"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Bob" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:


No matter what the prats like Drivel say, in real world conditions, a
combi just won't fill a bath as fast as a decent storage system.


No matter what the prats like Drivel say, in real world conditions, a
combi just won't fill a bath.

Obvious typo fixed ;-)

Amazing! Here is man who has to be told blow by blow how to flush out rads
and now knows all about water heating. Amazing!

Sounds like some of the workmen who've been up here! )

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
To have good bath filling performance as well, you need either a
commercial size combi,

There are domestic high flow combi's.

Depends what you mean by high flow. It means nothing unless supported by
figures that give a real world comarision.

or some sort of storage based solution, which can be a "one (larger)
box" solution,

Which is called a combi.

or a two part cylinder and boiler solution.

In a flat you don't want that.

Not everyone lives in a flat - even those on council estates.


I don't want everyone living in my flat. It'd be far too overcrowded!

Nemo
(Still confused)

In article ,
nemo wrote:
DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969!

No it's not. You may DIY in your own home if competent.

--
*Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
To have good bath filling performance as well, you need either a
commercial size combi,

There are domestic high flow combi's.

Depends what you mean by high flow.

Not low flow.

or some sort of storage based solution, which can be a "one (larger)
box" solution,

Which is called a combi.

or a two part cylinder and boiler solution.

In a flat you don't want that.

Not everyone lives in a flat

This man lives in a flat.

- even those on council estates.

How about sink estates?

Most would be more concerned about
performance at the end of the day.

That is why he needs a high flow combi.


The flow from the kitchen tap seems reasonable, but because of its
constricting nozzle and a sharp 90% downturn at the end of the spout, has a
terrible whistle. That's another thing I've been complaining to the buggers
about. It sets off my Tinnitus something rotten!

The pratt who designed the tap obviously knew all about what would look
trendy and fashionable, but knew bugger-all about hydrodynamics!

Add to that the tiny sink, banging waste pipe, gritty paintwork, crooked
architraves, a badly cracked kitchen unit that was patched up and used
anyway and could have fallen off the wall onto my head!! - and the floor
covering bubbling up, and I'm beginning to think a bunch of chimpanzees on
heroin could have done a better job!

Not to mention a long stream of bull**** that Private Walker or Dell Boy
would have been proud of!

Nemo

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Not everyone lives in a flat

This man lives in a flat.

Whilst this may be so you're making things up again as he hasn't stated
it.


This man does indeed live in a flat!

It's in Crowndale Court, Somers Town, London and the block was built in
1958. Bricks over a concrete and RSJ frame construction. Very solid. Too
damned solid. You can hear a coin drop two floors up!

And now they also want to use a diamond drill to drill a 4" holes through
the load-supporting concrete beams above the kitchen and bathroom windows to
fit the extractor fans! They say the regulations allow this as long as the
hole is in the bottom 1/3rd of the beam. Compare the expense of this with
fitting the fans in the window panes as usual.

On a DIY programme on TV they said the regs forbade drilling any sort of
hole in a load-bearing member.

I think it's actually a crafty way of demolishing the block to put up a
hotel. We're a two minute walk from the Cross Channel Rail Link!

Nemo

In article ,
nemo wrote:
Nope. 2 litres - and yes - it is a dribble.


Much as I decry combis, even the worst should do better than that.

--
*If you remember the '60s, you weren't really there

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nemo wrote:
Nope. 2 litres - and yes - it is a dribble.


Much as I decry combis,

You have never seen one, or seen one in action. Have a look at the Alpha
CD50. Must niceness to be seen.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:55:38 +0000, nemo wrote:

Does anyone know if the Worcester (Bosch) Greenstar HE Combi Boiler was
made
obsolete by a new regulation which came into force on April 1st?

The Council have installed these on my estate and there is a rumour
going
around that this is the case and because of the regulation Camden
managed to
get them on the cheap. This would not be unusual for Camden, believe me!
Our
last lot of lifts were obsolete when they went in and have given us 30
years
of hell! They've learned though. The new ones are state-of-the-art.

The boilers seem OK, except that they take ages to fill the bath up -
but if
we should have got better ones, we should have had better ones.

The contractor Camden are using is Makers. Very imaginative name. Does
anyone know anything about them? The general consensus here is that
they're
a bunch poorly-skilled cowboys run by con-men!


One of the problems for plumbers working for corporate Landlords is that
inevitably there is a team of them. So that when there is a problem if the
plumber does not fix it all in one go then the next time there is a call
someone else gets the job and starts all over again.

This makes the service company look even more incompetant than they
actually are.

It is not is the medium or longer term interest of any Landlord to fit a
boiler that is average or below in terms of long life.

The unit they have chosen is IMHO probably towards the better end of the
spectrum in both quality and efficiency - it is a condensing unit and
therefore has not been made obselete by the new energy efficiency
standards.

Combination boilers do not generally fill baths quickly, however they have
advantages and disadvantages seem main FAQ.


'Makers' aren't just plumbers. They're a general contractor and are doing
the whole lot - new kitchens, bathrooms and toilets and decs to communal
staircases etc. And actually, the plumbers have been pretty good, as have
most of the skilled guys.

As I said, apart from the low flow-rate the boiler is fine. I've just had my
first gas bill since it was fitted and it's about 30% less for this time of
year.

It's just that we've had so much bull**** from some of the workmen, the Site
Manager and the Council and broken promises from the consulting architect,
Sprunt, what we were getting, that we're gravely suspicious of any
rumour alleging we're being ripped off.

