Hello, I have posted about this plumber before as I am still having
problems with my central heating system, but his invoice for a few
small jobs must be the reason why so many people want to become
plumbers these days

1 emergency call out to fit a new washer on the pipe connecting the
dishwasher (time of actual work 10 minutes)

all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max

he first wanted to also charge for work ot the central heating system
that I insist was warranty related. With my stubborn resistance he
lowered the invoice. This guy used to be the "family" plumber, hence I
did not insist on quotes for all of the above thinking that I full
well knew ball park figures for these jobs.

Anybody wishing to take a guess...

280 pounds all inclusive.

Say the callout cost me 100 quid - money quickly made for him but
never mind. The rest are small jobs imho, certainly not worth 180
pounds, even in a decent, fairly expensive part of the North. Is there
a comeback for me or just a bitter pill to swallow?

Fred

In message , Fred
writes
Hello, I have posted about this plumber before as I am still having
problems with my central heating system, but his invoice for a few
small jobs must be the reason why so many people want to become
plumbers these days

1 emergency call out to fit a new washer on the pipe connecting the
dishwasher (time of actual work 10 minutes)

all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max

he first wanted to also charge for work ot the central heating system
that I insist was warranty related. With my stubborn resistance he
lowered the invoice. This guy used to be the "family" plumber, hence I
did not insist on quotes for all of the above thinking that I full
well knew ball park figures for these jobs.

Anybody wishing to take a guess...

280 pounds all inclusive.

Say the callout cost me 100 quid - money quickly made for him but
never mind. The rest are small jobs imho, certainly not worth 180
pounds, even in a decent, fairly expensive part of the North. Is there
a comeback for me or just a bitter pill to swallow?

It sounds excessive, but then it's a diy ng

you could have done it for a few tens of quids

--
geoff

"Fred" wrote:
It sounds a lot to me, but I would have got a quote first.
I wouldn't be surprised if £50/hour + bits came to £180.

You could try phoning Consumer Direct and see what
they think. Their number is on: http://www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/

Al

In article ,
Fred wrote:
all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max

How many pairs of hands has he? ;-)

--
*He who laughs last, thinks slowest.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

This guy used to be the "family" plumber, hence I did not
insist on quotes for all of the above thinking that I full
well knew ball park figures for these jobs.

Do you get into minicabs without checking the price first too?

Christian.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max


How many pairs of hands has he? ;-)


Quite - I'd say if your plumber can do all that in an hour and a half,
then good for him. I think the rate is fine for the job, but I'd have
expected the job to take twice as long.


--
Grunff

Christian McArdle wrote:
This guy used to be the "family" plumber, hence I did not
insist on quotes for all of the above thinking that I full
well knew ball park figures for these jobs.


Do you get into minicabs without checking the price first too?

Christian.




Happens a lot, done it myself, especially friday / satturday nights!

Alex.

In article ,
Grunff wrote:
all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max

How many pairs of hands has he? ;-)

Quite - I'd say if your plumber can do all that in an hour and a half,
then good for him. I think the rate is fine for the job, but I'd have
expected the job to take twice as long.

Yup. Now obviously I'm not a pro, but allowing for getting the parts, I'd
say a day would be nearer the mark with all that draining down and
re-filling etc.

--
*Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hello, I have posted about this plumber before as I am still having
problems with my central heating system, but his invoice for a few
small jobs must be the reason why so many people want to become
plumbers these days

No its the reason why its worth learning a bit of DIY.

1 emergency call out to fit a new washer on the pipe connecting the
dishwasher (time of actual work 10 minutes)

Why on earth would you want to make an emergency call-out for your
dishwasher. Learn how to isolate your appliances.


all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max

he first wanted to also charge for work ot the central heating system
that I insist was warranty related. With my stubborn resistance he
lowered the invoice. This guy used to be the "family" plumber, hence I
did not insist on quotes for all of the above thinking that I full
well knew ball park figures for these jobs.

Being?


Anybody wishing to take a guess...

280 pounds all inclusive.

Say the callout cost me 100 quid - money quickly made for him but
never mind. The rest are small jobs imho, certainly not worth 180
pounds, even in a decent, fairly expensive part of the North. Is there
a comeback for me or just a bitter pill to swallow?

It's not a plumber's invoice at all, its an emergency plumbers invoice.
Don't use emergency call-outs for routine work.

Jim A

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Grunff wrote:
all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max

How many pairs of hands has he? ;-)

Quite - I'd say if your plumber can do all that in an hour and a half,
then good for him. I think the rate is fine for the job, but I'd have
expected the job to take twice as long.

