Hi All

The day job looks like it may be going to disappear fairly soon, which has
got me thinking about the future.

Being 50+ I'd guess the job market isn't going to welcome me with open arms.

Looking at what I'm good at and concentrating on my strengths lead me to
think of starting up as a handyman/property maintenance. I have the
knowledge, experience & equipment.

Quick Google seems to indicate that people are charging reasonable hourly
rates.

Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

Dave

In message , David Lang
writes
Hi All

The day job looks like it may be going to disappear fairly soon, which has
got me thinking about the future.

Being 50+ I'd guess the job market isn't going to welcome me with open arms.

Looking at what I'm good at and concentrating on my strengths lead me to
think of starting up as a handyman/property maintenance. I have the
knowledge, experience & equipment.

Quick Google seems to indicate that people are charging reasonable hourly
rates.

Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

I think that there's much more to it than saying "Hello, I'm a handyman"

You have to think about advertising, holidays, running a business etc

others will post, but you have to think about what you expect from such
a business and how to charge accordingly

There are all the regulations with which you must comply and insurance
you have to take out

I'm not trying to put you off, but, there's more to it than just doing
the work

--
geoff

Hi Geoff
I think that there's much more to it than saying "Hello, I'm a handyman"

You have to think about advertising, holidays, running a business etc

I do know what you mean, not all beer & skittles.

others will post, but you have to think about what you expect from such a
business and how to charge accordingly

Paying the bills would be good!

I'm not trying to put you off, but, there's more to it than just doing the
work

I appreciate that Geoff, better than the dole though!

Dave

"David Lang" wrote in message
. uk...
Hi All

The day job looks like it may be going to disappear fairly soon, which has
got me thinking about the future.

Being 50+ I'd guess the job market isn't going to welcome me with open
arms.

Looking at what I'm good at and concentrating on my strengths lead me to
think of starting up as a handyman/property maintenance. I have the
knowledge, experience & equipment.

Quick Google seems to indicate that people are charging reasonable hourly
rates.

Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

Dave


One of my relatives set up a property maintenance company, initially he just
decorated places that people let out, but it grew and grew, he now employs
several other people. All in the space of a few years.
Start small with the equipment you have, don't get bank loans 'to start you
off' Preferably have a guaranteed income from a part time job while you
find your feet. Don't get conned into putting up your money to repair some
one else's property, they will shaft you. Keep records of everything, take
pictures of your work. Decide on an hourly rate and don't deviate down.
Don't accept just any job, if it smells wrong leave it, there are loads more
and you have lost nothing by turning down a job. I work for myself and have
developed my own rules as to who I will work for, decide your own and stick
to it, the one time you think, oh just this one will be ok, things will go
pear shaped. The richest people I have ever met are similar in that they
never do something unless they can see the profit in it, so no favours for
friends.

mrcheerful

mrcheerful . wrote:

"David Lang" wrote in message
. uk...

Hi All

The day job looks like it may be going to disappear fairly soon, which has
got me thinking about the future.

Being 50+ I'd guess the job market isn't going to welcome me with open
arms.

Looking at what I'm good at and concentrating on my strengths lead me to
think of starting up as a handyman/property maintenance. I have the
knowledge, experience & equipment.

Quick Google seems to indicate that people are charging reasonable hourly
rates.

Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

Dave


Initially don't spend money on advertising, the son of a friend set up
just over 2 years ago and has to turn jobs down, all has spread from
word of mouth. If you give value for money then I honestly don't think
jobs are hard to come by.

--
All replies to this email address are deleted on receipt.

Common sense, not common market.

"David Lang" wrote in message
. uk...

Hi All

The day job looks like it may be going to disappear fairly soon, which has
got me thinking about the future.

Being 50+ I'd guess the job market isn't going to welcome me with open
arms.

Looking at what I'm good at and concentrating on my strengths lead me to
think of starting up as a handyman/property maintenance. I have the
knowledge, experience & equipment.

Quick Google seems to indicate that people are charging reasonable hourly
rates.

Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

Dave


Initially don't spend money on advertising, the son of a friend set up
just over 2 years ago and has to turn jobs down, all has spread from
word of mouth. If you give value for money then I honestly don't think
jobs are hard to come by.

--
All replies to this email address are deleted on receipt.

Common sense, not common market.

In article , David Lang
writes
Hi All

The day job looks like it may be going to disappear fairly soon, which has
got me thinking about the future.

