I,ve got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue? smalls and looks the same!! I could
do with using it to glue the edges of the 22mm chip flooring. On that
subject, I have measured a way to have the boards short edges sitting
on a joist for the entire span, it will mean leaving a 25mm gap at the
first wall for expansion insteat of the recommended 10mm, I suppose I
could just fill the gap with sommat or put a fillet in there.

Staffbull wrote:
I've got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue?

It is. Bottle it in fairy liquid containers or similar. It keeps a very
long time out of the air and frost. It might skim over in an opened
large can.

I have measured a way to have the [floor]boards short edges sitting
on a joist for the entire span, it will mean leaving a 25mm gap at the
first wall for expansion instead of the recommended 10mm, I suppose I
could just fill the gap with sommat or put a fillet in there.

IIRC the boards are 600mm wide. So cut a fillet to the second joist
leaving the 10 mm gap. Put thick rubber foam in the gap and bring it up
behind the skirting an inch or so (the plasterboard reaching down to
it.)

You might want to tack that in place, no-one ever does. But it would
make fitting the skirting a lot easier.

Weatherlawyer wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
I've got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue?

It is. Bottle it in fairy liquid containers or similar. It keeps a very
long time out of the air and frost. It might skim over in an opened
large can.

I've oft wondered the same thing myself; however are you sure? Eg, if
you take a look at one supplier - Screwfix - the dearest version of
'PVA' appears to be this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...99494&id=33245
working out at 15.24 GBP/litre; whereas this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...79239&ts=99724
comes in at only 1.40 GBP/litre. That's a big difference to account for
a cute brand name and some economies of scale.

David

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:15:17 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Weatherlawyer wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
I've got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue?

It is. Bottle it in fairy liquid containers or similar. It keeps a very
long time out of the air and frost. It might skim over in an opened
large can.

I've oft wondered the same thing myself; however are you sure? Eg, if
you take a look at one supplier - Screwfix - the dearest version of
'PVA' appears to be this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...99494&id=33245
working out at 15.24 GBP/litre; whereas this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...79239&ts=99724
comes in at only 1.40 GBP/litre. That's a big difference to account for
a cute brand name and some economies of scale.

David

And this
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/...=22952&x=8&y=9
is £3.58 a litre .


Stuart

Stuart wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:15:17 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Weatherlawyer wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
I've got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue?
It is. Bottle it in fairy liquid containers or similar. It keeps a very
long time out of the air and frost. It might skim over in an opened
large can.
I've oft wondered the same thing myself; however are you sure? Eg, if
you take a look at one supplier - Screwfix - the dearest version of
'PVA' appears to be this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...99494&id=33245
working out at 15.24 GBP/litre; whereas this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...79239&ts=99724
comes in at only 1.40 GBP/litre. That's a big difference to account for
a cute brand name and some economies of scale.


And this
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/...=22952&x=8&y=9
is £3.58 a litre .

That product, marketed as glue, ostensibly might be considered identical
to the 1.40/litre stuff I mentioned: however if you look at the COSHH
sheets on the Screwfix listings, apparently the glue version also
contains aluminium chloride. FWIW - no idea what the significance of
that is!

David

Stuart wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:15:17 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Weatherlawyer wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
I've got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering
if it is the same as normal PVA woodglue?

It is. Bottle it in fairy liquid containers or similar. It keeps a
very long time out of the air and frost. It might skim over in an
opened large can.

I've oft wondered the same thing myself; however are you sure? Eg,
if you take a look at one supplier - Screwfix - the dearest version
of 'PVA' appears to be this one:

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...99494&id=33245
working out at 15.24 GBP/litre; whereas this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...79239&ts=99724
comes in at only 1.40 GBP/litre. That's a big difference to account
for a cute brand name and some economies of scale.

David

And this

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/...nid=J43G5UHJKX
PAWCSTHZPCFFI?_dyncharset=UTF-8&howMany=15&searchText=22952&x=8&y=9
is £3.58 a litre .


Stuart

Dont know about other brands,but the evo-stick wood glue and evo-bond PVA
are both the same.

I should know..the fire surrond I built was glued together with evo-bond
PVA and I hit a knot with the router on lower back rail and it shattered
the wood,so had to replace that section and was a bugger trying to seperate
what was left of the back rail from the left and right upright post.
In the end had chop out as much to the joints as possible and use a chisle
to get the remains off. :-(

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Staffbull wrote:

I,ve got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue?

No, but not enough difference to notice. It's certainly usable.

Make sure you keep it frost free.

wrote:
Staffbull wrote:

I,ve got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue?

No, but not enough difference to notice. It's certainly usable.

Make sure you keep it frost free.

So what if anything is the difference between different brands of PVA?


NT

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:41:51 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Stuart wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 12:15:17 GMT, Lobster
wrote:

Weatherlawyer wrote:
Staffbull wrote:
I've got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue?
It is. Bottle it in fairy liquid containers or similar. It keeps a very
long time out of the air and frost. It might skim over in an opened
large can.
I've oft wondered the same thing myself; however are you sure? Eg, if
you take a look at one supplier - Screwfix - the dearest version of
'PVA' appears to be this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...99494&id=33245
working out at 15.24 GBP/litre; whereas this one:
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...79239&ts=99724
comes in at only 1.40 GBP/litre. That's a big difference to account for
a cute brand name and some economies of scale.


And this
http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/sea/...=22952&x=8&y=9
is £3.58 a litre .

That product, marketed as glue, ostensibly might be considered identical
to the 1.40/litre stuff I mentioned: however if you look at the COSHH
sheets on the Screwfix listings, apparently the glue version also
contains aluminium chloride. FWIW - no idea what the significance of
that is!

