Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and can't
see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot
and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and
foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to back
and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so the
replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and hangers. I
plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers in my area
tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded boards (I plan
to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of the
other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Am I completely barking ?

thanking you in anticipation ....

In article ,
"brugnospamsia" says...
Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and can't
see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot
and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and
foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to back
and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so the
replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and hangers. I
plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers in my area
tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded boards (I plan
to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of the
other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Am I completely barking ?

Not if you're doing the work yourself and you're going to be living
there for a while - you want it good to use, you're not after quick
profit from resale. I'd be inclined to investigate the possibility
of replacing the joists without using hangers though - is it out of
the question to cut through one of the supporting walls so that the
joists could be slid into place?

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
. uk...
Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and
can't see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot
and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and
foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to
back and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so
the replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and
hangers. I plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers
in my area tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded
boards (I plan to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of
the other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Am I completely barking ?

No.

You're doing what you want for your circumstances.Nothing else is important.

Mary

thanking you in anticipation ....

In article ,
"brugnospamsia" writes:
I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to back
and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so the
replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and hangers. I
plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers in my area
tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded boards (I plan
to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

My brother had a similar situation with a bouncy floor.
When he was getting a full-sized grand piano (he's a
musician), we all had concerns about the floor strength.
He had the floorboards taken up, and new joists added in
between the existing ones. Then the original floor was relayed.
In his case, the downstairs ceilings had all been replaced
a few years before, and further replacement was avoided,
although one or two minor repairs were required where the
odd plasterboard nail had shot out when the floor was being
nailed down.

--
Andrew Gabriel

In message ,
brugnospamsia writes
Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and can't
see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot
and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and
foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to back
and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so the
replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and hangers. I
plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers in my area
tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded boards (I plan
to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

Why not have a steel bar fitted below the ceiling, and bedded into the
walls. This would certainly take any bounce out, and removes the need to
replace all the joists and flooring.

You would probably need to get a structural engineer to specify the
steel bar, and its' bedding, and you may need building regs approval.


Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of the
other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Am I completely barking ?


No

--
Richard Faulkner

"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...
In message ,
brugnospamsia writes
Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and
can't
see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot
and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and
foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to
back
and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so the
replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and hangers. I
plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers in my area
tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded boards (I
plan
to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

Why not have a steel bar fitted below the ceiling, and bedded into the
walls. This would certainly take any bounce out, and removes the need to
replace all the joists and flooring.

You would probably need to get a structural engineer to specify the steel
bar, and its' bedding, and you may need building regs approval.


You mean at 90 degrees ?

thanks for the suggestion, but I'd sooner not lower the ceiling (and it
might well look suspicious to a future purchaser if the floor looks "shored
up" !) ... the other problem is that the party walls are only one brick so
it would cause problems - even if I got past the party wall act ....
I reckon there wouldn't be much difference in the cost either - and the
ceiling needs replacing anyway ...

It feels a bit radical but my brother tells me he regrets not replacing his
upstairs floors - I think it may have been because he was so relieved they
hadn't been touched by the dry rot that was eating the whole house when he
bought it .....

"Rob Morley" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
"brugnospamsia" says...
Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and
can't
see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot
and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and
foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to
back
and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so the
replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and hangers. I
plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers in my
area
tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded boards (I
plan
to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of
the
other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Am I completely barking ?

Not if you're doing the work yourself and you're going to be living
there for a while - you want it good to use, you're not after quick
profit from resale. I'd be inclined to investigate the possibility
of replacing the joists without using hangers though - is it out of
the question to cut through one of the supporting walls so that the
joists could be slid into place?

I'm afraid the brickwork is so dodgy I wouldn't want to try - add to that
the re-rendering that would be needed to hide the work ....

Are you hinting it may be difficult to get the floor sufficiently well
attached to the walls ?

I suspect we will use wall plates and resin anchors ...

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
et...

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
. uk...
Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and
can't see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

SNIP

Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of
the other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Am I completely barking ?

No.

You're doing what you want for your circumstances.Nothing else is
important.

Mary

thanks for the reassurance :-)

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
. uk...
Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and
can't see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot
and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and
foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to
back and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so
the replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and
hangers. I plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers
in my area tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded
boards (I plan to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of
the other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Am I completely barking ?

thanking you in anticipation ....



As some of you will know if you've seen some of my other threads in this
group, I'm renovating my late mother's 134-year old mid-terraced house and I
heard a very interesting idea the other day although I don't intend to do
this myself.

The houses around here are two-storey with ceilings 11ft plus high and I now
know of three seperate houses (one of which suffered from the same
non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors as yours) where they have
completely taken out the downstairs ceilings/upstairs floors (so that you
can stand at ground level and look directly up to the upstairs ceilings [or
roof, in one case]) and put in new ceilings/floors at lower heights, thereby
creating a three-storey house from a two-storey one.