Being 50+ I'd guess the job market isn't going to welcome me with open arms.

Looking at what I'm good at and concentrating on my strengths lead me to
think of starting up as a handyman/property maintenance. I have the
knowledge, experience & equipment.

Quick Google seems to indicate that people are charging reasonable hourly
rates.

Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

Dave



A friend of mine used to work for a government department and he has
been longing for them to retire him early. Finally at the beginning of
this year he was retired at 57 Y/O. Since that time he has started his
gardening and maintenance "firm" i.e. himself and the dog

He tells me he has never worked harder in his life , been happier, and
has lost THREE stone in weight which all the dieting and excersize
machines failed to remove. He looks about 10 years younger, has more
work than he can handle and reckons he's happier then he's ever been!.

Best of luck in your endeavour!!....
--
Tony Sayer

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:51:13 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:



A friend of mine used to work for a government department and he has
been longing for them to retire him early. Finally at the beginning of
this year he was retired at 57 Y/O. Since that time he has started his
gardening and maintenance "firm" i.e. himself and the dog

He tells me he has never worked harder in his life , been happier, and
has lost THREE stone in weight which all the dieting and excersize
machines failed to remove. He looks about 10 years younger, has more
work than he can handle and reckons he's happier then he's ever been!.

Starting from a government department, he could have hardly failed to
be happier though could he? :-)





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 23:19:47 GMT, "David Lang"
wrote:

Hi All

The day job looks like it may be going to disappear fairly soon, which has
got me thinking about the future.

Being 50+ I'd guess the job market isn't going to welcome me with open arms.

Looking at what I'm good at and concentrating on my strengths lead me to
think of starting up as a handyman/property maintenance. I have the
knowledge, experience & equipment.

Quick Google seems to indicate that people are charging reasonable hourly
rates.

Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

Dave



You might want to ping Andrew McKay, Dave.

He posts here periodically, and I've met him at a couple of UK.D-I-Y
meets locally here in the Thames Valley.

Andrew started a similar type of idea in the local area, but has now
stopped and moved on to other things.

I can remember him saying that a couple of the issues that he had was
the trade off between length of jobs and travel time in between, and
quite a lot of customers having very low expectations of what they
would pay.

However, it may be that it's a different story depending on area of
the country, local situation and willingness of people to pay a
reasonable price for work done - and of course your expectation of
income.

His web site "handymac" I think has gone, but I think you should be
able to contact him through www.kazmax.co.uk

It's worth emailing him, because I'm sure he'll be able to tell you
what he found worked and didn't and some of the snares and pitfalls
for the unwary.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

"David Lang" wrote in
. uk:

Hi All

The day job looks like it may be going to disappear fairly soon, which
has got me thinking about the future.

Being 50+ I'd guess the job market isn't going to welcome me with open
arms.

Looking at what I'm good at and concentrating on my strengths lead me
to think of starting up as a handyman/property maintenance. I have
the knowledge, experience & equipment.

It's interesting, but I'm not alone round here, reasonably prosperous,
but not wealthy (maybe the problem is all the wealthy folks hereabouts),
who would kill (well, maim) to find a skilled reliable person like you.

I'm sort of skilled, but not multiskilled, I like to plumb and electric,
but I certainly need someone to clear up the wreckage, and tosh it over!

I also am allergic to real ie. hard, work!

I can't plaster, paint or paper or do wet trades worth a damn. I'd like
my really manky paving repointed just to keep the weeds down, not
replaced for megabucks.

I've been screwed before and marched to the bank to withdraw cash by
gypsies, who I was too slow to spot; but after you've hired them you do
what you're told, and are glad to get out and put it down to experience.
You never forget they now know where you live!

I should think with just an ounce of common you'd do very well; first
thing is to overcome suspicion in your prospective clients, who may well
have experience like mine - 0nce you've got a bit of provenance I think
you'd be turning away work.

You don't live near me, do you? ;-)

mike

"David Lang" wrote in message
. uk...
Hi All

The day job looks like it may be going to disappear fairly soon, which has
got me thinking about the future.

Being 50+ I'd guess the job market isn't going to welcome me with open
arms.

Age discrimination in the workplace will become illegal later this year.
That may mean that companies start to fall over themselves to prove that
they are not discriminating, by employing more older people, even though
that, in itself, will be discriminatory against the younger ones. However, I
wouldn't rely on it.

