Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just told
us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a contract
for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra £746 to do the
job. The reason being for something that they openly admit to having not
costed up.

Apparently this is a fairly common occurence with double glazing sales. The
company we're dealing claim it's only the second time they've had to do it.

I have sort legal advice and have been told that they're plainly in breach
of contract, but the installer claims that in their T&C's "the price is
subject to a survey". However, the survey was done at the time of signing
the contract.

Although they're very apollogetic and have offered to refund our deposit -
it's all very annoying and a matter of budgets and principles.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:58:48 +0100, "RedOnRed" scrawled:

Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just told
us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a contract
for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra £746 to do the
job. The reason being for something that they openly admit to having not
costed up.

Their problem, not yours.

Apparently this is a fairly common occurence with double glazing sales. The
company we're dealing claim it's only the second time they've had to do it.

Bet they say that to everyone.

I have sort legal advice and have been told that they're plainly in breach
of contract, but the installer claims that in their T&C's "the price is
subject to a survey". However, the survey was done at the time of signing
the contract.

Then it's up to them to do the survey properly. If they didn't then
they're in the wrong.

Although they're very apollogetic and have offered to refund our deposit -
it's all very annoying and a matter of budgets and principles.

I'd go with someone else.

If it were me that had misquoted a job, and if it was only the 2nd
time I had done it ever in the history of the business, I would write
it off as one of those things. If they are asking for more money they
have done this before and should be strung up.
--
Stuart @ SJW Electrical

Please Reply to group

You are obviously happy with the company, that is why you chose them.

They make very good windows and have shown me the best product by far. Other
then this incident, they're also very good to deal with.

If after the price increase you still think you are getting a good
deal, accept the apology and go ahead.

The price is still very good, even after the stealth increase.

If the price increase means you feel you are not getting a good deal,
accept their apology, take the refunded deposit and go to another
company.
Possibly there might be a breach of contract, do you really want all
the stress and aggravation of pursuing it?


The problem is that I still want the work done but at the orginally quoted
price. Which is fair enough really.

I don't really want the stress and aggravation of pursuing it, but i've been
advised that if I accept my deposit back i'll be cancelling the contract. As
they're in breach of contract then I should have case (albeit possibley a
very long one) of getting them to do it at the original price.

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:58:48 +0100, RedOnRed wrote:

Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

I should imagine it has and proably fairly often by this company,
dispite what they say. I bet there are many people who would just buy
the sob story and pay the "increase".

I have sort legal advice and have been told that they're plainly in
breach of contract, but the installer claims that in their T&C's
"the price is subject to a survey". However, the survey was done at
the time of signing the contract.

Stand your ground. IANAL but I agree with that advice they are in
breach of contract. I doubt you can force them to install at the
contracted price and would you want to let such doubtful people into
your home?

If you still want to go ahead I'd get detailed, written, information
about what they have failed to cost up and compare it very closely
with the quote in the contract. I'd then make 110% sure that that
missing cost actually appeared or the work done.

Personally I'd have a word with the local trading standards office and
see if the company has any "history". If so get my deposit back and
make a formal complaint to the TSO and name and shame as much as
possible (legally of course).

it's all very annoying and a matter of budgets and principles.

Quite they are hoping that after a 2 month wait and 2 weeks to go
you'll say oh begger it I'll pay. Rather than go through all the sales
pitch, hassel and wait involved in starting again with another
company.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

As it's their fault, but you still want them to do the work, make them an
offer!
You can plead poverty and say "I want you guys to do the work, I'm impressed
with the product and may be able to raise an additional..... but that really
is the limit".
This way both parties save face.
Make sure you leave a bit back though.
So if you think that an additional 400 will swing it and you would be happy
to pay this, offer 350 so they can barter you up a bit.

Phil

"TheScullster" wrote in message
...
As it's their fault, but you still want them to do the work, make them an
offer!
You can plead poverty and say "I want you guys to do the work, I'm
impressed with the product and may be able to raise an additional..... but
that really is the limit".
This way both parties save face.
Make sure you leave a bit back though.
So if you think that an additional 400 will swing it and you would be
happy to pay this, offer 350 so they can barter you up a bit.

Phil


I'm not sure if paying the extra will save face on my behalf, when they're
contractually bound to do the work for the contracted price.

