Hello!

I was about to install a diy phone extension when I decided to investigate
the contents of a blanked off 'socket' in my hallway (where I was to put the
extension). It turns out that the blanked off extension houses a phone
lead, all looped up and ready to go. I assume the lead comes FROM the aster
socket in the lounge and goes to the socket upstairs. Problem solved...
but...

I will of course not need to fit the extension any more (good - no need to
cleat lots of wire along the back of the lounge and/or drill nasty holes
everywhere) but I am a bit confused.

I've looked in the master socket (naughty me) and seen how it is wired.
Yes - that's easy.
I've looked in the upstairs socket and seen how that is wired - easy again.

But the 'blanked' socket houses a big white wire going between other
sockets. Surely the wires contained 'within' won't have 'ends' to attach
to the socket?

How can I connect this safely so that everything else continues to work.
I've looked at http://tinyurl.com/aglx7 and that explains things well but
doesn't account for the fact that all the sockets I've seen require the
'ends' of wires (and the special tools I've read about cut off the unused
bits so you can't simply push the middle of the wired onto the connections
in such a way that they continue their journey up to the next socket).

I hope I've made myself clear!

Any suggestions would be very welcome indeed.

Regards,

Daz

PS I almost had heart failure after looking inside the master socket -
everything stopped working after I replaced the socket. It turns out that
one of the 2 wires in the no 2 connector had worked loose (it was VERY messy
in there)!

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 00:34:46 +0100, "Kroma"
wrote:

Hello!

I was about to install a diy phone extension when I decided to investigate
the contents of a blanked off 'socket' in my hallway (where I was to put the
extension). It turns out that the blanked off extension houses a phone
lead, all looped up and ready to go. I assume the lead comes FROM the aster
socket in the lounge and goes to the socket upstairs. Problem solved...
but...

I will of course not need to fit the extension any more (good - no need to
cleat lots of wire along the back of the lounge and/or drill nasty holes
everywhere) but I am a bit confused.

I've looked in the master socket (naughty me) and seen how it is wired.
Yes - that's easy.
I've looked in the upstairs socket and seen how that is wired - easy again.

But the 'blanked' socket houses a big white wire going between other
sockets. Surely the wires contained 'within' won't have 'ends' to attach
to the socket?

How can I connect this safely so that everything else continues to work.
I've looked at http://tinyurl.com/aglx7 and that explains things well but
doesn't account for the fact that all the sockets I've seen require the
'ends' of wires (and the special tools I've read about cut off the unused
bits so you can't simply push the middle of the wired onto the connections
in such a way that they continue their journey up to the next socket).

I hope I've made myself clear!

Any suggestions would be very welcome indeed.

Regards,

Daz

Without actually seeing what you describe I would imagine that what
you are seeing is the phone wire complete with it's outer sheathing
.......If you CAREFULLY peel back the outer insulation you will find
the various coloured wires within and it is those that you need to
connect to the new phone socket as per the appropriate instructions
..As you suggest it is best to use the appropriate tool to insert the
wires without removing the insulation from these coloured wires .You
can get these from various outlets incl Maplins etc .

Stuart





--

Shift THELEVER to reply.

"Stuart" wrote in message
...

Without actually seeing what you describe I would imagine that what
you are seeing is the phone wire complete with it's outer sheathing
......If you CAREFULLY peel back the outer insulation you will find
the various coloured wires within and it is those that you need to
connect to the new phone socket as per the appropriate instructions
.As you suggest it is best to use the appropriate tool to insert the
wires without removing the insulation from these coloured wires .You
can get these from various outlets incl Maplins etc .

Stuart

Yes, that's what I meant. But when I peel back the white sheathing, won't I
just get 8 (or 10) coloured bits which are on their way upstairs? How do I
get them connected to a new socket AND let them continue their journey
upstairs?

Daz

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 00:00:37 UTC, "Kroma"
wrote:

"Stuart" wrote in message
...

Without actually seeing what you describe I would imagine that what
you are seeing is the phone wire complete with it's outer sheathing
......If you CAREFULLY peel back the outer insulation you will find
the various coloured wires within and it is those that you need to
connect to the new phone socket as per the appropriate instructions
.As you suggest it is best to use the appropriate tool to insert the
wires without removing the insulation from these coloured wires .You
can get these from various outlets incl Maplins etc .