Looking at what I'm good at and concentrating on my strengths lead me to
think of starting up as a handyman/property maintenance. I have the
knowledge, experience & equipment.

Quick Google seems to indicate that people are charging reasonable hourly
rates.

Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

A couple of sites that you may find useful.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/selfemployed/
http://www.dti.gov.uk/for_business_small_business.html

Business Link, mentioned in the latter, is probably quite useful for a small
business.

My local authority also holds meetings and events for local businesses. It
would probably be worth while finding out whether yours does. They can be
valuable places to meet other businesses working in your area.

You will need public liability insurance and it will impress customers if
you have insurance to cover your work, even if you go out of business.

Personally, I would ignore the domestic market and look at selling yourself
as an on-call maintainer for local businesses. Many are too small to have
their own maintenance staff and it is surprisingly difficult to find
reliable workmen to do minor repair / maintenance jobs. If you are prepared
to be called out at any time, you can charge really good rates for out of
hours calls. There are many businesses that run 24 hours a day and they will
be all too happy to pay well over the odds to get something fixed in the
middle of the night.

Whatever you do, make sure that you look professional. First impressions are
important and your flyers must look good. That probably means professionally
printed multi-colour, but you can do almost as well if you have a colour
laser printer and use 160gm paper. Also, have lots of business cards with
you at all times. Particularly on a business estate, you are likely to have
passers-by ask you for one. Those can be done at home on a laser printer,
using sheets of pre-cut cards.

A sign written van also looks good. A self-employer vehicle repairer I know
uses magnetic sheet signs, but it only cost me £60 to have my company van (a
Renault Master LWB high roof) professionally sign written a couple of years
ago. These days, it is done by cutting out plastic sheet on computer
controlled equipment, then applying that with a heat gun. Ideally, get a van
with a solid bulkhead behind the cab and no windows in the back doors.
Otherwise, add security grilles in these places. Tool theft is a serious
concern and, in any case, you should never leave valuable tools in your van
overnight. BTW a solid bulkhead behind the cab also makes it easier to keep
the cab warm in winter.

Finally, forget about taking holidays. You don't earn when you are on
holiday, so they are doubly expensive.

Colin Bignell

"David Lang" wrote in message
. uk...
Hi All

The day job looks like it may be going to disappear fairly soon, which has
got me thinking about the future.

Being 50+ I'd guess the job market isn't going to welcome me with open
arms.

Looking at what I'm good at and concentrating on my strengths lead me to
think of starting up as a handyman/property maintenance. I have the
knowledge, experience & equipment.

Quick Google seems to indicate that people are charging reasonable hourly
rates.

Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

Dave

Get yourself a bloody accountant that works for you not themselves. Get
registered with the local council, the local police and fire services and,
if your really want to make a go of it, get registered with companies house.

Look forward to much bloody, sweat and tears for the first two to three
years, but after that you should be able to settle down in to a good routine
for yourself. Save every penny you can for the lean times, and always try
to give yourself a full day a week to do all your paperwork and things.

Never ever try to do a job in one day if materials are needed from a local
merchants. Always, in cases like this, tell the customer you'll be back
tomorrow with everything needed for the job, and always take slightly more
things than "THINK" you'll need. Look at the work required fully, and don't
assume that the job is like every other one of its kind that you've done in
passed. They never usually are "all" the same.

I've been self employed now for 20 odd years, and all I can really say to
you is "Good Luck my man".

nightjar nightjar@ wrote:
Personally, I would ignore the domestic market and look at selling yourself
as an on-call maintainer for local businesses.

Letting agencies can also be a good source of work.

Finally, forget about taking holidays. You don't earn when you are on
holiday, so they are doubly expensive.

Sizeable expat communities in parts of France, Italy, and (especially)
Spain. Shouldn't be too difficult to wangle a working holiday.

Owain

David Lang wrote:
Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

Not running a similar business, but: your most important tool is your
Henry. If you don't henry up properly after finishing a job you won't
get repeat business. And it costs 6x as much to find a new customer as
it does to keep a customer.

Owain

Owain wrote:
David Lang wrote:

Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?


Don't work for peanuts. These days people judge everything by how much
it costs. If you don't charge much, you can't be much good.
Also beware of being too much of a treasure. People won't recommend you
in case you get too busy to do their work.