I do see your point though.

Here's an interesting link that someone has provided...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/askthe...s/serv05.shtml

"RedOnRed" wrote in message
...
Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just
told us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a
contract for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra £746
to do the job. The reason being for something that they openly admit to
having not costed up.

Apparently this is a fairly common occurence with double glazing sales.
The company we're dealing claim it's only the second time they've had to
do it.

I have sort legal advice and have been told that they're plainly in breach
of contract, but the installer claims that in their T&C's "the price is
subject to a survey". However, the survey was done at the time of signing
the contract.

Although they're very apollogetic and have offered to refund our deposit -
it's all very annoying and a matter of budgets and principles.

Dunno where you live but if it's near Preston, Lancashire, dump this lot and
go to Sharbeck Windows. They're just a two-man firm who've been in business
since 1978. They're listed in Yellow Pages but they don't actually advertise
anywhere as they don't need to - they get all their work through
word-of-mouth, personal recommendations from their satisfied customers (and
yes, I'm one of them - no affiliation other than that).

John.

"John" wrote in message
...

"RedOnRed" wrote in message
...
Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just
told us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a
contract for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra
£746 to do the job. The reason being for something that they openly admit
to having not costed up.

Apparently this is a fairly common occurence with double glazing sales.
The company we're dealing claim it's only the second time they've had to
do it.

I have sort legal advice and have been told that they're plainly in
breach of contract, but the installer claims that in their T&C's "the
price is subject to a survey". However, the survey was done at the time
of signing the contract.

Although they're very apollogetic and have offered to refund our
deposit - it's all very annoying and a matter of budgets and principles.

Dunno where you live but if it's near Preston, Lancashire, dump this lot
and go to Sharbeck Windows. They're just a two-man firm who've been in
business since 1978. They're listed in Yellow Pages but they don't
actually advertise anywhere as they don't need to - they get all their
work through word-of-mouth, personal recommendations from their satisfied
customers (and yes, I'm one of them - no affiliation other than that).

John.


Sounds good.

Do you think they'd travel 150 miles down to Milton Keynes?

I could put them up in a nice posh Travel Lodge.

In article , says...
Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just told
us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a contract
for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra £746 to dothe
job. The reason being for something that they openly admit to having not
costed up.

(Details snipped)

Since you have already received legal and negotiating advice in this
thread I will pass over those bits, apart from one observation:

The legality issue will rest upon how many visits you have had from the
company. The "Subject to Survey" is inevitable and essential when the
company sends a salesman to negotiate a deal with the customer.

Here's how it normally works.
The salesman establishes your requirements for location and style of
window. He measures the apertures and then calculates a price based on
these factors. If you agree the price he draws up the contract which you
sign. Shortly after this meeting the Surveyor will visit. His job is to
verify the technical details of the contract. Are the sizes correct, will
the designs work in the locations specfied, do you need special glass,
can the windows be made to the agreed plan?
If the salesman has done his job properly, then there will be no need for
amendment. HOWEVER........

There are three main areas that catch salesman out:
1. Box sash work
2. Bays
3. Maximum sizes (for a given style)

There are of course others but they are less common.

The surveyor's data is the basis for the fabrication of the windows, not
the salesman's. If the surveyor finds errors, the price is recalculated.
Hence "Subject to Survey".

Now, if you only had one visit, salesman/surveyor combined, (happens with
smaller companies) then your original contract has been surveyed and is
probably valid. If you had two visits, the second was the survey and your
original contract was -- you know the rest.

If I were in your situation (you like the product and the company but not
the new price) I would follow advice given previously and talk them into
a deal they can't refuse. They want your business as much as you want
the windows.

Hope you get what you want.

Ziggur

"S'ils te mordent, mords-les"

"Ziggur" wrote in message
T...
In article , says...
Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just
told
us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a contract
for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra £746 to do
the
job. The reason being for something that they openly admit to having not
costed up.

(Details snipped)

Since you have already received legal and negotiating advice in this
thread I will pass over those bits, apart from one observation:

The legality issue will rest upon how many visits you have had from the
company. The "Subject to Survey" is inevitable and essential when the
company sends a salesman to negotiate a deal with the customer.

