Hi,
Had our back boiler/fire serviced today. I was at work, so the wife asked
him about changing the boiler soon, mainly because it is getting old, and
the fire is grossly outdated :-(

He told her that back boilers can no longer be fitted, and are no longer
being produced.

Can any of you good people confirm this? I still see back boilers anf fires
advertised on the baxi website.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:23:48 -0000, "Mike Gates"
wrote:

Hi,
Had our back boiler/fire serviced today. I was at work, so the wife asked
him about changing the boiler soon, mainly because it is getting old, and
the fire is grossly outdated :-(

He told her that back boilers can no longer be fitted, and are no longer
being produced.

Can any of you good people confirm this? I still see back boilers anf fires
advertised on the baxi website.


Like all these things, there's a glimmer of truth in it, but this
should be regarded as something he picked up at the plumber's
merchants.


The reality is that as from April of this year, new boilers do have to
be of the condensing type (for energy efficiency reasons) unless there
are specific reasons why not. New and replacement installations are
now subject to the Building Regulations part L1. However, if a
replacement is done by a CORGI fitter, he can certify the installation
as compliant. Since there are cases where it is not economically
practicable to install a condensing boiler (these are normally wall or
floor mount) then there is an assessment procedure with points for the
type of house, location and practical arrangements.

You can download a document on it from here and work out whether you
would be exempt.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1130727


I looked at this issue for my parents recently who also have a back
boiler, and we worked out that they would be exempt because of the
boiler location and alternatives not being possible.

In cases of exemption, the fitter can fill in the paperwork and
install a non-condensing boiler.

They are certainly still available


http://tinyurl.com/7trb6



However, as you have experienced, there is misinformation going
around. Perhaps the fitter is ignorant or can't be bothered or
looked at the installation and thought there would be no possibility
of an exemption or even was sharp and thought that he could line up a
more substantial job than might otherwise be needed.

Take your pick.

Equally, do consider that the typical back boiler is in the realms of
around 50% efficient and condensing boilers achieve about 90%. While
I don't subscribe to the scaremongering about gas prices in the short
term, it is clear that there is a medium and long term upward trend.




--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:23:48 -0000, "Mike Gates"
wrote:

Hi,
Had our back boiler/fire serviced today. I was at work, so the wife asked
him about changing the boiler soon, mainly because it is getting old, and
the fire is grossly outdated :-(

He told her that back boilers can no longer be fitted, and are no longer
being produced.

Can any of you good people confirm this? I still see back boilers anf
fires
advertised on the baxi website.


Like all these things, there's a glimmer of truth in it, but this
should be regarded as something he picked up at the plumber's
merchants.


The reality is that as from April of this year, new boilers do have to
be of the condensing type (for energy efficiency reasons) unless there
are specific reasons why not. New and replacement installations are
now subject to the Building Regulations part L1. However, if a
replacement is done by a CORGI fitter, he can certify the installation
as compliant. Since there are cases where it is not economically
practicable to install a condensing boiler (these are normally wall or
floor mount) then there is an assessment procedure with points for the
type of house, location and practical arrangements.

You can download a document on it from here and work out whether you
would be exempt.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1130727


I looked at this issue for my parents recently who also have a back
boiler, and we worked out that they would be exempt because of the
boiler location and alternatives not being possible.

In cases of exemption, the fitter can fill in the paperwork and
install a non-condensing boiler.

They are certainly still available


http://tinyurl.com/7trb6



However, as you have experienced, there is misinformation going
around. Perhaps the fitter is ignorant or can't be bothered or
looked at the installation and thought there would be no possibility
of an exemption or even was sharp and thought that he could line up a
more substantial job than might otherwise be needed.

Take your pick.

Equally, do consider that the typical back boiler is in the realms of
around 50% efficient and condensing boilers achieve about 90%. While
I don't subscribe to the scaremongering about gas prices in the short
term, it is clear that there is a medium and long term upward trend.

Thanks Andy for a comprehensive reply. I'll download the document and have a
read, but TBH, I would be glad to see the back of it.

It's certainly overdue for renewal, and I can see distinct advantages to
getting rid of it.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:09:58 -0000, "Mike Gates"
wrote:


Thanks Andy for a comprehensive reply. I'll download the document and have a
read, but TBH, I would be glad to see the back of it.

It's certainly overdue for renewal, and I can see distinct advantages to
getting rid of it.


You're very welcome.

If you do decide to go the condensing boiler route, then there are
loads of options.

Many of them can work with very long twin pipe flues using 50mm high
temperature plastic waste pipe (20m is typical). Mounting can be
virtually anywhere, including loft spaces and so on. Certainly don't
imagine that you have to go for the classic kitchen wall job if you
don't want to.

When you do come to change, it is very worthwhile shopping around for
the best combination of quality of work and price. Generally I would
avoid British Gas. They charge very high prices and then typically
sub out the work to a local independent fitter, so you might as well
find a good heating engineer yourself.