"Owain" wrote in message
...
David Lang wrote:
Anyone running a similar business who has any advice?

Not running a similar business, but: your most important tool is your
Henry. If you don't henry up properly after finishing a job you won't
get repeat business. And it costs 6x as much to find a new customer as
it does to keep a customer.

Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day. Have good quality
"attractive" to look at tools; chrome and the likes, as customers like shiny
tools. Have smart modern tool boxes and Workmates, etc, that are not filled
with rubbish. Always use "clean" dust sheets. Be very clean as in
preparation, when working and afterwards.

80% of the job will not be on-hands craft skills. It will be driving,
paperwork, telephone, cleaning, preparing, buying materials, giving
estimates, etc. When you master the 80%, the 20% comes in easy. The
customer is more concerned at how clean you are, how clean you work, how
clean you leave the place, your appearance and attitude. Always be polite,
return calls, keep them informed before and as the job progresses.

The customer will pay extra if you master the 80%.

In message , David Lang
writes
Hi Geoff
I think that there's much more to it than saying "Hello, I'm a handyman"

You have to think about advertising, holidays, running a business etc

I do know what you mean, not all beer & skittles.

others will post, but you have to think about what you expect from such a
business and how to charge accordingly

Paying the bills would be good!

I'm not trying to put you off, but, there's more to it than just doing the
work

I appreciate that Geoff, better than the dole though!

True, but to have some of the pitfalls in mind before you start gives
you something to build on

--
geoff

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
enews.net...
....
Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day.

Not a bad idea, at least in that they should look clean. Many workwear
suppliers will embroider your business name on your overalls for a modest
charge, which also looks professional.

Have good quality
"attractive" to look at tools; chrome and the likes, as customers like
shiny
tools. ..

That would make me think he was new at the job, with a new set of tools.
Well-used, but well-maintained, tools are the mark of the craftsman.

Colin Bignell

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
enews.net...
...
Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day.

Not a bad idea, at least in that they should look clean. Many workwear
suppliers will embroider your business name on your overalls for a modest
charge, which also looks professional.

Or you could do it yourself :-)

Mary

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
enews.net...
...
Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day.

Not a bad idea, at least in that they should look clean. Many workwear
suppliers will embroider your business name on your overalls for a modest
charge, which also looks professional.

Have good quality
"attractive" to look at tools; chrome
and the likes, as customers like
shiny tools. ..

That would make me think he was new
at the job, with a new set of tools.

But you are not the customer. They like shiny professional looking tools.

Well-used, but well-maintained, tools
are the mark of the craftsman.

Turn up in old scruffy clothes an tool bag full of crap and half rusty cheap
iron tools and instantly you are branded a cowboy. The Brits have not
grasped this yet. The Americans figured this out decades ago. In the
recent TV prog, Posh Plumbers, the owner had the right idea. The men, and
women, had to look smart at all times, otherwise you were reprimanded, and
the vans clean, looking like new. The van with your name on is also an
advertising board, so must be clean at all times.

One heating fitter I came across was brilliant. He did exactly what I
described, and had the overalls with the RAF type zips all over them. On
fitting a heating system, he would have a special trolley that rolled out of
his van with tool boxes attached. He would wheel this into a room with a
workmate and make this room of the house his base for the week. Dust sheets
were laid everywhere. He had special tools with angle chucks for drilling
walls at skirting level. He made minimum mess. People would wait 9 months
just to get him.

I said to him you never served your time in the UK. He said he did, but went
to the USA/Canada on passing out and took it up from there. He just did it
the way they did. I described the Brits as third world in their approach,
and he totally agreed.

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 15:53:52 +0100, "nightjar" nightjar@insert my
surname here.uk.com wrote:


"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
eenews.net...
...
Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day.

Not a bad idea, at least in that they should look clean. Many workwear
suppliers will embroider your business name on your overalls for a modest
charge, which also looks professional.

Have good quality
"attractive" to look at tools; chrome and the likes, as customers like
shiny
tools. ..

That would make me think he was new at the job, with a new set of tools.
Well-used, but well-maintained, tools are the mark of the craftsman.

Colin Bignell


I think that that's true if you are hiring a craftsman. For example,
several years ago, I hired a carpenter to do some specific joinery in
oak in the house, including stairs, doors, skirtings etc. This was
before I was equipped with the tools/machinery that I could do it
myself.