There was also a huge amount of mistrust generated by the way they handled
the "Options Appraisal" part of the process, with a survey that would have
conned us into voting for major works without realising we'd be moved out
for them! The consultant was CAPITA in those days, which explains a lot.

In the end we formed a working group and took the survey over. We weren't
supposed to know we could do that - and when our fully informative survey
came back - surprise, surprise - a huge majority had voted for Option One,
which was as much of the package as could be done without us having to be
moved out. We'd have ended up spread all over the country with the housing
shortage in London!

And then, just before the works were due to start, the Council's new Project
Manager started acting with extreme hostility to the Working Group and
more-or-less bullied it into non-existence - or rather it's down to one
person now. Me!

It is as it's always been - the usual "You thick tenant - me big
professional" routine - except we've got all sorts of professionals on this
estate - even the one and only lady Goldsmith of the City of London! - and
every other art, craft, trade and profession going as well. (Except the
oldest. We did have one of those but she got evicted! ;o)

Makers and the Council still choose not to accept this and instead like to
go by the right-wing press stereotypes of council tenants, i.e., single mums
who had their babies deliberately to get a flat and are on benefits and
drugs and families consisting of hooligans and criminals! - and when they
realise this ain't so, they behave as though it's our fault!

Add to that the fact that the Council Officers involved live out in the
sticks with large mortgages around their necks, have to commute to their
work in smelly, overcrowded trains and hate our guts because we live in
low(ish) rent, central London properties, and you can see what we're up
against.

I really resent this attitude. I didn't get this flat because of any
privilege or scam. I inherited the tenancy after my mother died, and believe
me, I'd much rather be out in the sticks paying off a large mortgage like
them with her still around!

Sorry for the tome, but these things do have to be said, especially for
anyone thinking of employing Makers and for any other Council tenants about
to find themselves in the same predicament! Our leaseholders were interested
in using Makers at first. They ain't now!

Oh, yes. And one of our leaseholders is Lloyd Newson. You might have seen
his modern dance film a few weeks ago on Channel 4. He started here as a
"thick tenant" too!

Nemo




--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:

in real world conditions, a
combi just won't fill a bath as fast
as a decent storage system.

I told you he has never seen one. The Alpha CD50 fills a bath as fast as
any cylinder system. Ideal, Potterton, Eco-Hometec, Viessmann, etc
fills baths within a couple of minutes.

This will be your

snip misinformed drivel

"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim wrote:
Nevertheless, it will be cheap to run.

Yup. So slow to fill a bath you'll just go dirty.


The evil one is in my kf but I just had to reply to this one "They
should have given you all the 40kW model"

Now how oh evil one do you know that this is suitable for the
premises
concerned?

His 'one

Now put those do not use stickers
back on your gas appliances and call in
a proper gorgi fitter. This DIY at its worse I tell you.

DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969!

I know what you mean. This one should be locked up.

"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:12:41 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
I've measured the flow and it's a bit over 2 litres per minute.

Are you sure its is 2 litres./min? That is a dribble.

It's a combi. ;-)

You obviously lack familiarity - they are not _that_ bad.

The OP may have meant 2 gals/ minute = 9 litre/min which
given he says it's hot is fine.

Nope. 2 litres - and yes - it is a dribble.

What is the cold water kitchen tap like? Is that a dribble? It the combi
fed from the tank? If so get it onto the cold water mains.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nemo wrote:

DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969!

No it's not.

But you still should be locked up though.

"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Brian Sharrock" wrote in message
...

"nemo" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
You haven't stated the model number, and it appears it is a combi.
Combi's are rated on the hot water flowrate. There is a high
flowrate
model of Greenstar, you obviously didn't get that one. They should
have
given you all the 40kW model.

Nevertheless, it will be cheap to run.

Yup. So slow to fill a bath you'll just go dirty.


Still better than when I was a kid in Sandwich Street Kings Cross. We
had
a
tin bath hanging in the back yard which came indoors about once a
month.
My
parents then put the kettle and all the saucepans we had on the
kitchen
range, stoked it up, and we all took turns in the same water!!
Fortunately,
I always got first go!

How standards change. If anyone had said in those days that in 40 odd
years
time advertisers would have managed to con and shame men into wearing
perfume by calling it after shave and deodorant, they'd have been
laughed
out of court!


You'll be telling us next; that you remember when only sailors had
tattoos
and only girls wore earrings!


I didn't know any sailors, ducky, but I do understand from the ghost of
the
highly steamed Mr. Spike Milligan, that nowadays they have Government
Health
Warnings printed on the tails of their shirts. It's more humane than
tattooing it in the operative location!

And I do remember that the only fast food chains we had were Lyons, based
on
the NAAFI, or as we called them, Lyonziz - beans on toast and a cuppa tea
for a shillin (5p)! - and Black and While Milk Bars. Art Deco and full of
spotty teenagers before they were even called that.

And don't forget steaming gins, trams, trolleybuses, getting engulfed in
steam from goods trains when standing on the gratings in the middle of
Euston Road, blood and custard BR Scammel artics, small 3-wheeled Scammel
vans - there were hundreds of those about - bicycles with small engines
inside the back wheel or atop the front, listening to The Goon Show on the
Home Service on a Ferguson valve wireless on top of the meat-safe in the
kitchen, British motorbikes that sounded like motorbikes instead of sewing
machines, . . . . . the end is listless!

