Hi everyone,

I have a Glow-worm room-sealed boiler ("Ultimate 60FF") which is using
up valuable space in my small kitchen, which I am therefore hoping to
move. A plumber friend of ours suggested it could be moved onto the
outside wall of the house, enclosed in a waterproof wooden box, with a
frost protection thermostat to prevent the unit getting too cold. This
sounds like a good idea, though I have a couple of reservations, which
I was hoping someone might be able to help with!

1. The boiler manual states that if the boiler is enclosed in a
compartment, high and low level ventilation must be provided. If I do
this, I'm guessing it will make the air temperature inside the box very
cold in winter. During night-times (when the boiler would generally be
timed off), would there be a danger of the frost protection thermostat
turning on very frequently, and increasing my gas bills enormously?

2. If I ignore the Glow-worm recommendation of ventilating the box, and
instead completely enclose the boiler, and add extra insulation (in
order to keep the box as warm as possible in winter), would there then
be a danger of the boiler getting too HOT in summer?

Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!

On 24 Aug 2006 05:13:54 -0700 Steve H wrote :
I have a Glow-worm room-sealed boiler ("Ultimate 60FF") which is using
up valuable space in my small kitchen, which I am therefore hoping to
move. A plumber friend of ours suggested it could be moved onto the
outside wall of the house, enclosed in a waterproof wooden box, with a
frost protection thermostat to prevent the unit getting too cold. This
sounds like a good idea, though I have a couple of reservations, which
I was hoping someone might be able to help with!

In principle I can't see why you can't do this, though I'd prefer the
boiler inside. What happens if it fails during a spell of freezing
weather?

At Interbuild I got a Worcester-Bosch mag which included tales from the
field. On one warranty call the engineer was surprised by the boiler
location. "But", said the householder, "the instructions said it had to
go on an outside wall"

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

He-he! Thanks for your reply Tony.

Steve H wrote:
Hi everyone,

I have a Glow-worm room-sealed boiler ("Ultimate 60FF") which is using
up valuable space in my small kitchen, which I am therefore hoping to
move. A plumber friend of ours suggested it could be moved onto the
outside wall of the house, enclosed in a waterproof wooden box, with a
frost protection thermostat to prevent the unit getting too cold. This
sounds like a good idea, though I have a couple of reservations, which
I was hoping someone might be able to help with!

1. The boiler manual states that if the boiler is enclosed in a
compartment, high and low level ventilation must be provided. If I do
this, I'm guessing it will make the air temperature inside the box very
cold in winter. During night-times (when the boiler would generally be
timed off), would there be a danger of the frost protection thermostat
turning on very frequently, and increasing my gas bills enormously?

2. If I ignore the Glow-worm recommendation of ventilating the box, and
instead completely enclose the boiler, and add extra insulation (in
order to keep the box as warm as possible in winter), would there then
be a danger of the boiler getting too HOT in summer?

Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!

I would be wary of this. I have had the infamous problems on my
Potterton Suprima which are supposedly caused by the pcb overheating.
Boilers do kick out a lot of heat from the box directly (not just into
the water), so any sort of insulated box might start causing expensive
electrical problems.

That's interesting to hear. Especially when Glow-worm told me there was
no real upper limit to the air temperature the boiler could operate in
- I must admit, I was dubious at the time!. Thanks for the warning,
Mark.

"Steve H" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi everyone,

I have a Glow-worm room-sealed boiler ("Ultimate 60FF") which is using
up valuable space in my small kitchen, which I am therefore hoping to
move. A plumber friend of ours suggested it could be moved onto the
outside wall of the house, enclosed in a waterproof wooden box, with a
frost protection thermostat to prevent the unit getting too cold. This
sounds like a good idea, though I have a couple of reservations, which
I was hoping someone might be able to help with!

1. The boiler manual states that if the boiler is enclosed in a
compartment, high and low level ventilation must be provided. If I do
this, I'm guessing it will make the air temperature inside the box very
cold in winter. During night-times (when the boiler would generally be
timed off), would there be a danger of the frost protection thermostat
turning on very frequently, and increasing my gas bills enormously?

2. If I ignore the Glow-worm recommendation of ventilating the box, and
instead completely enclose the boiler, and add extra insulation (in
order to keep the box as warm as possible in winter), would there then
be a danger of the boiler getting too HOT in summer?

Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!


Many people are fitting boilers in the loft these days.

Is this a possibility?

Tony

Cheers Tony - the loft could actually be an option - yes. I suppose my
main concern would again be the fact in winter the loft gets pretty
cold, and so the boiler would still need a frost protection thermostat:
do you think this would add a lot to my gas bill, or would it be
negligible?