Yes, that's what I meant. But when I peel back the white sheathing, won't I
just get 8 (or 10) coloured bits which are on their way upstairs? How do I
get them connected to a new socket AND let them continue their journey
upstairs?

Well, you cut them, then connect the ends to the same terminal in each
case as they are in the extension upstairs. If there are any that aren't
used, don't cut them.

BEWARE - you must disconnect the whole circuit from the phone line
first. This is normally done by removing the lower front half of the
master socket. If it has a one piece front, you're out of your depth
because you aren't supposed to touch it. Best plan then is to get it
converted by BT and then go ahead with the extension.

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://laminateflooring.oncloud8.com

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 01:00:37 +0100, "Kroma"
wrote:


"Stuart" wrote in message
.. .

Without actually seeing what you describe I would imagine that what
you are seeing is the phone wire complete with it's outer sheathing
......If you CAREFULLY peel back the outer insulation you will find
the various coloured wires within and it is those that you need to
connect to the new phone socket as per the appropriate instructions
.As you suggest it is best to use the appropriate tool to insert the
wires without removing the insulation from these coloured wires .You
can get these from various outlets incl Maplins etc .

Stuart

Yes, that's what I meant. But when I peel back the white sheathing, won't I
just get 8 (or 10) coloured bits which are on their way upstairs? How do I
get them connected to a new socket AND let them continue their journey
upstairs?

Daz


You probably wont need to cut them, in fact if there is not a lot of
slack in the cable, you're probably better off NOT doing so.

Simply insert the correct colour wire in the appropriate slot and
push. Job done.

Andy

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:28:19 +0100, Andy Pandy wrote:

You probably wont need to cut them, in fact if there is not a lot of
slack in the cable, you're probably better off NOT doing so.

The amount of slack really does affect how to proceed. There really
needs to be a loop about a foot long overall to give space to work
comfortably.

As to the OP being worried about the lack of "ends" when he cuts the
cable (assuming there is enough slack...) he will have two ends.
Simply put both ends of each same coloured wire, the same direction on
top of each other into the appropiate IDC slot and make the connection
as normal.

-----+
\___IDC___ rather than ---- IDC ----
/
-----+



Simply insert the correct colour wire in the appropriate slot and
push. Job done.

The proper tool trims the "excess" wire automagically. B-) OK the
bit of plastic that comes in the kits doesn't but then it's hardly up
to making one IDC connection let alone 6. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Yes, that's what I meant. But when I peel back the white sheathing, won't
I
just get 8 (or 10) coloured bits which are on their way upstairs? How do
I
get them connected to a new socket AND let them continue their journey
upstairs?

Even if the tool has a cutter, it is usually possible to turn it off. You
can then connect up without cutting the wires, which will probably be good
if there is insufficient slack.

Christian.

"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...

BEWARE - you must disconnect the whole circuit from the phone line
first. This is normally done by removing the lower front half of the
master socket. If it has a one piece front, you're out of your depth
because you aren't supposed to touch it. Best plan then is to get it
converted by BT and then go ahead with the extension.

Ah - my master socket is a one-piece. Strange, as the house I've just moved
into was built circa 1990.

Will BT convert me to a 2-piece master socket for free?

I guess if I were to go ahead and touch the 1-piece master socket anyway,
I'd simply have to detach the wires and reinsert them after the job is done?
Actually, the wires in the master socket aren't fitted very well anyway as
when I had a quick look inside (before realising that it WAS a master
socket) one of the wires in position 2 fell out unbeknown to me and stopped
everything from working. It was simple to diagnose and rectify though. The
socket will be unscrewed again next week as I'm wallpapering and painting.

Daz

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message
ll.com...
On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 07:28:19 +0100, Andy Pandy wrote:

As to the OP being worried about the lack of "ends" when he cuts the
cable (assuming there is enough slack...) he will have two ends.
Simply put both ends of each same coloured wire, the same direction on
top of each other into the appropiate IDC slot and make the connection
as normal.

In the master socket, slots 2 and 5 house 2 wires each. I've read that the
IDC slots only hold a maximum of 2 wires and doubling up like this would
require 4 wires in slots 2 and 5. How do I get round this?

Thanks,

Daz

I guess if I were to go ahead and touch the 1-piece master socket anyway,
I'd simply have to detach the wires and reinsert them after the job is
done?

If you want. I wouldn't even bother disconnecting.

