Could anyone suggest the names of any text? books / media, an aspiring (and
perspiring) wannabee trainee 'Lectrician might obtain to learn such secrets
as; Cable calculations? Or any of the other "black" arts the NICEC or IEE,
deem crucial in awarding the coveted "competency accreditation" to? ;0)

TIA.

In message ,
"RmS" wrote:

Could anyone suggest the names of any text? books / media, an aspiring (and
perspiring) wannabee trainee 'Lectrician might obtain to learn such secrets
as; Cable calculations? Or any of the other "black" arts the NICEC or IEE,
deem crucial in awarding the coveted "competency accreditation" to? ;0)


Starting a new thread is good, but maybe you could have given it a new
title too :-)

Books depend on your current level of understanding.

For "how it is normally done", one of the Collins books is pretty good
(DIY wiring and lighting), but contains next to no technical background.

Reading the last five years of electrical questions on uk.d-i-y would be
a good start too, and there's a bit of info in the FAQ :-)

Far too much technical background is available from John Whitfield's
"The Electrician's Guide to the 16th Edition of the IEE Wiring
Regulations", and some of his advice conflicts with that in the IEE's
official guide, the "On-site Guide". Nevertheless, Whitfield is still
many electricians' "bible".

The OSG itself is a brilliant source of practical advice for most
(single-phase) work, though biased towards domestic, fully referenced
to BS7671 and very easy to read.

There's also a lot of information in BS7671 itself, which you're
probably going to need anyway, but it can be a little difficult to
extract. A really good way to get the hang of BS7671 and the OSG is to
take a C&G 2381 course. When I did mine it was a few months of
one-evening-a-week in college, followed by an exam.

The exam questions are copyright City & Guilds, so example questions are
a little hard to come by. A clever Google on this group though might
throw up something interesting.

I also have two books by Brian Scaddan; "IEE Wiring Regulations
Explained and Illustrated" and... errr... something to do with testing.
These are much easier to read and understand than Whitfield's book.

As for criteria for membership of (e.g.) NICEIC, try the respective
websites:

http://www.niceic.org.uk/
http://www.niceic.org.uk/nonapproved/requirements.html


http://www.eca.co.uk/
http://www.partp.co.uk/contractor/contractor_costs.asp

etc.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... You may be recognized soon. Perhaps you should hide?

Martin Angove wrote:


The exam questions are copyright City & Guilds, so example questions are
a little hard to come by. A clever Google on this group though might
throw up something interesting.

ISTR I culled a set of example questions from somewhere onece... not
sure how representertive they are but they seem like the sort fo thing I
would expect to find...

I can dig em out and post them if you want...


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

Hi, and thanks for the comprehensive information.
I would indeed be most eager to get hold of some "Test" questions -
Thanks. - And i will certainly try to get the OSG.

Thanks again.

John - just remove the obvious from the reply address.

"RmS" wrote in message
k...
Could anyone suggest the names of any text? books / media, an aspiring
(and perspiring) wannabee trainee 'Lectrician might obtain to learn such
secrets as; Cable calculations? Or any of the other "black" arts the NICEC
or IEE, deem crucial in awarding the coveted "competency accreditation"
to? ;0)

TIA.

RmS wrote:

I would indeed be most eager to get hold of some "Test" questions -

(these may have suffered a bit from being cut and pasted... note read
Ohms where you see "W". Answers in brackets at the end)

1. A single-phase circuit is to be wired in 70°C PVC-insulated and
sheathed multicore cable to BS6004 with copper conductors. The cables
are to be installed single in conduit without insulation. The nominal
design current of the circuit is 30A, ambient temperature is 50°C. If a
BS88 gG fuse of rating 32A has been selected, determine the minimum
cross sectional area of these cables that can be used. [10mm2]

2. A single-phase circuit has a nominal design current of 17A and a
BS3036 semi-enclosed rewireable fuse of 20A rating has been selected.
Ambient temperature is 45°C and the cable is installed with 4 similar
cables all clipped direct. BS6004 70°C PVC-insulated and sheathed
multicore cables are employed. Determine the minimum cross sectional
area of the cable to be used. [10mm2]

3. Six similar single-phase circuits, each designed for 8A and protected
by a 10A miniature circuit breaker are wired in BS6004 70 °C
PVC-insulated and sheathed copper multicore cable. The cables operate at
an ambient temperature of 45°C and are totally enclosed in thermal
insulation with a derating factor of 0.5. Determine an appropriate cross
sectional area for the conductor. [6mm2]

4. A single-phase a.c. circuit is wired in single core 70°C
PVC-insulated non-sheathed cable to BS6004 having copper conductors of
10mm2 cross sectional area in conduit (CR1). If the nominal design
current is 40A and cable length 33m what voltage drop is experienced
down the cable? [5.8V]


5. A 240V single-phase a.c. circuit is wired in multicore 70°C
PVC-insulated and sheathed cable to BS6004 with copper conductors. The
circuit length is 20m with a design current of 25A. The cross sectional
area of the cable is 6mm2. The circuit is taken from a distribution
board supplied with 240V single-phase cable, again to BS6004 with cross
sectional area 25mm2 and design current 100A over length 30m. All cables
are clipped direct. Determine the voltage at the point of utilisation.
[231.1V]