Yup. Now obviously I'm not a pro,

That is plainly clear, so will you keep quiet.

In article .net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
How many pairs of hands has he? ;-)

Quite - I'd say if your plumber can do all that in an hour and a half,
then good for him. I think the rate is fine for the job, but I'd have
expected the job to take twice as long.

Yup. Now obviously I'm not a pro,

That is plainly clear, so will you keep quiet.

As usual, no advice or information to the OP. And since you claim to be a
pro, I'd have thought this right up your street.

But of course no such information in the boiler maker's catalogues. Or on
a website.

--
*When the going gets tough, use duct tape

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
How many pairs of hands has he? ;-)

Quite - I'd say if your plumber can do all that in an hour and a
half,
then good for him. I think the rate is fine for the job, but I'd
have
expected the job to take twice as long.

Yup. Now obviously I'm not a pro,

That is plainly clear, so will you keep quiet.

As usual,

Just keep quiet. You don't know.

280 pounds all inclusive.

Sounds very reasonable to me.

"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hello, I have posted about this plumber before as I am still having
problems with my central heating system, but his invoice for a few
small jobs must be the reason why so many people want to become
plumbers these days

1 emergency call out to fit a new washer on the pipe connecting the
dishwasher (time of actual work 10 minutes)

all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max

he first wanted to also charge for work ot the central heating system
that I insist was warranty related. With my stubborn resistance he
lowered the invoice. This guy used to be the "family" plumber, hence I
did not insist on quotes for all of the above thinking that I full
well knew ball park figures for these jobs.

Anybody wishing to take a guess...

280 pounds all inclusive.

Say the callout cost me 100 quid - money quickly made for him but
never mind. The rest are small jobs imho, certainly not worth 180
pounds, even in a decent, fairly expensive part of the North. Is there
a comeback for me or just a bitter pill to swallow?

Fred

£280 for 90 mins, does that include colleting the fitting, his transport
costs, public liability insurance, income tax, accountant fees, wear and
tear on tools, holidays, work wear, telephone charges. I don't think he get
much left to put in his pocket.

"keith_765" wrote:


"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hello, I have posted about this plumber before as I am still having
problems with my central heating system, but his invoice for a few
small jobs must be the reason why so many people want to become
plumbers these days

1 emergency call out to fit a new washer on the pipe connecting the
dishwasher (time of actual work 10 minutes)

all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max

he first wanted to also charge for work ot the central heating system
that I insist was warranty related. With my stubborn resistance he
lowered the invoice. This guy used to be the "family" plumber, hence I
did not insist on quotes for all of the above thinking that I full
well knew ball park figures for these jobs.

Anybody wishing to take a guess...

280 pounds all inclusive.

Say the callout cost me 100 quid - money quickly made for him but
never mind. The rest are small jobs imho, certainly not worth 180
pounds, even in a decent, fairly expensive part of the North. Is there
a comeback for me or just a bitter pill to swallow?

Fred

£280 for 90 mins, does that include colleting the fitting, his transport
costs, public liability insurance, income tax, accountant fees, wear and
tear on tools, holidays, work wear, telephone charges. I don't think he get
much left to put in his pocket.



Opinions much appreciated. I will learn some more diy when I have a
moment, but I am always amazed that a reasonably qualified plumber in
a good market should basically earn triple the salary of a nurse or a
midwife. That is basically why I am constantly suspicious.

Oh, the one information missing in my original post was that the
system was already drained due to warranty work to the CH. That is
what brings down the time spent to fit a TSV from a few hours to a few
minutes imho.

My ballpark figures came from a plumber in Sheffield. He worked
incredibly hard and always charged fair prices, which he quoted upon
seeing the work before I had a chance to ask. My mistake to take him
for granted elsewhere in the country I suppose.

Fred

In article ,
Fred wrote:
Oh, the one information missing in my original post was that the
system was already drained due to warranty work to the CH. That is
what brings down the time spent to fit a TSV from a few hours to a few
minutes imho.

Was the TRV of an identical type? If not, they're not necessarily a simple
swap. And he'd also have to include the cost of getting/supplying it,
unless you did this yourself.

--
*Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Fred wrote in message
Opinions much appreciated. I will learn some more diy when I have a
moment, but I am always amazed that a reasonably qualified plumber in
a good market should basically earn triple the salary of a nurse or a
midwife.

Simply market forces at work, some years ago my thick son-in-law was earning
£400 a day working as a contractor in I.T. now he's out of a job,
but now you cant get a decent tradesman for any price.
Do Schools/collage's now teach any practical skills? Nope but they're still
turning out the computer literate.