Apparently the cost in all three cases has been around the £20 or £21k mark
from start to finish and none of the householders did it with a view to
selling it afterwards, just a way of improving their homes and getting more
space to live in. The only reason I know is that the lads who are doing my
double glazing for me worked on all three of those projects as well.

So, are you barking? Of course not. Everybody has their own ideas of what
they want.

Mogweed.

On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:18:10 GMT, "brugnospamsia"
wrote:

Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and can't
see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot
and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and
foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to back
and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so the
replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and hangers. I
plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers in my area
tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded boards (I plan
to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

What's on the upstairs floors at the moment? I'd retain the original
floorboards if possible, a buyer might want to have an original wood
floor upstairs.

Also don't the non level bouncy floors would give the house a bit of
character?

If you're replacing the downstairs ceiling you could 'sister' the
existing joists with some extra timber to stiffen them up a bit,
doubling the width will double the stiffness.

Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of the
other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Why not ask your neighbours? If they've done OK for 140 years they
can't be too bad.

cheers,
Pete.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...



If you're replacing the downstairs ceiling you could 'sister' the
existing joists with some extra timber to stiffen them up a bit,
doubling the width will double the stiffness.

Is 'sister' a recognised term for that process? I've never heard of it but
it's good and I don't know of another.

It certainly works, we did it in our loft.

Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of
the
other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Why not ask your neighbours? If they've done OK for 140 years they
can't be too bad.

:-)

Mary

cheers,
Pete.

In article ,
brugnospamsia wrote:
It feels a bit radical but my brother tells me he regrets not replacing
his upstairs floors - I think it may have been because he was so
relieved they hadn't been touched by the dry rot that was eating the
whole house when he bought it .....

One friend's bouncy and creaky floors were caused by woodworm...

So I'd check it is actually a design 'fault'.

--
*If you don't like the news, go out and make some.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jul 2005 17:18:10 GMT, "brugnospamsia"
wrote:

Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and
can't
see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot
and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and
foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to
back
and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so the
replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and hangers. I
plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers in my area
tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded boards (I
plan
to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).


What's on the upstairs floors at the moment? I'd retain the original
floorboards if possible, a buyer might want to have an original wood
floor upstairs.

I'm likely to damage quite a few lifting them whatever I do to stiffen the
floor - unless I worked from below I suppose (the Lath and plaster ceiling
will come down by itself if I don't remove it myself)

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/ruinbig.jpg

This is the style of house I have. I bet there isn't a single house in my
street with stripped boards upstairs - half a dozen have been for sale
recently and the online photos show carpet in every case ... though with the
prices at the insane level they are now (I wouldn't be able to buy it now if
I was starting out !), perhaps I have to look to a more affluent kind of
buyer ....


Also don't the non level bouncy floors would give the house a bit of
character?

LOL


If you're replacing the downstairs ceiling you could 'sister' the
existing joists with some extra timber to stiffen them up a bit,
doubling the width will double the stiffness.

I've considered this but the beam ends have been half-way into solid brick
walls for 140 years ... It's actually going to be less bother to go the
whole hog ....


Having lived in the street so long, my observations make me doubt any of
the
other houses have had so much trouble expended on them ...

Why not ask your neighbours? If they've done OK for 140 years they
can't be too bad.

cheers,
Pete.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
brugnospamsia wrote:
It feels a bit radical but my brother tells me he regrets not replacing
his upstairs floors - I think it may have been because he was so
relieved they hadn't been touched by the dry rot that was eating the
whole house when he bought it .....

One friend's bouncy and creaky floors were caused by woodworm...

So I'd check it is actually a design 'fault'.

Just as well to "Cut it out, man, cut it out" then ! ;-)

[/Lancelot Spratt]


--
*If you don't like the news, go out and make some.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
. uk...



http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/ruinbig.jpg

Where'd you get that picture of our daughter's first house? Before they put
in the 1st floor veranda of course ...

She had the sitting room on the first floor.

Mary

In message ,
brugnospamsia writes

"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...
In message ,
brugnospamsia writes
Dear group,

I have lived in my "first time buyer" terraced house for 21 years and
can't
see myself "upgrading" in the forseeable future.

Having had the roof rebuilt, the 140 year old upstairs ceilings were shot
and I found it made sense to completely replace them with new timbers and
foil-backed plasterboard.

I am now faced with two non-level, bouncy and bendy upstairs floors and
given that the downstairs ceilings also need replacing, I am wondering if
this is the best solution here too. The under-spec. joists run front to
back
and are (loosely) cemented in to the outside and stairwell walls so the
replacement joists would have to be attached to wallplates and hangers. I
plan to use 22mm t&g chipboard in anticipation that most buyers in my area
tend to want carpet or laminate upstairs rather than sanded boards (I
plan
to have carpet upstairs and sanded boards downstairs).

Why not have a steel bar fitted below the ceiling, and bedded into the
walls. This would certainly take any bounce out, and removes the need to
replace all the joists and flooring.

You would probably need to get a structural engineer to specify the steel
bar, and its' bedding, and you may need building regs approval.


