Hi All,

I want to board my loft space but there are some small timbers that
I'm not sure what they are for.

The house was built in the 1960's and the loft space is fairly open in
the middle (not trusses). It's a standard pitched roof (not hipped).

Near the corners of the central section there are some rough timbers
bridging 3 or 4 joists. As I want to board the loft space I am trying
to figure out if it is safe to remove these timbers. The timbers are
close (6 inches ish) to a substantial cross member so I can't see the
reason for them (except one was used as a support for a cold water
tank but that's gone now).

Can anyone shed any light on whether it would be safe to remove these
timbers?

I'm sure I've left out some important info so please ask :-)

Mark

Mark wrote:
I want to board my loft space but there are some small timbers that
I'm not sure what they are for.

Pic pic pic picture!

Chris Bacon wrote:
Mark wrote:
I want to board my loft space but there are some small timbers that
I'm not sure what they are for.

Pic pic pic picture!

Or just take them out, wait for a high wind with lots of snow on the
roof, and get a free diagnosis!

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:50:12 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Mark wrote:
I want to board my loft space but there are some small timbers that
I'm not sure what they are for.

Pic pic pic picture!

I'll try to locate a camera and some webspace to place pics on.

I'm guessing these timbers were used during the construction of the
roof and never removed.

Mark.

Mark wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:50:12 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Mark wrote:
I want to board my loft space but there are some small timbers that
I'm not sure what they are for.

Pic pic pic picture!

I'll try to locate a camera and some webspace to place pics on.

That could e a very good investment.

I'm guessing these timbers were used during the construction of the
roof and never removed.

They sound more like a tank support that was left in after a refurb but
you could be right. Either way it sounds safe to remove them.

The rafters will be be 3x2's at 2 foot centres (inside face to inside
face.) Which means that you will need to put extra 2x2s in at 4 or 8
foot intervals. But it depends on what you can drag thrugh the hatch. I
would suggest relocating the hatch and making it larger. Twin 18" doors
perhaps. as you are going to need to reinforce the floor and roof
joists.

The ceiling joists might well be 3x4s or 4x2s. Floor joists spanning 2
rooms will need to be 7x2s. It all depends on what span they are going
to be.

Check out a link for joists in the faqs.

Once you have a walk of planks up there, use a roller to give a quick
couple of coats of the cheapest emulsion to the roofing felt. Then
install a couple of 300W halogens. Or smaller wattage if you can get
them.

You next want to rewire and/if plumbing, the other necessaries.

If it is to take a fair weight, the ceiling joists need reinforcing.
And that means more than the boards as they will be adding to the grief
the joist will be getting.

On 3 Feb 2006 08:35:46 -0800, "Weatherlawyer"
wrote:


Mark wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:50:12 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Mark wrote:
I want to board my loft space but there are some small timbers that
I'm not sure what they are for.

Pic pic pic picture!

I'll try to locate a camera and some webspace to place pics on.

That could e a very good investment.

I've got one -- it's just a matter of finding it ;-)

I'm guessing these timbers were used during the construction of the
roof and never removed.

They sound more like a tank support that was left in after a refurb but
you could be right. Either way it sounds safe to remove them.

However there are four of them located at four corners (nowhere near
each other), one was used as a tank support.

The rafters will be be 3x2's at 2 foot centres (inside face to inside
face.) Which means that you will need to put extra 2x2s in at 4 or 8
foot intervals. But it depends on what you can drag thrugh the hatch. I
would suggest relocating the hatch and making it larger. Twin 18" doors
perhaps. as you are going to need to reinforce the floor and roof
joists.

The ceiling joists might well be 3x4s or 4x2s. Floor joists spanning 2
rooms will need to be 7x2s. It all depends on what span they are going
to be.

Check out a link for joists in the faqs.

Once you have a walk of planks up there, use a roller to give a quick
couple of coats of the cheapest emulsion to the roofing felt. Then
install a couple of 300W halogens. Or smaller wattage if you can get
them.

You next want to rewire and/if plumbing, the other necessaries.

If it is to take a fair weight, the ceiling joists need reinforcing.
And that means more than the boards as they will be adding to the grief
the joist will be getting.

Why? I am only using the loft for storage, not as a living space.

Mark

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:50:12 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:

Mark wrote:
I want to board my loft space but there are some small timbers that
I'm not sure what they are for.

Pic pic pic picture!

http://www.savefile.com/files/9991539
http://www.savefile.com/files/7847719
http://www.savefile.com/files/1779286

Mark wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:50:12 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:


Mark wrote:

I want to board my loft space but there are some small timbers that
I'm not sure what they are for.

Pic pic pic picture!


http://www.savefile.com/files/9991539
http://www.savefile.com/files/7847719
http://www.savefile.com/files/1779286

They look like they are the same age as the other loft timbers rather
than being added later. They are probably tie beams used to provide
latteral bracing to the floor joists. Especially those with a long
unsupported span. You could probably replace them by a row of noggings
between the joists.



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Weatherlawyer wrote:
Mark wrote:
On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:50:12 +0000, Chris Bacon
Mark wrote:

I want to board my loft space but there are some small timbers that
I'm not sure what they are for.


They sound more like a tank support that was left in after a refurb but
you could be right. Either way it sounds safe to remove them.

The rafters will be be 3x2's at 2 foot centres (inside face to inside
face.) Which means that you will need to put extra 2x2s in at 4 or 8
foot intervals. But it depends on what you can drag thrugh the hatch. I
would suggest relocating the hatch and making it larger. Twin 18" doors
perhaps. as you are going to need to reinforce the floor and roof
joists.

