I asked a week or so ago about my new SDS drill, which I considered faulty
due to eccentricity in the chuck.

I have now received a replacement from Lawsons, and it is just the same.

I phoned Makita, and got an absolute load of crap from the technical
'expert' I spoke to.
It sounds like Makita know they make rubbish but won't admit it.

I am getting really fed up with the whole thing.

--
Chris Melluish

In article ,
says...
I asked a week or so ago about my new SDS drill, which I considered faulty
due to eccentricity in the chuck.

I have now received a replacement from Lawsons, and it is just the same.

Oh No!

I haven't actually used mine yet (arrived Tuesday). But, putting a bit
in to give it a spin... yes, it's slighly out of true. A wobble of, say
1-2mm on a normal length drill bit..

I also bought a huge long bit (1m) to go through a wall. The wobble on
the end of that is several cm...

So - I've also got two questions...

1) Should I expect to be able to use a 1m bit in this drill?

2) Will using it 'for real' reduce the wobble i.e. because it's stuck in
a hole..?? Or just put strain on the drill and break it sooner..???


Anyone got a Makita they are pleased with, that has no wobble at all?

AJB

AJB wrote:
chris@melluish says...
I asked a week or so ago about my new SDS drill, which I considered faulty
due to eccentricity in the chuck.
I have now received a replacement from Lawsons, and it is just the same.

I also bought a huge long bit (1m) to go through a wall. The wobble on
the end of that is several cm...

So - I've also got two questions...

1) Should I expect to be able to use a 1m bit in this drill?

Yes, of course - however, don't *start* the hole with the long bit!


2) Will using it 'for real' reduce the wobble i.e. because it's stuck in
a hole..?? Or just put strain on the drill and break it sooner..???

These things are "wobbly" anyway, due to the way they're held in the
drill - it might inprove the thing.


Anyone got a Makita they are pleased with, that has no wobble at all?

Not me.

Chris Bacon wrote:
AJB wrote:
chris@melluish says...
I asked a week or so ago about my new SDS drill, which I considered faulty
due to eccentricity in the chuck.
I have now received a replacement from Lawsons, and it is just the same.

I also bought a huge long bit (1m) to go through a wall. The wobble on
the end of that is several cm...

So - I've also got two questions...

1) Should I expect to be able to use a 1m bit in this drill?

Yes, of course - however, don't *start* the hole with the long bit!

2) Will using it 'for real' reduce the wobble i.e. because it's stuck in
a hole..?? Or just put strain on the drill and break it sooner..???
Anyone got a Makita they are pleased with, that has no wobble at all?

I have a Makita HR2450 SDS Drill and I have to say that it rapidly
became the best tool I think I'd purchased.
If I put a bit in the drill and set it going at a medium speed then the
drill bit is slightly off true, nothing massive, but I tiny bit wonky.
That being said, I've never had a sloppy hole from it that wasn't
completely my fault, and it always drills exactly where I want it to,
providing I've made a small pilot or punch to align the tip.
Also, the only drill bit that I've broken in this drill was a very
thing one that I was trying to go to fast for.

I've used this drill with a set of cheapo core fittings to run the
kitchen extractor out the wall and it made it all the way through with
very little variation.

So to give me opinion as I was beginning to waffle:
It seems normal for the drill bits to spin slightly off true when
they're not actually being used to drill and are just spinning in thin
air.
When the drill is actually being used to make holes the bit seems to
spin nice and true.
It doesn't seem to put strain on the bits (I've had my Makita for about
3 years now).
Yes it's perfectly fine for use with long drill bits without having
problems due to spinning off true.
And yes, I'm very happy with my Makita )

Hope this helps a little

Seri

Chris Melluish wrote:
I phoned Makita, and got an absolute load of crap from the technical
'expert' I spoke to.
It sounds like Makita know they make rubbish but won't admit it.

Makita source parts from China - just like some *much*
cheaper machines - if there's a problem, it's with Makita's
quality control.

"Chris Melluish" wrote:

I asked a week or so ago about my new SDS drill, which I considered faulty
due to eccentricity in the chuck.

I have now received a replacement from Lawsons, and it is just the same.

I phoned Makita, and got an absolute load of crap from the technical
'expert' I spoke to.
It sounds like Makita know they make rubbish but won't admit it.