You mean at 90 degrees ?


Yes.

thanks for the suggestion, but I'd sooner not lower the ceiling (and it
might well look suspicious to a future purchaser if the floor looks "shored
up" !) ... the other problem is that the party walls are only one brick so
it would cause problems - even if I got past the party wall act ....

I've done this with 2 floors/ceilings in a big Victorian semi, and a
future purchaser wouldnt know it had been done. My party walls are only
1 brick thick aswell, but we just did it carefully and the neighbours
were fine about it.

Anyway - only a suggestion from experience g

I reckon there wouldn't be much difference in the cost either - and the
ceiling needs replacing anyway ...


It feels a bit radical but my brother tells me he regrets not replacing his
upstairs floors - I think it may have been because he was so relieved they
hadn't been touched by the dry rot that was eating the whole house when he
bought it .....







--
Richard Faulkner

"Mary Fisher" wrote in message
. net...

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
. uk...



http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/ruinbig.jpg

Where'd you get that picture of our daughter's first house?

There are hundreds of 'em round here - that photo was apparently taken in
Bristol at the turn of the century showing a history of decay I may at last
be in the process of reversing ;-)

Before they put
in the 1st floor veranda of course ...

It's funny you should say that - I have a long standing fantasy about a two
storey atrium ...


She had the sitting room on the first floor.

"brugnospamsia" wrote in message
k...


http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/ruinbig.jpg

Where'd you get that picture of our daughter's first house?

There are hundreds of 'em round here - that photo was apparently taken in
Bristol at the turn of the century showing a history of decay I may at
last be in the process of reversing ;-)

Daughter's was in York - streets and streets of them next to the railway
line. Built for railways workers.

Before they put
in the 1st floor veranda of course ...

It's funny you should say that - I have a long standing fantasy about a
two storey atrium ...

er - looks round - we're not allowed to talk about our fantasies here!

Mary

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:55:35 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Pete C" wrote in message
.. .



If you're replacing the downstairs ceiling you could 'sister' the
existing joists with some extra timber to stiffen them up a bit,
doubling the width will double the stiffness.

Is 'sister' a recognised term for that process? I've never heard of it but
it's good and I don't know of another.

Hi,

Not sure for houses but it's a well known method of repairing broken
ribs in wooden boats.

cheers,
Pete.

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:38:53 GMT, "brugnospamsia"
wrote:

What's on the upstairs floors at the moment? I'd retain the original
floorboards if possible, a buyer might want to have an original wood
floor upstairs.

I'm likely to damage quite a few lifting them whatever I do to stiffen the
floor - unless I worked from below I suppose (the Lath and plaster ceiling
will come down by itself if I don't remove it myself)

Yes, just work from below.

http://uk.geocities.com/gentlegreengiant/ruinbig.jpg

This is the style of house I have. I bet there isn't a single house in my
street with stripped boards upstairs - half a dozen have been for sale
recently and the online photos show carpet in every case ... though with the
prices at the insane level they are now (I wouldn't be able to buy it now if
I was starting out !), perhaps I have to look to a more affluent kind of
buyer ....

Carpet is cheeep but in some rooms I'd prefer stripped floorboards
with a bordered sisal rug, I think that's more classy.

If you're replacing the downstairs ceiling you could 'sister' the
existing joists with some extra timber to stiffen them up a bit,
doubling the width will double the stiffness.

I've considered this but the beam ends have been half-way into solid brick
walls for 140 years ... It's actually going to be less bother to go the
whole hog ....

No need to take the ends into the wall, it's just to stiffen the
existing joists rather than reduce the load on them. Could be worth
getting the blessing of an structural engineer.

Try asking on the forums at 'Period Property' to get some feedback and
more ideas.

cheers,
Pete.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 12:55:35 +0100, "Mary Fisher"
wrote:


"Pete C" wrote in message
. ..



If you're replacing the downstairs ceiling you could 'sister' the
existing joists with some extra timber to stiffen them up a bit,
doubling the width will double the stiffness.

Is 'sister' a recognised term for that process? I've never heard of it but
it's good and I don't know of another.

Hi,

Not sure for houses but it's a well known method of repairing broken
ribs in wooden boats.

Yes - it's the term 'sister' which intrigued me.

Mary

cheers,
Pete.

"Pete C" wrote in message
...

Carpet is cheeep but in some rooms I'd prefer stripped floorboards
with a bordered sisal rug, I think that's more classy.

I've often wondered what 'classy'means. My mother used to use the word.

Mary

Mary Fisher wrote:

Yes - it's the term 'sister' which intrigued me.

I've heard it from a number of joiners, in the UK and the US.

Sheila

"S Viemeister" wrote in message
...
Mary Fisher wrote:

Yes - it's the term 'sister' which intrigued me.

I've heard it from a number of joiners, in the UK and the US.

Right, thanks Sheila. That's all I wanted to know :-) I like learning new
words. Or, as in this case, old words in new (tome) applications.

Mary

Sheila