kiich wrote:

Not that i can see. i think it must be pretty old?
because i couldnt see any manual lever/switch etc, i thought i'm not
meant to open it

Chances are it is a spring return diversion valve then. Don't worry too
much about it until you have proved the room stat signals are being
generated and getting through correctly though.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

kiich wrote:

yeah kind of! i saw that as well - but mine must be an older model as i
do not have the red switch like the on on the web.

So i have to manually open it right?

If you want to get into it...

(although see other comments regarding the room stat first)

thanks ;-) i wasnt sure because i have never seen a 2 port valve - but
should have guessed mine is 3 port! thanks.

Looks like:

http://www.sunvic.co.uk/2pmv.html

ok - so lets say i take off the cover from the box on top of the brass
- i should be expecting:

a) somekind of know or wheel that indicates what the valve is set

Possibly, but not always.

b) these settings a CH, HW and CH/HW - correct? or is CH,HW and
auto?

You may only have the choice of CH or HW on the valve. If that is the
case when he programmer asks for CH & HW the valve will just do HW.

c) i should be able to turn the know/wheel to CH only and test if i get
CH

You will probably need to take the motor off the shaft coming out of
valve body first...

and lets say i can take off the motor completely (you mean the box
sitting on the brass right?) and i turn it manually and place it back
on and start again - if i still have no CH, i call a plumber to
replace the valve right?

Not necessarily. If the valve is a mid position type (rather than a
simple spring return one) then you need to prove that the request that
puts the valve into the CH position is actually getting there. Since
without that you would get the symptoms you are seeing and the valve
itself may actually be fine.

kiichi - when you say CH programmer, you mean the "7 day immersion
heater timer" ?

No, I mean the time switch. ("programmer" may be a bit over egging the
description for some of the older boiler time switches!)

i had a look last night and i can only see 1 cable coming from the7 day
immersion heater.

Many of the immersion time switches carry the full load current of the
immersion heater. Hence you would expect to usually have a pair of hefty
T&E cables coming in and out of the controller.

ok - so the only thing that i can feel by touching the pipes that are
not hot (enough) is one of the pipe coming out of the valve towards
"central heating" - so must be the valve set to HW only?

Yes.

Or does the pipes for CH not get that hot??

Nope, it should get as hot as the pipe going into the valve (or the one
going currently to the cylinder)



ok - well it isnt.

Tis because the valve is in the HW only position.

Either because it is knackered, or something that ought to be telling it
to do something other than HW is knackered!

thanks - wish me luck

Good luck!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

In article .com,
kiich wrote:
Ah. I was assuming somewhere in the flat there is a thermostat that
sets the overall temp, and TRVs in the rooms trim that. Commonly in
the hallway. Or have *all* rads got TRVs?

There is 1 thermostat near the living room. apart from that, i cant
find any in the flat.

I'm now assuming you're a troll.

--
*Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article .net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Please do take any notice of this man when it comes to heating.

You really are rattled? Nice.

Of course answering the problem is again too much for you. You'd get a man
in.

--
*If a parsley farmer is sued, can they garnish his wages?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article .com,
kiich wrote:

Ah. I was assuming somewhere in the flat there is a thermostat that
sets the overall temp, and TRVs in the rooms trim that. Commonly in
the hallway. Or have *all* rads got TRVs?


There is 1 thermostat near the living room. apart from that, i cant
find any in the flat.


I'm now assuming you're a troll.

I think so too, the whole thread is complete windup or the guy is a fool
who shouldn't be messing with this.

kiich wrote:
Looks a bit like?:

http://www.sunvic.co.uk/3pmv.h tml

I could not find the exact model number of yours on the site, and hence
can't tell if yours is a mid position valve or just a diverter. The
current one seems to be mid position.


yeah kind of! i saw that as well - but mine must be an older model as i
do not have the red switch like the on on the web.

So i have to manually open it right?



how do i know that this is 2 or 3 port valve though?

Count the pipes! - From your description yours is a 3 port. It has one
pipe in and two out. (A 2 port valve is just like a motorised tap - it
can be on or off. The three port can not shut off the flow of water,
only change its path).


thanks ;-) i wasnt sure because i have never seen a 2 port valve - but
should have guessed mine is 3 port! thanks.



i haven't opened up the plastic case yet - because i was scared it
might cause damage or water might come out - should i worry about these
things?