Don't worry about it. Just make the connections.

Christian.

In the master socket, slots 2 and 5 house 2 wires each. I've read that
the
IDC slots only hold a maximum of 2 wires and doubling up like this would
require 4 wires in slots 2 and 5. How do I get round this?

The cable passing through your target box should only have a single
conductor per slot, so doubling up will only need 2 per slot.

The reason the master has two is probably that two extension cables have
already been taken off it.

Christian.

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 09:20:44 UTC, "Christian McArdle"
wrote:

I guess if I were to go ahead and touch the 1-piece master socket anyway,
I'd simply have to detach the wires and reinsert them after the job is
done?

If you want. I wouldn't even bother disconnecting.

Don't worry about it. Just make the connections.

I was thinking about the cutting-through-the-cable bit, and shorting the
2 and 5 wires...

--
The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://laminateflooring.oncloud8.com

On 26 Sep 2005 11:35:27 GMT, "Bob Eager" scrawled:

I was thinking about the cutting-through-the-cable bit, and shorting the
2 and 5 wires...

Doesn't do any (much) harm usually. Best to disconnect where possible
but I don't supopose most people bother.
--
Stuart @ SJW Electrical

Please Reply to group

If you want. I wouldn't even bother disconnecting.

I was thinking about the cutting-through-the-cable bit, and shorting the
2 and 5 wires...

The procedure doesn't call for the shorting of the 2 and 5 wires. It doesn't
even call for them to be cut. If using screw terminals, they need careful
stripping. If using IDC, no need even for that. Even if accidentally cut,
there will be no problem with the line.

Christian.

I'm an ex BT engineer, the NTE5A socket that has been used to terminate
the incoming line was introduced to provide an interface between the BT
wring and the customers own wiring when the powers that be decided
people could buy their own extension kits rather than renting extensions
from BT. Technically, if you don't have one of these master sockets
fitted to the entry point of your service (cable or BT) then you are
breaking the "law" and BT could charge you if its found that you altered
the wiring and the supplier could charge you to put the system right and
prosecute for tampering with "their" wiring. In reality this (as far as
I'm awear) has never happened, unless some fraudulent offence was linked
to the tampering.

Whilst I worked for BT in '88 to 93, we did several up-lifts if old
cabling including installing new NTE5A sockets, so it might be worth
contacting them to see if they would update the installation in your
house. You could ask the engineer how much it would be to install the
extension in his own time... just don't mention I told you :-)

Malcolm

You only need three wires out of the six (or possibly 8) that are in the
cable. The line is normally carried on the blue pair connected to pins
2 and 5, with the bell cct being the orange on pin 3 (if memory serves
me correctly)

Hope this

Kroma wrote:
"Bob Eager" wrote in message
...

BEWARE - you must disconnect the whole circuit from the phone line
first. This is normally done by removing the lower front half of the
master socket. If it has a one piece front, you're out of your depth
because you aren't supposed to touch it. Best plan then is to get it
converted by BT and then go ahead with the extension.


Ah - my master socket is a one-piece. Strange, as the house I've just moved
into was built circa 1990.

Will BT convert me to a 2-piece master socket for free?

I guess if I were to go ahead and touch the 1-piece master socket anyway,
I'd simply have to detach the wires and reinsert them after the job is done?
Actually, the wires in the master socket aren't fitted very well anyway as
when I had a quick look inside (before realising that it WAS a master
socket) one of the wires in position 2 fell out unbeknown to me and stopped
everything from working. It was simple to diagnose and rectify though. The
socket will be unscrewed again next week as I'm wallpapering and painting.

Daz

Thanks for all this help guys. I'm quite confident with it now. I
have bought a new socket (could only get the screw type though) and
know exactly what to do with the wires.

My only concern is getting a shock or shorting everything out! I plan
to cute the white sheath away very carefully and then to deal with each
wire individually. Can I get a shock in this way?

Naturally, I'd remove the lower half of the master socket if I had the
modern variety but alas I have the older style (in a really horrid
brass finish)!

I may ask BT about installing a new master socket but if it costs it
won't be worth my while (except for the fact that I know my new socket
installation will be shock/short proof and that I'll have a nice new
white socket in the lounge)!

If anybody has any further observations they would be welcome.

Thanks again,

Daz

"Kroma" wrote in message
ups.com...