That all sounds very sad.

"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:55:38 +0000, nemo wrote:

There was also a huge amount of mistrust generated by the way they handled
the "Options Appraisal" part of the process, with a survey that would have
conned us into voting for major works without realising we'd be moved out
for them! The consultant was CAPITA in those days, which explains a lot.

The combi should be delivering approx 10 litres/minute. Get them back to
fix it. Capita are a cowboy rip-off organisation preying on local councils.
They do the council tax collections for many councils and also own the
bailiff companies that step in too. They are quick to bring in bailiffs for
quite trivial amounts owed, as they make millions all the way at other
people's misery.

This garbage about paying by the mile for cars means that people are faced
with bills, once again people will not be able to pay and the likes of
Capita and its bailiffs will make millions at our expense - they make a LOT
of money. All needless. Petrol should have a higher tax at the pump. The
more you travel the more tax you pay. Simple really. The tax taken at
source, no collection admin, no bailiffs. Council tax is also needless.

In the end we formed a working group and took the survey over. We weren't
supposed to know we could do that - and when our fully informative survey
came back - surprise, surprise - a huge majority had voted for Option One,
which was as much of the package as could be done without us having to be
moved out. We'd have ended up spread all over the country with the housing
shortage in London!

And then, just before the works were due to start, the Council's new
Project
Manager started acting with extreme hostility to the Working Group and
more-or-less bullied it into non-existence - or rather it's down to one
person now. Me!

Don't let the ******* grind you down. Keep a diary, and demand reports.

It is as it's always been - the usual "You thick tenant - me big
professional" routine - except we've got all sorts of professionals on
this
estate - even the one and only lady Goldsmith of the City of London! - and
every other art, craft, trade and profession going as well. (Except the
oldest. We did have one of those but she got evicted! ;o)

Makers and the Council still choose not to accept this and instead like to
go by the right-wing press stereotypes of council tenants, i.e., single
mums
who had their babies deliberately to get a flat and are on benefits and
drugs and families consisting of hooligans and criminals! - and when they
realise this ain't so, they behave as though it's our fault!

Add to that the fact that the Council Officers involved live out in the
sticks with large mortgages around their necks, have to commute to their
work in smelly, overcrowded trains and hate our guts because we live in
low(ish) rent, central London properties, and you can see what we're up
against.

I really resent this attitude. I didn't get this flat because of any
privilege or scam. I inherited the tenancy after my mother died, and
believe
me, I'd much rather be out in the sticks paying off a large mortgage like
them with her still around!

Sorry for the tome, but these things do have to be said, especially for
anyone thinking of employing Makers and for any other Council tenants
about
to find themselves in the same predicament! Our leaseholders were
interested
in using Makers at first. They ain't now!

Oh, yes. And one of our leaseholders is Lloyd Newson. You might have seen
his modern dance film a few weeks ago on Channel 4. He started here as a
"thick tenant" too!

Nemo

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:55:38 +0000, nemo wrote:

There was also a huge amount of mistrust generated by the way they
handled
the "Options Appraisal" part of the process, with a survey that would
have
conned us into voting for major works without realising we'd be moved
out
for them! The consultant was CAPITA in those days, which explains a lot.

The combi should be delivering approx 10 litres/minute. Get them back to
fix it.

Capita are a cowboy rip-off organisation preying on local councils.
They do the council tax collections for many councils and also own the
bailiff companies that step in too. They are quick to bring in bailiffs
for
quite trivial amounts owed, as they make millions all the way at other
people's misery.

This garbage about paying by the mile for cars means that people are faced
with bills, once again people will not be able to pay and the likes of
Capita and its bailiffs will make millions at our expense - they make a
LOT
of money. All needless. Petrol should have a higher tax at the pump. The
more you travel the more tax you pay. Simple really. The tax taken at
source, no collection admin, no bailiffs. Council tax is also needless.

I agree with everything you say, and particularly on petrol - but Tony
B'liar is going to do the opposite with Road Pricing and he'd rather waste a
fortune on new technology instead of just having the Treasury increase the
duty and organise how to distribute the cash. Bloody stupid.

Putting all the tax on petrol will also encourage people to buy more
economical and environmentally-friendly cars. Road pricing won't. It's
daft!

Anyway, once the cat was out of the bag the Council realised the game was up
and ditched CAPITA, after spending about £120K on them!

The cat was CAPITA's survey report which they tried to keep secret, and
which we managed to publish to, well, half the estate at least.

The only reason we managed to do that was because I still had my copy. I was
a delegate at the meeting where it was presented. We all got them, and then
at CAPITA's behest, the Chair of our Tenant Management Co-operative tried to
seize them back! - in my case literally. The ******* chased me down Euston
Road trying to get me to hand it over! Nearly got me run over too! Another
delegate stuffed it down the front of her jacket and threatened to cry
"Rape!" if he tried to get at it!

(Our Tenant Management Co-operative were in cahoots with CAPITA and the
Council at the time - except for me - and if I hadn't been letting everyone
know what had been going on in committee etc., we might now indeed be spread
all over the country! I've never been forgiven for that to the extent that I
still get zero service and maximum harassment from our estate staff!)

