Hi All,

My daughter has a 4' fluorescent lamp over her work area ( it's under
her high wall mounted bed with a cover over the outward facing side)
and its fine for *us* (plenty of light for her, cheap to run for me!)
;-).

She mentioned yesterday that it didn't start properly (flickering /
buzzing) so I guess I'm looking at a new tube and or starter (I can't
remember when it was last changed .. probably not good ..) but I
thought I remembered reading here about 'alternative' fancy fluo's
that may be more suitable for this job especially as she now has her
PC TFT under there (although its not under the main lamp beam as
such).

She does often do 'art' there so something that gives a good spectrum
of light would probably be a good thing (maybe a solution where we
could get a range of tubes and see what feels best)?

So what am I looking for please, or do I just replace existing
shrug?

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:
Hi All,

My daughter has a 4' fluorescent lamp over her work area ( it's under
her high wall mounted bed with a cover over the outward facing side)
and its fine for *us* (plenty of light for her, cheap to run for me!)
;-).

She mentioned yesterday that it didn't start properly (flickering /
buzzing) so I guess I'm looking at a new tube and or starter (I can't
remember when it was last changed .. probably not good ..) but I
thought I remembered reading here about 'alternative' fancy fluo's
that may be more suitable for this job especially as she now has her
PC TFT under there (although its not under the main lamp beam as
such).

She does often do 'art' there so something that gives a good spectrum
of light would probably be a good thing (maybe a solution where we
could get a range of tubes and see what feels best)?

So what am I looking for please, or do I just replace existing
shrug?

All the best ..

T i m

I use daylight simulation bulbs (DSBs) in all of the lamps and lights in
my light-controlled lab. They have two things going for them: they
produce a light that makes colours look the same as in daylight, so
obviously good for art; they may make you feel less tired than
conventional bulbs. I have no technical justification for the second
property, maybe it's just how it affects me, but the light boxes that
SAD (seasonally affecting disorder) people use have 'em in.

You can get DSBs in fluorescent and low energy format as well, Google
gives these guys as suppliers:
http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/sea...nt&show=n ear

I understand that plants grow better with DSBs as well (as the nefarious
chemical boys will tell you).

Chips.

--
-----------
Chips'll make it better.
-----------

In article ,
T i m wrote:
She does often do 'art' there so something that gives a good spectrum
of light would probably be a good thing (maybe a solution where we
could get a range of tubes and see what feels best)?

The good ol' colour matching northlight tubes are ideal for this sort of
thing. With an electronic ballast to reduce flicker and improve life and
efficiency.

--
*Taxation WITH representation ain't much fun, either.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:07:42 +0100, Chips wrote:


I use daylight simulation bulbs (DSBs) in all of the lamps and lights in
my light-controlled lab. They have two things going for them: they
produce a light that makes colours look the same as in daylight, so
obviously good for art;

Ok ..

they may make you feel less tired than
conventional bulbs.

The main problem with our 15 yr old is getting her to go to sleep and
not read all night!

I have no technical justification for the second
property, maybe it's just how it affects me, but the light boxes that
SAD (seasonally affecting disorder) people use have 'em in.

Ah, that was a question of mine a few months back (SAD boxes).

You can get DSBs in fluorescent and low energy format as well, Google
gives these guys as suppliers:
http://www.lightbulbs-direct.com/sea...nt&show=n ear

Ok, thanks for that Chips.

I understand that plants grow better with DSBs as well (as the nefarious
chemical boys will tell you).

lol

All the best ..

T i m

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:13:02 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
She does often do 'art' there so something that gives a good spectrum
of light would probably be a good thing (maybe a solution where we
could get a range of tubes and see what feels best)?

The good ol' colour matching northlight tubes are ideal for this sort of
thing. With an electronic ballast to reduce flicker and improve life and
efficiency.

Thanks for that Dave.

I'f I've wanted a 5' flouro fitting in the past I've just wandered
into my local electrical supplier and just bought what they handed
over the counter, the only real choices being 'do you want slim or
normal tubes and a diffuser or not' ?

So how would I go about getting a complete 4' fitting with 'electronic
ballast' or is it something I could retro fit to the existing one?
Should I be able to walk into any decent electrical wholesaler and ask
for .... ??

(I'm thinking if there was any cost saving / technical advantage to
doing either of the above please? Keeping the existing fitting could
make the job easier re screw holes etc as it's mounted on it's side
(to keep it tight to the 'ceiling' (raised bed underside)) and to
ensure most of the light is thrown back / down).

All the best ..

T i m

In article ,
T i m writes:

I'f I've wanted a 5' flouro fitting in the past I've just wandered
into my local electrical supplier and just bought what they handed
over the counter, the only real choices being 'do you want slim or
normal tubes and a diffuser or not' ?

So how would I go about getting a complete 4' fitting with 'electronic
ballast' or is it something I could retro fit to the existing one?

I retrofit them in.

Should I be able to walk into any decent electrical wholesaler and ask
for .... ??

You should, but you'll be lucky if you can, _yet_...