David

I have a large container of builders pva that bought from a BM a while back and
the label says it can also be used as wood glue


Stuart

Staffbull wrote:
I,ve got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue? smalls and looks the same!! I could
do with using it to glue the edges of the 22mm chip flooring. On that
subject, I have measured a way to have the boards short edges sitting
on a joist for the entire span, it will mean leaving a 25mm gap at the
first wall for expansion insteat of the recommended 10mm, I suppose I
could just fill the gap with sommat or put a fillet in there.

Cheers gent's, just what I wanted to hear :-)

wrote:
wrote:
Staffbull wrote:

I,ve got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue?

No, but not enough difference to notice. It's certainly usable.

Make sure you keep it frost free.

So what if anything is the difference between different brands of PVA?

From this thread a chemical analysis seems to be the price.

Stuart wrote:

I have a large container of builders pva that bought from a BM a
while back and the label says it can also be used as wood glue



Just as well as I have been using a 6l tub of the stuff I got from Wicks as
glue for a while now.

It sticks just the same as other PVA glue I have used AFAICT.

Its not water proof though.

wrote:
wrote:
Staffbull wrote:

I,ve got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue?
No, but not enough difference to notice. It's certainly usable.

Make sure you keep it frost free.

So what if anything is the difference between different brands of PVA?


Very little. Some builders PVA may be far more dilute though - so its
half water if you like..
NT

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
Staffbull wrote:

I,ve got nearly 5lt of builders PVA (Cementone) and am wondering if it
is the same as normal PVA woodglue?
No, but not enough difference to notice. It's certainly usable.

Make sure you keep it frost free.

So what if anything is the difference between different brands of PVA?


Very little. Some builders PVA may be far more dilute though - so its
half water if you like..
NT


I bought 500ml in the pound shop, mainly because I needed the nice clean
spout. Same consistency as EvoStik and the rest, but that isn't always
an indication of solids content.

Stuart wrote:
I have a large container of builders pva that bought from a BM a while back and
the label says it can also be used as wood glue


Stuart

Mine too, althoguh it does say to thin with water for glueing wood.

wrote:

So what if anything is the difference between different brands of PVA?

Concentration and components. In particular the woodworking-specific
white PVA glues are often a mix of PVA and aliphatic resins (the
"yellow glues"). You may also find additives to reduce "chalking"
(poor performance at low temperature), to reduce the quick drying when
exposed to air in an open bottle, borax to improve initial tack, or PVA
(polyvinyl alcohol this time) to make a "finer" and less viscous glue
for modelmaking.

Builders' PVA has none of these - it's just plain cheap PVA. Sometimes
there are anti-frost additives.

I normally use hide glue for woodworking. When I use PVA it's either
Titebond II or cheap builders' PVA for biscuits and some veneering
(applied cold, dried then hot pressed)

wrote:
wrote:

So what if anything is the difference between different brands of PVA?

Concentration and components. In particular the woodworking-specific
white PVA glues are often a mix of PVA and aliphatic resins (the
"yellow glues"). You may also find additives to reduce "chalking"
(poor performance at low temperature), to reduce the quick drying when
exposed to air in an open bottle, borax to improve initial tack, or PVA
(polyvinyl alcohol this time) to make a "finer" and less viscous glue
for modelmaking.

Builders' PVA has none of these - it's just plain cheap PVA. Sometimes
there are anti-frost additives.

I normally use hide glue for woodworking. When I use PVA it's either
Titebond II or cheap builders' PVA for biscuits and some veneering
(applied cold, dried then hot pressed)

thanks for a good explanation there.

I tested some cheap by-the-gallon PVA on wood a couple of days ago,
stuck 2 strips together (without clamping them) and after a couple of
days whacked them over a stone till something broke to see what the
comparative strengths of wood and pva were, and test the glue to wood
bond. I was surprised to find it behaved as well as I could expect any
standard wood glue to do, in some areas the glue gave way and in some
it was the wood that gave first. From now on I'll use the basic PVA
when theres no need for moisture resistance, which is the one thing it
clearly cant handle.


NT

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:

So what if anything is the difference between different brands of PVA?

Concentration and components. In particular the woodworking-specific
white PVA glues are often a mix of PVA and aliphatic resins (the
"yellow glues"). You may also find additives to reduce "chalking"
(poor performance at low temperature), to reduce the quick drying when
exposed to air in an open bottle, borax to improve initial tack, or PVA
(polyvinyl alcohol this time) to make a "finer" and less viscous glue
for modelmaking.

Builders' PVA has none of these - it's just plain cheap PVA. Sometimes
there are anti-frost additives.

I normally use hide glue for woodworking. When I use PVA it's either
Titebond II or cheap builders' PVA for biscuits and some veneering
(applied cold, dried then hot pressed)

thanks for a good explanation there.

I tested some cheap by-the-gallon PVA on wood a couple of days ago,
stuck 2 strips together (without clamping them) and after a couple of
days whacked them over a stone till something broke to see what the
comparative strengths of wood and pva were, and test the glue to wood
bond. I was surprised to find it behaved as well as I could expect any
standard wood glue to do, in some areas the glue gave way and in some
it was the wood that gave first. From now on I'll use the basic PVA
when theres no need for moisture resistance, which is the one thing it
clearly cant handle.


NT

thanks for the experiment!! it's being used today to put the bedroom
floor down :-)

wrote:

I was surprised to find it behaved as well as I could expect any
standard wood glue to do,

PVA is strong and there's almost nothing an additive can do to improve
this. The additives make it more usable, not stronger.