Hi Folks,
HandyMac reporting back for dooty, it's been a while since I
frequented this newsgroup. "Hello" to old friends, "nice to meet you"
to the new folks that I don't know. And if you weren't classed as a
friend then the same parameters as before apply (e.g. "sod off IMM" or
whatever you've transmoggrified into these days ).

Just thought I'd make my presence known. I've got 5000+ usenet
messages waiting in this forum and I ain't got time to review them
all, so take it from me that I'm not to date with latest rumours or
gossip as far as the great god DIY is concerned.

I thought those who know me might like to know that I have now given
up the general handyman bit. After nearly 2 years of trying to make it
work out I've given up. Basic problem is that I can't make anything
like a decent living out of it, if I make £200 a month these days it's
a good month, and I can't exist on that sort of income level. Well I
can, but living in the gutter isn't an option that fits into my radar.

Note: If anyone is looking at hiring someone the infamous John Inman
phrase applies - "I'm free". Well, maybe I ain't gonna work for free,
but I'm available.....you can get to me via the enquiry form on my
regular web site - http://www.kazmax.co.uk. I'm not actually focussed
on any particular type of job, I just want to do something interesting
which I won't get too bored with - stacking shelves at Tescos is
unlikely to appear on my future CV but some sort of admin type job
might be just perfect. I'd really like to get back into some sort of
team operation 'cos I miss the camaradre of working with other people
a lot (apologies for the understatement....).

One thing that has become very clear to me in recent months is that
there are a lot more handymen out there these days, and that's
obviously taken a goodly amount of business away from me. 12 months
ago I was booking work 6+ weeks in advance, yet before I gave up at
the beginning of this month I was pretty much able to book stuff in
the next day. Being able to say "see you tomorrow" generally doesn't
convey the right message to customers 'cos if you ain't seen to be
busy then all sorts of wrong conclusions can be drawn. Much better to
suck your teeth and say "well missus, I can do that job but I'm booked
solid for the next 3 months see....".

I feel that there are a lot more IT people (or should I say "ex-IT"
people) trying their hand at this handyman lark. The local Homebase
and other DIY store car parks usually have half a dozen family cars
with ladders on top and the usual paraphenalia that you expect a
handyman to be carrying around. Maybe it's just a Thames Valley thing,
for sure there have been lots of people finding their way out of work
in this area these last couple of years.

If anyone was dreaming about trying their hand at giving up the day
job to become a general handyman, my advice is - be careful. It has
its benefits (it's nice not having to report to anyone), but the
downsides really catch up big time before you know it. It's the kind
of thing that you really need to be able to support financially
without having to depend on the income, if you need to depend on the
income it generates then I wouldn't recommend it as an option.

Depends on several factors though. If you are into building kitchens
or bathrooms and able to command a couple of grand per job then it
could work out fine. It failed for me because even though I could have
done (and occasionally did do) I never really aspired to doing the
larger jobs which took several days of effort. And there are only so
many mirrors and cupboards you can hang for little old
ladies.....basically I couldn't stitch enough little jobs together to
provide anything like a decent working week.

Do I see this as a failure? No way. I can now grow old without having
to look back and wish I'd tried to do this. For sure the numbers
didn't work out - but I feel much better for having got off my butt to
try something different. And there's a certain amount of satisfaction
that Gordon Brown hasn't been paid the levels of taxes that he has
ripped from me in previous years (everything is declared, I've never
been a tax cheat - I just haven't been able to make enough income to
make the tax take worthwhile for Gordon). If that has helped fsck
Gordons figures these last couple of years I'm a happy bunny.

I guess it must be about time for another beer for those in the Thames
Valley area. Assuming that someone isn't in the process of organising
one perhaps I can start the ball rolling. The last one I went to was
The George at Winnersh in Wokingham, some jolly decent food and
pleasant company, so anyone fancy repeating that venue? Can go
somewhere else if folks prefer.

Date wise, how does Wednesday April 6th grab you folks? Again, just a
line in the sand that can be moved any which way.

Andrew

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:05:59 +0000, Andrew McKay
wrote:
Chin up mate!!

Get ya self to college in September and learn a new skill !