This guy was coming up to retirement age and his tools were certainly
in the well used and maintained category and he was able to cut boards
to length and angle by eye. Quite incredible.

He was reasonably neat and clean but not sparkling. He cleaned up
reasonably well, but not spotlessly each day. It was fairly major
work, so a certain amount of mess while work is proceeding is
reasonable.

So in the context of hiring a craftsman, I would tend to agree with
you. I don't thing that he did this for any marketing type of reason
- it was just him, he was his own person if you like.

However, for the handyman, my sense is more of someone who does
relatively short jobs that the householder can't or doesn't want to do
- perhaps the busy professional person etc. is the typical person.
I think that in this case, appearance is quite important as is
neatness and cleanliness. This type of customer wants the tradesman
to arrive on time, do the job as quickly and cleanly as possible and
leave no mess (ideally not make any in the first place).

I suspect that this type of customer is going to be willing to pay a
price premium for this kind of service. However, it is going to be
the professional with disposable income and rich old lady market.




--

..andy

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The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
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On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:37:59 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
enews.net...
...
Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day.

Not a bad idea, at least in that they should look clean. Many workwear
suppliers will embroider your business name on your overalls for a modest
charge, which also looks professional.

Have good quality
"attractive" to look at tools; chrome
and the likes, as customers like
shiny tools. ..

That would make me think he was new
at the job, with a new set of tools.

But you are not the customer. They like shiny professional looking tools.

Better throw the PPPoo stuff in the skip, then.


Well-used, but well-maintained, tools
are the mark of the craftsman.

Turn up in old scruffy clothes an tool bag full of crap and half rusty cheap
iron tools and instantly you are branded a cowboy. The Brits have not
grasped this yet. The Americans figured this out decades ago. In the
recent TV prog, Posh Plumbers, the owner had the right idea. The men, and
women, had to look smart at all times, otherwise you were reprimanded, and
the vans clean, looking like new. The van with your name on is also an
advertising board, so must be clean at all times.

One heating fitter I came across was brilliant. He did exactly what I
described, and had the overalls with the RAF type zips all over them. On
fitting a heating system, he would have a special trolley that rolled out of
his van with tool boxes attached. He would wheel this into a room with a
workmate and make this room of the house his base for the week. Dust sheets
were laid everywhere. He had special tools with angle chucks for drilling
walls at skirting level. He made minimum mess. People would wait 9 months
just to get him.

I said to him you never served your time in the UK. He said he did, but went
to the USA/Canada on passing out and took it up from there. He just did it
the way they did. I described the Brits as third world in their approach,
and he totally agreed.


With qualification, I actually agree with you. There is a part of
the market for this type of service that I suspect would pay a price
premium and would be impressed by the kind of cleanliness, smartness
and image that you describe.

However, the old lady and corner shop market which is more minded to
expect a lot for a little, either deliberately or because they don't
know what things cost.

Doing a good job is important, but so is leaving a good lasting
impression in the customer's mind. Cleanliness and neatness as
described is part of that, I think.

I'm sure that we've all seen Eddie Stobart trucks in our travels.
This firm gets 11/10 for marketing in my book. Road transport hardly
has a fancy image, but they've managed to achieve great fame in a
variety of ways - fan clubs the lot. One of the original ideas was
to have the drivers wearing a shirt and tie and shaving. It raised
the firm's image and profile. It's now changed somewhat, and he's
now able to sell the branded clothing as well.

It seems to me that the handyman market would be a great franchise
opportunity for somebody to invent.



--

..andy

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The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

Andy Hall wrote:
On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:37:59 +0100, "Doctor Evil" wrote:

With qualification, I actually agree with you.

scary, isnt it? I always think I must have missed something really
obvious.

NT

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
news.net...

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
enews.net...
...
Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day.

Not a bad idea, at least in that they should look clean. Many workwear
suppliers will embroider your business name on your overalls for a modest
charge, which also looks professional.

Have good quality
"attractive" to look at tools; chrome
and the likes, as customers like
shiny tools. ..

That would make me think he was new
at the job, with a new set of tools.

But you are not the customer. They like shiny professional looking tools.

I am exactly the customer I suggested he try for: the owner of a small
business who needs someone to do property maintenance work. The sort of
customer who knows that shiny tools haven't seen much use.

Well-used, but well-maintained, tools
are the mark of the craftsman.