Then when I took a really close look the report it was obvious why they
wanted it kept away from tenants! For every single piece of work however
minor, even electrical rewiring, they said we'd have to be 'decanted' (moved
out)! That's what they didn't want us to realise. And when I suggested that
the new survey document should tell people which bits of work they'd have to
move out for, the mealy-mouthed little cow of a Council officer, Jacqui
Connors, said, "We can't do that. It will alarm the tenants"! Her saying
that alarmed us more when I let everyone know and galvanised us into action.
We even ended up in the Camden New Journal holding a banner reading, "No To
The Bulldozers!"

(Maiden Lane Estate - the beautiful almost Art Deco one that leaks and has
'concrete cancer' north of Kings Cross - found out about what they were in
for in a much more dramatic way. They got so sick of being told rubbish that
they chased the Council officer off the estate and seized his briefcase with
all the stuff in it!)

CAPITA even tried to exploit the Disability Discrimination Act to get us
out. A dispicalble thing to do! They pretending that all doors - front doors
and internal - would have to be widened for wheelchairs *on all floor* and
that towers would have to be built for larger lifts for the same reason -
and - surprise, surprise, we'd all have to move out for this as well!

The Councillor I mention dealt with disability issues at the time and he
pointed out that the Act only required this sort of provision in new
buildings. In existing ones, the Act has to be applied only as far as is
practicable.This is still echoed by a set of Public Servise ads on radio and
TV from time to time.

To cut a long story short: CAPITA disappeared with £120K of CT payers'
money, the amount of cash we were promised shrunk from £12.6Million to
£3.4Million, and Hunt Thompson Architects were appointed for the next
stage - the surveying and planning - and for the final stage, the Working
Group itself had a say in the choice of the next firm of architects,
traipsing all over London looking at work they'd done and being present at
the meeting where they did their presentations.

HTA and Sprunt were neck-and-neck quality and tenant-friendliness but
Sprunt's tender was less and by then HTA had begun sending a rep to the WG's
meetings who was a snob and just talked down to us as if we were thick
tenants again! - so Sprunt got it. Both HTA and Sprunt had/have their
faults, but these pale into insignificance compared with what CAPITA tried
to do to us!

BTW. A Councillor, now retired, who was also a barrister, used to refer to
CAPITA as the government's asset-strippers!



In the end we formed a working group and took the survey over. We
weren't
supposed to know we could do that - and when our fully informative
survey
came back - surprise, surprise - a huge majority had voted for Option
One,
which was as much of the package as could be done without us having to
be
moved out. We'd have ended up spread all over the country with the
housing
shortage in London!

And then, just before the works were due to start, the Council's new
Project
Manager started acting with extreme hostility to the Working Group and
more-or-less bullied it into non-existence - or rather it's down to one
person now. Me!

Don't let the ******* grind you down. Keep a diary, and demand reports.


My Inbox and Sent Items folders are my diary. Everything this project
and a lot of other stuff community safety etc. goes to the person
responsible and to my Ward Councillors, one of whom at least, is very good
at laying down the law and getting things done.


It is as it's always been - the usual "You thick tenant - me big
professional" routine - except we've got all sorts of professionals on
this
estate - even the one and only lady Goldsmith of the City of London! -
and
every other art, craft, trade and profession going as well. (Except the
oldest. We did have one of those but she got evicted! ;o)

Makers and the Council still choose not to accept this and instead like
to
go by the right-wing press stereotypes of council tenants, i.e., single
mums
who had their babies deliberately to get a flat and are on benefits and
drugs and families consisting of hooligans and criminals! - and when
they
realise this ain't so, they behave as though it's our fault!

Add to that the fact that the Council Officers involved live out in the
sticks with large mortgages around their necks, have to commute to their
work in smelly, overcrowded trains and hate our guts because we live in
low(ish) rent, central London properties, and you can see what we're up
against.

I really resent this attitude. I didn't get this flat because of any
privilege or scam. I inherited the tenancy after my mother died, and
believe
me, I'd much rather be out in the sticks paying off a large mortgage
like
them with her still around!

Sorry for the tome, but these things do have to be said, especially for
anyone thinking of employing Makers and for any other Council tenants
about
to find themselves in the same predicament! Our leaseholders were
interested
in using Makers at first. They ain't now!

Oh, yes. And one of our leaseholders is Lloyd Newson. You might have
seen
his modern dance film a few weeks ago on Channel 4. He started here as a
"thick tenant" too!

Nemo

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:12:41 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
I've measured the flow and it's a bit over 2 litres per minute.

Are you sure its is 2 litres./min? That is a dribble.

It's a combi. ;-)

You obviously lack familiarity - they are not _that_ bad.

The OP may have meant 2 gals/ minute = 9 litre/min which
given he says it's hot is fine.

Nope. 2 litres - and yes - it is a dribble.

What is the cold water kitchen tap like? Is that a dribble? It the combi
fed from the tank? If so get it onto the cold water mains.


It's all off the mains via a non-return valve or a pressure regulator,
depending on who you ask! That's how dumb they are!

Whatever it is, it makes a strange, irritating almost stereo low groaning
noise at the end of the toilet cistern's fill and when there's a tap on very
low. This is another defect they don't want to attend to!

All the cold taps are fairly fierce which is OK.

The kitchen and hand-basin hot taps are reasonable but this is more down to
them having nozzle filters and smaller bores which are backing up the
pressure, giving the appearance of a higher flow-rate if you get what I
mean. It's just the bath hot tap that's showing the true lousy rate of flow.

There's a separate stop-cock under the bath for it and that's full on. I've
just checked - although the whole system is festooned with small,
screwdriver-operated valves for some reason.