What are you doing at the moment Andrew ?

Have you been in the Forces? (none related but a hunch I have)

Andy

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:05:59 +0000, Andrew McKay
wrote:


I guess it must be about time for another beer for those in the Thames
Valley area. Assuming that someone isn't in the process of organising
one perhaps I can start the ball rolling. The last one I went to was
The George at Winnersh in Wokingham, some jolly decent food and
pleasant company, so anyone fancy repeating that venue? Can go
somewhere else if folks prefer.

Date wise, how does Wednesday April 6th grab you folks? Again, just a
line in the sand that can be moved any which way.

Andrew



Sorry to hear of your outcome...... I know that if it was possible
to make more of a success of it, that you would have done it - as far
as I could tell, you were going about it from the business
perspectives in the right way.

Definitely up for a beer, but...... I will be out of the country all
of that week. Could we go for the week before or after? Ideally
nearer beginning or end of week? Venue was OK I thought, and the
company.....





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andrew McKay wrote:

HandyMac reporting back for dooty, it's been a while since I
frequented this newsgroup. "Hello" to old friends, "nice to meet you"

Nice of you to drop in!

friend then the same parameters as before apply (e.g. "sod off IMM" or
whatever you've transmoggrified into these days ).

10 mins reading s few threads and it ought to be obvious ;-(

up the general handyman bit. After nearly 2 years of trying to make it
work out I've given up. Basic problem is that I can't make anything
like a decent living out of it, if I make £200 a month these days it's

Sorry to hear that!

Time for something a bit more specialised perhaps? Part P must be making
sparks willing/able to do domestic work ever more scarce...

phrase applies - "I'm free". Well, maybe I ain't gonna work for free,
but I'm available.....you can get to me via the enquiry form on my

Will let you know if I hear of anything.

Anyway - respect for giving it a go, I hope the next venture turns out
to be fun and rewarding!


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:22:49 +0000, Andy pandy
wrote:

Get ya self to college in September and learn a new skill !

Depends if the job centre will pay for it...

What are you doing at the moment Andrew ?

Looking for work. Actually I've been looking seriously now for 3
months and can't even get a goddamned interview!

I'm just trying a new approach - the handyman bit is now airbrushed
out of the CV. I've been working for my IT company these last couple
of years (I kept it open) doing IT work. I might have done a bit of
DIY work for other people occasionally as well - none of which is
telling porkies, it's absolutely true.

What really p's me off is that if you take a career break everyone
thinks you must've forgotten everything you ever knew. My answer to
that one is "did you ever learn to ride a bike - when did you last
ride one - do you think you could ride one now?".

Have you been in the Forces? (none related but a hunch I have)

Nope. Had a bad experience with Dad being in the RAF for 28 years.
Hardly ever saw him, and when he did appear the memories aren't great.
Not his fault, his father (Liverpool docker) came home roaring drunk
most nights and beat his family up - I mean giving his wife and kids
broken limbs, and Dad felt the best way to protect me from that
dreadful experience was to stay away most of the time.

So I made an early promise to myself before I left school - I would
never join the armed forces and put my own family thru the trauma of
being away from home while they were growing up.

Andrew

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 02:10:35 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Sorry to hear of your outcome...... I know that if it was possible
to make more of a success of it, that you would have done it - as far
as I could tell, you were going about it from the business
perspectives in the right way.

I think the main error of my ways was that I didn't want to migrate to
doing something more specialised. I enjoyed doing the little jobs for
people - big problem with that is butting enough together to make it
worthwhile, and being able to charge enough to cover the expense.

Definitely up for a beer, but...... I will be out of the country all
of that week. Could we go for the week before or after? Ideally
nearer beginning or end of week? Venue was OK I thought, and the
company.....

How's about Tuesday 12th April, same location?

Andrew

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 05:30:25 +0000, John Rumm
wrote:

Time for something a bit more specialised perhaps? Part P must be making
sparks willing/able to do domestic work ever more scarce...

Didn't fancy it. I would need to acquire C&G2391, inspection and
testing (I got the 2381 2 years ago). Then buy a shedload of test kit.
Then join an organisation like NAPIT or NICEIC.