Here's how it normally works.
The salesman establishes your requirements for location and style of
window. He measures the apertures and then calculates a price based on
these factors. If you agree the price he draws up the contract which you
sign. Shortly after this meeting the Surveyor will visit. His job is to
verify the technical details of the contract. Are the sizes correct, will
the designs work in the locations specfied, do you need special glass,
can the windows be made to the agreed plan?
If the salesman has done his job properly, then there will be no need for
amendment. HOWEVER........

There are three main areas that catch salesman out:
1. Box sash work
2. Bays
3. Maximum sizes (for a given style)

There are of course others but they are less common.

The surveyor's data is the basis for the fabrication of the windows, not
the salesman's. If the surveyor finds errors, the price is recalculated.
Hence "Subject to Survey".

Now, if you only had one visit, salesman/surveyor combined, (happens with
smaller companies) then your original contract has been surveyed and is
probably valid. If you had two visits, the second was the survey and your
original contract was -- you know the rest.

If I were in your situation (you like the product and the company but not
the new price) I would follow advice given previously and talk them into
a deal they can't refuse. They want your business as much as you want
the windows.

Hope you get what you want.

Ziggur

"S'ils te mordent, mords-les"

--------------------------------------------------------

Many thanks for your comments.

The key thing is in relation to your suggestions is that I did in fact have
a combined survey/pricing/contract appointment with them, where they
actually came round and measured up and we then sorted out the contract.

Prior to that i'd had a single visit where we'd just discussed a rough
price.

I don't really want to have to pay extra when I shouldn't contractually be
obliged to, but at the same time accept the point that there's no point in
forcing someone into doing a job reluctantly - especially with all the
overall cost involved.

I suppose I might ring 'em up cap in hand tomorrow and make out can they
meet me half way.

Watch this space...lol

RedOnRed wrote:
"John" wrote in message
Dunno where you live but if it's near Preston, Lancashire, dump this lot
and go to Sharbeck Windows.

Do you think they'd travel 150 miles down to Milton Keynes?

I could put them up in a nice posh Travel Lodge.

Maybe. The one at Old Stratfart, or even the one at Marston,
at about 30 squiddicks a night it's just bearable. Not the
one in the shtty centre. I have done this.

In article , says...
Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just told
us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a contract
for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra £746 to dothe
job. The reason being for something that they openly admit to having not
costed up.

Technically I think you could get another company to do the work and sue
the original contractor for "loss of bargain" to get the difference in
prices, but it's really one for the legal groups. Maybe if you suggest
to the original contractor that that's what you might do then they might
honour the original price - if they do then just make sure that they do
the job properly or it could drag on for ages.

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article , says...
Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just
told
us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a contract
for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra £746 to do
the
job. The reason being for something that they openly admit to having not
costed up.

Technically I think you could get another company to do the work and sue
the original contractor for "loss of bargain" to get the difference in
prices, but it's really one for the legal groups. Maybe if you suggest
to the original contractor that that's what you might do then they might
honour the original price - if they do then just make sure that they do
the job properly or it could drag on for ages.

----------------------------------------------------------

The only thing is that there quote is very competitive. For example, I rang
another company yesterday, gave them the measurements over the phone and
they then rang me back with a rough quote for £3000 more then the company
upping their price.

I just don't want to be out of pocket for someone elses oversight. Imagine
me saying there's actually a couple more windows that I forgot to mention.
Well i'd have to pay for those for forgetting to mention them. They've
ballsed up so they should incur the costs.

RedOnRed wrote:
The only thing is that there quote is very competitive. For example, I rang
another company yesterday, gave them the measurements over the phone and
they then rang me back with a rough quote for £3000 more then the company
upping their price.

I just don't want to be out of pocket for someone elses oversight. Imagine
me saying there's actually a couple more windows that I forgot to mention.
Well i'd have to pay for those for forgetting to mention them. They've
ballsed up so they should incur the costs.

I think that if they made a genuine mistake, then you should go with
them at their revised price. If there's actually a contract between
you try to compromise. It will cause hard feeling, put yourself in
their shoes. Would you expect the best job from someone willingly
working for you, or at least working without rancour, or someone
you've forced to work for you by means of (legal) threats? If I were
them, and I even had a hint of this sort of stuff going on, I'd drop
the job immediately, regardless. So they've apologised, and offered
to refund your deposit. Sounds fair.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "RedOnRed" saying
something like:

The only thing is that there quote is very competitive. For example, I rang
another company yesterday, gave them the measurements over the phone and
they then rang me back with a rough quote for £3000 more then the company
upping their price.