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Brian Sharrock" wrote in message
...

"nemo" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
You haven't stated the model number, and it appears it is a
combi.
Combi's are rated on the hot water flowrate. There is a high
flowrate
model of Greenstar, you obviously didn't get that one. They
should
have
given you all the 40kW model.

Nevertheless, it will be cheap to run.

Yup. So slow to fill a bath you'll just go dirty.


Still better than when I was a kid in Sandwich Street Kings Cross.
We
had
a
tin bath hanging in the back yard which came indoors about once a
month.
My
parents then put the kettle and all the saucepans we had on the
kitchen
range, stoked it up, and we all took turns in the same water!!
Fortunately,
I always got first go!

How standards change. If anyone had said in those days that in 40
odd
years
time advertisers would have managed to con and shame men into
wearing
perfume by calling it after shave and deodorant, they'd have been
laughed
out of court!


You'll be telling us next; that you remember when only sailors had
tattoos
and only girls wore earrings!


I didn't know any sailors, ducky, but I do understand from the ghost of
the
highly steamed Mr. Spike Milligan, that nowadays they have Government
Health
Warnings printed on the tails of their shirts. It's more humane than
tattooing it in the operative location!

And I do remember that the only fast food chains we had were Lyons,
based
on
the NAAFI, or as we called them, Lyonziz - beans on toast and a cuppa
tea
for a shillin (5p)! - and Black and While Milk Bars. Art Deco and full
of
spotty teenagers before they were even called that.

And don't forget steaming gins, trams, trolleybuses, getting engulfed in
steam from goods trains when standing on the gratings in the middle of
Euston Road, blood and custard BR Scammel artics, small 3-wheeled
Scammel
vans - there were hundreds of those about - bicycles with small engines
inside the back wheel or atop the front, listening to The Goon Show on
the
Home Service on a Ferguson valve wireless on top of the meat-safe in the
kitchen, British motorbikes that sounded like motorbikes instead of
sewing
machines, . . . . . the end is listless!

That all sounds very sad.


Narr. It was luverleee. Virtually no muggings. No gun culture. No drug
culture. No pushers shooting each other in front of little kids. Kids
behaved themselves. Music was for everyone in those days too - popular,
light and classical - not just nasty aggressive music for nasty aggressive
youngsters to identify with and suffer permanent hearing-loss from (It's
true.) - and female vocalists all sounding the same and singing like
there're spiny cacti soaked in Tabasco Sauce up their arses!

And yes, we said "there are'" and "there're" in those days too - not just
"there's" for singular *and* plural. I wonder where that originated, too
rass clart! ) - and we knew where apostrophes went in those days and
why!!

And there was virtually no peer pressure! You did as you liked. The worse I
got was "Why don't you have a quiff in your hair?" - and that only once.
(It's still back-combed and has been in a pony-tail for years. Sod fashion.
It keeps it out of the way and saves a fortune on haircuts!)

And there were creative hobbies too. Nowadays, would a working-class
youngster dare to tell his/her peers that s/he has a railway layout s/he's
built himself, s/he's into electronics, plays the violin or that s/he
paints?

There's so much equality about these days that I'm supposed to say "his/her"
but so little respect for the different things people choose to do in their
spare time.

Nowadays, the poor little buggers get beaten up just for wearing the wrong
trainers for heaven's sake, and that's at a time when large numbers of them
are obese precisely because they don;t train! And in my day the fore-runners
(pun) of trainers were a purely utilitarian gym-shoe called a Plimsoll,
invented by the same guy who came up with the line on ships which shows how
low in the water they are. He got freeboard and lodging for that idea.
(pun.)

There were downsides too of course. Medicine was much more primitive. I've
had a few things go wrong in the last few years which might well have killed
me in the 50s.

Beer was only a % or two alcohol if you were lucky and Real Ale was unheard
of and cider was a joke! The price of a bottle of wine was extortionate and
if you drunk it you were considered a poof!

There were the London smogs of course, when people died. Coal fires were
nice and cosy but totally buggered the environment in those days. There was
no Health and Safety at Work Act so bosses could put workers into all sorts
of danger and just fire them if they protested or when they were injured or
became ill. And there were no food labelling regulations. You just didn't
know what you were eating. I've been Vegan since around 1968 and couldn't
have done without those.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nemo wrote:
DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969!

No it's not. You may DIY in your own home if competent.

Does a Corgi guy have to inspect it though?

In article ,
nemo wrote:
Music was for everyone in those days too - popular, light and classical
- not just nasty aggressive music for nasty aggressive youngsters to
identify with and suffer permanent hearing-loss from (It's true.)

You weren't around at the start of rock and roll, then?

--
*Virtual reality is its own reward *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:42:57 GMT, "nemo" babbled
like a waterfall and said:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nemo wrote:
DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969!

No it's not. You may DIY in your own home if competent.

Does a Corgi guy have to inspect it though?

No you have certified yourself as being Competent.

So when the front wall of your house blows off, taking out the bus
queue of kids, you can confidently tell the fuzz that the manslaughter
charges will be well defended.

"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news On Fri, 10 Jun 2005 18:55:38 +0000, nemo wrote:

There was also a huge amount of mistrust generated by the way they
handled
the "Options Appraisal" part of the process, with a survey that would
have
conned us into voting for major works without realising we'd be moved
out
for them! The consultant was CAPITA in those days, which explains a
lot.