No - they are in two parts. The brass bit at the bottom is the wet part.
It will usually have a small spindle that sticks out of it to control
the position of the tap elements inside it. The box sat on top contains
a motor and some control electronics. The motor turns the tap.

It is not uncommon for motors to fail, or for the taps to seize. You can
usually remove the motor completely and see if you can turn the tap
spindle manually (perhaps with a pair of pliers - it should not take
much force to turn). You may find that if it is seized, it may only be
temporarily - manually turning it may fix the problem.



ok - so lets say i take off the cover from the box on top of the brass
- i should be expecting:

a) somekind of know or wheel that indicates what the valve is set
b) these settings a CH, HW and CH/HW - correct? or is CH,HW and
auto?
c) i should be able to turn the know/wheel to CH only and test if i get
CH

and lets say i can take off the motor completely (you mean the box
sitting on the brass right?) and i turn it manually and place it back
on and start again - if i still have no CH, i call a plumber to
replace the valve right?

thanks for the explanation on the pipes into the cylinder as well"



kiichi
the 7 day immersion heater timer was indeed connected to the top of
cylinder - so i think i can say that this is for the backup only right?
and can have it set to "PERMANENTLY OFF" setting??


So there is no connection between the CH programmer and the time switch
like you thought the other day then?


kiichi - when you say CH programmer, you mean the "7 day immersion
heater timer" ?

And "time switch" as in the boiler programmer? sorry to ask a daft one
here...

i had a look last night and i can only see 1 cable coming from the7 day
immersion heater.



If so, good - that makes it simple. It looks like this is an ordinary
immersion heater which you can ignore unless your boiler dies of you
feel guilty about having such small electricity bills ;-)


thanks


the pipe coming out of the valve out of the "hot water" port is HOT
the pipe coming out of the valve out of the "central heating" port is
warm/cold as it gets to the floor

That kind of indicates to me that there is no hot water going towards
the radiators, right?


Yup, spot on.


ok - so the only thing that i can feel by touching the pipes that are
not hot (enough) is one of the pipe coming out of the valve towards
"central heating" - so must be the valve set to HW only?



Or does the pipes for CH not get that hot??

Nope, it should get as hot as the pipe going into the valve (or the one
going currently to the cylinder)



ok - well it isnt.


as i said i havent opened up the valve (the white plastic on the valve)
because i was too scared to do it myself and cause damage but i can
do it myself right without getting a plumber in?

Yup, you can do it yourself.


thanks - wish me luck


all power to the valve, boiler and everything else in the airing
cupboard is OFF before i do this.

Yup - it is usually all fed from the boiler. So if you turn that off at
the wall the rest will be off as well. Note that this does not apply to
the immersion heater which will typically be independent.


that makes sense as when i switch off the power socket that is powering
the boiler (the power socket that has text "fuse" displayed on), the
boiler,boiler programmer, pump, valve and cylinder stops BUT the 7 day
immersion heater stays on!! so the power to that must be independent as
you said.

thanks for all the info - will update tomorrow!
kiichi

Why does this guy keep mixing up the immersion circuit with the
electrics for the CH system? They are not related at all. If he is not a
troll he is in danger of doing himself harm.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
kiich wrote:
Ah. I was assuming somewhere in the flat there is a thermostat that
sets the overall temp, and TRVs in the rooms trim that. Commonly in
the hallway. Or have *all* rads got TRVs?

There is 1 thermostat near the living room. apart from that, i cant
find any in the flat.

I'm now assuming you're a troll.

Well it takes one to know one.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .net,
Doctor Evil wrote:

Please do take any notice of this man when it comes to heating.

You really are

Please do take any notice of this man when it comes to heating.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

"riccip" wrote:
It's reasonable to assume a flat would have a small boiler,
otherwise it depends on the household demand for hot water.

Since you're talking about a storage system, an immersion just outputs 3
KW. Any half decent central heating system will input a great deal more
than that to the storage tank.