Turn up in old scruffy clothes an tool bag full of crap and half rusty
cheap
iron tools and instantly you are branded a cowboy.

That is the other end of the spectrum. I wouldn't trust that workman either.
I want someone with well-used, but well-looked after tools.

.. The Americans figured this out decades ago. In the
recent TV prog, Posh Plumbers, the owner had the right idea. The men, and
women, had to look smart at all times, otherwise you were reprimanded, and
the vans clean, looking like new. The van with your name on is also an
advertising board, so must be clean at all times.

How much of that makes their work any better? All it does is to enable the
company to sell itself better, which is not the same as providing a good
service.

Colin Bignell

"Andy Hall" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:37:59 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:


"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
enews.net...
...
Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day.

Not a bad idea, at least in that they should look clean. Many workwear
suppliers will embroider your business name on your overalls for a
modest
charge, which also looks professional.

Have good quality
"attractive" to look at tools; chrome
and the likes, as customers like
shiny tools. ..

That would make me think he was new
at the job, with a new set of tools.

But you are not the customer. They like shiny professional looking
tools.

Better throw the PPPoo stuff in the skip, then.

They are actually nice and shiny.

Well-used, but well-maintained, tools
are the mark of the craftsman.

Turn up in old scruffy clothes an tool bag full of crap and half rusty
cheap
iron tools and instantly you are branded a cowboy. The Brits have not
grasped this yet. The Americans figured this out decades ago. In the
recent TV prog, Posh Plumbers, the owner had the right idea. The men,
and
women, had to look smart at all times, otherwise you were reprimanded,
and
the vans clean, looking like new. The van with your name on is also an
advertising board, so must be clean at all times.

One heating fitter I came across was brilliant. He did exactly what I
described, and had the overalls with the RAF type zips all over them. On
fitting a heating system, he would have a special trolley that rolled out
of
his van with tool boxes attached. He would wheel this into a room with a
workmate and make this room of the house his base for the week. Dust
sheets
were laid everywhere. He had special tools with angle chucks for
drilling
walls at skirting level. He made minimum mess. People would wait 9
months
just to get him.

I said to him you never served your time in the UK. He said he did, but
went
to the USA/Canada on passing out and took it up from there. He just did
it
the way they did. I described the Brits as third world in their
approach,
and he totally agreed.

With qualification, I actually agree with you.
There is a part of the market for this type
of service that I suspect would pay a price
premium and would be impressed by the
kind of cleanliness, smartness
and image that you describe.

You shouldn't have to pay a price. People paid the price because the
alternative was hassle, mess and dirt.

British tradesmen have this attitude to have someone pass the tools. The
Yanks, have tool belts and the likes all for one man working. They can do
it all by themselves, because they are brought up that way and have the
equipment to do it that way.

However, the old lady and corner shop market which is more minded to
expect a lot for a little, either deliberately or because they don't
know what things cost.

Doing a good job is important, but so is leaving a good lasting
impression in the customer's mind. Cleanliness and neatness as
described is part of that, I think.

I'm sure that we've all seen Eddie Stobart trucks in our travels.
This firm gets 11/10 for marketing in my book. Road transport hardly
has a fancy image, but they've managed to achieve great fame in a
variety of ways - fan clubs the lot. One of the original ideas was
to have the drivers wearing a shirt and tie and shaving. It raised
the firm's image and profile. It's now changed somewhat, and he's
now able to sell the branded clothing as well.

It seems to me that the handyman market would be a great franchise
opportunity for somebody to invent.

Andy Hall wrote:

SNIP
I'm sure that we've all seen Eddie Stobart trucks in our travels.
This firm gets 11/10 for marketing in my book. Road transport hardly
has a fancy image, but they've managed to achieve great fame in a
variety of ways - fan clubs the lot. One of the original ideas was
to have the drivers wearing a shirt and tie and shaving. It raised
the firm's image and profile. It's now changed somewhat, and he's
now able to sell the branded clothing as well.

It seems to me that the handyman market would be a great franchise
opportunity for somebody to invent.

Off topic here, but I have noticed that Eddie Stobbart no longer follows
those rules, since I suspect that the man himself retired. Sad, they have
even changed their livery, I wonder how they will do now.



--
All replies to this email address are deleted on receipt.

Common sense, not common market.

