Hello there,

I had three quotes to have a combination "Condensing" boiler fitter. First
two looked it and said fine and provided price. However, the last guy and
the one who I liked most said I cannot have a combination condensing boiler
as I have a cast iron waste pipe which is shared with the whole flat (I am
on top floor of three story flat). He said the high acidic content will rot
the sewage pipe and I am not allowed.

No one else mentioned this! Even the inspector (it is an ex authority
property) who visited for other aspects did not mention this (although he
was not particular an expert).

Looked on the internet and cannot find any mention of this. Anyone else
heard this?

Kind regards
Dave

Dave Smithz wrote:

Looked on the internet and cannot find any mention of this. Anyone else
heard this?


True. If there is dilution from the point of entry into the CI soil &
vent pipe, then there probably won't be any significant corrosion. It
will rot a CI drain pipe if there is inadequate dilution, it will rot
the bottom out of a horizontal pipe. .

See 'Condensate Treatment', P22 of this document.

http://www.viessmann.de/web/germany/com_publish.nsf/AttachmentsByTitle/ts-condensing-technology.pdf/$FILE/ts-condensing-technology.pdf

In article , Dave
Smithz writes

Hello there,

I had three quotes to have a combination "Condensing" boiler fitter. First
two looked it and said fine and provided price. However, the last guy and
the one who I liked most said I cannot have a combination condensing boiler
as I have a cast iron waste pipe which is shared with the whole flat (I am
on top floor of three story flat). He said the high acidic content will rot
the sewage pipe and I am not allowed.

No one else mentioned this! Even the inspector (it is an ex authority
property) who visited for other aspects did not mention this (although he
was not particular an expert).

Looked on the internet and cannot find any mention of this. Anyone else
heard this?

My own condensate flow ends up in a cast iron drainage system but is
routed in plastic piping to join the drain from my kitchen sink which dilutes
the flow. If there are regulations that forbid this it would preclude fitting
condensers in half the houses in the country. I suspect there may be a
requirement to ensure sufficient dilution.
--
fred
Plusnet - I hope you like vanilla

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:36:17 GMT, fred wrote:

In article , Dave
Smithz writes

Hello there,

I had three quotes to have a combination "Condensing" boiler fitter. First
two looked it and said fine and provided price. However, the last guy and
the one who I liked most said I cannot have a combination condensing boiler
as I have a cast iron waste pipe which is shared with the whole flat (I am
on top floor of three story flat). He said the high acidic content will rot
the sewage pipe and I am not allowed.

No one else mentioned this! Even the inspector (it is an ex authority
property) who visited for other aspects did not mention this (although he
was not particular an expert).

Looked on the internet and cannot find any mention of this. Anyone else
heard this?

My own condensate flow ends up in a cast iron drainage system but is
routed in plastic piping to join the drain from my kitchen sink which dilutes
the flow. If there are regulations that forbid this it would preclude fitting
condensers in half the houses in the country. I suspect there may be a
requirement to ensure sufficient dilution.

There certainly is in Germany, but not, AFAIK, in the UK.

I've read descriptions for soakaways to be used where this is not
possible.

However, clearly it would make sense if there were regulations in the
case of iron pipes and a location (as here) where piping to a soakaway
is probably not practicable.


--

..andy

OK, thanks for the input. This has left me slightly confused as what to do
though as I am not really sure whether this guy is right or not.
I had 4 guys come round - 2 gave a good look round, two a quick look round.
One of the two who had a quick look mentioned this cast iron pipe detail.

Could it be that he justs wants an easier job of fitting a non-condensing
boiler?

Is the conclusion then that I should not be dischargin into a cast iron
waste pipe and therefore cannot have a condensing boiler?

Any more opinions welcome.

Kind regards

Dave

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 10:27:09 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 00:36:17 GMT, fred wrote:

In article , Dave
Smithz writes

Hello there,

I had three quotes to have a combination "Condensing" boiler fitter. First
two looked it and said fine and provided price. However, the last guy and
the one who I liked most said I cannot have a combination condensing boiler
as I have a cast iron waste pipe which is shared with the whole flat (I am
on top floor of three story flat). He said the high acidic content will rot
the sewage pipe and I am not allowed.

No one else mentioned this! Even the inspector (it is an ex authority
property) who visited for other aspects did not mention this (although he
was not particular an expert).

Looked on the internet and cannot find any mention of this. Anyone else
heard this?

My own condensate flow ends up in a cast iron drainage system but is
routed in plastic piping to join the drain from my kitchen sink which dilutes
the flow. If there are regulations that forbid this it would preclude fitting
condensers in half the houses in the country. I suspect there may be a
requirement to ensure sufficient dilution.

There certainly is in Germany, but not, AFAIK, in the UK.

I've read descriptions for soakaways to be used where this is not
possible.

However, clearly it would make sense if there were regulations in the
case of iron pipes and a location (as here) where piping to a soakaway
is probably not practicable.

AIUI the rules are that the condensate must be taken in a plastic pipe to
drain (surface or foul) or a soakaway. The latter can be as little as a
60cm hole 15cm diameter filled with limestone chips.

If the soil stack is plastic then a connection into it using a strap on
boss or a pre-formed socket can be used.

There are a range of ages and styles of property around this area although
it tends to major on housing of around 70-120 years old. Condensate drains
are invariably easy to arrange.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:56:42 +0000, Dave Smithz wrote:


OK, thanks for the input. This has left me slightly confused as what to do
though as I am not really sure whether this guy is right or not.
I had 4 guys come round - 2 gave a good look round, two a quick look round.
One of the two who had a quick look mentioned this cast iron pipe detail.