And therein lies the problem. Using your boiler just to heat HW
alone is a bit like putting a V8 engine into a moped. That's why
combi-boilers were invented (although personally I hate the
wretched things!).

An immersion heater is 100% efficient from the moment it switches
on and requires minimal energy to maintain optimum water
temperature. A gas boiler can be as low as 50% efficient when
heating just the copper cylinder. The system has a warm up period
where no heat is being transferred. Much of the heat produced by
burning gas disappears up the flue and more is lost from the
pipework runs to the HW cylinder, often positioned some distance
from the boiler.

On cold winter mornings any boiler is best left to heat the house ASAP
if "Economy 7" electricity (or it's equivalent) is available.

Then switch on the boiler earlier. And cheap rate electricity isn't
economical for limited use.

It's not that simple an equation. A boiler works hardest when
warming the house from cold. Once the desired temperature has
been reached an efficient CH system with TRVs burns considerably
less gas maintaining those temperatures. So the sooner desired
room temperatures are reached the better and more economical.
Therefore if the HW cylinder has already been heated on Economy 7
the boiler will more rapidly heat the house.

It's expensive to use unless you have cheaper night-time
electricity, in which case you'd set the timer to heat it at
night.

Also during the summer when you don't use your CH it can
be cheaper to turn the boiler off and just heat the water by
electricity.

Again, it would be a very inefficient gas boiler/system where full price
electricity would be cheaper. And running the boiler every day for hot
water keeps the pump in good fettle.

Which is why I said "cheaper night-time electricity". However in
the summer there is no more expensive way to heat water than
leaving a conventional boiler cycling over the HW system alone,
unless you mean combi-boilers?

Why would it cycle? You set the programmer to heat the cylinder then
switch off.

Ask amongst your friends and you will be surprised at the number
of people who leave the boiler on all day to keep the water hot.
Even if it's timed for an hour it will begin to cycle according
to the boiler's stat, thus wasting an incredible amount of gas.
As HW is used, even a minimal amount, the boiler works hard to
reheat that portion of the cylinder.

And if you left an immersion on all the time it would cost even more.

Certainly on peak-time electricity it would. However peak
electricity shouldn't necessarily be considered taboo. Take an
electric shower for example. Heavy on electricity but only for a
few minutes, offering considerable savings over a gas heated
shower arrangement.

riccip

"riccip" wrote in message
...

And therein lies the problem. Using
your boiler just to heat HW
alone is a bit like putting a V8
engine into a moped.

Total tripe. Gas is approx 1/4 of the cost of electricty. You heat DHW
with gas AT ALL TIMES. A larger bopioer means a quick recovery rate.

That's why combi-boilers were invented

Combi boilers were invented by the French in the early 1960s and they were
invented to save space. Good combi's work very well, cheapo's not so well -
same will many things in life.

Ask amongst your friends and you will be surprised at the number
of people who leave the boiler on all day to keep the water hot.
Even if it's timed for an hour it will begin to cycle according
to the boiler's stat, thus wasting an incredible amount of gas.

Not if you have a quick recovery coil and two cylidner stats, it will not.

Certainly on peak-time electricity it would. However peak
electricity shouldn't necessarily be considered taboo. Take an
electric shower for example. Heavy on electricity but only for a
few minutes, offering considerable savings over a gas heated
shower arrangement.

You talk total and utter balls!!! Stop making things up.

"Doctor Evil" wrote:

Gas is approx 1/4 of the cost of electricty.

Uninformed.

A larger bopioer means a quick recovery rate.

Illiterate.

You talk total and utter balls!!! Stop making things up.

Hardly a clever troll but you have amusement value.

riccip

riccip wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

And therein lies the problem. Using your boiler just to heat HW
alone is a bit like putting a V8 engine into a moped.

what exactly is the problem? I'm not seeing one.


That's why
combi-boilers were invented (although personally I hate the
wretched things!).

An immersion heater is 100% efficient from the moment it switches
on

yes, but thats not the whole picture. but its downsides normally
outweigh the upside.


and requires minimal energy to maintain optimum water
temperature. A gas boiler can be as low as 50% efficient when
heating just the copper cylinder.

please tell us which new gas boiler is 50% efficient. And when and why
one would heat just a copper cylinder.