The combi should be delivering approx 10 litres/minute. Get them back
to
fix it.

Capita are a cowboy rip-off organisation preying on local councils.
They do the council tax collections for many councils and also own the
bailiff companies that step in too. They are quick to bring in bailiffs
for
quite trivial amounts owed, as they make millions all the way at other
people's misery.

This garbage about paying by the mile for cars means that people are
faced
with bills, once again people will not be able to pay and the likes of
Capita and its bailiffs will make millions at our expense - they make a
LOT
of money. All needless. Petrol should have a higher tax at the pump.
The
more you travel the more tax you pay. Simple really. The tax taken at
source, no collection admin, no bailiffs. Council tax is also needless.

I agree with everything you say, and particularly on petrol - but Tony
B'liar is going to do the opposite with Road Pricing and he'd rather waste
a
fortune on new technology instead of just having the Treasury increase the
duty and organise how to distribute the cash. Bloody stupid.

They are just test public reaction. It will not be accepted. the fact that
someone can know where you are will put that to rest. Putting the tax on
petrol only means higher fuel prices. Overall it may be cheaper but people
don't look at it that way. High fuel process is a not a vote winner. I
notice opposition didn't really slag the spy in the car. Just token
criticism.

Putting all the tax on petrol will also encourage people to buy more
economical and environmentally-friendly cars. Road pricing won't. It's
daft!

I agree.

Anyway, once the cat was out of the bag the Council realised the game was
up
and ditched CAPITA, after spending about £120K on them!

The cat was CAPITA's survey report which they tried to keep secret, and
which we managed to publish to, well, half the estate at least.

The only reason we managed to do that was because I still had my copy. I
was
a delegate at the meeting where it was presented. We all got them, and
then
at CAPITA's behest, the Chair of our Tenant Management Co-operative tried
to
seize them back! - in my case literally. The ******* chased me down Euston
Road trying to get me to hand it over! Nearly got me run over too! Another
delegate stuffed it down the front of her jacket and threatened to cry
"Rape!" if he tried to get at it!

(Our Tenant Management Co-operative were in cahoots with CAPITA and the
Council at the time - except for me - and if I hadn't been letting
everyone
know what had been going on in committee etc., we might now indeed be
spread
all over the country! I've never been forgiven for that to the extent that
I
still get zero service and maximum harassment from our estate staff!)

Then when I took a really close look the report it was obvious why they
wanted it kept away from tenants! For every single piece of work however
minor, even electrical rewiring, they said we'd have to be 'decanted'
(moved
out)! That's what they didn't want us to realise. And when I suggested
that
the new survey document should tell people which bits of work they'd have
to
move out for, the mealy-mouthed little cow of a Council officer, Jacqui
Connors, said, "We can't do that. It will alarm the tenants"! Her saying
that alarmed us more when I let everyone know and galvanised us into
action.
We even ended up in the Camden New Journal holding a banner reading, "No
To
The Bulldozers!"

(Maiden Lane Estate - the beautiful almost Art Deco one that leaks and has
'concrete cancer' north of Kings Cross - found out about what they were in
for in a much more dramatic way. They got so sick of being told rubbish
that
they chased the Council officer off the estate and seized his briefcase
with
all the stuff in it!)

CAPITA even tried to exploit the Disability Discrimination Act to get us
out. A dispicalble thing to do! They pretending that all doors - front
doors
and internal - would have to be widened for wheelchairs *on all floor* and
that towers would have to be built for larger lifts for the same reason -
and - surprise, surprise, we'd all have to move out for this as well!

The Councillor I mention dealt with disability issues at the time and he
pointed out that the Act only required this sort of provision in new
buildings. In existing ones, the Act has to be applied only as far as is
practicable.This is still echoed by a set of Public Servise ads on radio
and
TV from time to time.

To cut a long story short: CAPITA disappeared with £120K of CT payers'
money, the amount of cash we were promised shrunk from £12.6Million to
£3.4Million, and Hunt Thompson Architects were appointed for the next
stage - the surveying and planning - and for the final stage, the Working
Group itself had a say in the choice of the next firm of architects,
traipsing all over London looking at work they'd done and being present at
the meeting where they did their presentations.

HTA and Sprunt were neck-and-neck quality and tenant-friendliness but
Sprunt's tender was less and by then HTA had begun sending a rep to the
WG's
meetings who was a snob and just talked down to us as if we were thick
tenants again! - so Sprunt got it. Both HTA and Sprunt had/have their
faults, but these pale into insignificance compared with what CAPITA tried
to do to us!

BTW. A Councillor, now retired, who was also a barrister, used to refer to
CAPITA as the government's asset-strippers!



In the end we formed a working group and took the survey over. We
weren't
supposed to know we could do that - and when our fully informative
survey
came back - surprise, surprise - a huge majority had voted for Option
One,
which was as much of the package as could be done without us having to
be
moved out. We'd have ended up spread all over the country with the
housing
shortage in London!

And then, just before the works were due to start, the Council's new
Project
Manager started acting with extreme hostility to the Working Group and
more-or-less bullied it into non-existence - or rather it's down to
one
person now. Me!

Don't let the ******* grind you down. Keep a diary, and demand reports.


My Inbox and Sent Items folders are my diary. Everything this project
and a lot of other stuff community safety etc. goes to the person
responsible and to my Ward Councillors, one of whom at least, is very good
at laying down the law and getting things done.