On 24 Aug 2006 08:32:58 -0700, "Steve H" wrote:

|Cheers Tony - the loft could actually be an option - yes. I suppose my
|main concern would again be the fact in winter the loft gets pretty
|cold, and so the boiler would still need a frost protection thermostat:
|do you think this would add a lot to my gas bill, or would it be
|negligible?

Lofts also get stinking hot in the summer, worth checking that it will work
at high temperatures.
--
Dave Fawthrop dave hyphenologist co uk Google Groups is IME the *worst*
method of accessing usenet. GG subscribers would be well advised get a
newsreader, say Agent, and a newsserver, say news.individual.net. These
will allow them: to see only *new* posts, a killfile, and other goodies.

Thanks for your thoughts Dave - that's a good point about the loft
getting hot. Definately something that would need investigation.

In an earlier contribution to this discussion,
Steve H wrote:

Hi everyone,

I have a Glow-worm room-sealed boiler ("Ultimate 60FF") which is using
up valuable space in my small kitchen, which I am therefore hoping to
move. A plumber friend of ours suggested it could be moved onto the
outside wall of the house, enclosed in a waterproof wooden box, with a
frost protection thermostat to prevent the unit getting too cold. This
sounds like a good idea, though I have a couple of reservations, which
I was hoping someone might be able to help with!

1. The boiler manual states that if the boiler is enclosed in a
compartment, high and low level ventilation must be provided. If I do
this, I'm guessing it will make the air temperature inside the box
very cold in winter. During night-times (when the boiler would
generally be timed off), would there be a danger of the frost
protection thermostat turning on very frequently, and increasing my
gas bills enormously?

2. If I ignore the Glow-worm recommendation of ventilating the box,
and instead completely enclose the boiler, and add extra insulation
(in order to keep the box as warm as possible in winter), would there
then be a danger of the boiler getting too HOT in summer?

Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!


How about this for an idea. Put the boiler in a fully-enclosed insulated
box, but with some ventillation flaps that can be opened by a motor (or
maybe just by air pressure) and have a thermostatically controlled fan which
blasts air through it when it gets too hot.
--
Cheers,
Roger
______
Email address maintained for newsgroup use only, and not regularly
monitored.. Messages sent to it may not be read for several weeks.
PLEASE REPLY TO NEWSGROUP!

Steve H wrote:
Hi everyone,

I have a Glow-worm room-sealed boiler ("Ultimate 60FF") which is using
up valuable space in my small kitchen, which I am therefore hoping to
move. A plumber friend of ours suggested it could be moved onto the
outside wall of the house, enclosed in a waterproof wooden box, with a
frost protection thermostat to prevent the unit getting too cold. This
sounds like a good idea, though I have a couple of reservations, which
I was hoping someone might be able to help with!

1. The boiler manual states that if the boiler is enclosed in a
compartment, high and low level ventilation must be provided. If I do
this, I'm guessing it will make the air temperature inside the box
very cold in winter. During night-times (when the boiler would
generally be timed off), would there be a danger of the frost
protection thermostat turning on very frequently, and increasing my
gas bills enormously?

2. If I ignore the Glow-worm recommendation of ventilating the box,
and instead completely enclose the boiler, and add extra insulation
(in order to keep the box as warm as possible in winter), would there
then be a danger of the boiler getting too HOT in summer?

Any help anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!

I cant believe you have nowhere else to site the boiler in the house?

ie under the stairs,bathroom,upstairs landing?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

wrote:

I would be wary of this. I have had the infamous problems on my
Potterton Suprima which are supposedly caused by the pcb overheating.
Boilers do kick out a lot of heat from the box directly (not just into
the water), so any sort of insulated box might start causing expensive
electrical problems.

You could have one of those automatic greenhouse opening vent things to
pop open a vent if temp got a bit warm perhaps?


--
http://gymratz.co.uk - Best Gym Equipment & Bodybuilding Supplements UK.
http://trade-price-supplements.co.uk - TRADE PRICED SUPPLEMENTS for ALL!
http://fitness-equipment-uk.com - UK's No.1 Fitness Equipment Suppliers.
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"Steve H" wrote in message
oups.com...
Cheers Tony - the loft could actually be an option - yes. I suppose my
main concern would again be the fact in winter the loft gets pretty
cold, and so the boiler would still need a frost protection thermostat:
do you think this would add a lot to my gas bill, or would it be
negligible?