The system has a warm up period
where no heat is being transferred.

yup, same for immersions. Measured in seconds in both cases.


Much of the heat produced by
burning gas disappears up the flue

well, 5 - 10%


and more is lost from the
pipework runs to the HW cylinder, often positioned some distance
from the boiler.

very little.


It's not that simple an equation. A boiler works hardest when
warming the house from cold. Once the desired temperature has
been reached an efficient CH system with TRVs burns considerably
less gas maintaining those temperatures.

ok

So the sooner desired
room temperatures are reached the better and more economical.

not quite that simple


Therefore if the HW cylinder has already been heated on Economy 7
the boiler will more rapidly heat the house.

it makes no difference whether the HW is heated before or after the
morning house heat up. Only when its heated during, which some systems
do permit, will it make any difference to heat up speed. But its really
no big issue.


Ask amongst your friends and you will be surprised at the number
of people who leave the boiler on all day to keep the water hot.
Even if it's timed for an hour it will begin to cycle according
to the boiler's stat, thus wasting an incredible amount of gas.

why is it incredible?


As HW is used, even a minimal amount, the boiler works hard to
reheat that portion of the cylinder.

you mean the same as an immersion does?


And if you left an immersion on all the time it would cost even more.

Certainly on peak-time electricity it would. However peak
electricity shouldn't necessarily be considered taboo. Take an
electric shower for example. Heavy on electricity but only for a
few minutes, offering considerable savings over a gas heated
shower arrangement.

Just how is 100% efficient 7p/unit electric heating cheaper than 90%
efficient 2p/unit heating?


NT

wrote in message
oups.com...

And therein lies the problem. Using your boiler just to heat HW

and requires minimal energy to maintain optimum water
temperature. A gas boiler can be as low as 50% efficient when
heating just the copper cylinder.

please tell us which new gas boiler is 50% efficient. And when and why
one would heat just a copper cylinder.

Although I think gas does still win out, all the energy from the electric
immersion heater goes into the water whereas running up a boiler 'from cold'
means it has to heat itself, it's piping and so on as well as the water.
But I still think gas works out better simply because it is so much cheaper.


The system has a warm up period
where no heat is being transferred.

yup, same for immersions. Measured in seconds in both cases.

No - electric is seconds - gas is minutes.

Mike wrote:
wrote in message

The system has a warm up period
where no heat is being transferred.

yup, same for immersions. Measured in seconds in both cases.

No - electric is seconds - gas is minutes.

its 10-20 seconds here.

NT

"Mike" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

And therein lies the problem. Using your boiler just to heat HW

and requires minimal energy to maintain optimum water
temperature. A gas boiler can be as low as 50% efficient when
heating just the copper cylinder.

please tell us which new gas boiler is 50% efficient. And when and why
one would heat just a copper cylinder.

Although I think gas does still win out, all the energy from the electric
immersion heater goes into the water whereas running up a boiler 'from
cold'
means it has to heat itself, it's piping and so on as well as the water.
But I still think gas works out better simply because it is so much
cheaper.


The system has a warm up period
where no heat is being transferred.

yup, same for immersions. Measured in seconds in both cases.

No - electric is seconds - gas is minutes.

Unless it is a 20kW immersion heater, gas is faster.

"riccip" wrote in message
...
"Doctor Evil" wrote:

Gas is approx 1/4 of the cost of electricty.

Uninformed.

You clearly have not a clue, and make thing up. If you want to know just
ask.

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Mike" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

And therein lies the problem. Using your boiler just to heat HW

and requires minimal energy to maintain optimum water
temperature. A gas boiler can be as low as 50% efficient when
heating just the copper cylinder.

please tell us which new gas boiler is 50% efficient. And when and why
one would heat just a copper cylinder.

Although I think gas does still win out, all the energy from the
electric
immersion heater goes into the water whereas running up a boiler 'from
cold'
means it has to heat itself, it's piping and so on as well as the water.
But I still think gas works out better simply because it is so much
cheaper.


The system has a warm up period
where no heat is being transferred.

yup, same for immersions. Measured in seconds in both cases.