Overall cost something like £1500 up front just to get a foot on that
ladder. The electrical work I was doing was maybe 20% of the overall
job, and it would take me about 10 years to recover that cost!

There's another reason too. I've done a few light fittings these last
couple of years, and the problem is that when I lift my hands above my
head my hands tremble - parkinsons disease coming on I expect, my
mothers family have a history of it and according to one of the
relatives my grandfather (who I never knew - he died 10 years before I
appeared on the scene) suffered badly from it - he died at age 47 so
he must've had it bad, I'm 48 and it's generally not noticable (I've
had this for a long time, I don't think it's getting worse).

It ain't funny when you are putting your screwdriver up to connect
into a terminal block (possibly a live terminal block) and the
screwdriver tip is wandering around randomly up to 2cm from where you
want to be!

Not a problem I have to worry about if I'm working in a regular job
and most people wouldn't even be aware - it's not like I'm permanently
trembling or anything. But dealing with live electrics, definitely a
no-no. Can't do anything about parkinsons anyway, it's one of those
incurables.

I'm perfectly okay if I can rest my arm solidly against something,
it's just hanging in mid-air without support that is the problem.

I no longer take cups of coffee off people in mid-air because I can
get the shakes low down as well.

Andrew

..;

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:19:55 +0000, Andrew McKay
wrote:

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 02:10:35 +0000, Andy Hall
wrote:

Sorry to hear of your outcome...... I know that if it was possible
to make more of a success of it, that you would have done it - as far
as I could tell, you were going about it from the business
perspectives in the right way.

I think the main error of my ways was that I didn't want to migrate to
doing something more specialised. I enjoyed doing the little jobs for
people - big problem with that is butting enough together to make it
worthwhile, and being able to charge enough to cover the expense.

It's always a balance between generalisation and specialisation. I've
always been able to work by having a proportion of each - initially
being a specialist where there is a new thing that isn't yet wide
spread, and then relegating that to generalisation as I go. I make
usre that there is always new stuff to maintain the specialisation
part. One can do specialisation at the back end, but that's highly
risky and eventually goes away.



Definitely up for a beer, but...... I will be out of the country all
of that week. Could we go for the week before or after? Ideally
nearer beginning or end of week? Venue was OK I thought, and the
company.....

How's about Tuesday 12th April, same location?

Works for me.



Andrew



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:05:59 +0000, Andrew McKay
wrote:

Hi Folks,
HandyMac reporting back for dooty, it's been a while since I
frequented this newsgroup. "Hello" to old friends, "nice to meet you"
to the new folks that I don't know. And if you weren't classed as a
friend then the same parameters as before apply (e.g. "sod off IMM" or
whatever you've transmoggrified into these days ).

Just thought I'd make my presence known. I've got 5000+ usenet
messages waiting in this forum and I ain't got time to review them
all, so take it from me that I'm not to date with latest rumours or
gossip as far as the great god DIY is concerned.

I thought those who know me might like to know that I have now given
up the general handyman bit. After nearly 2 years of trying to make it
work out I've given up. Basic problem is that I can't make anything
like a decent living out of it, if I make £200 a month these days it's
a good month, and I can't exist on that sort of income level. Well I
can, but living in the gutter isn't an option that fits into my radar.

Note: If anyone is looking at hiring someone the infamous John Inman
phrase applies - "I'm free". Well, maybe I ain't gonna work for free,
but I'm available.....you can get to me via the enquiry form on my
regular web site - http://www.kazmax.co.uk. I'm not actually focussed
on any particular type of job, I just want to do something interesting
which I won't get too bored with - stacking shelves at Tescos is
unlikely to appear on my future CV but some sort of admin type job
might be just perfect. I'd really like to get back into some sort of
team operation 'cos I miss the camaradre of working with other people
a lot (apologies for the understatement....).

One thing that has become very clear to me in recent months is that
there are a lot more handymen out there these days, and that's
obviously taken a goodly amount of business away from me. 12 months
ago I was booking work 6+ weeks in advance, yet before I gave up at
the beginning of this month I was pretty much able to book stuff in
the next day. Being able to say "see you tomorrow" generally doesn't
convey the right message to customers 'cos if you ain't seen to be
busy then all sorts of wrong conclusions can be drawn. Much better to
suck your teeth and say "well missus, I can do that job but I'm booked
solid for the next 3 months see....".