In message ,
(Fred) wrote:

I am always amazed that a reasonably qualified plumber in a good
market should basically earn triple the salary of a nurse or a
midwife. That is basically why I am constantly suspicious.


It isn't the same thing at all. A nurse (or a teacher or a fireman or a
policeman) gets to take home a large chunk of their before-tax "salary".
You can assume that someone whose after-tax salary works out to about
£120 a day (long-serving teacher for example) has £120 in their pocket
at the end of this day with which to buy the shopping.

I, on the other hand, working as an electrician end up *charging* around
£150 a day for labour (depends on various things, obviously). That money
doesn't come to me at all, neither before nor after tax. That money
belongs to my ltd company and the *first* thing that company must do
with the money is to pay bills; insurances, membership of professional
bodies, telephone, tools, taxes, bank charges etc. etc. (see similar
list elsewhere in the thread). Only after all that has been taken care
of can I work out how much "profit" the company has made, and how much
of that I can afford to pay myself, while leaving some to the company
for future investment, in a van perhaps as I currently work out of my
own car.

And of course, I don't work every day so although I may have a cheque
for £150 in the bank account from work I did on Monday, if I don't work
Tuesday then the rate is effectively halved. If I take a week holiday...
well, you can see what happens.

So from the £150 a day I charge a customer, at the moment (business has
been slow the last few months) I am lucky if I actually receive £20 a
(working) day in my pocket.

That isn't the long-term plan of course. Long term I aim to pay myself
the equivalent of £40 or £50 a day, but to do this I worked out (a while
ago, so the figures are probably different now) that I need to work the
equivalent of 18 days a month at £150 a day. For those in "normal" jobs
this is only the eqivalent of a normal five days by four weeks month
with two days in hand for holidays.

Compare this £40 with my wife who, as a teacher with sought-after
special needs skills, gets £180 (before tax) per day as a supply
teacher.

Hwyl!

M.

--
Martin Angove: http://www.tridwr.demon.co.uk/
Two free issues: http://www.livtech.co.uk/ Living With Technology
.... 'E's an 'alibut.

I had a plumber that tried to charge me £170 for a stench pipe.
Needless to say I told him to take it back and I got one down at the
builders yard for a fraction of that.

"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hello, I have posted about this plumber before as I am still having
problems with my central heating system, but his invoice for a few
small jobs must be the reason why so many people want to become
plumbers these days

1 emergency call out to fit a new washer on the pipe connecting the
dishwasher (time of actual work 10 minutes)

all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max

he first wanted to also charge for work ot the central heating system
that I insist was warranty related. With my stubborn resistance he
lowered the invoice. This guy used to be the "family" plumber, hence I
did not insist on quotes for all of the above thinking that I full
well knew ball park figures for these jobs.

Anybody wishing to take a guess...

280 pounds all inclusive.

Say the callout cost me 100 quid - money quickly made for him but
never mind. The rest are small jobs imho, certainly not worth 180
pounds, even in a decent, fairly expensive part of the North. Is there
a comeback for me or just a bitter pill to swallow?

Fred

On Fri, 08 Jul 2005 13:31:45 +0100, Jim Alexander wrote:


"Fred" wrote in message
...
Hello, I have posted about this plumber before as I am still having
problems with my central heating system, but his invoice for a few
small jobs must be the reason why so many people want to become
plumbers these days

No its the reason why its worth learning a bit of DIY.

1 emergency call out to fit a new washer on the pipe connecting the
dishwasher (time of actual work 10 minutes)

Why on earth would you want to make an emergency call-out for your
dishwasher. Learn how to isolate your appliances.


all in one outing
1 thermostatic valve fitted to a radiator
1 tap swapped at the kitchen sink
1 replaced stoptap and ball valve
total time of this outing 90 minutes max

he first wanted to also charge for work ot the central heating system
that I insist was warranty related. With my stubborn resistance he
lowered the invoice. This guy used to be the "family" plumber, hence I
did not insist on quotes for all of the above thinking that I full
well knew ball park figures for these jobs.

Being?


Anybody wishing to take a guess...

280 pounds all inclusive.

Say the callout cost me 100 quid - money quickly made for him but
never mind. The rest are small jobs imho, certainly not worth 180
pounds, even in a decent, fairly expensive part of the North. Is there
a comeback for me or just a bitter pill to swallow?

It's not a plumber's invoice at all, its an emergency plumbers invoice.
Don't use emergency call-outs for routine work.


Quite so.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html