--

..andy

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:09:58 -0000, "Mike Gates"
wrote:

Many of them can work with very long twin pipe flues using 50mm high
temperature plastic waste pipe (20m is typical). Mounting can be
virtually anywhere, including loft spaces and so on. Certainly don't
imagine that you have to go for the classic kitchen wall job if you
don't want to.

You've certainly wetted my appetite here. We have a cupboard in the main
bedroom currently housing the cold water tank, which would be an ideal
position for a new boiler. I think the flue and drain can be accommodated
relatively easily.

Her indoors is already looking for something to fill the hearth with! Plus
we would be able to hear the telly when the wind blows, instead of the flue
pipe howling. And we can both get rid of our giant slippers that keep our
feet out of the draught of the vent:-)
(Note the smiley, we don't really have giant slippers....yet).

When you do come to change, it is very worthwhile shopping around for
the best combination of quality of work and price. Generally I would
avoid British Gas. They charge very high prices and then typically
sub out the work to a local independent fitter, so you might as well
find a good heating engineer yourself.

Yes, I'm well aware of BG, and shall be giving this some serious thought
after the festivities.

Thank you again.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 23:37:58 -0000, "Mike Gates"
wrote:




You've certainly wetted my appetite here. We have a cupboard in the main
bedroom currently housing the cold water tank, which would be an ideal
position for a new boiler. I think the flue and drain can be accommodated
relatively easily.

Her indoors is already looking for something to fill the hearth with! Plus
we would be able to hear the telly when the wind blows, instead of the flue
pipe howling. And we can both get rid of our giant slippers that keep our
feet out of the draught of the vent:-)
(Note the smiley, we don't really have giant slippers....yet).


Bear in mind that most modern boilers, and as far as I know, all
condensing types have a fan assisted flue - i.e. a fan pulls in the
combustion air from outside. Many also modulate - i.e. the burn
rate (and usually fan speed) vary according to heat load.

While they are not that noisy in most cases, you might not want one in
the bedroom.


--

..andy

"Mike Gates" wrote in message
...
Hi,
Had our back boiler/fire serviced today. I was at work, so the wife asked
him about changing the boiler soon, mainly because it is getting old, and
the fire is grossly outdated :-(

He told her that back boilers can no longer be fitted, and are no longer
being produced.

Can any of you good people confirm this? I still see back boilers anf
fires
advertised on the baxi website.

My mate had a new Baxi non-condensing back boiler fitted couple of months
ago, no issues. Fitter ran through list of options, not feasible to fit a
condensing bolier so in went an almost direct equivalent to the 1970's Baxi
Bermuda. Works fine, uses less gas and heats quicker as water is now pumped.

Mind you my boss has just had is condensing boiler (3rd one in 7 years)
replaced with a normal bolier. This is because it is fitted in an out house
(by original builders) and a condensing boiler should have never been fitted
as the condensate pipe freezes, thus flooding the boiler. Luckily all being
done under warranty.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:55:02 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 22:23:48 -0000, "Mike Gates"
wrote:

Hi,
Had our back boiler/fire serviced today. I was at work, so the wife asked
him about changing the boiler soon, mainly because it is getting old, and
the fire is grossly outdated :-(

He told her that back boilers can no longer be fitted, and are no longer
being produced.

Can any of you good people confirm this? I still see back boilers anf fires
advertised on the baxi website.


Like all these things, there's a glimmer of truth in it, but this
should be regarded as something he picked up at the plumber's
merchants.


The reality is that as from April of this year, new boilers do have to
be of the condensing type (for energy efficiency reasons) unless there
are specific reasons why not. New and replacement installations are
now subject to the Building Regulations part L1. However, if a
replacement is done by a CORGI fitter, he can certify the installation
as compliant. Since there are cases where it is not economically
practicable to install a condensing boiler (these are normally wall or
floor mount) then there is an assessment procedure with points for the
type of house, location and practical arrangements.

You can download a document on it from here and work out whether you
would be exempt.

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1130727


I looked at this issue for my parents recently who also have a back
boiler, and we worked out that they would be exempt because of the
boiler location and alternatives not being possible.

In cases of exemption, the fitter can fill in the paperwork and
install a non-condensing boiler.

They are certainly still available


http://tinyurl.com/7trb6



However, as you have experienced, there is misinformation going
around. Perhaps the fitter is ignorant or can't be bothered or
looked at the installation and thought there would be no possibility
of an exemption or even was sharp and thought that he could line up a
more substantial job than might otherwise be needed.

Take your pick.

Equally, do consider that the typical back boiler is in the realms of
around 50% efficient and condensing boilers achieve about 90%. While
I don't subscribe to the scaremongering about gas prices in the short
term, it is clear that there is a medium and long term upward trend.


I endorse all of the above. It should be noted that back boiler units are
so expensive relative to wall hung units that almost all upheaval problems
can be over come more cheaply, overall, but converting to a wall mounted
installation.

The modern BB units are little changed from the original designs,
electronic ignition and controls being the main change. There are even
combi versions. Note that the flue liner is nominally if not actually life
expired and would need to be replaced as part of the job.

As for the condensing units failing, this is more about incorrect
installation than about shortcomings in condensing boiler technology
(apart from some really appalling early models.)


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html