First: my boiler is 'outside'. Like you ; I didn't want to have the boiler
in the kitchen occupying valuable real-estate in the small U-shaped room.
The position of doors windows and hob meant we needed all the cabinet space
we could accommodate.
In my case the boiler is located in a former 'outside' toilet. The space is
used to store garden tools as well as the boiler. provision of gas,
electrics, gravity feed (28mm) pipes along with the CH 22mm pipes was
'merely' a question of drilling appropriate holes through the wall between
the kitchen and the toilet.
Second: AIUI, if the boiler is in the loft, safe access _must_ be provided
for any serviceman you hi these requirements include (but may not be
limited to) a safe access ladder; Railing around the roof hatch, boarded
footway to the boiler's location and natural daylight (Velux); { A
near-neighbour went through this process} as well as a roof piercing exhaust
pipe.

--

Brian

How about this for an idea. Put the boiler in a fully-enclosed insulated
box, but with some ventillation flaps that can be opened by a motor (or
maybe just by air pressure) and have a thermostatically controlled fan which
blasts air through it when it gets too hot.

Hi Roger - thanks for your thoughts. Those are pretty good ideas
actually... if I did manage to achieve all this my boiler compartment
would be a technological work of art!

I cant believe you have nowhere else to site the boiler in the house?
ie under the stairs,bathroom,upstairs landing?

Hi Sir Benjamin! Frustratingly there are very few good locations for
the boiler. Our understairs cupboard has no outside walls and is in the
middle of the house, which means the flue would have to have lots of
bends in it to get outside (against regulations?); the bathroom is also
miniscule with a mirror and shower covering one wall and a large window
covering the other; the landing has a large window on the only outside
wall which might mean the flue was too close to it, plus the noise of
the fan would be quite audible from the bedrooms at night. Conclusion -
my house is annoying.

You could have one of those automatic greenhouse opening vent things to
pop open a vent if temp got a bit warm perhaps?

Good idea Mark - I wasn't actually aware that such a thing existed.
I'll look into it!

First: my boiler is 'outside'. In my case the boiler is located in a former 'outside' toilet.

Hi Brian. Thanks for your reply. That's interesting... have you had any
problems with the boiler being outside? Do you have a frost protection
thermostat, and if so, do you find it kicks in a lot and makes a big
difference to your gas consumption? And is the former-toilet ventilated
so it does not get too hot?

Second: AIUI, if the boiler is in the loft, safe access _must_ be provided
for any serviceman you hire

Aahh - I wasn't aware of that. That makes a big difference to the
viability of that option for us: there is no loft ladder, rail, or
walkway, and the loft is very low.

Sorry "Pet", just noticed I called you "Mark" in my previous post.
Duhhh! Got a bit confused with the quoted replies.

"Steve H" wrote in message
ps.com...
First: my boiler is 'outside'. In my case the boiler is located in a
former 'outside' toilet.

Hi Brian. Thanks for your reply. That's interesting... have you had any
problems with the boiler being outside? Do you have a frost protection
thermostat, and if so, do you find it kicks in a lot and makes a big
difference to your gas consumption? And is the former-toilet ventilated
so it does not get too hot?


I can only infer that you're too young to have experienced 'outside toilets'
!
Outside toilets have a door to the outside world, are unheated, and in my
case has an opening window plus a airbrick. Ventilation is not a problem.
The bolier itself is a closed case, system that takes combustion air from
'outside' and exhausts flue gases through a concentric duct. [AIUI, most
'room sealed' boilers are of this design.] A frost-stat should (IMHO) always
be fitted to a system anyway - you may be away over the winter period.


--

Brian

I can only infer that you're too young to have experienced 'outside toilets'

He-he, yes you are quite correct!

A frost-stat should (IMHO) always
be fitted to a system anyway - you may be away over the winter period.

Thanks for your reply again Brian. Obviously I no idea how long ago it
was you moved your boiler outside, but do you remember if your gas
usage went up significantly because of the frost-stat clicking on more
often than it would have done when your boiler was indoors?

Steve H wrote:
Hi everyone,

I have a Glow-worm room-sealed boiler ("Ultimate 60FF") which is using
up valuable space in my small kitchen, which I am therefore hoping to
move. A plumber friend of ours suggested it could be moved onto the
outside wall of the house, enclosed in a waterproof wooden box, with a
frost protection thermostat to prevent the unit getting too cold. This
sounds like a good idea, though I have a couple of reservations, which
I was hoping someone might be able to help with!

Our boiler is almost outside - its in the old coal house which is quite
exposed to the elements as it sticks out from the house and has its own
uninsulated tile roof - the boiler was positioned there when we moved in -
the only additional protection as far as I can see is that all the water
pipes going to and from the boiler are lagged in tubular foam. I think the
boiler (halsted combi - Electronic start - no pilot to blow out) is around
10-12 years old and have had no problem with it so far - however some of the
components on the circuit board are rusty, but the appear to still work
okay - I guess this may be due to condensation forming on the boards due to
the large difference in temperatures it will have to cope with in winter
when its switched on.