Could it be that he justs wants an easier job of fitting a non-condensing
boiler?

Is the conclusion then that I should not be dischargin into a cast iron
waste pipe and therefore cannot have a condensing boiler?

Apart from possible regulatory considerations - Tee-ing into a CI soil
stack whilst possible is not easy. As I would look hard at other routes
first.

The exemption procedure gives extra points if there is no practical way to
make a condensate drain - However, off the top of my head the procedure
means that you still need extra points for a semi even after you have
decided to move the boiler - unless the flue or condensate drain are _even
then_ still no practical.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 18:56:42 GMT, "Dave Smithz"
wrote:


OK, thanks for the input. This has left me slightly confused as what to do
though as I am not really sure whether this guy is right or not.
I had 4 guys come round - 2 gave a good look round, two a quick look round.
One of the two who had a quick look mentioned this cast iron pipe detail.

Could it be that he justs wants an easier job of fitting a non-condensing
boiler?

Possible.


Is the conclusion then that I should not be dischargin into a cast iron
waste pipe and therefore cannot have a condensing boiler?

have a look at

http://www.odpm.gov.uk/embedded_object.asp?id=1130731

which describes the assessment procedure and also some installation
advice.

The exemption scoring section does not take the material of the
condensate drain into account.

There is an oblique reference in the section about materials which
mentions not using copper or mild steel.

However, it does also mention a soakaway as an option if there isn't a
suitable drain or gully.

In short, if you don't want a condensing boiler, then an installer may
be willing to fill in the paperwork (tick box Y and give a reason) to
justify that it was not practical.

If you do, then there may be another way than to use the CI pipe.






Any more opinions welcome.

Kind regards

Dave


--

..andy

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 19:31:14 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

AIUI the rules are that the condensate must be taken in a plastic
pipe to drain (surface or foul) or a soakaway. The latter can be as
little as a 60cm hole 15cm diameter filled with limestone chips.

Limestone? With the acidic condesate that will eat it's way through
metal pipes. Doesn't sound right to me, give it a few years and you'll
just have a hole in the ground...

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 21:32:23 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 19:31:14 +0000, Ed Sirett wrote:

AIUI the rules are that the condensate must be taken in a plastic
pipe to drain (surface or foul) or a soakaway. The latter can be as
little as a 60cm hole 15cm diameter filled with limestone chips.

Limestone? With the acidic condesate that will eat it's way through
metal pipes. Doesn't sound right to me, give it a few years and you'll
just have a hole in the ground...


I think that that's the point.

The limestone is intended to neutralise the acid.

Hepworth make a plastic soakaway product for the purpose.


http://www.hepworthplumbing.co.uk/company7.htm

http://www.hepworthplumbing.co.uk/he...htm#condensate

Refer also to ODPM document.



--

..andy

Andy Hall wrote:

I think that that's the point.

The limestone is intended to neutralise the acid.

The Viessmann link above also shows a neutraliser. You can get marble
chips for landscaping, which would do.

Can't you run the condensate in plastic down one floor below, or into,
a waste from a wash-basin or bath? The waste water should then dilute
the condensate enough to avoid a problem.

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 22:47:23 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

The limestone is intended to neutralise the acid.

Good point. B-)

Hepworth make a plastic soakaway product for the purpose.

But the first link says that the limstone chippings are outside the
soakaway so no means of replenishing them without digging out the
soakaway. Now if they where inside with a small access cover you could
easyly check and lob in a handfull every now and again...

Maybe I'm over estimating how fast the condensate will errode the
limestone and possibly the amount of liquid condenstate you get but it
doesn't take much to produce a pint/hr. 1 1ml drip every 10s is
360ml/hr (0.63 pints).

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 09:41:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Liquorice"
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 22:47:23 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

The limestone is intended to neutralise the acid.

Good point. B-)

Hepworth make a plastic soakaway product for the purpose.

But the first link says that the limstone chippings are outside the
soakaway so no means of replenishing them without digging out the
soakaway. Now if they where inside with a small access cover you could
easyly check and lob in a handfull every now and again...

I suspect that this was all written by somebody who had never actually
done this, but know from their GCSE chemistry that limestone can be
used to neutralise acid.

The idea of being able to replenish is a good idea, but I wonder if
most people would bother.

The acid is not that strong anyway (about like tomato juice) and what
the impact to the surrounding ground in comparison to dilution by
rainfall would actually be.

I can't help thinking that this is more by way of something to address
the imagined environmental concerns rather than the real ones.



Maybe I'm over estimating how fast the condensate will errode the
limestone and possibly the amount of liquid condenstate you get but it
doesn't take much to produce a pint/hr. 1 1ml drip every 10s is
360ml/hr (0.63 pints).

--

..andy

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 12:38:17 +0000, Andy Hall wrote:

The idea of being able to replenish is a good idea, but I wonder if
most people would bother.

Most people would leave it up to the "compulsary" annual maintenance
inspection.

The acid is not that strong anyway (about like tomato juice)

Thats quite strong in comparison to ordinary rain water and look what
that does to limestone (given enough time...) B-)

I can't help thinking that this is more by way of something to
address the imagined environmental concerns rather than the real
ones.

I'm inclined to agree at 60cm depth it's well below the surface and
the volume must be quite low if a 60cm length of 110mm pipe is
suitable as a soakaway.

Anyone fancy putting a lump of limestone under their condensate drain
to see what happens?

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

The plot thickens. I have continued this in a new thread as the theme has
changed slightly. Please see new posting on the same day as this.

Blueyonder is not good for newsgroups so sorry if this does not appear at
bottom of thread.