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:

SNIP
I'm sure that we've all seen Eddie Stobart trucks in our travels.
This firm gets 11/10 for marketing in my book. Road transport hardly
has a fancy image, but they've managed to achieve great fame in a
variety of ways - fan clubs the lot. One of the original ideas was
to have the drivers wearing a shirt and tie and shaving. It raised
the firm's image and profile. It's now changed somewhat, and he's
now able to sell the branded clothing as well.

It seems to me that the handyman market would be a great franchise
opportunity for somebody to invent.

Off topic here, but I have noticed that Eddie Stobbart no longer follows
those rules, since I suspect that the man himself retired. Sad, they have
even changed their livery, I wonder how they will do now.

The Stobbart regime is still in place. They still to be smart in
appearance, and have their vehicles clean and clear at all times. Their
drivers can actually be fined for not keeping up the appearance of the
company. A great incentive if you ask me. :-)

Andy Hall wrote:
I'm sure that we've all seen Eddie Stobart trucks ... he's
now able to sell the branded clothing as well.
It seems to me that the handyman market would be a great
franchise opportunity for somebody to invent.

I think it's already been sewn up between Dewalt fleeces, JCB boots and
Bob The Builder baseball caps.

Owain

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
news.net...

"nightjar .uk.com" nightjar@insert my surname here wrote in message
...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
enews.net...
...
Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day.

Not a bad idea, at least in that they should look clean. Many workwear
suppliers will embroider your business name on your overalls for a
modest
charge, which also looks professional.

Have good quality
"attractive" to look at tools; chrome
and the likes, as customers like
shiny tools. ..

That would make me think he was new
at the job, with a new set of tools.

But you are not the customer. They like shiny professional looking
tools.

I am exactly the customer I suggested he try for: the owner of a small
business who needs someone to do property maintenance work. The sort of
customer who knows that shiny tools haven't seen much use.

Well-used, but well-maintained, tools
are the mark of the craftsman.

Turn up in old scruffy clothes an tool bag full of crap and half rusty
cheap
iron tools and instantly you are branded a cowboy.

That is the other end of the spectrum. I wouldn't trust that workman
either.
I want someone with well-used, but well-looked after tools.

.. The Americans figured this out decades ago. In the
recent TV prog, Posh Plumbers, the owner had the right idea. The men,
and
women, had to look smart at all times, otherwise you were reprimanded,
and
the vans clean, looking like new. The van with your name on is also an
advertising board, so must be clean at all times.

How much of that makes their work any better?

It all adds to the image. If the van looks professional and clean you are
more likely to note the telephone number on the side or back. If someone
turns up in 10 year old battered Transit, confidence lowers. You would not
note the number on a battered filthy Transit.

All it does is to enable the
company to sell itself better,
which is not the same as providing a good
service.

If you get the 80% right the 20% falls into place.

"BigWallop" wrote in message
. uk...

"Broadback" wrote in message
...
Andy Hall wrote:

SNIP
I'm sure that we've all seen Eddie Stobart trucks in our travels.
This firm gets 11/10 for marketing in my book. Road transport hardly
has a fancy image, but they've managed to achieve great fame in a
variety of ways - fan clubs the lot. One of the original ideas was
to have the drivers wearing a shirt and tie and shaving. It raised
the firm's image and profile. It's now changed somewhat, and he's
now able to sell the branded clothing as well.

It seems to me that the handyman market would be a great franchise
opportunity for somebody to invent.

Off topic here, but I have noticed that Eddie Stobbart no longer follows
those rules, since I suspect that the man himself retired. Sad, they
have
even changed their livery, I wonder how they will do now.

The Stobbart regime is still in place. They still to be smart in
appearance, and have their vehicles clean and clear at all times. Their
drivers can actually be fined for not keeping up the appearance of the
company. A great incentive if you ask me. :-)

Suttons of St. Helen's, with the half union jack on the front of the cab,
were the largest truckers before Stobbart. They had more John Brown
Gearboxes than John Brown and JB would direct people to them for a gearbox.
After an all night drive a driver had to clean out the cab.

In message .net,
Doctor Evil writes

That would make me think he was new
at the job, with a new set of tools.

But you are not the customer. They like shiny professional looking tools.

Well-used, but well-maintained, tools
are the mark of the craftsman.