I am getting really fed up with the whole thing.

Here we go, prepare for the flood uk.d-i-y'ers.....

Cue Dribble extolling virtues of cheap tat from B&Q / Aldi / Lidl /
Argos / etc and knocking Makita despite him never owning a single one
of their tools.

Cue Timegoesby saying exactly the same.

Just get a refund Chris (assuming you really are Chris and not another
Dribble clone), go to a proper tool shop that doesn't just sell boxes,
examine and then buy one that isn't eccentric. Spending "Makita money"
means you have a wide choice of other makes that won't break your
wrists.

(BTW Dribble I haven't got a Makita SDS myself nor despite your
ramblings am I Lord Hall)


--

Seri wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
AJB wrote:
chris@melluish says...
I asked a week or so ago about my new SDS drill, which I
considered faulty due to eccentricity in the chuck.
I have now received a replacement from Lawsons, and it is just the
same.

I also bought a huge long bit (1m) to go through a wall. The wobble
on the end of that is several cm...

So - I've also got two questions...

1) Should I expect to be able to use a 1m bit in this drill?

Yes, of course - however, don't *start* the hole with the long bit!

2) Will using it 'for real' reduce the wobble i.e. because it's
stuck in a hole..?? Or just put strain on the drill and break it
sooner..??? Anyone got a Makita they are pleased with, that has no
wobble at all?

I have a Makita HR2450 SDS Drill and I have to say that it rapidly
became the best tool I think I'd purchased.
If I put a bit in the drill and set it going at a medium speed then
the drill bit is slightly off true, nothing massive, but I tiny bit
wonky. That being said, I've never had a sloppy hole from it that
wasn't completely my fault, and it always drills exactly where I want
it to, providing I've made a small pilot or punch to align the tip.
Also, the only drill bit that I've broken in this drill was a very
thing one that I was trying to go to fast for.

I've used this drill with a set of cheapo core fittings to run the
kitchen extractor out the wall and it made it all the way through with
very little variation.

So to give me opinion as I was beginning to waffle:
It seems normal for the drill bits to spin slightly off true when
they're not actually being used to drill and are just spinning in thin
air.
When the drill is actually being used to make holes the bit seems to
spin nice and true.
It doesn't seem to put strain on the bits (I've had my Makita for
about 3 years now).
Yes it's perfectly fine for use with long drill bits without having
problems due to spinning off true.
And yes, I'm very happy with my Makita )

Hope this helps a little

Seri

Is your car all over the road?

--
Sir Benjamin Middlethwaite

Seri wrote:
Chris Bacon wrote:
AJB wrote:
chris@melluish says...
I asked a week or so ago about my new SDS drill, which I considered faulty
due to eccentricity in the chuck.
I have now received a replacement from Lawsons, and it is just the same.

I also bought a huge long bit (1m) to go through a wall. The wobble on
the end of that is several cm...

This sounds completely normal for a 1m bit, if the far end is just
waving around in the breeze, unsupported.

All SDS bits are slightly slack in the chuck, and any sideways swing is
magnified along the length of the bit. In a very long bit, the far end
will whip around exactly as you describe.

So - I've also got two questions...

1) Should I expect to be able to use a 1m bit in this drill?

Yes, of course - however, don't *start* the hole with the long bit!

Just so. Start with a normal 150mm bit, to the full depth, and then step
up to a 450mm bit before finally switching to the 1m long one.

If you go straight from the 150mm to the 1m, you'll find that a lot of
the hammer force is lost because the bit bows in the middle. That is why
you should never use a longer bit than you really need. If you're
drilling through a normal double wall, the 450mm bit is long enough, so
that's the one you need. If you really need a deeper hole, the next
commonly available length is 1m, but you'll find it works much better in
a hole that is already 450mm deep.

2) Will using it 'for real' reduce the wobble i.e. because it's stuck in
a hole..?? Or just put strain on the drill and break it sooner..???

Sorry, but that question has all the signs of someone who hasn't
actually drilled a hole. Just do it - but *always* start with a shorter,
stiffer bit. You'll soon get the hang of it (unless, of course, the
chuck really is badly out of true... but frankly I'm beginning to doubt
that).

The other issue that you haven't encountered yet is clearance of waste
dust from the flutes of the bit. With a very long bit, this will quickly
make the drill start to labour, so pull back frequently to clear the
dust.