The EU has been steadily raising the efficiency required
of fluorescent tube control gear. Gear is rated A, B, C
in decreasing order of efficiency. Electronic control gear
is all A. Magnetic ballasts were B and C rated, although
there are some high quality A-rated magnetic ballasts.
Grade C ballasts were banned a while back, but they are
what you would have found in cheap fittings from
sheds and wholesalers prior to that. I think B has
recently been banned too, or is due to be shortly.
That leaves A, which is electronic control gear and the
very highest efficiency magnetic ballasts. This might lead
to more of a shift to electronic ballasts in bog-standard
fittings from sheds and wholesalers.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In article ,
T i m wrote:
I'f I've wanted a 5' flouro fitting in the past I've just wandered
into my local electrical supplier and just bought what they handed
over the counter, the only real choices being 'do you want slim or
normal tubes and a diffuser or not' ?

There is a vast range of tubes for specialist apps and any decent
wholesaler should be able to supply one as common as a colour matching
northlight.

So how would I go about getting a complete 4' fitting with 'electronic
ballast' or is it something I could retro fit to the existing one?
Should I be able to walk into any decent electrical wholesaler and ask
for .... ??

I'd say it should be possible to fit an electronic ballast to most
standard fittings. The wiring is simpler than a conventional choke type -
simply mains in and two feeds - one to each end cap.

(I'm thinking if there was any cost saving / technical advantage to
doing either of the above please? Keeping the existing fitting could
make the job easier re screw holes etc as it's mounted on it's side
(to keep it tight to the 'ceiling' (raised bed underside)) and to
ensure most of the light is thrown back / down).

Should be easy if it's not a slimline fitting, but maybe even then.

I've favoured Osram electronic ballasts. I have dimming versions fitted to
my under cupboard lighting in my kitchen. Two tubes of different lengths
as the cupboards are on two adjoining walls. Used the same on others'
kitchens and not heard of a tube or ballast failure yet. Mine are over 10
years old and left on when out of the house.

Do a Google on 'Osram electronic ballast' to find a supplier near you or
an online one.

--
*I never drink anything stronger than gin before breakfast *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 29 Apr 2006 12:26:33 GMT, (Andrew
Gabriel) wrote:

In article ,
T i m writes:

I'f I've wanted a 5' flouro fitting in the past I've just wandered
into my local electrical supplier and just bought what they handed
over the counter, the only real choices being 'do you want slim or
normal tubes and a diffuser or not' ?

So how would I go about getting a complete 4' fitting with 'electronic
ballast' or is it something I could retro fit to the existing one?

I retrofit them in.

Good, so it can (physically) be done then at least. ;-)

Should I be able to walk into any decent electrical wholesaler and ask
for .... ??

You should, but you'll be lucky if you can, _yet_...

The EU has been steadily raising the efficiency required
of fluorescent tube control gear. Gear is rated A, B, C
in decreasing order of efficiency. Electronic control gear
is all A. Magnetic ballasts were B and C rated, although
there are some high quality A-rated magnetic ballasts.
Grade C ballasts were banned a while back, but they are
what you would have found in cheap fittings from
sheds and wholesalers prior to that. I think B has
recently been banned too, or is due to be shortly.
That leaves A, which is electronic control gear and the
very highest efficiency magnetic ballasts. This might lead
to more of a shift to electronic ballasts in bog-standard
fittings from sheds and wholesalers.

Hmm, ok, well inspired to have a look I've found the following in her
(slimline) fitting ..(I think, reading upside down etc)

2 x Schwalbe L65TD 760 Osram / Philips 932 760 ballasts?

1 x Superfast electronic starter type GP ?

1 x 6uF cap

And it was running a 5' (not 4 as I guessed) Thorn 58W Pluslux 3500
slimline tube?

Ok, so is there any info there that would tell anyone in the know what
I have got and is it any good please?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:29:48 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:


There is a vast range of tubes for specialist apps and any decent
wholesaler should be able to supply one as common as a colour matching
northlight.

Ok, ta ..

So how would I go about getting a complete 4' fitting with 'electronic
ballast' or is it something I could retro fit to the existing one?
Should I be able to walk into any decent electrical wholesaler and ask
for .... ??

I'd say it should be possible to fit an electronic ballast to most
standard fittings. The wiring is simpler than a conventional choke type -
simply mains in and two feeds - one to each end cap.

So I replace the 4 items (two chokes, one cap and one electronic
starter) with one item?

(I'm thinking if there was any cost saving / technical advantage to
doing either of the above please? Keeping the existing fitting could
make the job easier re screw holes etc as it's mounted on it's side
(to keep it tight to the 'ceiling' (raised bed underside)) and to
ensure most of the light is thrown back / down).

Should be easy if it's not a slimline fitting, but maybe even then.

Oh .. ;-(

I've favoured Osram electronic ballasts. I have dimming versions fitted to
my under cupboard lighting in my kitchen. Two tubes of different lengths
as the cupboards are on two adjoining walls. Used the same on others'
kitchens and not heard of a tube or ballast failure yet. Mine are over 10
years old and left on when out of the house.

Do a Google on 'Osram electronic ballast' to find a supplier near you or
an online one.