No - electric is seconds - gas is minutes.

Unless it is a 20kW immersion heater, gas is faster.

I think you've missed the original quote. We were talking about the initial
warm up time when no useful work is done.

"Mike" wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
eenews.net...

"Mike" wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...

And therein lies the problem. Using your boiler just to heat HW

and requires minimal energy to maintain optimum water
temperature. A gas boiler can be as low as 50% efficient when
heating just the copper cylinder.

please tell us which new gas boiler is 50% efficient. And when and
why
one would heat just a copper cylinder.

Although I think gas does still win out, all the energy from the
electric
immersion heater goes into the water whereas running up a boiler 'from
cold'
means it has to heat itself, it's piping and so on as well as the
water.
But I still think gas works out better simply because it is so much
cheaper.


The system has a warm up period
where no heat is being transferred.

yup, same for immersions. Measured in seconds in both cases.

No - electric is seconds - gas is minutes.

Unless it is a 20kW immersion heater, gas is faster.

I think you've missed the original quote. We were talking about the
initial
warm up time when no useful work is done.

Which is so short it is irrelevant to the main point.

hi john
thanks for the reply.

Just checked everything i was going to this weekend after reading
allthe replies etc.

first of all, thanks for all the replies by everyone - i guess the
things i am asking is fundamental stuff and maybe i shouldnt be doing
this without knowing much about DIY - but who wouldnt want to know
what's going in his/her OWN house once they purchase their first
property?

i'm just asking for answers to my concerns - and i appreciate even the
ones telling me i shouldnt be doing some of these things myself - as i
do kind of agree and i apologies if i am misunderstaning/getting
confused on certain stuff.

but if you can imagine if you have never seen something before and
wanted to learn, i would imagine starting with the most fundamental
question is an ok way to start to learn? if i was helping someone with
something in my profession, i wouldnt start off by telling them that
they are a troll (whatever that means ...)

anyways, rant over and here's more questions:

1) i do have a chunky manual room stat - and i cant even find it on the
sunvic website anymore. and i do hear it click as i rotate it around.

2) i took the motor of the motorised valve off the other night - and
saw a tap spindle. didnt have any lable/indication to say which way to
tur nfor CH or HW etc - so i just turned it the "other" way around -
and my radiators came on!!
my boiler's timer settings was on CH and HW BOTH.

so if i turn the spidnle manualy, the CH comes on.

that means it can only be:

a) the motor is buggered for the motorised valve
OR
b) the wiring is not telling the boiler to do CH

correct?

so if i left the spindle in the position where the CH started to work,
does that mean my HW will now NOT work?
i did not see or work out what/where this "mid-position" is though on
the brass bit - is it inside the motor part?

thanks

if it is "spring return diversion valve", does that mean its 2 port or
3 port?
havent checked the room stat yet

kiich wrote:

first of all, thanks for all the replies by everyone - i guess the
things i am asking is fundamental stuff and maybe i shouldnt be doing
this without knowing much about DIY - but who wouldnt want to know
what's going in his/her OWN house once they purchase their first
property?

Ask away. you will probably get all the answers you need if you ignore
the occasional diversion!

i'm just asking for answers to my concerns - and i appreciate even the
ones telling me i shouldnt be doing some of these things myself - as i
do kind of agree and i apologies if i am misunderstaning/getting
confused on certain stuff.

Don't worry... You will soon find which jobs you feel comfortable taking
on yourself. You just need to learn when to ignore the "wet wing" of the
uk.d-i-y party ;-)

but if you can imagine if you have never seen something before and
wanted to learn, i would imagine starting with the most fundamental
question is an ok way to start to learn? if i was helping someone with
something in my profession, i wouldnt start off by telling them that
they are a troll (whatever that means ...)

From time to time you may see posts asking deliberately obtuse
questions with the only purpose being to start an argument or wind folks
up. Some folks don't remember what it was like to be a novice and band
the term around a bit too easily!

anyways, rant over and here's more questions:

1) i do have a chunky manual room stat - and i cant even find it on the
sunvic website anymore. and i do hear it click as i rotate it around.

Good - the mechanics sound like they are working.