It is as it's always been - the usual "You thick tenant - me big
professional" routine - except we've got all sorts of professionals on
this
estate - even the one and only lady Goldsmith of the City of London! -
and
every other art, craft, trade and profession going as well. (Except
the
oldest. We did have one of those but she got evicted! ;o)

Makers and the Council still choose not to accept this and instead
like
to
go by the right-wing press stereotypes of council tenants, i.e.,
single
mums
who had their babies deliberately to get a flat and are on benefits
and
drugs and families consisting of hooligans and criminals! - and when
they
realise this ain't so, they behave as though it's our fault!

Add to that the fact that the Council Officers involved live out in
the
sticks with large mortgages around their necks, have to commute to
their
work in smelly, overcrowded trains and hate our guts because we live
in
low(ish) rent, central London properties, and you can see what we're
up
against.

I really resent this attitude. I didn't get this flat because of any
privilege or scam. I inherited the tenancy after my mother died, and
believe
me, I'd much rather be out in the sticks paying off a large mortgage
like
them with her still around!

Sorry for the tome, but these things do have to be said, especially
for
anyone thinking of employing Makers and for any other Council tenants
about
to find themselves in the same predicament! Our leaseholders were
interested
in using Makers at first. They ain't now!

Oh, yes. And one of our leaseholders is Lloyd Newson. You might have
seen
his modern dance film a few weeks ago on Channel 4. He started here as
a
"thick tenant" too!

Nemo

"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nemo wrote:
DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969!

No it's not. You may DIY in your own home if competent.

Does a Corgi guy have to inspect it though?

No. As long as you are "competent". In rented property the matter may be
different. A corgi man has to inspect every rented [property each year.
Not sure about council places.

In article ,
EricP wrote:
DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969!

No it's not. You may DIY in your own home if competent.

Does a Corgi guy have to inspect it though?

No you have certified yourself as being Competent.

So when the front wall of your house blows off, taking out the bus
queue of kids, you can confidently tell the fuzz that the manslaughter
charges will be well defended.

And try finding the cowboy plumber who is far more likely to be
responsible for this sort of scenario than a DIYer working in his own home?

The point is that few would touch gas in their own *home* unless they
thought themselves to be competent. But cowboys do anything for money.

--
*You! Off my planet!

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , nemo
writes

"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim wrote:
Nevertheless, it will be cheap to run.

Yup. So slow to fill a bath you'll just go dirty.


The evil one is in my kf but I just had to reply to this one "They
should have given you all the 40kW model"

Now how oh evil one do you know that this is suitable for the premises
concerned?

His 'one

Now put those do not use stickers back on your gas appliances and call in
a
proper gorgi fitter. This DIY at its worse I tell you.


DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969! Although I don't see how short-legged
little dogs could do any better.

That's a lot of ******** followed by a lot of !!!s

--
geoff

In message , EricP
writes
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:42:57 GMT, "nemo" babbled
like a waterfall and said:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nemo wrote:
DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969!

No it's not. You may DIY in your own home if competent.

Does a Corgi guy have to inspect it though?

No you have certified yourself as being Competent.

So when the front wall of your house blows off,

S'funny, mine hasn't yet

taking out the bus
queue of kids,

Nah, don't have one of those either

you can confidently tell the fuzz that the manslaughter
charges will be well defended.

Yawn ...


--
geoff

In message , nemo
writes
Home Service on a Ferguson valve wireless on top of the meat-safe in the
kitchen, British motorbikes that sounded like motorbikes instead of
sewing
machines, . . . . . the end is listless!

That all sounds very sad.


Narr. It was luverleee. Virtually no muggings. No gun culture. No drug
culture. No pushers shooting each other in front of little kids. Kids
behaved themselves. Music was for everyone in those days too - popular,
light and classical - not just nasty aggressive music for nasty aggressive
youngsters to identify with and suffer permanent hearing-loss from (It's
true.) - and female vocalists all sounding the same and singing like
there're spiny cacti soaked in Tabasco Sauce up their arses!

You led a sheltered life then ?

--
geoff

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:54:14 GMT, raden babbled
like a waterfall and said:

In message , EricP
writes
On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 14:42:57 GMT, "nemo" babbled
like a waterfall and said:


"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nemo wrote:
DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969!

No it's not. You may DIY in your own home if competent.

Does a Corgi guy have to inspect it though?

No you have certified yourself as being Competent.

So when the front wall of your house blows off,

S'funny, mine hasn't yet

taking out the bus
queue of kids,

Nah, don't have one of those either

you can confidently tell the fuzz that the manslaughter
charges will be well defended.

Yawn ...

Did you ever take "Comprehension" at school??
)

In message , EricP
writes
Does a Corgi guy have to inspect it though?

No you have certified yourself as being Competent.

So when the front wall of your house blows off,

S'funny, mine hasn't yet

taking out the bus
queue of kids,

Nah, don't have one of those either

you can confidently tell the fuzz that the manslaughter
charges will be well defended.

Yawn ...

Did you ever take "Comprehension" at school??
)

Non capisco

haha

--
geoff

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:34:55 +0000, nemo wrote:


"Doctor Evil" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim wrote:
Nevertheless, it will be cheap to run.

Yup. So slow to fill a bath you'll just go dirty.


The evil one is in my kf but I just had to reply to this one "They
should have given you all the 40kW model"

Now how oh evil one do you know that this is suitable for the premises
concerned?