I feel that there are a lot more IT people (or should I say "ex-IT"
people) trying their hand at this handyman lark. The local Homebase
and other DIY store car parks usually have half a dozen family cars
with ladders on top and the usual paraphenalia that you expect a
handyman to be carrying around. Maybe it's just a Thames Valley thing,
for sure there have been lots of people finding their way out of work
in this area these last couple of years.

If anyone was dreaming about trying their hand at giving up the day
job to become a general handyman, my advice is - be careful. It has
its benefits (it's nice not having to report to anyone), but the
downsides really catch up big time before you know it. It's the kind
of thing that you really need to be able to support financially
without having to depend on the income, if you need to depend on the
income it generates then I wouldn't recommend it as an option.


Hi Andy, I don't know of your history in this newsgroup as I tend to
dip in and out every so often, but I read yout story with interest.

I also work as a 'handyman' with a main emphasis on decorating, and
have been doing so for the past 12 years or so. It was something I
just fell into [long story - directionless soul, etc!] being short of
money and essentially practical in nature. I do ok. But anyway...

Depends on several factors though. If you are into building kitchens
or bathrooms and able to command a couple of grand per job then it
could work out fine. It failed for me because even though I could have
done (and occasionally did do) I never really aspired to doing the
larger jobs which took several days of effort. And there are only so
many mirrors and cupboards you can hang for little old
ladies.....basically I couldn't stitch enough little jobs together to
provide anything like a decent working week.

This is a big factor I think. There is no way I'd be able to survive
on small jobs. Most on my jobs are more than 3-5 days plus. In fact I
dislike the smsller jobs as they're a lot more difficult to charge
reasonable money forr. It's not that the jobs aren't out there, but
you need the customers, lots of them. For every small job, that's a
new customer. Ok, you'd be going back for repeat work, but 5 customers
at 1-2 week each = 5-10 weeks continuous work as oppoed to 5 customers
at 1-2 days each = a lot less. Big difference.

But I think you're right, loads of people doing this kind of work now
- not always to the advantage of Joe Public though. Of course, that's
not me :-]

Anyway, good luck with future endeavours.

Cheers
Garry


Do I see this as a failure? No way. I can now grow old without having
to look back and wish I'd tried to do this. For sure the numbers
didn't work out - but I feel much better for having got off my butt to
try something different. And there's a certain amount of satisfaction
that Gordon Brown hasn't been paid the levels of taxes that he has
ripped from me in previous years (everything is declared, I've never
been a tax cheat - I just haven't been able to make enough income to
make the tax take worthwhile for Gordon). If that has helped fsck
Gordons figures these last couple of years I'm a happy bunny.

I guess it must be about time for another beer for those in the Thames
Valley area. Assuming that someone isn't in the process of organising
one perhaps I can start the ball rolling. The last one I went to was
The George at Winnersh in Wokingham, some jolly decent food and
pleasant company, so anyone fancy repeating that venue? Can go
somewhere else if folks prefer.

Date wise, how does Wednesday April 6th grab you folks? Again, just a
line in the sand that can be moved any which way.

Andrew

Andrew McKay wrote:

Time for something a bit more specialised perhaps? Part P must be making
sparks willing/able to do domestic work ever more scarce...


Didn't fancy it. I would need to acquire C&G2391, inspection and
testing (I got the 2381 2 years ago). Then buy a shedload of test kit.
Then join an organisation like NAPIT or NICEIC.

Overall cost something like £1500 up front just to get a foot on that
ladder. The electrical work I was doing was maybe 20% of the overall
job, and it would take me about 10 years to recover that cost!

I was aware of the costs... it would only be worth doing if it were to
become a full time occupation as a sparks rather than as an adjunct to a
more general handyman occupation. It that case I would expect you could
recover the costs in the first few decent sized jobs.

There's another reason too. I've done a few light fittings these last
couple of years, and the problem is that when I lift my hands above my
head my hands tremble - parkinsons disease coming on I expect, my

Ah, can see that may be more of an issue....