2) i took the motor of the motorised valve off the other night - and
saw a tap spindle. didnt have any lable/indication to say which way to
tur nfor CH or HW etc - so i just turned it the "other" way around -
and my radiators came on!!
my boiler's timer settings was on CH and HW BOTH.

so if i turn the spidnle manualy, the CH comes on.

that means it can only be:

a) the motor is buggered for the motorised valve

if so you can buy the motor part separately from the wet bit. That saves
having to mess about with plumbing if it is just the motor that has gone
titsup.

OR
b) the wiring is not telling the boiler to do CH

correct?

Yup....

or possibly the valve is very stiff and the motor is trying to turn it
but can't. (you would know that from how hard it was to turn manually).

so if i left the spindle in the position where the CH started to work,
does that mean my HW will now NOT work?
i did not see or work out what/where this "mid-position" is though on
the brass bit - is it inside the motor part?

If it is a mid position valve then it would be as the name suggests -
about half way through the rotation between one extreme and the other.
In the mid position you will get the hot water flow from the boiler
divided between the cylinder and the rads. Did you count the number of
wires connected up to the valve electronics?


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

kiich wrote:

if it is "spring return diversion valve", does that mean its 2 port or
3 port?

Diversion would imply three port - i.e. it diverts flow from one circuit
to another (think of set of railway points). A two port valve can only
stop or allow flow. These are typically called zone valves.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

John - thanks for the re-assurance about asking Questions, it is a good
to know you dont mind helping complete DIY novice like myself

John Rumm wrote:
[...]

1) i do have a chunky manual room stat - and i cant even find it on the
sunvic website anymore. and i do hear it click as i rotate it around.

Good - the mechanics sound like they are working.


But how do I check the "clicking" mechanism part is actually telling
the programmer on the boiler to kick in CH? I have now set the settings
on the boiler programmer to be just "CH only" and to "Constant"

So I was *assuming* when I rotate the room stat to the highest it can
go i.e. 25 degrees plus, that will start the boiler up - however it
didnt and nothing is happening to the boiler.


that means it can only be:

a) the motor is buggered for the motorised valve

if so you can buy the motor part separately from the wet bit. That saves
having to mess about with plumbing if it is just the motor that has gone
titsup.
OR
b) the wiring is not telling the boiler to do CH

correct?

Yup....

or possibly the valve is very stiff and the motor is trying to turn it
but can't. (you would know that from how hard it was to turn manually).

it wasnt hard at all which makes me think the valve/spindle is ok and
not stuck.


so if i left the spindle in the position where the CH started to work,
does that mean my HW will now NOT work?
i did not see or work out what/where this "mid-position" is though on
the brass bit - is it inside the motor part?

If it is a mid position valve then it would be as the name suggests -
about half way through the rotation between one extreme and the other.
In the mid position you will get the hot water flow from the boiler
divided between the cylinder and the rads. Did you count the number of
wires connected up to the valve electronics?


Not yet - I was going to leave that till when I know for sure that it
isn't the wiring - can I say that for sure now?

I do think it has 5 wires in as the label on the motor part has a
wiring diagram and it shows 5 wires.

How can I check whether it is the motor in the motorised valve for
sure? I was expecting the motor part to at least make some
sound/vibration when I

1) Have the room stat set to highest
and
2) Have the setting on the boiler programmer for CH only

but when I do that, the motor part doesnt move/make sounds at all - i
would have thought it will try and rotate the spindle?

thanks

kiich wrote:

John - thanks for the re-assurance about asking Questions, it is a good
to know you dont mind helping complete DIY novice like myself

Na, we can put up with Dr. Drivel here (don't ask!) - so novice
questions are no problem.

So I was *assuming* when I rotate the room stat to the highest it can
go i.e. 25 degrees plus, that will start the boiler up - however it
didnt and nothing is happening to the boiler.

It ought to (allowing for the possibility of the current room
temperature being so high as already be warmer than the maximum setting
on the stat).

If you here a click however then that suggests that it is switching.

or possibly the valve is very stiff and the motor is trying to turn it
but can't. (you would know that from how hard it was to turn manually).


it wasnt hard at all which makes me think the valve/spindle is ok and
not stuck.