6. Eight similar single-phase circuits are grouped together,
clipped-direct, each having a nominal design current of 24A and
protected by a 30A BS3036 semi-enclosed, rewireable fuse. The circuits
are run in 70°C PVC-insulated multicore, sheathed cables to BS6004. If
ambient temperature is 30°C and the cable run is 70m what is the minimum
cross sectional area that can be used and what is the voltage drop? [16
mm2, 4.7V]

7. A single-phase circuit is run in single core 70°C PVC-insulated and
sheathed cable clipped-direct and not bundled with other circuits. The
conductors are copper with a cross sectional area for the line conductor
of 4mm2 and protective conductor of 2.5mm2. The length of the cable run
is 45m and Ze=0.35W. Assuming an earth fault at the load with a loop
impedance for the cable of 16mW/m calculate the earth fault loop
impedance and the fault current that would flow with a 240V supply.
[1.07W, 224.3A]

8. In an installation which is part of a TN-C-S system a final circuit
is fed from a sub-distribution board. The distribution circuit from the
main board to the sub-distribution board is run in single-core 70°C
PVC-insulated cables having copper conductors. The live conductors being
25mm2 and protective conductor 16mm2 and a loop impedance of 2.59mW/m.
the distance between the distribution boards is 27m. The final circuit
is run in 6mm2 twin conductor with CPC with a loop impedance of 14.48
mW/m and length 22m. If Ze= 0.35W calculate the earth fault loop
impedance, a) at the sub-distribution board, b) at the final circuit
board. [0.42W, 0.74W]

9. A 240V single-phase circuit is run in BS6004 multicore cable with
main conductors of 16mm2 and protective conductor of 6mm2 and loop
impedance of 5.84 mW/m. the cable has a length of 40m, operates in an
ambient temperature of 30°C and has Ze=0.35W. Use the adiabatic equation
with K=115 to calculate the maximum disconnection time allowable for a
protective fuse. [2.8s]

10. A 240V single-phase circuit is run in 6mm2 two core with a 2.5mm2
CPC for a length of 35m. The cable has an earth loop impedance of 14.48
mW/m and Ze=0.35W. The circuit is protected by a 40A MCB (type B) which
offers a disconnection time of 0.1s. Check that the adiabatic equation
condition is satisfied if K=115. [78482856]

Thanks. - And i will certainly try to get the OSG.

One of the cheaper sources:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...ternodeltdcomp



--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message ,
John Rumm wrote:

Martin Angove wrote:


The exam questions are copyright City & Guilds, so example questions are
a little hard to come by. A clever Google on this group though might
throw up something interesting.

ISTR I culled a set of example questions from somewhere onece... not
sure how representertive they are but they seem like the sort fo thing I
would expect to find...

I can dig em out and post them if you want...


Ok, I was being a bit obtuse. Try

http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/ae/2381/

I put these up in 2003 when I took my 2381.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... Constant change is here to stay.

Martin Angove wrote:

Ok, I was being a bit obtuse. Try

Ah, ok see what you mean... ;-)

http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/ae/2381/

I put these up in 2003 when I took my 2381.

Some questions about your questions:

Have you get the answer sheet for the tail last few questions that are
missing answers? (I want to check my score! ;-)

What exam conditions are these taken in (i.e. open book / closed book /
with data sheet handouts etc?)

How many other papers are there? And what form do they take?

What is the required pass mark? (I take it there is just a pass/fail
result and not some sort of grading...)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message ,
John Rumm wrote:

Martin Angove wrote:

Ok, I was being a bit obtuse. Try

Ah, ok see what you mean... ;-)

http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/ae/2381/

I put these up in 2003 when I took my 2381.

Some questions about your questions:

Have you get the answer sheet for the tail last few questions that are
missing answers? (I want to check my score! ;-)

Errr... yes, I do have the answers knocking about somewhere. I'll try to
post them later.


What exam conditions are these taken in (i.e. open book / closed book /
with data sheet handouts etc?)

It's explained on the index page. Basically, open book (BS7671 & OSG)
calculator allowed (though you shouldn't need one). Note that my exam
was taken during the last issue of BS7671 (blue book) and therefore page
references may be different, and I suspect that there have been some new
questions added to do with harmonised colours etc.

How many other papers are there? And what form do they take?


The paper I copied those questions from was handed out by our lecturer
as practice. It wasn't in exactly the same format as the "real thing" so
had obviously been laid-out by him (or his secretary), but some of the
questions were so close to the ones on the actual paper that he must
have copied them down. In the exam, answers were marked on a separate
machine-readable sheet and the question papers were collected in at the
end and counted. We had three or four practice papers, but I don't have
the time any more to put that sort of thing on the website.

I guess that they re-use questions and given that there are probably
at least two opportunities per year to take this exam, and 60 questions
needed per paper, the last thing they want is six or seven "real" papers
"in the wild" as they'll likely as not contain all possible questions!