His 'one

Now put those do not use stickers back on your gas appliances and call in
a
proper gorgi fitter. This DIY at its worse I tell you.


DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969! Although I don't see how short-legged
little dogs could do any better.

Things have moved on a little since then. See my FAQ.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 16:21:57 +0100, Doctor Evil wrote:


"nemo" wrote in message
k...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
nemo wrote:
DIY gas is illegal! Gas Act 1969!

No it's not. You may DIY in your own home if competent.

Does a Corgi guy have to inspect it though?

No. As long as you are "competent". In rented property the matter may be
different. A corgi man has to inspect every rented [property each year.
Not sure about council places.

They count as rented just the same, and the Landlord (the LA) has the same
duties. They usually farm this out to large firm of plumbers whose staff
will vary from the best to less so.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:56:53 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article .uk,
Ed Sirett wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:12:41 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
I've measured the flow and it's a bit over 2 litres per minute.

Are you sure its is 2 litres./min? That is a dribble.

It's a combi. ;-)

You obviously lack familiarity - they are not _that_ bad.

You missed the smiley, Ed. ;-)

The OP may have meant 2 gals/ minute = 9 litre/min which
given he says it's hot is fine.

His first post complained about the time to fill a bath - so it's
reasonable to assume this was his first experience of a combi.

No matter what the prats like Drivel say, in real world conditions, a
combi just won't fill a bath as fast as a decent storage system.

Of course not, but then it doesn't fill up an airing cupboard either.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:57:03 +0000, nemo wrote:


"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:12:41 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
I've measured the flow and it's a bit over 2 litres per minute.

Are you sure its is 2 litres./min? That is a dribble.

It's a combi. ;-)

You obviously lack familiarity - they are not _that_ bad.

The OP may have meant 2 gals/ minute = 9 litre/min which
given he says it's hot is fine.


Nope. 2 litres - and yes - it is a dribble.

OK you have either a problem with the boiler or with measuring flow rates.

8-).

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In article .uk,
Ed Sirett wrote:
No matter what the prats like Drivel say, in real world conditions, a
combi just won't fill a bath as fast as a decent storage system.

Of course not, but then it doesn't fill up an airing cupboard either.

With a combi you'll have to make other arrangements for an airing cupboard?

Of course Drivel would fill it up with two...

--
*Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
raden wrote:
Narr. It was luverleee. Virtually no muggings. No gun culture. No drug
culture. No pushers shooting each other in front of little kids. Kids
behaved themselves. Music was for everyone in those days too - popular,
light and classical - not just nasty aggressive music for nasty
aggressive youngsters to identify with and suffer permanent
hearing-loss from (It's true.) - and female vocalists all sounding the
same and singing like there're spiny cacti soaked in Tabasco Sauce up
their arses!

You led a sheltered life then ?

Funny, isn't it?

I'm as old as near anyone here, but I remember my parents saying exactly
the same things.

What they'd have made of fooking mobile phones on the bus or train I
shudder to think. ;-)

--
*I didn't drive my husband crazy -- I flew him there -- it was faster

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
raden wrote:
Narr. It was luverleee. Virtually no muggings. No gun culture. No drug
culture. No pushers shooting each other in front of little kids. Kids
behaved themselves. Music was for everyone in those days too - popular,
light and classical - not just nasty aggressive music for nasty
aggressive youngsters to identify with and suffer permanent
hearing-loss from (It's true.) - and female vocalists all sounding the
same and singing like there're spiny cacti soaked in Tabasco Sauce up
their arses!

You led a sheltered life then ?

Funny, isn't it?

I'm as old as near anyone here,

Senile as well.

"Ed Sirett" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 22:56:53 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article .uk,
Ed Sirett wrote:
On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 11:12:41 +0100, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
I've measured the flow and it's a bit over 2 litres per minute.

Are you sure its is 2 litres./min? That is a dribble.

It's a combi. ;-)

You obviously lack familiarity - they are not _that_ bad.

You missed the smiley, Ed. ;-)

The OP may have meant 2 gals/ minute = 9 litre/min which
given he says it's hot is fine.

His first post complained about the time to fill a bath - so it's
reasonable to assume this was his first experience of a combi.

No matter what the prats like Drivel say, in real world conditions, a
combi just won't fill a bath as fast as a decent storage system.

Of course not,

Yiou haven't fitted any high flow combi's have you Ed?

but then it doesn't fill up an airing cupboard either.

Which is a great thing. And no storage heat losses.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article .uk,
Ed Sirett wrote:
No matter what the prats like Drivel say, in real world conditions, a
combi just won't fill a bath as fast as a decent storage system.

Of course not, but then it doesn't fill up an airing cupboard either.

With a combi you'll have to make other arrangements for an airing
cupboard?

You would put those electric cabers in there, wouldn't you.

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
Of course not, but then it doesn't fill up an airing cupboard either.

With a combi you'll have to make other arrangements for an airing
cupboard?

You would put those electric cabers in there, wouldn't you.

But then you'd have no need for fresh clothes given you never take a bath?

--
*I started out with nothing... and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
You led a sheltered life then ?

Funny, isn't it?

I'm as old as near anyone here,

Senile as well.

For once you've managed a post without spelling or syntax errors.

How long did it take you?

--
*I wish the buck stopped here. I could use a few.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Doctor Evil wrote:
snip

Senile as well.

For once you've managed a post without spelling or syntax errors.

How long did it take you?


He copied it out from his medical records...