subsidise teh labour.

What skills? Chinese assembly skills are nothing special at all.


Production would probably move to somewhere like Romania - and their
pollution is rather closer to us than China's. At least with China we
only suffer the indirect effects.


Could be no bad thing anyway.

Owain

Jules wrote:
On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:31:40 +0000, Duncan Wood wrote:
Although in the case of a fridge the difference in energy effeciency
between a 10yr old one & a modern one makes it uneconomic from either
point of view.

Out of interest, what is it that makes a modern fridge a lot more
efficient than on from say 15 years ago? Better compressor? Better
refrigerant? Better door seals? Better insulation?



Better insulation mostly.

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Gropius Riftwynde wrote:
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:24:41 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 18:41:56 on Thu, 9 Nov 2006,
Andy Hall remarked:
when the Chinese are opening a new coal fired power roughly weekly,
discussions about flying rather than taking the train are out of scale.
It's worse than that. One of the many deliverables of the sort of
conferences I travel to is better information about what's happening
inside China. And without that, we can't hope to influence them into
being better neighbours (if indeed we agree that creating too much
CO2 makes them a bad neighbour).
Indeed so. Whatever savings we make are going to be dwarfed by the
stuff that China will put into the atmosphere. Oddly enough, this is
something that our own authorities don't mention. You would think that
global warming could be cured by Western Europe (and eventually
America) simply putting things in green bins and smiling smugly.
-- GR

The answer is simple: Boycott or tax chinese goods.

Like the one that's just arrived at Felixtowe?

Biggest container ship in the world, full of tat for brits for xmas


--
geoff

On 2006-11-10 20:24:10 +0000, raden said:

In message , The Natural
Philosopher writes
Gropius Riftwynde wrote:
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:24:41 +0000, Roland Perry
wrote:

In message , at 18:41:56 on Thu, 9 Nov 2006, Andy
Hall remarked:
when the Chinese are opening a new coal fired power roughly weekly,
discussions about flying rather than taking the train are out of scale.
It's worse than that. One of the many deliverables of the sort of
conferences I travel to is better information about what's happening
inside China. And without that, we can't hope to influence them into
being better neighbours (if indeed we agree that creating too much CO2
makes them a bad neighbour).
Indeed so. Whatever savings we make are going to be dwarfed by the
stuff that China will put into the atmosphere. Oddly enough, this is
something that our own authorities don't mention. You would think that
global warming could be cured by Western Europe (and eventually
America) simply putting things in green bins and smiling smugly.
-- GR

The answer is simple: Boycott or tax chinese goods.

Like the one that's just arrived at Felixtowe?

Biggest container ship in the world, full of tat for brits for xmas

At least the final leg for delivery will be a relatively short one...

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:41:42 +0000 Andy Hall wrote :
The answer is simple: Boycott or tax chinese goods.

Like the one that's just arrived at Felixtowe?

Biggest container ship in the world, full of tat for brits for xmas

At least the final leg for delivery will be a relatively short one...

"If you look at the transport cost per individual item, it costs about
$10 to send a tv set from China to the UK, or 10 cents to deliver a
bottle of wine from Australia to America.

"It costs less to ship a container between China and Felixstowe than it
does to then send it on the road to Scotland," says Philip Damas,
research director at shipping consultancy Drewry."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4943382.stm

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

In message , Tony Bryer
writes
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:41:42 +0000 Andy Hall wrote :
The answer is simple: Boycott or tax chinese goods.

Like the one that's just arrived at Felixtowe?

Biggest container ship in the world, full of tat for brits for xmas

At least the final leg for delivery will be a relatively short one...

"If you look at the transport cost per individual item, it costs about
$10 to send a tv set from China to the UK, or 10 cents to deliver a
bottle of wine from Australia to America.

It's still a serious amount of landfill, wherever it ends up

--
geoff

On 2006-11-11 20:44:47 +0000, Tony Bryer said:

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:41:42 +0000 Andy Hall wrote :
The answer is simple: Boycott or tax chinese goods.

Like the one that's just arrived at Felixtowe?

Biggest container ship in the world, full of tat for brits for xmas

At least the final leg for delivery will be a relatively short one...

"If you look at the transport cost per individual item, it costs about
$10 to send a tv set from China to the UK, or 10 cents to deliver a
bottle of wine from Australia to America.
"It costs less to ship a container between China and Felixstowe than it
does to then send it on the road to Scotland," says Philip Damas,
research director at shipping consultancy Drewry."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4943382.stm

I meant that the distance travelled is unlikely to be more than 20
miles from Felixstowe..... ;-)

Andy Hall wrote:
On 2006-11-11 20:44:47 +0000, Tony Bryer said:

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:41:42 +0000 Andy Hall wrote :
The answer is simple: Boycott or tax chinese goods.