What is the required pass mark? (I take it there is just a pass/fail
result and not some sort of grading...)


Can't remember off hand. It was more than 50% FWIR, 65%? 70%?

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... The current death rate? One per person, of course.

Martin Angove wrote:

What exam conditions are these taken in (i.e. open book / closed book /
with data sheet handouts etc?)


It's explained on the index page.

Sorry, should have read that bit.. ;-)

Basically, open book (BS7671 & OSG)
calculator allowed (though you shouldn't need one). Note that my exam

I think I have dropped about three or questions so far (including the
Earth Fault Loop impedance one that made no sense) without using any
books... Admitedly a couple of answers were educated guesses though
(never had much cause to look up details for saunas!). So with the OSG
to hand that ought to make it pretty stright forward then I would guess....

How many other papers are there? And what form do they take?

The paper I copied those questions from was handed out by our lecturer
as practice. It wasn't in exactly the same format as the "real thing" so
had obviously been laid-out by him (or his secretary), but some of the

Yup, sorry me not being clear enough again... I was talking about the
"real thing" rather than the example.

The example you posted was a multiple choice paper, I was wondering if
the whole exam is like that, or whether there were more detailed writen
papers that followed (i.e. like exams when I were a lad).

questions were so close to the ones on the actual paper that he must
have copied them down. In the exam, answers were marked on a separate
machine-readable sheet and the question papers were collected in at the

Do you still have to fill em out in an a HB Pencil? ;-)

I guess that they re-use questions and given that there are probably
at least two opportunities per year to take this exam, and 60 questions
needed per paper, the last thing they want is six or seven "real" papers
"in the wild" as they'll likely as not contain all possible questions!

I think that is true of most exam papers. IIRC when I took my A levels
for things like computer science and physics there was perhaps a cache
of 60 questions for the papers of which 18 or so would make it into each
paper. So if you had a set of past papers you would have examples of
most types of questions even if the fine datail and the numbers would
change. IIRC they did a bigger change of questions each five years or so
to keep people on their toes. Probably not as easy when you want to test
knowedge and understanding of a particular set of documents though.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In message ,
John Rumm wrote:

Martin Angove wrote:

What exam conditions are these taken in (i.e. open book / closed book /
with data sheet handouts etc?)


It's explained on the index page.

Sorry, should have read that bit.. ;-)

We all do it :-)

Basically, open book (BS7671 & OSG)
calculator allowed (though you shouldn't need one). Note that my exam

I think I have dropped about three or questions so far (including the
Earth Fault Loop impedance one that made no sense) without using any
books... Admitedly a couple of answers were educated guesses though
(never had much cause to look up details for saunas!). So with the OSG
to hand that ought to make it pretty stright forward then I would guess....


It's better that way, so long as you are absolutely sure of yourself. At
two hours and 60 questions it averages (obviously) two minutes per
question. Any that you can do more quickly will gain you time for the
tricky ones.

How many other papers are there? And what form do they take?

The paper I copied those questions from was handed out by our lecturer
as practice. It wasn't in exactly the same format as the "real thing" so
had obviously been laid-out by him (or his secretary), but some of the

Yup, sorry me not being clear enough again... I was talking about the
"real thing" rather than the example.

The example you posted was a multiple choice paper, I was wondering if
the whole exam is like that, or whether there were more detailed writen
papers that followed (i.e. like exams when I were a lad).


No, for the 2381 that's it. One paper, multiple choice, 60 questions.
Unless things have changed since I did it. The 2391 is a lot more
effort, and includes a practical test.

questions were so close to the ones on the actual paper that he must
have copied them down. In the exam, answers were marked on a separate
machine-readable sheet and the question papers were collected in at the

Do you still have to fill em out in an a HB Pencil? ;-)

I think they're OCR'ed, but yes, the advice was pencil IIRC. If they
really do OCR them then anything black should do, though pencil at least
gives you the opportunity to change your mind :-)

I guess that they re-use questions and given that there are probably
at least two opportunities per year to take this exam, and 60 questions
needed per paper, the last thing they want is six or seven "real" papers
"in the wild" as they'll likely as not contain all possible questions!

I think that is true of most exam papers. IIRC when I took my A levels
for things like computer science and physics there was perhaps a cache
of 60 questions for the papers of which 18 or so would make it into each
paper. So if you had a set of past papers you would have examples of
most types of questions even if the fine datail and the numbers would
change. IIRC they did a bigger change of questions each five years or so
to keep people on their toes. Probably not as easy when you want to test
knowedge and understanding of a particular set of documents though.

Reminds me of Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency - Svlad Czelli (or
whoever he was before he became Dirk Gently) went through all the past
papers in his University's library and came up with a set of "most
likely" questions and was thrown out for cheating because he got them
exactly right :-)

Back to the thing I put up (in June 2003 from the filedates) it turns
out that I had actually prepared all the answers but hadn't got around
to uploading them! I have now done so. Have fun.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... Journeys begin with a single step, and a decision to take it.