My only concern is getting a shock or shorting everything out! I plan
to cute the white sheath away very carefully and then to deal with each
wire individually. Can I get a shock in this way?


The standing voltage on the line is 48v so no, you won't get a shock off it.
However, if someone happens to ring you while you're hold of the wires,
you'll get a belt then. Can't remember if ringing voltage is 88 or 110 but
either way you'll know about it )

Mogweed.

You won't get shocked from a domestic phone line. At most you'll get a
little tingle if you were holding both legs of the line and someone rang
you at the same time. Normal voltage is just 50v DC, which rises to 70
when ringing.

Malcolm

Kroma wrote:

My only concern is getting a shock or shorting everything out! I plan
to cute the white sheath away very carefully and then to deal with each
wire individually. Can I get a shock in this way?

On 26 Sep 2005 10:47:49 -0700,it is alleged that "Kroma"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

[snip]

If anybody has any further observations they would be welcome.

Thanks again,

Daz

As others have noted, the standard voltage is 50V DC, with usually
around 75V AC ringing. The simple way to avoid the danger of a shock,
is to leave a phone in the master socket off hook for the duration of
your work. This will drop the line voltage to normally under 10v, and
obviously prevent it ringing.

--
We are just an advanced breed of monkeys on a minor planet of a very
average star. But we can understand the Universe. That makes us something
very special.
- Stephen Hawking

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 20:13:38 +0100, Mogweed wrote:

The standing voltage on the line is 48v so no, you won't get a shock
off it.

You might feel it depending on how sensitive an individual is and the
local conditions. I remember getting *very* annoyed at the belts I
kept getting off a BT block putting the nominally dead controls and 4
wires on for an OB somewhere. Mind you it was peeing down, I was
soaked from head to foot and the rain was dripping off my hands... It
wasn't until I got to the last on the list that I realised what was
happening, the last one was the DEL with 48v DC on it. Doh!

However, if someone happens to ring you while you're hold of the
wires, you'll get a belt then. Can't remember if ringing voltage is
88 or 110 but either way you'll know about it )

It'll certainly make you jump but like the 48v DC is from a fairly
high impedance source so isn't likely to be particulary harmful to a
normal healthy adult. What ever, don't strip the wires with your
teeth. B-)

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

Malcolm wrote:

You won't get shocked from a domestic phone line.

Not critically you won't - unless you are up a ladder and not strapped
on, but contact a core carrying ringing current and it hurts.

--

Owain wrote:

Caveat: the numbers on the screw extension socket may be the reverse of
the master socket, if the master socket uses BT numbering.

Since when have they ever been different? The only screw up in the
original BT spec was that cores 1-6 on the cable were incorrectly
numbered in the reverse direction to the terminals in the line jack.


--

Matt wrote:

Not critically you won't - unless you are up a ladder and not strapped
on, but contact a core carrying ringing current and it hurts.


Only if you're a wimp :-)

Worked for BT for five years installing lines, both underground feeds
and from poles. Had several "tingles" whilst installing - never hurt :-)

The only time I did think "Bu**er that stung" was whilst fitting a party
line filter up a pole in the pouring rain... wet fingers and electricity
don't mix !! -

Matt wrote:

Owain wrote:

Caveat: the numbers on the screw extension socket may be the reverse of
the master socket, if the master socket uses BT numbering.

Since when have they ever been different? The only screw up in the
original BT spec was that cores 1-6 on the cable were incorrectly
numbered in the reverse direction to the terminals in the line jack.

Agreed - the terminal numbering should never be different, unless anyone
is selling non-compliant LJUs.

As you say, confusion arises because the pin numbering of the connectors
runs the opposite way round to the numbering of the wiring terminals
(LJU terminal 1 goes to connector pin 6, and so on). This is widely
believed to be the result of a historical cock-up.

Pin 1 of the connector is the one furthest from the latch release lever,
but unless you are making up your own phone, modem or extension leads
you can forget about the connector pin numbers and just follow the
terminal numbers, which are *always* wired 2-2, 3-3, 5-5.

http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wi...telephone.html
has more information and clear diagrams.

--
Andy

OK, it gets worse!

I brought my really old BT freeway cordless phone over from my parents'
house today as I couldn't hear the new BT Paragon phone very well in its
home in the main bedroom when I was situated in the lounge.

I plugged it in in the study (which currently has a 15m plug-in extension
kit running from the main bedroom) and took the handset downstairs.