Like the one that's just arrived at Felixtowe?

Biggest container ship in the world, full of tat for brits for xmas

At least the final leg for delivery will be a relatively short one...

"If you look at the transport cost per individual item, it costs about
$10 to send a tv set from China to the UK, or 10 cents to deliver a
bottle of wine from Australia to America.
"It costs less to ship a container between China and Felixstowe than
it does to then send it on the road to Scotland," says Philip Damas,
research director at shipping consultancy Drewry."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4943382.stm

I meant that the distance travelled is unlikely to be more than 20 miles
from Felixstowe..... ;-)


Why?

In message , at 23:35:41 on
Sat, 11 Nov 2006, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
Biggest container ship in the world, full of tat for brits for xmas

At least the final leg for delivery will be a relatively short one...

"If you look at the transport cost per individual item, it costs
about $10 to send a tv set from China to the UK, or 10 cents to
deliver a bottle of wine from Australia to America.
"It costs less to ship a container between China and Felixstowe than
it does to then send it on the road to Scotland," says Philip Damas,
research director at shipping consultancy Drewry."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4943382.stm
I meant that the distance travelled is unlikely to be more than 20
miles from Felixstowe..... ;-)

Why?

I expect he's trying a backhanded insult against the good folk of
Suffolk, they being the people who mainly live within 20 miles (by road)
from Felixstowe...
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 23:35:41 on
Sat, 11 Nov 2006, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
Biggest container ship in the world, full of tat for brits for xmas

At least the final leg for delivery will be a relatively short one...

"If you look at the transport cost per individual item, it costs
about $10 to send a tv set from China to the UK, or 10 cents to
deliver a bottle of wine from Australia to America.
"It costs less to ship a container between China and Felixstowe than
it does to then send it on the road to Scotland," says Philip Damas,
research director at shipping consultancy Drewry."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4943382.stm
I meant that the distance travelled is unlikely to be more than 20
miles from Felixstowe..... ;-)

Why?

I expect he's trying a backhanded insult against the good folk of
Suffolk, they being the people who mainly live within 20 miles (by road)
from Felixstowe...

Not I sir! A good 45 miles..and why would he assume that is the only
place tat would go..Essex mebbe ;-)

On 2006-11-12 12:32:41 +0000, The Natural Philosopher said:

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , at 23:35:41 on
Sat, 11 Nov 2006, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
Biggest container ship in the world, full of tat for brits for xmas

At least the final leg for delivery will be a relatively short one...

"If you look at the transport cost per individual item, it costs about
$10 to send a tv set from China to the UK, or 10 cents to deliver a
bottle of wine from Australia to America.
"It costs less to ship a container between China and Felixstowe than it
does to then send it on the road to Scotland," says Philip Damas,
research director at shipping consultancy Drewry."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4943382.stm
I meant that the distance travelled is unlikely to be more than 20
miles from Felixstowe..... ;-)

Why?

I expect he's trying a backhanded insult against the good folk of
Suffolk, they being the people who mainly live within 20 miles (by
road) from Felixstowe...

Not I sir! A good 45 miles..and why would he assume that is the only
place tat would go..Essex mebbe ;-)

Might have been.... ;-)

In message , at 12:32:41 on Sun,
12 Nov 2006, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
I expect he's trying a backhanded insult against the good folk of
Suffolk, they being the people who mainly live within 20 miles (by
road) from Felixstowe...

Not I sir! A good 45 miles..and why would he assume that is the only
place tat would go..Essex mebbe ;-)

Whoosh!
--
Roland Perry

In message , Roland Perry
writes
In message , at 23:35:41 on
Sat, 11 Nov 2006, The Natural Philosopher remarked:
Biggest container ship in the world, full of tat for brits for xmas

At least the final leg for delivery will be a relatively short one...

"If you look at the transport cost per individual item, it costs
about $10 to send a tv set from China to the UK, or 10 cents to
deliver a bottle of wine from Australia to America.
"It costs less to ship a container between China and Felixstowe
than it does to then send it on the road to Scotland," says Philip
Damas, research director at shipping consultancy Drewry."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4943382.stm
I meant that the distance travelled is unlikely to be more than 20
miles from Felixstowe..... ;-)

Why?

I expect he's trying a backhanded insult against the good folk of
Suffolk, they being the people who mainly live within 20 miles (by
road) from Felixstowe...

Is "Standard for Suffolk" the equivalent of "Normal for Norfolk" ?

--
geoff