Hi All,

Yet more advice needed, I'm afraid, for the bumbling DIY newbies...

We're about to renovate the sash window in the room we've chosen to do
first, and I wanted to ask some questions and solicite some advice...

I've done a fair bit of reading, both of the posts to uk.d-i-y and
websites such as sash-style, but there doesn't seem to be much
information about painting. We'd like to use a water-based paint if
possible, but I suspect this won't be a very good solution for the
exterior surfaces - are there any water-based paints that would do?

Part of the reason that we're gong for a full-on removal of the sashes
and renovation/repaint is that the paint on the outer cill started
flaking pretty much as soon as I touched it, and has come off in large
chunks. The wood underneath looks damp, but actually feels OK and
gives only a little to the corner of a stripping knife (pretty much
exactly as I'd expect any wood to). Will it be OK to just paint over,
or will I need to treat it somehow?

The current window has a hinging system in place, similar to the
'Simplex' system outlined on the Mighton website, and I'd like to
renovate that too, if possible. I think the hinges and fittings are
all brass (consists of two hinges, to screws in the sash frame, a
thumbscrew to release the RHS staff bead and a 'clutch' for the sash
cord) - what's the easiest way to strip the over-enthusiastic painting
off them?

Although I've got a hundred more questions, I'll keep it to that for
the moment!

Thanks for any help - Adam...

In article , Adam
writes
I've done a fair bit of reading, both of the posts to uk.d-i-y and
websites such as sash-style, but there doesn't seem to be much
information about painting. We'd like to use a water-based paint if
possible, but I suspect this won't be a very good solution for the
exterior surfaces - are there any water-based paints that would do?
I've not got on well with water based paints in this role. When fully
renovating sliding sash windows I've taken out the sashes, burnt off the old
paint with a heat gun (not near the glass , sanded the crust down to bare
wood and painted on two coats of microporous paint (no primer!). The finish
is superb and is breathable so it lasts a long time. An example of this type
is International brand Ranch Paint. The drawback is that the sashes will be
out for at least 2days to let both coats dry fully 16hrs each + then some
but it is worth it. I block off the opening with a board while this is going on..
Also rub a candle down the mating face of sash & parting bead to reduce
sticking.

Part of the reason that we're gong for a full-on removal of the sashes
and renovation/repaint is that the paint on the outer cill started
flaking pretty much as soon as I touched it, and has come off in large
chunks. The wood underneath looks damp, but actually feels OK and
gives only a little to the corner of a stripping knife (pretty much
exactly as I'd expect any wood to). Will it be OK to just paint over,
or will I need to treat it somehow?
You could really do with drying this out, but I reckon that is not going to
happen. Suggest you take it back to bare wood then apply one coat only
of Ranch Paint. That will hopefully stop further moisture getting in but may
let moisture from the wood breath out. Don't be surprised if this is too
much for the paint & the moisture causes it to fail prematurely, just byte
the bullet & repeat the cycle. Hopefully it will be ok after a couple of
iterations, then apply 2 coats of same. btw; I suppose you could give the
bare wood a blast with a fan heater for a few hours before painting, but I
think that will only remove moisture near the surface, and deep seated stuff
will surface later, but it wouldn't hurt.

The current window has a hinging system in place, similar to the
'Simplex' system outlined on the Mighton website, and I'd like to
renovate that too, if possible. I think the hinges and fittings are
all brass (consists of two hinges, to screws in the sash frame, a
thumbscrew to release the RHS staff bead and a 'clutch' for the sash
cord) - what's the easiest way to strip the over-enthusiastic painting
off them?
Don't have much time for those systems as I can clean the windows by
sliding them one over the other & sitting on the window ledge (if you can
picture that). The hinging systems IMO are just extra places for draughts
to get in. I make mine easy to remove by securing the staff beads with
brass screws and screw cups, 5mins to remove, but I don't really have a
need to. If you want to keep them then just soak in paint stripper to recover
former glory but def replace the staff (& parting) beads, they are dead
cheap & can be got from Jewsons and the like. Replacing these make the
windows look like new.