Then I (just about) heard the Paragon ringing in the main bedroom but the
cordless (plugged in in the study) remained silent.

I investigated further by moving the Paragon to the study (where the
cordless remained silent) and phoning the house with my mobile. The Paragon
rang. Odd!

I took the cordless to the main bedroom and plugged it straight into the
wall. It still wouldn't ring.

I took the cordless base unit downstairs to the master socket... it rang.

I took it to the dining room... it rang.

So now I'm left wondering what to do.

To summarise, I have the following...

A 'brass' master socket in the lounge - seems to work fine.

A brass secondary socket in the dining room - seems to work fine.

An 'unconnected' socket in the hallway (the one I was planning to wire in).

A brass secondary socket in the main bedroom. Works ok with new BT Paragon
phone but not with old BT Freeway Cordless (which calls out etc but doesn't
want to ring).

A plug in extension in the study which behaves the same way as the socket it
is plugged into (in the main bedroom).

There is also an alarm system which is capable of connecting to the
phoneline. I'm not sure where this fits in to the equation - maybe it's
what's causing the problem 'between floors'?

Should I get someone in to check the system over? I had a quick look behind
the faceplate of the main bedroom socket - it was a complete mess with wires
everywhere (and the brass faceplate was not earthed as far as I could see).
It was also installed upside-down!

Is this something which I should get BT to come and sort out. If not, what
sort of person do I look for?

Many thanks in advance... I hope it all makes sense. This
'post-moving-house-DIY' is a really fast learning curve! )

Daz

PS I also intend to add ADSL to the line as soon as my computer is in the
house. I'm guessing that currently an upstairs location for the broadband
router may be a no-no if some phones won't even ring!?

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005 23:28:49 +0100, "Kroma"
scrawled:

To summarise, I have the following...

A 'brass' master socket in the lounge - seems to work fine.

A brass secondary socket in the dining room - seems to work fine.

An 'unconnected' socket in the hallway (the one I was planning to wire in).

A brass secondary socket in the main bedroom. Works ok with new BT Paragon
phone but not with old BT Freeway Cordless (which calls out etc but doesn't
want to ring).

Er, think I'm with it.

A plug in extension in the study which behaves the same way as the socket it
is plugged into (in the main bedroom).

There is also an alarm system which is capable of connecting to the
phoneline. I'm not sure where this fits in to the equation - maybe it's
what's causing the problem 'between floors'?

Wouldn't have thought so, unless it's been wired into the phone line
in a random fashion.

Should I get someone in to check the system over? I had a quick look behind
the faceplate of the main bedroom socket - it was a complete mess with wires
everywhere (and the brass faceplate was not earthed as far as I could see).
It was also installed upside-down!

Is this something which I should get BT to come and sort out. If not, what
sort of person do I look for?

Definitely not BT (openreach), it'll probably end up worse. Thumb
through the local rags as there are sometimes ex-BT engineers offering
there services at a reasonable price. I also come at a reasonable
rate.

Many thanks in advance... I hope it all makes sense. This
'post-moving-house-DIY' is a really fast learning curve! )

I would take a look at terminal 3 in the bedroom socket, it sounds
like it's not correctly terminated.

PS I also intend to add ADSL to the line as soon as my computer is in the
house. I'm guessing that currently an upstairs location for the broadband
router may be a no-no if some phones won't even ring!?

Not neccesarily, but I would reterminate all the sockets if it were me
to prevent any future ADSL problems, but then I know what I'm doing
and there is a chance that you could mnake things worse, no offence
intended!
--
Stuart @ SJW Electrical

Please Reply to group

In article , Owain
wrote:

Kroma wrote:
A brass secondary socket in the main bedroom. Works ok with new BT Paragon
phone but not with old BT Freeway Cordless (which calls out etc but doesn't
want to ring).
A plug in extension in the study which behaves the same way as the socket it
is plugged into (in the main bedroom).

Sounds like the main bedroom socket is only wired with pins 2 and 5.
The new Paragon apparently doesn't need pin 3 wired to ring, but the
old Freeway does.

Find the wire connected to pin 3 at the other sockets and connect it.

Also check that pins 2 and 5 (the blue pair) aren't reversed. Even if
the colours are right don't assume it's right until you've checked pins
2, 3 and 5 on all the rest of the sockets and made sure the same colour
goes to the same pin on each.