Anyone got a Makita they are pleased with, that has no wobble at all?

I have a Makita HR2450 SDS Drill and I have to say that it rapidly
became the best tool I think I'd purchased.
If I put a bit in the drill and set it going at a medium speed then the
drill bit is slightly off true, nothing massive, but I tiny bit wonky.
That being said, I've never had a sloppy hole from it that wasn't
completely my fault, and it always drills exactly where I want it to,
providing I've made a small pilot or punch to align the tip.

Same drill, same experiences - including using a 12mm x 1m bit to drill
several full-depth holes into rock, and also through about 0.6m of solid
engineering brick. It's a bit rough on the person holding the drill, but
no problem for the drill itself.


--
Ian White

I have a Makita HR2450 SDS Drill and I have to say that it rapidly
became the best tool I think I'd purchased.
If I put a bit in the drill and set it going at a medium speed then the
drill bit is slightly off true, nothing massive, but I tiny bit wonky.


So, that's 3 out of 3 Makitas on the ****. So much for getting what you
pay for.

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I have a Makita HR2450 SDS Drill and I have to say that it rapidly
became the best tool I think I'd purchased. If I put a bit in the
drill and set it going at a medium speed then the drill bit is
slightly off true, nothing massive, but I tiny bit wonky.


So, that's 3 out of 3 Makitas on the ****. So much for getting what you
pay for.

I'd say any SDS drill run up with a bit in place but not drilling would
show signs of being 'off true'.

--
*Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Stuart Noble wrote:
I have a Makita HR2450 SDS Drill and I have to say that it rapidly
became the best tool I think I'd purchased.
If I put a bit in the drill and set it going at a medium speed then the
drill bit is slightly off true, nothing massive, but I tiny bit wonky.


So, that's 3 out of 3 Makitas on the ****. So much for getting what you
pay for.

I'm not one to fly the flag for expensive power tools and p*ss on
Aldi/Lidl/Argos stuff but in this case I think it's more important on
how the drill performs when actually drilling a hole rather than just
running the drill in the air.

"Chris Melluish" wrote in message
...
I asked a week or so ago about my new SDS drill, which I considered faulty
due to eccentricity in the chuck.

I have now received a replacement from Lawsons, and it is just the same.

I phoned Makita, and got an absolute load of crap from the technical
'expert' I spoke to.
It sounds like Makita know they make rubbish but won't admit it.

I am getting really fed up with the whole thing.

Send it back and get a ryobi. The aldi SDSs have all been sold so you lost
out on that one.

"Matt" aka Lord Hall wrote in message
...
"Chris Melluish" wrote:

I asked a week or so ago about my new SDS drill, which I considered
faulty
due to eccentricity in the chuck.

I have now received a replacement from Lawsons, and it is just the same.

I phoned Makita, and got an absolute load of crap from the technical
'expert' I spoke to.
It sounds like Makita know they make rubbish but won't admit it.

I am getting really fed up with the whole thing.

Here we go, prepare for the flood uk.d-i-y'ers.....

Lord Hall, at Makita Mansion, are the Makita manuals you have under your
pillow stuck together?

AJB wrote:

So - I've also got two questions...

1) Should I expect to be able to use a 1m bit in this drill?

Yup, used one in mine without any difficulty.

2) Will using it 'for real' reduce the wobble i.e. because it's stuck in
a hole..?? Or just put strain on the drill and break it sooner..???

Try it and see. Are you sure the wobble you are seeing is not just
backlash intrinsic to the design of the SDS chuck? If so you should find
it all runs true when drilling.

Anyone got a Makita they are pleased with, that has no wobble at all?

Yes, me! Not aware of any wobble when drilling.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Chris Melluish wrote:

I phoned Makita, and got an absolute load of crap from the technical
'expert' I spoke to.

What did he say?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:

I have a Makita HR2450 SDS Drill and I have to say that it rapidly
became the best tool I think I'd purchased. If I put a bit in the
drill and set it going at a medium speed then the drill bit is
slightly off true, nothing massive, but I tiny bit wonky.



So, that's 3 out of 3 Makitas on the ****. So much for getting what you
pay for.


I'd say any SDS drill run up with a bit in place but not drilling would
show signs of being 'off true'.