Although I've got a hundred more questions, I'll keep it to that for
the moment!
Your next question is "How do I draughtproof sash windows" and I claim
my 5 pounds :-)

HTH
--
fred

"stuart noble" wrote in message ...
Adam wrote in message
Part of the reason that we're gong for a full-on removal of the sashes
and renovation/repaint is that the paint on the outer cill started
flaking pretty much as soon as I touched it, and has come off in large
chunks. The wood underneath looks damp, but actually feels OK and
gives only a little to the corner of a stripping knife (pretty much
exactly as I'd expect any wood to). Will it be OK to just paint over,
or will I need to treat it somehow?
The best treatment I've found is fibreglass resin (Halfords). Takes a while
to go off, so it has plenty of time to penetrate, and gives you the perfect
surface for painting. That "damp", grey colour doesn't take paint well

Thanks Stuart, I'll have a look down at Halfords for this. I assume
this just sits on top of the wood - will the damp be able to escape?
What paint would be best for the resin surface?

Cheers - Adam...

Adam wrote in message
Thanks Stuart, I'll have a look down at Halfords for this. I assume
this just sits on top of the wood
No, it penetrates. Very thin in consistency and takes several hours to cure,
especially in cool weather. You end up with a "wet" look but no film on the
surface.
will the damp be able to escape?
The idea is that the damp won't get in to start with. This stuff really does
impregnate old wood and turn it into a semi plastic but, overpainted, it
looks exactly like wood. Ronseal used to market it as "wood hardener" at
some ridiculous price.
What paint would be best for the resin surface?
Any paint takes well. I used water based primer and an oil based topcoat.
You'll notice the difference in applying it when there is no suction from
the wood. The danger is that it makes the untreated areas look drab by
comparison.

fred wrote in message ...
In article , Adam
writes

Thanks for the fast response, Fred...

I think I'll try Stuart's fibreglass resin suggestion first...
Fair enough, I notice now that you said it appeared dry.

It does seem to be. I tried prodding it with the corner of a
stripping knife, and it *appears* to be sound to. It just has that
darkened, almost grey look that wet wood takes on...

I'm planning on using the draught-proofing parting bead from Mighton,
but I'll definitely go out and look for new staff beads. Ours have a
few chunks out of them in any case...
This outfit might help if you need brush seals for those other little draughty
bits:
http://www.ifpsl.com/imply,.htm

Hmmm. Looks very similar to the Mighton offering. The parting bead
in our windows is around 12mm wide (measured fairly crudely - I'm
buying some decent calipers tonight) and nearly 14mm wide at the base
- although if it's been as well smothered with paint as the rest of
the window, this may translate to only around 12mm! I guess this
means the slot in which it sits is around 12mm wide too, and the
requirement for the might bead is a slot 8.5mm wide.

The big advantage that stands out with the ifpsl stuff is that they
supply a carrier for their parting bead, which can be screwed into the
slot left by the old parting bead. This may be much easier than using
mastic or similar if the slot is too wide (as it seems to be with our
windows).

Do you have any experience with ifpsl? Could they get the stuff to us
in time (if you get to see my message in time, also!)? - Mighton at
least will promise next day delivery...

Although I've got a hundred more questions, I'll keep it to that for
the moment!
Your next question is "How do I draughtproof sash windows" and I claim
my 5 pounds :-)

Sorry, as indicated above, going for the draught-proofing solution
from Mighton, so I wasn't going to ask that question!
Wot no fiver ;-)

No, sorry mate. Besides, any spare fivers are all already earmarked -
it's an expensive business, this DIY lark!!

Thanks for the advice! Any more will be gratefully accepted...
Good luck.

Thanks - I'll post results when it's done.

Cheers - Adam...

Adam wrote in message
The big advantage that stands out with the ifpsl stuff is that they
supply a carrier for their parting bead, which can be screwed into the
slot left by the old parting bead. This may be much easier than using
mastic or similar if the slot is too wide (as it seems to be with our
windows).
That looks a very useful product. One of the major probs with renovating
sliding sashes is that if you strip all the paint off the top one you end up
with a big gap between the parting bead and the outside edge of the box.
Short of moving the groove or thickening the exposed part of the bead, there
ain't a lot you can do except put up with the rattles and draughts.
I have my doubts about the top and bottom seals. All the flexi polymer
things I've tried have ended up permanently flattened when kept under
pressure for weeks at a time in the winter. IME the only thing guaranteed to
keep its springiness is a hollow silicone bead (can't remember who makes
them) but the slot to take it can't be routed into existing frames.
I think if you solve the parting bead problem and the staff beads on the
inside are carefully positioned you can eliminate most of the draughts and
rattles. Also, too many retro fit seals on old windows look a bit naff IMO.