The ceiling joists might well be 3x4s or 4x2s. Floor joists spanning 2
rooms will need to be 7x2s. It all depends on what span they are going
to be.

Check out a link for joists in the faqs.

Once you have a walk of planks up there, use a roller to give a quick
couple of coats of the cheapest emulsion to the roofing felt. Then
install a couple of 300W halogens. Or smaller wattage if you can get
them.

You next want to rewire and/if plumbing, the other necessaries.

If it is to take a fair weight, the ceiling joists need reinforcing.
And that means more than the boards as they will be adding to the grief
the joist will be getting.


I would be quite worried if someone followed this advice with my house.


NT

Mark wrote:
On 3 Feb 2006 08:35:46 -0800, "Weatherlawyer"
wrote:

If it is to take a fair weight, the ceiling joists need reinforcing.
And that means more than the boards as they will be adding to the grief
the joist will be getting.

Why? I am only using the loft for storage, not as a living space.

I said "if".

How was I supposed to know you were not going to be holding line
dancing meetings up there? Or storing memorabilia from WW 2, such as
your selection of German tanks.

It's no good you asking advice if you are going to feed us information
about your pet projects piecemeal. Bear that in mind the next time you
come asking for help, dopey!

Weatherlawyer wrote:

The rafters will be be 3x2's at 2 foot centres (inside face to inside

Will be? Seems to be make some presumptions. They could be any number of
sizes and spacings. They are more likely to be 4x2" on a 60s property.

face.) Which means that you will need to put extra 2x2s in at 4 or 8
foot intervals. But it depends on what you can drag thrugh the hatch. I

What are these for?

would suggest relocating the hatch and making it larger. Twin 18" doors
perhaps. as you are going to need to reinforce the floor and roof
joists.

Might be a good idear to ask what sort of loading is going to be imposed
before you go down this route.

The ceiling joists might well be 3x4s or 4x2s. Floor joists spanning 2
rooms will need to be 7x2s. It all depends on what span they are going
to be.

Again you can't know that unless you know the loadings, the spacings
and the span.

Check out a link for joists in the faqs.

Don't think there are any in our FAQ - there is some advice in the
approved documents (building regs) on the www.odpm.gov.uk site though.

Once you have a walk of planks up there, use a roller to give a quick
couple of coats of the cheapest emulsion to the roofing felt. Then
install a couple of 300W halogens. Or smaller wattage if you can get
them.

You next want to rewire and/if plumbing, the other necessaries.

Huh?

If it is to take a fair weight, the ceiling joists need reinforcing.
And that means more than the boards as they will be adding to the grief
the joist will be getting.

Have you been ghost writing for dribble lately? Can we have that again
in english?



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:

Which means that you will need to put extra 2x2s in at 4 or 8 foot intervals.

What are these for?

Don't be silly. Read the OP.

Troll snipped.

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:17:56 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Mark wrote:

On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 13:50:12 +0000, Chris Bacon
wrote:


Mark wrote:

I want to board my loft space but there are some small timbers that
I'm not sure what they are for.

Pic pic pic picture!


http://www.savefile.com/files/9991539
http://www.savefile.com/files/7847719
http://www.savefile.com/files/1779286

They look like they are the same age as the other loft timbers rather
than being added later. They are probably tie beams used to provide
latteral bracing to the floor joists. Especially those with a long
unsupported span. You could probably replace them by a row of noggings
between the joists.

I've done this. Thanks for the advice.

Mark

Weatherlawyer wrote:

Which means that you will need to put extra 2x2s in at 4 or 8 foot intervals.


What are these for?


Don't be silly. Read the OP.

I read it, and could not see any need for 2x2"s Hence my question.

You said: "The rafters will be be 3x2's at 2 foot centres (inside face
to inside face.) Which means that you will need to put extra 2x2s in at
4 or 8 foot intervals. "

Aside from the fact that the rafters are probably not going to be 3x2"
and almost certainly won't be at 2' centres, what have the rafters got
to do with anything? He wants to board the floor, not the underside of
the roof.

Troll snipped.

Not trolling, just highlighting that what your were suggesting was ill
thought out at best, and more likely a load of b*llox.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Weatherlawyer wrote:

Don't be silly. Read the OP.

I read it, and could not see any need for 2x2"s Hence my question.

You said: "The rafters will be be 3x2's at 2 foot centres (inside face
to inside face.) Which means that you will need to put extra 2x2s in at
4 or 8 foot intervals. "

Aside from the fact that the rafters are probably not going to be 3x2" and almost certainly
won't be at 2' centres, what have the rafters got to do with anything? He wants to board the
floor, not the underside of the roof.You know that now but I didn't then.

H wrote:

I want to board my loft space.

I assumed he meant all of it.

The house was built in the 1960's and the loft space is fairly open in
the middle (not trusses). It's a standard pitched roof (not hipped).

In other words the rafters -no matter what section, are set at imperial
dimensions. Modern plasterboard is metric. He will lose about half an
inch in every board length.

As I want to board the loft space

I would have said by "loft space" he meant to enclose it all, otherwise
he'd have said something more germaine such as: I want to put some
stuff in the loft so I want to board the floor...

Assuming he was thinking of expandiing his family, I would have thought
it an idea to put the leckie, aeriels, computer leads and plumbing
under the boards or better still in the unusable outer edges.

He would then have needed to support or strengthen the floor joists.
His understatement at the end, about leaving things out, should have
warned me he was u ijaut.