I expect any drill to run true, or it goes back to Woolworths.

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Chris Melluish wrote:

I phoned Makita, and got an absolute load of crap from the technical
'expert' I spoke to.

What did he say?

He referred him to Matt/Lord Hall

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I'd say any SDS drill run up with a bit in place but not drilling would
show signs of being 'off true'.

I expect any drill to run true, or it goes back to Woolworths.

I'd expect that of a drill with a normal chuck. But the SDS one is
different. It wasn't designed for accurate drilling.

--
*When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:

I'd say any SDS drill run up with a bit in place but not drilling would
show signs of being 'off true'.


I expect any drill to run true, or it goes back to Woolworths.


I'd expect that of a drill with a normal chuck. But the SDS one is
different. It wasn't designed for accurate drilling.


So the Makita is likely to drill oversize holes for critical things like
rawlbolts? I don't see that drilling into masonry needs less accuracy

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
I'd expect that of a drill with a normal chuck. But the SDS one is
different. It wasn't designed for accurate drilling.

So the Makita is likely to drill oversize holes for critical things like
rawlbolts? I don't see that drilling into masonry needs less accuracy

No. The size of the hole is determined by the drill bit. 'Slop' in the
chuck, etc, makes no difference to this.

--
*Time is fun when you're having flies... Kermit

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'd expect that of a drill with a normal chuck. But the SDS one is
different. It wasn't designed for accurate drilling.

Agreed, but I find my cheapo SDS (which has variable speed) drills much more
accurate holes than a percussion drill. Less wander on starting and a
tighter fit for the plug.

Dave

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

So the Makita is likely to drill oversize holes for critical things like
rawlbolts? I don't see that drilling into masonry needs less accuracy


No. The size of the hole is determined by the drill bit. 'Slop' in the
chuck, etc, makes no difference to this.

Alot depends here on if the OP is just mistaking the (normal) play
inherent in the SDS design for a fault, or whether there is a genuine
fault in the one(s) he has.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
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\================================================= ================/

david lang wrote:

Agreed, but I find my cheapo SDS (which has variable speed) drills much more
accurate holes than a percussion drill. Less wander on starting and a
tighter fit for the plug.

I find the same - probably because you can make the hole so much faster
there is far less time for the bit to wander off centre.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John Rumm wrote:
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

So the Makita is likely to drill oversize holes for critical things
like rawlbolts? I don't see that drilling into masonry needs less
accuracy
No. The size of the hole is determined by the drill bit. 'Slop' in
the
chuck, etc, makes no difference to this.

Alot depends here on if the OP is just mistaking the (normal) play
inherent in the SDS design for a fault, or whether there is a genuine
fault in the one(s) he has.

He certainly seems to be mistaking a few cm of 'whip' in an unsupported
1m bit as a fault; which it isn't. It's completely normal, and would
still occur with a chuck that is perfectly centred.


--
Ian White

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

So the Makita is likely to drill oversize holes for critical things like
rawlbolts? I don't see that drilling into masonry needs less accuracy


No. The size of the hole is determined by the drill bit. 'Slop' in the
chuck, etc, makes no difference to this.

Alot depends here on if the OP is just mistaking the (normal) play
inherent in the SDS design for a fault, or whether there is a genuine
fault in the one(s) he has.

--
Cheers,

John.


OP here.

I believe that if it were slack in the chuck then, when drilling a hole at
slow speed, I would be able to manipulate the body of the drill so as to
eliminate the 'wobble'. I cannot do this.


--
Chris Melluish

"John Rumm" wrote in message
...
Chris Melluish wrote:

I phoned Makita, and got an absolute load of crap from the technical
'expert' I spoke to.

What did he say?

--
Cheers,

John.

Basically that this was normal, I obviously didn't understand how the drills
were made, and that they were all the same. He kept going on about me using
chuck adapters and I kept telling him I was not using one - I was fitting
SDS drill bit directly into the machine.

He kept going on about how these drills have to have some slack in the chuck
to allow the hammer action to work.

I pointed out that my old Wickes drill still drills perfectly straight
holes, with no wobble at all, after seven years of abuse. The problem with
it is the hammer actions is not working too well. He said he did not believe
me.

I also asked him whether it was counterfeit, and he confirmed it was genuine
after I described the label to him.