I just don't want to be out of pocket for someone elses oversight. Imagine
me saying there's actually a couple more windows that I forgot to mention.
Well i'd have to pay for those for forgetting to mention them. They've
ballsed up so they should incur the costs.

It's hardly their fault your house is awkward to work on. The survey
should have picked that up, but I'd be surprised if E&OE wasn't on the
contract somewhere.
--

Dave

"Grimly Curmudgeon" wrote in message
...
We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "RedOnRed" saying
something like:

The only thing is that there quote is very competitive. For example, I
rang
another company yesterday, gave them the measurements over the phone and
they then rang me back with a rough quote for £3000 more then the company
upping their price.

I just don't want to be out of pocket for someone elses oversight. Imagine
me saying there's actually a couple more windows that I forgot to mention.
Well i'd have to pay for those for forgetting to mention them. They've
ballsed up so they should incur the costs.

It's hardly their fault your house is awkward to work on. The survey
should have picked that up, but I'd be surprised if E&OE wasn't on the
contract somewhere.
--

Dave

Yes, it is hardly their fault that our house is awkward to work on and the
survey should have picked it up, but which one is your point there?

What is "E&OE"?

On Fri, 14 Oct 2005 06:59:07 +0100, RedOnRed wrote:

What is "E&OE"?

'Errors and Omissions Excepted' I believe.

--
Regards
Tony
(Take out the garbage to reply)

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:58:48 +0100, "RedOnRed" wrote:

Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just told
us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a contract
for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra £746 to do the
job. The reason being for something that they openly admit to having not
costed up.

Apparently this is a fairly common occurence with double glazing sales. The
company we're dealing claim it's only the second time they've had to do it.

I have sort legal advice and have been told that they're plainly in breach
of contract, but the installer claims that in their T&C's "the price is
subject to a survey". However, the survey was done at the time of signing
the contract.

Although they're very apollogetic and have offered to refund our deposit -
it's all very annoying and a matter of budgets and principles.


You could force them to do it for the price, but then they may go out
of their way to make loads of anoying mistakes, and really mess you
arround. Imagine them accidently smashing a window pane when fitting,
and you having to wait 4 weeks for a new one .........

I'd get my money back and run - very fast.

Rick

Rick wrote:
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:58:48 +0100, "RedOnRed" wrote:

Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else...

Two weeks before our double glazing is due to be installed they've just told
us that they can't actually do it for the price that we signed a contract
for 2 months ago. They're now saying that they need an extra £746 to do the
job. The reason being for something that they openly admit to having not
costed up.

Apparently this is a fairly common occurence with double glazing sales. The
company we're dealing claim it's only the second time they've had to do it.

I have sort legal advice and have been told that they're plainly in breach
of contract, but the installer claims that in their T&C's "the price is
subject to a survey". However, the survey was done at the time of signing
the contract.

Although they're very apollogetic and have offered to refund our deposit-
it's all very annoying and a matter of budgets and principles.


You could force them to do it for the price, but then they may go out
of their way to make loads of anoying mistakes, and really mess you
arround. Imagine them accidently smashing a window pane when fitting,
and you having to wait 4 weeks for a new one .........

I'd get my money back and run - very fast.

Rick


But the buyer holds the money, and wont be paying a cent until
everythings shipshape. If theyre sensible.

If I didnt /need/ the work to be done, I would probably write them a
letter saying I was very unhappy at this indeed, this was most
unprofessional, and would be checking the work they did on (insert
date) carefully and thoroughly, and that I was not interested in
renegotiating the price already agreed.

If I really needed it done, I'd go for what someoene else suggested,
and say grumble grumble, well look at the end of the day I've found
£300 more but thats all I can do, take it or dont.

Either way be aware its a classic scam, so you know who and what youre
dealing with. If you go ahead, do not pay them one single penny until
everything is satisfactory, ensure a witness is present at install
time, and if they leave with anything left unsatisfactory, take
pictures. Do not have any means of payment present on the day in case
youre tempted, tell them to send you the bill.


NT