--
Mike Clarke

Ok chaps and chapesses...

I think I've decided my course of action on this one.

1) Take photos of my sockets' current internal wiring and provide a link
here to see if there is any specific info which will help me (it's the
spurious hanging wires that I'm worried about)
2) Get BT in to install an official master socket so that any work I do is
not 'illegal'
3) Attampt to add my 'midway phone socket' and sorr out the 'pin 3' problem
upstairs myself.
4) If all else fails - get in someone else (not necessarily BT) to sort out
the problems.

Do you think this is a sensible course of action to take?

Thanks again,

Daz

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 22:55:22 +0100,it is alleged that "Kroma"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

Ok chaps and chapesses...

I think I've decided my course of action on this one.

1) Take photos of my sockets' current internal wiring and provide a link
here to see if there is any specific info which will help me (it's the
spurious hanging wires that I'm worried about)
2) Get BT in to install an official master socket so that any work I do is
not 'illegal'
3) Attampt to add my 'midway phone socket' and sorr out the 'pin 3' problem
upstairs myself.
4) If all else fails - get in someone else (not necessarily BT) to sort out
the problems.

Do you think this is a sensible course of action to take?

Thanks again,

Daz


That's a nice 'ideal' legal course of action, yes. (could be expensive
calling BT in though)


--
There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.
- Ken Olson, President of DEC, 1977

Oh - I thought the price was 30GBP. Is there a call-out charge on top?

Daz

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 23:09:28 +0100,it is alleged that "Kroma"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

Oh - I thought the price was 30GBP. Is there a call-out charge on top?

Daz

That was my thinking too, however a recent discussion on another group
(I forget whether it was here, or UK.Telecom) led me to believe there
*may* be a callout charge on top of that. An enquiry in uk.telecom
should produce a result on this score.

--
There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.
- Ken Olson, President of DEC, 1977

3) Attampt to add my 'midway phone socket' and sorr out the 'pin 3'
problem
upstairs myself.

Personally I wouldn't bother. Just use modern phones that don't need pin 3.
Pin 3 is a horrible hack that reduces sound quality by unbalancing the pairs
and is only required for dinosaur phones.

Christian.

"Kroma" wrote in message
...
To summarise, I have the following... A 'brass' master socket in the
lounge - seems to work fine.
A brass secondary socket in the dining room - seems to work fine.
An 'unconnected' socket in the hallway (the one I was planning to wire
in).
A brass secondary socket in the main bedroom. Works ok with new BT
Paragon
phone but not with old BT Freeway Cordless (which calls out etc but
doesn't
want to ring).
A plug in extension in the study which behaves the same way as the socket
it
is plugged into (in the main bedroom).
There is also an alarm system which is capable of connecting to the
phoneline. I'm not sure where this fits in to the equation - maybe it's
what's causing the problem 'between floors'?
Should I get someone in to check the system over? I had a quick look
behind
the faceplate of the main bedroom socket - it was a complete mess with
wires
everywhere (and the brass faceplate was not earthed as far as I could
see).
It was also installed upside-down!
Is this something which I should get BT to come and sort out. If not,
what
sort of person do I look for?

Phew - a month later (if anybody can remember what was said before)...

I plucked up courage to sort out the phone sockets this week.

I changed the faceplates downstairs (very easy, used the special tool in the
lounge and had to strip away to bare wire for the dining room extension as
it had screw terminals).

Then I installed my 'midway phone socket' - once again it was the screw
terminal variety - I couldn't get proper ones anywhere! It worked a treat -
no shocks (even when my gf phoned halfway through... I wish I HAD put a
phone on the master socket off hook at that point)!

I also replaced the nasty brass socket upstairs but found some oddities
here...

The colouring was reversed when compared with the sockets downstairs.. white
with blue rings became blue with white rings etc.

There were also 2 extra wires, an orange and a white in positions 2 and 5.
There was also a bundle of other wires which didn't go anywhere (so I taped
the ends up).

Everything works now (except my old cordless still won't ring when connected
upstairs although my new phone will). Also, if I turn off the power to the
upstairs electric sockets - the upstairs extension goes dead.

I assume the colour change has something to do with the way it's connected
to the alarm?

Anyway, thanks for helping everybody. I was very naive at the start of this
thread having just read back!

Daz

In message , Kroma
writes
Also, if I turn off the power to the
upstairs electric sockets - the upstairs extension goes dead.