OK, so we are talking stat wiring or motor then...

I do think it has 5 wires in as the label on the motor part has a
wiring diagram and it shows 5 wires.

Sounds like it is a mid position valve then...

How can I check whether it is the motor in the motorised valve for
sure? I was expecting the motor part to at least make some
sound/vibration when I

1) Have the room stat set to highest
and
2) Have the setting on the boiler programmer for CH only

It will only make a noise when it moves from one position to another.

but when I do that, the motor part doesnt move/make sounds at all - i
would have thought it will try and rotate the spindle?

It should. But you still need to work out if the problem is the lack of
direction to do so (i.e. from the stat) or the lack of ability to carry
out the request (i.e. dead motor).

Here is where you need a multimeter on the stat. Look to see if it has a
wiring diagram. It will have a live wire in, a switched live out, and
might also have a neutral. If it has a neutral that is easy. Set your
meter to a range where it can do 240V AC, put the black probe on the
neutral, and the red on the live in. You should see 240V permanently.
Now put the red on the switched live. Depending on the position of the
stat you should see either 0V or 240V. Each time you go over the click
position you should see it change. If not, you need a new stat.

If there is no neutral, disconnect the stat completely (noting the
positions of the wires) and measure between the in an out terminals with
the meter set to a resistance range. As you go over the click position
you should see a transition from high to low (i.e almost zero)
resistance. Again if not, new stat time. If working re-attach the stat.

If that looks ok, follow the wires back to the time switch/boiler and
repeat the test there. You should see the same behaviour. If not then
suspect a wiring fault between stat and time switch.

Next look at the wires going out to the valve. (the wiring diagram on
the valve body (if there is one) will tell you which wire is which. See
if you can see a sensible behaviour there - i.e. a demand going out to
valve to move it to the CH position, If not suspect the timer/programmer.

You would also expect to see a demand out to the boiler and pump to go
with the one to the valve. The fact that you said the boiler went off in
on of your other postings would suggest that if the fault is to do with
the stat you ought to have found it by now. However I will describe the
rest of the procedure for completeness.

If ok repeat the test at the valve end. If the behaviour is not the same
then you have a wiring fault between boiler and valve. If not then
replace the valve motor.


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

"kiich" wrote in message
oups.com...
John - thanks for the re-assurance about asking Questions, it is a good
to know you dont mind helping complete DIY novice like myself

This Rumm fell is an amateur, so don't take anything they say seriously.

In message .net,
Doctor Evil writes

"kiich" wrote in message
roups.com...
John - thanks for the re-assurance about asking Questions, it is a good
to know you dont mind helping complete DIY novice like myself

This Rumm fell is an amateur, so don't take anything they say seriously.

What caused the double vision?

Did someone thump you ?

--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message .net,
Doctor Evil writes

"kiich" wrote in message
roups.com...
John - thanks for the re-assurance about asking Questions, it is a good
to know you dont mind helping complete DIY novice like myself

This Rumm fell is an amateur, so don't take anything they say seriously.

What caused the double vision?

Did someone thump you ?

Maxie, lots of question.

In message ws.net,
Doctor Evil writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message .net,
Doctor Evil writes

"kiich" wrote in message
roups.com...
John - thanks for the re-assurance about asking Questions, it is a good
to know you dont mind helping complete DIY novice like myself

This Rumm fell is an amateur, so don't take anything they say seriously.

What caused the double vision?

Did someone thump you ?

Maxie, lots of question.

Obviously overloaded your circuits


--
geoff

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message ws.net,
Doctor Evil writes

"raden" wrote in message
...
In message .net,
Doctor Evil writes

"kiich" wrote in message
roups.com...
John - thanks for the re-assurance about asking Questions, it is a
good
to know you dont mind helping complete DIY novice like myself

This Rumm fell is an amateur, so don't take anything they say
seriously.

What caused the double vision?

Did someone thump you ?

Maxie, lots of question.

Obviously overloaded your circuits

Maxie, what have you been drinking tonight? Larger? Scotch? Hooch?

Thanks John.

I will print this out and check at home - marvellous stuff!
will post back with the result (and most likely more questions ;-))
soon!