Turn up in old scruffy clothes an tool bag full of crap and half rusty cheap
iron tools and instantly you are branded a cowboy. The Brits have not
grasped this yet. The Americans figured this out decades ago. In the
recent TV prog, Posh Plumbers, the owner had the right idea. The men, and
women, had to look smart at all times, otherwise you were reprimanded, and
the vans clean, looking like new. The van with your name on is also an
advertising board, so must be clean at all times.

Is this what the people who come and rectify your balls ups look like?

I have shiny toys, look - I must be good

--
geoff

On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 19:20:57 +0100, "Doctor Evil"
wrote:



But you are not the customer. They like shiny professional looking
tools.

Better throw the PPPoo stuff in the skip, then.

They are actually nice and shiny.

In this case, beauty is most definitely skin deep.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The information contained in this post is copyright the
poster, and specifically may not be published in, or used by
http://www.diybanter.com

In article ,

My local authority also holds meetings and events for local businesses. It
would probably be worth while finding out whether yours does. They can be
valuable places to meet other businesses working in your area.

Also your local Chamber of Trade may do sessions for people
thinking of going self-employed by people who have done so.

A sign written van also looks good. A self-employer vehicle repairer I know
uses magnetic sheet signs,

A carpet fitter I have used has several magnetic sheet signs; one
for each of the carpet shops he contracts for. He puts on the one
for the right shop depending which he is doing a job for.

but it only cost me £60 to have my company van (a
Renault Master LWB high roof) professionally sign written a couple of years
ago. These days, it is done by cutting out plastic sheet on computer
controlled equipment, then applying that with a heat gun. Ideally, get a van
with a solid bulkhead behind the cab and no windows in the back doors.
Otherwise, add security grilles in these places. Tool theft is a serious
concern and, in any case, you should never leave valuable tools in your van
overnight. BTW a solid bulkhead behind the cab also makes it easier to keep
the cab warm in winter.

It also stops all the stuff in the back hitting you in the back of
the head or going through the windscreen if you do an emergency stop.

--
Andrew Gabriel

"Andrew Gabriel" wrote in message
.. .

A carpet fitter I have used has several magnetic sheet signs; one
for each of the carpet shops he contracts for. He puts on the one
for the right shop depending which he is doing a job for.

A son in law did something similar - until they started being stolen :-(

Mary

In article s.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day. Have good quality
"attractive" to look at tools;

Strange - you're continually recommending cheap power tools for pro use.

chrome and the likes, as customers like shiny tools. Have smart modern
tool boxes and Workmates, etc, that are not filled with rubbish.

That, to me, would shout out new boy on the job.

Always use "clean" dust sheets. Be very clean as in
preparation, when working and afterwards.

As every true pro would.

--
*The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article .net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
I said to him you never served your time in the UK. He said he did, but
went to the USA/Canada on passing out and took it up from there. He
just did it the way they did. I described the Brits as third world in
their approach, and he totally agreed.

Was this after you'd told him about your plastic pipe and hacksaw incident?

--
*Remember, no-one is listening until you fart.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article .net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
How much of that makes their work any better?

It all adds to the image. If the van looks professional and clean you
are more likely to note the telephone number on the side or back. If
someone turns up in 10 year old battered Transit, confidence lowers.
You would not note the number on a battered filthy Transit.

That's fine if the customer is willing to pay for a brand new builder's
truck. As he's the one who pays in the end.

Personally, I'd query a jobbing builder etc who has a new vehicle as it
makes just no commercial sense.

--
*When it rains, why don't sheep shrink? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article s.net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Always have clean pair off smart overalls on each day. Have good
quality
"attractive" to look at tools;

Strange -

It's not strange

snip senile drivel

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
I said to him you never served your time in the UK. He said he did, but
went to the USA/Canada on passing out and took it up from there. He
just did it the way they did. I described the Brits as third world in
their approach, and he totally agreed.

Was

snip kore senile babble

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .net,
Doctor Evil wrote:
How much of that makes their work any better?

It all adds to the image. If the van looks professional and clean you
are more likely to note the telephone number on the side or back. If
someone turns up in 10 year old battered Transit, confidence lowers.
You would not note the number on a battered filthy Transit.

That's fine if the customer
is willing to pay for a brand new builder's
truck. As he's the one who pays in the end.

Personally, I'd query a jobbing builder etc
who has a new vehicle as it
makes just no commercial sense.

It is clear this one has not a clue. Sad but true.