Jon

...however some of the
components on the circuit board are rusty, but the appear to still work
okay - I guess this may be due to condensation forming on the boards due to
the large difference in temperatures it will have to cope with in winter
when its switched on.

Thanks for your comments Jonathan... hmm... I hadn't even considered
condensation - that is worth taking into account, although it sounds
like, in your case at least, it hasn't caused any major issues.

I have a Glow-worm room-sealed boiler ("Ultimate 60FF") which is using
up valuable space in my small kitchen, which I am therefore hoping to
move. A plumber friend of ours suggested it could be moved onto the
outside wall of the house, enclosed in a waterproof wooden box, with a
frost protection thermostat to prevent the unit getting too cold. This
sounds like a good idea, though I have a couple of reservations, which
I was hoping someone might be able to help with!

1. The boiler manual states that if the boiler is enclosed in a
compartment, high and low level ventilation must be provided. If I do
this, I'm guessing it will make the air temperature inside the box very
cold in winter. During night-times (when the boiler would generally be
timed off), would there be a danger of the frost protection thermostat
turning on very frequently, and increasing my gas bills enormously?

2. If I ignore the Glow-worm recommendation of ventilating the box, and
instead completely enclose the boiler, and add extra insulation (in
order to keep the box as warm as possible in winter), would there then
be a danger of the boiler getting too HOT in summer?

My mates got a boiler outside in his ex-outside loo. Only thing special is a
100W thermostatically controlled heater underneath it as frost protection.
He got quotes about replacing it with a modern condensing boiler (to cut gas
bills) but the fitters stated they couldn't fit a condensing boiler as no
convenient condensate drain point that would be free from freezing. (the
drain no longer exists in his outside loo). So freezing of condensate when
outside is a point to consider.

He got quotes about replacing it with a modern condensing boiler (to cut gas
bills) but the fitters stated they couldn't fit a condensing boiler as no
convenient condensate drain point that would be free from freezing.

Hi Ian. Oh yeah - that's a very good point. My boiler is already 9
years old, so one day not too far away I'm probably going to have to
replace it with a condensing boiler (as per current regs). So if there
is a particular issue with installing condensing boilers outdoors that
could create a serious obstacle to my plans! Cheers for your thoughts.

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 13:47:35 +0100 Ian_m wrote :
My mates got a boiler outside in his ex-outside loo. Only thing special is a
100W thermostatically controlled heater underneath it as frost protection.
He got quotes about replacing it with a modern condensing boiler (to cut gas
bills) but the fitters stated they couldn't fit a condensing boiler as no
convenient condensate drain point that would be free from freezing. (the
drain no longer exists in his outside loo). So freezing of condensate when
outside is a point to consider.

My mother's Keston is installed in a conservatory-type structure with quite a
long condensate drain. The only requirement was that the outside part had to be
larger diameter - I used 42mm sink waste.

Quite a number of boilers have a urinal cistern type trap that stores up the
water and then releases in one go, rather than a drip=drip-drip which would be
more likely to freeze.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk

in 562899 20060825 135532 "Steve H" wrote:
He got quotes about replacing it with a modern condensing boiler (to cut gas
bills) but the fitters stated they couldn't fit a condensing boiler as no
convenient condensate drain point that would be free from freezing.

Hi Ian. Oh yeah - that's a very good point. My boiler is already 9
years old, so one day not too far away I'm probably going to have to
replace it with a condensing boiler (as per current regs). So if there
is a particular issue with installing condensing boilers outdoors that
could create a serious obstacle to my plans! Cheers for your thoughts.

My gas boiler is in an external brick lean-to on the north wall of the house.
It was built that way in 1936. The boiler is 24 years old and still going strong
(I replaced an oil boiler with gas in 1982).

My gas boiler is in an external brick lean-to on the north wall of the house.
It was built that way in 1936. The boiler is 24 years old and still going strong
(I replaced an oil boiler with gas in 1982).

Hi Bob. Wow - 24 years! So, being outside certainly hasn't done YOUR
boiler any harm. Can you think of any reason why a boiler might be more
happy in a brick lean-to than a small wooden box?

in 563057 20060825 203904 "Steve H" wrote:
My gas boiler is in an external brick lean-to on the north wall of the house.
It was built that way in 1936. The boiler is 24 years old and still going strong
(I replaced an oil boiler with gas in 1982).

Hi Bob. Wow - 24 years! So, being outside certainly hasn't done YOUR
boiler any harm. Can you think of any reason why a boiler might be more
happy in a brick lean-to than a small wooden box?

Sorry, Steve, I don't think I'm qualified to answer that, but our boiler does have a
frost protection switch.