Hmm, 1M broken links, obsure missmatches an pdf results . I'll try
again later ;-(

And even if it had given a decent result you don't know if you are
being ripped off ..?

"Could you supply me one of yer ZXYZ123's please"

"Yes Sir, bend over and we'll give you the price .. " ;-)

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:

Hi All,

My daughter has a 4' fluorescent lamp over her work area ( it's under
her high wall mounted bed with a cover over the outward facing side)
and its fine for *us* (plenty of light for her, cheap to run for me!)
;-).

She mentioned yesterday that it didn't start properly (flickering /
buzzing) so I guess I'm looking at a new tube and or starter (I can't
remember when it was last changed .. probably not good ..) but I
thought I remembered reading here about 'alternative' fancy fluo's
that may be more suitable for this job especially as she now has her
PC TFT under there (although its not under the main lamp beam as
such).

She does often do 'art' there so something that gives a good spectrum
of light would probably be a good thing (maybe a solution where we
could get a range of tubes and see what feels best)?

So what am I looking for please, or do I just replace existing
shrug?

All the best ..

T i m

The usual rule is replace the starter first (small, 50p) and if it
doesnt work replace the tube (large, a few quid). Good idea to keep a
spare available.

For replacement tube I would recommend 3500K. This will by default be a
halophosphate tube, and I'd go with this because a 5' fitting above a
workspace is a high illumination level, and there would be no real
advantage with a triphosphor tube in this case, just more chance of
headaches.

Northlight tubes in domestic situations I'd stay well away from, high
CCT tubes are quite hideous to live with. If she wants a dedicated
artist's light, fine, but for reading, computing etc, no. Same applies
to cool white, 4500K and so on.

Why youre talking about replacing the fitting i've no idea, is the
present one unsatisfactory? If you do, I'd downsize to 4', unless she
needs a seriously high light level for some reason.


NT

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Do a Google on 'Osram electronic ballast' to find a supplier near you or
an online one.

Hmm, 1M broken links, obsure missmatches an pdf results . I'll try
again later ;-(

http://shopping.lycos.co.uk/c1129p1m...g_systems.html

--
*Never miss a good chance to shut up *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 29 Apr 2006 11:29:31 -0700, wrote:


The usual rule is replace the starter first (small, 50p) and if it
doesnt work replace the tube (large, a few quid). Good idea to keep a
spare available.

I have looked closer since my first post and this thing has a big (as
big as the cap) electronic starter?

For replacement tube I would recommend 3500K.

That's what's in there at the moment ..

This will by default be a
halophosphate tube, and I'd go with this because a 5' fitting above a
workspace is a high illumination level, and there would be no real
advantage with a triphosphor tube in this case, just more chance of
headaches.

Ok ..

Northlight tubes in domestic situations I'd stay well away from, high
CCT tubes are quite hideous to live with. If she wants a dedicated
artist's light, fine, but for reading, computing etc, no. Same applies
to cool white, 4500K and so on.

Ok ..

Why youre talking about replacing the fitting i've no idea, is the
present one unsatisfactory?

No, as far as I'm aware it has always been very 'fit for purpose' but
I thought that I'd better ask if technology now provided something
better some 15 years after I installed it?

If you do, I'd downsize to 4', unless she
needs a seriously high light level for some reason.

Her 'desk' is a very deep, double post formed edge worktop that is
the full width of the room. The 5' light fills that area quite well
leaving the ends a bit darker for her TV / (TFT) PC screen (opposite
ends) .

If what we have already is 'still ok' then it will just be a new (90p)
tube on Tuesday .. ;-)

(it has always had a bit of mains hum but nothing she (or her big
sister) have ever complained about)?

All the best ..

T i m

On Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:55:11 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
T i m wrote:
Do a Google on 'Osram electronic ballast' to find a supplier near you or
an online one.

Hmm, 1M broken links, obsure missmatches an pdf results . I'll try
again later ;-(

http://shopping.lycos.co.uk/c1129p1m...g_systems.html

Ah, thanks Dave ;-)

So, if the existing 5' flouro says 58W I assume I would need something
'bigger' (or equal to) to run it?

Like ..

http://www.bltdirect.com/product.php?pid=5497&cat=424


Our tube is ~ 1" in diameter and the pins 1/2" spacing?

What is a T5 tube?

All the best ..

T i m

T i m wrote:
On 29 Apr 2006 11:29:31 -0700, wrote:

Why youre talking about replacing the fitting i've no idea, is the
present one unsatisfactory?

No, as far as I'm aware it has always been very 'fit for purpose' but
I thought that I'd better ask if technology now provided something
better some 15 years after I installed it?

Electronic control gear and triphosphor tubes both provide a little
more efficiency. With the same input power that means a little more
light output. With a 5 footer above her desk thats unlikely to be
wanted. You've already got the non flicker and flash starting that an
electronic starter gives.


If what we have already is 'still ok' then it will just be a new (90p)
tube on Tuesday .. ;-)

yes, its even simpler when using electronic starters.


(it has always had a bit of mains hum but nothing she (or her big
sister) have ever complained about)?

not hard to reduce that if ever wanted


NT