WHAT????????????????????????

Sorry but I can't think of anything else to say.

Is there a cordless DECT or similar phone plugged in upstairs? Therefore
you are cutting the power to its base unit. Surely you don't mean that a
plugged in normal phone stops working when you turn the power off do
you?

--
Bill

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 23:44:37 GMT,it is alleged that Bill
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:

In message , Kroma
writes
Also, if I turn off the power to the
upstairs electric sockets - the upstairs extension goes dead.

WHAT????????????????????????

Sorry but I can't think of anything else to say.

Is there a cordless DECT or similar phone plugged in upstairs? Therefore
you are cutting the power to its base unit. Surely you don't mean that a
plugged in normal phone stops working when you turn the power off do
you?

You are about to witness Kroma enter... the twilight zone.

Seriously... if this is a normal phone, maybe one of those mains
powered phoneline extenders is lurking somewhere. If not, the OP needs
to call an exorcist.

--
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein

"Bill" wrote in message
...

WHAT????????????????????????

Sorry but I can't think of anything else to say.

Is there a cordless DECT or similar phone plugged in upstairs? Therefore
you are cutting the power to its base unit. Surely you don't mean that a
plugged in normal phone stops working when you turn the power off do you?

Yes I do - I may be daft but not THAT daft. I was shocked too!! The only
explanation I could think of was that it goes through the alarm somehow
(it's only the upstairs extension which goes off - all the sockets
downstairs continue to work as normal).

Daz

On Sun, 30 Oct 2005 01:03:14 +0100,it is alleged that "Kroma"
spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:


"Bill" wrote in message
...

WHAT????????????????????????

Sorry but I can't think of anything else to say.

Is there a cordless DECT or similar phone plugged in upstairs? Therefore
you are cutting the power to its base unit. Surely you don't mean that a
plugged in normal phone stops working when you turn the power off do you?

Yes I do - I may be daft but not THAT daft. I was shocked too!! The only
explanation I could think of was that it goes through the alarm somehow
(it's only the upstairs extension which goes off - all the sockets
downstairs continue to work as normal).

Daz


BZZT... probable right answer

Hadn't thought about that, but yes, the alarm is likely grabbing the
line to inform the monitoring centre the power's out...

Sometimes life throws odd things.

--
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein

"Chip" wrote in message
n.net...


BZZT... probable right answer

Hadn't thought about that, but yes, the alarm is likely grabbing the
line to inform the monitoring centre the power's out...

I might be contradicting myself here but that doesn't explain why the
downstairs phone sockets continue to function.

Bizarre!

Daz

In message , Kroma
writes

Is there a cordless DECT or similar phone plugged in upstairs? Therefore
you are cutting the power to its base unit. Surely you don't mean that a
plugged in normal phone stops working when you turn the power off do you?

Yes I do - I may be daft but not THAT daft. I was shocked too!! The only
explanation I could think of was that it goes through the alarm somehow
(it's only the upstairs extension which goes off - all the sockets
downstairs continue to work as normal).

Daz



Daz,
I feel it might be time to very carefully trace the cabling and
see just where it goes and what else it connects to. The phone wiring
should not be connected to anything else and certainly not anything
connected to a ring main! As was suggested maybe a phone line extender,
although I thought those only regenerated ringing volts and would have
left 2 and 5 alone. Maybe not though.
Hopefully there is a simple explanation to it all and there is something
legitimate missing from your description but I'm not sure what at the
moment. Maybe the previous suggestion of "call an exorcist" would be
worth while?

Best of luck and nice knowing you.
--
Bill

In message t, Chip
writes
Yes I do - I may be daft but not THAT daft. I was shocked too!! The only
explanation I could think of was that it goes through the alarm somehow
(it's only the upstairs extension which goes off - all the sockets
downstairs continue to work as normal).

Daz


BZZT... probable right answer

Hadn't thought about that, but yes, the alarm is likely grabbing the
line to inform the monitoring centre the power's out...

Could be, but he says that the sockets down stairs continue to work
normally. If it had seized the line then you would not expect this.
Maybe try having a phone plugged in upstairs while disconnecting the
power to that ring and listen to what happens, does something try to
dial out?

Does the alarm panel contain a dialler?
If it does is it plugged into a proper phone socket or has some one hard
wired it into the phone circuit some where?




Sometimes life throws odd things.


--
Bill