On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 08:28:04 GMT, Stuart Noble
wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Thu, 28 Jul 2005 08:40:37 GMT, Stuart Noble
wrote:



But this isn't "wrong" , nor does it look wrong. I think your reputation
for reasoned argument has taken a bit of a knock here


OK, let me describe it differently.

Practical issues.

- Sticking it to the wall implies either sticking it to the surface of
a plaster skim coat or plasterboard. These are not really strong
surfaces.

Gripfil is about the stickiest thing after silicone and, spread across
the area of a skirting board, the bond is massive. The board would do
its job without any fixings at all except that it would keep falling
over. It's why you don't nail carpet to the floor.


There is substantial leverage of a 180mm wide piece of board,
especially if something is out of true.....

I think that sticking it to skim plaster or plasterboard is a weak
solution.


- If you need to remove the skirting you can't.

True, though laminate flooring is the only reason I can think of to
remove it.

Spawn of Satan.

One may wish to decorate or run signal cables behind it.




- If the skirting has a tendency to twist, which it may well, then it
will be pulling away from the wall.

Good quality skirting shouldn't twist. Of course it shrinks, but twist
is predictable and any decent merchant will select the right material
for the job. If it distorts in his yard, which it may well do in a warm
summer, he is stuck with unsaleable stock.

That may be true, but there remains the issue of untrue walls.




- If the wall isn't perfectly straight it will be difficult to
maintain it in position while it is being stuck.

The main function of Gripfil is to grip the wall *and* fill the voids.
What you shouldn't do IMO is try and persuade a straight board to follow
a ****ed wall because you're leaving the wood under tension which will
tend to split over time.

Along the length?

Obviously in a perfect world, all walls would be straight, but they
are not.


Also, skirting and picture rail are good for
creating the illusion of straightness in a room but the plaster/filler
has to follow the moulding rather than the other way round.

That depends.


Aesthetic issues.

- If I make a wooden construction, I can nail it together, screw it,
biscuit joint it or use another joint like a box or dovetail. These
range in terms of strength and visual appeal. The box and dovetail
joints give good strength and look aesthetically appealing as well.
So given that it is desirable to achieve the practical objectives
above by using screws to fasten the skirting board, it then makes
sense to use a method which produces a neat visual appearance and
where the concealing plugs can be removed if need be.

If your method *is* the chosen objective, then your method of concealing
it is the only option. A neighbour of mine insists on using 1" screws to
hang pictures when a picture hook would not only suffice, but would be
more elegant precisely because it isn't so secure.


A reasoned argument.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

chris French wrote:
In message , Andy Hall
writes
On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 13:44:40 GMT, Stuart Noble
wrote:


I don't think anyone can dispute that it's quicker, and a surface free
of holes and filler has to look better. It will certainly be firmly
fixed to the wall and any voids will be filled, so how can you improve
on that?


Doing it properly with counterbored screws and properly fitted wooden
plugs.

Yeah, but why is that better?

It isn't better per se. It is a feature nowadays confined to banks and
people who can afford such "features". In a firm that generally takes
on that kind of stuff there may only be one or two employees capable of
doing an artful job of it.

Few joiners will realise for instance, that hardwood plugs sent out on
site will if they have been bought in, come in a box that is a from a
different country to the bit of tree they are actually tittivating.

I have used No more nails etc. to fit skirting, but I've normally had to
nail or screw anyway as most of my walls aren't flat enough anyway
--
Chris French

What I do with plasterboard is glue with any-such-a mastic and pull the
board off to see if the mastic has clung to both wall and board. It is
the nearest you can get to a "rubbed joint" with skirting boards.

MDF needs to be pre drilled and counterbored whatever type of screw you
use, that is why I suggested a paslode earlier.

Lay the board in situe, slap a straight edge along it and see where the
bits touch. Drill there; once you have found out where the pipes and
wires aren't, glue and fix.

Then run along the top edge with caulking.

I use those black screws designed for tin studding. They will pin the
boards to the plasterboard without needing anything more solid behind
it. How long they will hold is not important. The glue will have time
to set in a few hours.

You can caulk it, fill the holes and paint it straight away.

The biggest problem with wide boards is something called "cupping". MDF
is safe from that. If you are using real treewood you need to use pairs
of screws if you are not going to glue it. You will also need to check
your insurance in case you hit a central heating pipe or something.

You only need to put a glue "soldier" where the screws are going
-rather than slather the back of the board with mastic. A dab every
metre or so is quite sufficient.

Talking about glue, use PVA on the joints. And don't forget to pin
mitred corners -not like I just remembered I didn't today. (OOPS.)

skyblue wrote:
I am planning to replace skirting boards by screwing, countersinking
and filling over the screw head. However I want to varnish (using a
dark oak coloured varnish) rather than paint the skirting, will the
filler be very visible through the varnish? Also, roughly how many
screws are required per metre and how far up the skirting should the
screws be fixed? I am using 7" torus skirting.

Why do you want to fill over the screw heads??? If you do it right
with decorative enough screws it'll look nice enough with the screws
showing!

Having been a homeowner in Norway, Switzerland and France before the
UK (now on my third UK house) I have preciously posted my displeasure
with British plumbing and wiring that possibly would have been illegal
in some of those other countries, and the British way of laying carpets
and flooring is next ;-) ...

What's wrong with making things easy to take off and put on again???
"Back home" (Norway) we always used to take the skirting etc. off to
put down new wall-to-wall carpets, while here (even in my brand new
Barratt piece-of-crap house) trying to do so results in serious damage
to the walls. In Switzerland I unscrewed skirting etc. to run new
phone cables from basement (where the phone line came in) to the first
floor in an hour with no visible damage apart from the new exit box.
And in France most of my skirtings and the wood around the doors
*clipped* on (and off) which sounds dodgy but never caused a problem,
although I have to admit I had it built off-plan and as I only was
there for two years I can't judge the long-term practicality...