--
Chris Melluish

Chris Melluish wrote:

OP here.

I believe that if it were slack in the chuck then, when drilling a hole at
slow speed, I would be able to manipulate the body of the drill so as to
eliminate the 'wobble'. I cannot do this.

That does sound like a faulty unit (or possibly batch). Generally I have
not felt any wobble in my one (using a SDS bit directly in the machine)
nor any of the other two examples of the same model I have tried,
although on one occation I did get something like what you describe
which IIRC turned out to be the nose cone of the drill not springing
back into correct alignment. This was while the drill was very new, a
bit of a wiggle in and out sorted it, and it has not happened since.

I might be inclined to drill a dozen test holes into something hard just
to make sure it is not a case of something needing to "bed in".


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Chris Melluish wrote:

I believe that if it were slack in the chuck then, when drilling a hole at
slow speed, I would be able to manipulate the body of the drill so as to
eliminate the 'wobble'. I cannot do this.

Don't know if this is any help, but I was in the workshop a little while
ago and thought I would try an experiment to see what happens with my one:

Using a 10mm 400mm long SDS bit in the drill with hammer off, I pushed
the tip lightly against the workbench and spun it up slowly. I noticed
that if I allowed the bit to carry the weight of the drill (i.e. holding
it only by the back handle) or pushed the body of the drill to the side
a little I could see some wobble at the front of the drill (not much,
perhaps half a cm). I found that by holding the drill by both handles I
could however find a middle position where there was no wobble. I
repeated this with another bit and got simmilar although slightly
different results. It seems the amount of wobble I could get was
partially dependent on the drill bit. So my guess is I was just feeling
/ seeing the amount of slop alowed by the flutes on the shank of the bit
at certain angular positions.

I tried with a 7/180mm bit and could not feel anything while using it as
descibed above, although when holding the drill horizontally with the
bit turning in free space I could see approx a 1 to 2 mm of latteral
movement on the point of the bit.

It sounds like you are seeing much more movement than this though?

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
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| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"Chris Melluish" wrote:

I also asked him whether it was counterfeit, and he confirmed it was genuine
after I described the label to him.

So the counterfeiters can copy a drill almost perfectly but not the
label?

--

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:

I'd expect that of a drill with a normal chuck. But the SDS one is
different. It wasn't designed for accurate drilling.


So the Makita is likely to drill oversize holes for critical things like
rawlbolts? I don't see that drilling into masonry needs less accuracy


No. The size of the hole is determined by the drill bit. 'Slop' in the
chuck, etc, makes no difference to this.


So you get the right sized hole but you can't guarantee where it's going
to be.

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
No. The size of the hole is determined by the drill bit. 'Slop' in the
chuck, etc, makes no difference to this.

So you get the right sized hole but you can't guarantee where it's going
to be.

You can't anyway when drilling masonry. ;-)

--
*Tell me to 'stuff it' - I'm a taxidermist.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:

No. The size of the hole is determined by the drill bit. 'Slop' in the
chuck, etc, makes no difference to this.


So you get the right sized hole but you can't guarantee where it's going
to be.


You can't anyway when drilling masonry. ;-)


No point putting a spirit level on your shelves then?
I think we're being a bit too kind to Makita here. Sounds to me like
they're trading on their name and cutting corners, which has to a
temptation in a throwaway culture

In article ,
Stuart Noble wrote:
No. The size of the hole is determined by the drill bit. 'Slop' in the
chuck, etc, makes no difference to this.

So you get the right sized hole but you can't guarantee where it's
going to be.

You can't anyway when drilling masonry. ;-)

No point putting a spirit level on your shelves then?

Are you saying that every time you drill into masonry the hole is
*exactly* in the right place? Without using a guide of some sort? If so
you're far more skilled than me. ;-)

I think we're being a bit too kind to Makita here. Sounds to me like
they're trading on their name and cutting corners, which has to a
temptation in a throwaway culture.

Could be, but if I put a long drill in my DeWalt and run it up to full
speed it wobbles about also. I'd not expect anything else with an SDS
which doesn't clamp the drill in place - nor expect a drill bit to be made
to the accuracy needed to make it run true under this theoretical
situation.

--
*Red meat is not bad for you. Fuzzy green meat is bad for you.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.