How about gas fitting then, you don't need to be quite so precise with a
blowtorch! :-)

In article , Andrew
McKay wrote:
I think the main error of my ways was that I didn't want to
migrate to doing something more specialised. I enjoyed doing
the little jobs for people - big problem with that is butting
enough together to make it worthwhile, and being able to
charge enough to cover the expense.

When I first went self employed with a fellow BCO we thought that
we could not fail to make a fortune given the lack of competence of
most people out there. But we quickly found out that it is harder
than it looks, and you're right about small jobs: the time taken to
look at them, go out and get the stuff, do them, drink tea with
customer etc makes it hard to earn a living. We migrated on to
extensions which are easy until you get to the knocking through
stage and all the making good, extending services etc.

Having said that there seems to be a real shortage of reliable
tradesmen round here and people like my mum are (not unreasonably)
scared of being fleeced. She (and I) would regard a reasonable half
day's work for £100 as being more than reasonable.

I'm on for April 12th

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

"Andrew McKay" wrote in message
...

....basically I couldn't stitch enough little jobs together to
provide anything like a decent working week.


It is a pity that tradesmen cannot charge a reasonable amount for small jobs
(reasonable in terms of the true cost), because the end result is that some
people are unable to get such jobs done at all. If there is a small job
beyond my DIY ability - say replacing a single tile on the roof - I know is
it is almost impossible to get someone to attend to it, yet avoiding water
damage inside for me would certainly be worth a 3 figure sum.

James

Tony Bryer wrote:
Having said that there seems to be a real shortage of reliable
tradesmen round here and people like my mum are (not unreasonably)
scared of being fleeced. She (and I) would regard a reasonable half
day's work for £100 as being more than reasonable.

Perhaps the answer is not to quote on a job basis, but on a day or half
day basis and tell the customers to save up all their jobs (apart from
the emergencies, obvoiusly) for three or six months so they get their
money's worth when you do call.

That assumes theyr'e the sort of jobs you don't need to know much about
beforehand to have the right tools and equipment on the pantechnicon, of
course.

The other thing that might help is to have a reliable one day per week
booked with a large employer as a handyman, even if much of the job is
actually running the stationery cupboard or moving tables about.

Owain

In article , Owain wrote:
The other thing that might help is to have a reliable one day
per week booked with a large employer as a handyman, even if
much of the job is actually running the stationery cupboard
or moving tables about.

I work from a serviced office and the manager has a regular guy
who comes in and sorts out bulb replacements and all minor
repairs every two or three weeks. You won't make a fortune on
work like this, but if you are reliable and can do the job it's
an ongoing source of income.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser
http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm

On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:36:53 -0000, "James"
wrote:

It is a pity that tradesmen cannot charge a reasonable amount for small jobs
(reasonable in terms of the true cost), because the end result is that some
people are unable to get such jobs done at all. If there is a small job
beyond my DIY ability - say replacing a single tile on the roof - I know is
it is almost impossible to get someone to attend to it, yet avoiding water
damage inside for me would certainly be worth a 3 figure sum.

The issue here is stitching together enough of those small jobs to
make it work out. Charging a tenner a time is all very well, but
unless you can do 20 of them in a day it really isn't worth it.

Andrew

Andrew McKay wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:36:53 -0000, "James"
wrote:


It is a pity that tradesmen cannot charge a reasonable amount for small jobs
(reasonable in terms of the true cost), because the end result is that some
people are unable to get such jobs done at all. If there is a small job
beyond my DIY ability - say replacing a single tile on the roof - I know is
it is almost impossible to get someone to attend to it, yet avoiding water
damage inside for me would certainly be worth a 3 figure sum.


The issue here is stitching together enough of those small jobs to
make it work out. Charging a tenner a time is all very well, but
unless you can do 20 of them in a day it really isn't worth it.

But James is saying that he'd happily pay 100 quid for a small but
difficult (to him) job if only he could get someone to do it!

But then again tradesmen who do charge that much get accused of
profiteering or cashing-in (or worse if their customer is an OAP) so I
suppose it's a no win situation.

David