Hi,
Anyone know of an orbital sander that is particularly kind to wrist
and finger joints? Mine are getting a wee bit knackered.
Good dust extraction would be helpful too.

I want to sand a couple of small T&G floors The boards are unworn. I
did consider getting a belt sander but it seemed that if I did, I
would need to get an orbital as well. So I thought I'd settle for a
good quality orbital.

On ebay I see that quality belt sanders re-sell for a good price.
Not so with orbitals. maybe it's because belt sanders are closer to
being the ultimate big boy's sanding toy?
--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...
Hi,
Anyone know of an orbital sander that is particularly kind to wrist
and finger joints? Mine are getting a wee bit knackered.
Good dust extraction would be helpful too.

I want to sand a couple of small T&G floors The boards are unworn. I
did consider getting a belt sander but it seemed that if I did, I
would need to get an orbital as well. So I thought I'd settle for a
good quality orbital.

On ebay I see that quality belt sanders re-sell for a good price.
Not so with orbitals. maybe it's because belt sanders are closer to
being the ultimate big boy's sanding toy?


Forget Orbital - you want Random Orbital if you're going down that route.
They're hell of a lot more efficient sanding machines and don't leave nearly
as bad scratch patterns on the finished article (these have a habit of being
invisible until you lovingly apply your first coat of finish...).

What's the material of the floor - ordinary softwood? If it's oak or
anything like that then I'd strongly recommend hiring a meaty belt sander
for a day or so, unless the floors are really small. It took me about half
a day to sand my office floor, which was a newly laid and pretty even
american utility oak strip t&g of about 2m by 3m. You've *got* to go
through the grades when sanding otherwise you'll either be there forever, or
end up with pronounced sanding marks on the floor.

As for vibration, well mine's OK - it's a pretty solid Metabo 450SXE Duo
sander (the duo bit means you can select the eccentricity of 3mm or 6mm
depending upon whether you want fine finishing or rapid stock removal), but
it still causes quite severe hand tingling and numbness after prolonged use.
Couple of pairs of thick gloves helps reduce this - a lot. At about £150
it's certainly not cheap, I don't know whether the cheaper ones are
noticably worse for vibration. Not many have selectable eccentricity
though.

Any decent ROS shoudl be able to be hooked up to a dust extractor - I use a
slightly heath robinson affair to hook it up to a Henry with the microtex
filter & a bag. It's a lot more efficient sanding when it's used with dust
extraction too - the vacuum helps keep it sucked flat against the workpiece.

--
Richard Sampson

mail me at
richard at olifant d-ot co do-t uk

On Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:46 +0100, "RichardS"
wrote:

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
.. .
Hi,
Anyone know of an orbital sander that is particularly kind to wrist
and finger joints? Mine are getting a wee bit knackered.
Good dust extraction would be helpful too.

I want to sand a couple of small T&G floors The boards are unworn. I
did consider getting a belt sander but it seemed that if I did, I
would need to get an orbital as well. So I thought I'd settle for a
good quality orbital.

On ebay I see that quality belt sanders re-sell for a good price.
Not so with orbitals. maybe it's because belt sanders are closer to
being the ultimate big boy's sanding toy?


Forget Orbital - you want Random Orbital if you're going down that route.
They're hell of a lot more efficient sanding machines and don't leave nearly
as bad scratch patterns on the finished article (these have a habit of being
invisible until you lovingly apply your first coat of finish...).

Thanks for the advice. It's very thorough and convincing and I do
appreciate it but I can feel it bringing on one of me funny turns.

The random orbitals seem to be roundish and I live in a very square
world ( though I continue to plan my escape). So, that'll be a belt
sander, a ROS and a Detail Sander to get into the corners. I'm
wobbling!

I just went into B&Q to scan the range and get some expert advice.
I was told it's velcro backed special paper and disposable cartridges
for the dust filtration now. I also noticed that the sander designs
are being modeled along the same lines as fashion footware.
I might eventually succumb to the pressure to buy a lawnmower shaped
like a chunky trainer on a stick but due to my conditioning,
woodworking tools are sacrosanct, even if purchased from B&Q.

So, sod it, I'm off down to the glaziers in town to get a bucket of
broken glass,. I'll scrape the floor instead. It's a lot less dusty
and noisy. It also makes the old fingers ache in a completely
different way.


What's the material of the floor - ordinary softwood?

Yes, I've just taken the fitted carpet up and I'm to stingy to buy a
new one.

If it's oak or
anything like that then I'd strongly recommend hiring a meaty belt sander
for a day or so, unless the floors are really small. It took me about half
a day to sand my office floor, which was a newly laid and pretty even
american utility oak strip t&g of about 2m by 3m. You've *got* to go
through the grades when sanding otherwise you'll either be there forever, or
end up with pronounced sanding marks on the floor.

As for vibration, well mine's OK - it's a pretty solid Metabo 450SXE Duo
sander (the duo bit means you can select the eccentricity of 3mm or 6mm
depending upon whether you want fine finishing or rapid stock removal), but
it still causes quite severe hand tingling and numbness after prolonged use.
Couple of pairs of thick gloves helps reduce this - a lot. At about £150
it's certainly not cheap, I don't know whether the cheaper ones are
noticably worse for vibration. Not many have selectable eccentricity
though.

Any decent ROS shoudl be able to be hooked up to a dust extractor - I use a
slightly heath robinson affair to hook it up to a Henry with the microtex
filter & a bag. It's a lot more efficient sanding when it's used with dust
extraction too - the vacuum helps keep it sucked flat against the workpiece.

--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:46 +0100, "RichardS"
wrote:

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
.. .
Hi,
Anyone know of an orbital sander that is particularly kind to wrist
and finger joints? Mine are getting a wee bit knackered.
Good dust extraction would be helpful too.

I want to sand a couple of small T&G floors The boards are unworn. I
did consider getting a belt sander but it seemed that if I did, I
would need to get an orbital as well. So I thought I'd settle for a
good quality orbital.

On ebay I see that quality belt sanders re-sell for a good price.
Not so with orbitals. maybe it's because belt sanders are closer to
being the ultimate big boy's sanding toy?


Forget Orbital - you want Random Orbital if you're going down that route.
They're hell of a lot more efficient sanding machines and don't leave
nearly
as bad scratch patterns on the finished article (these have a habit of
being
invisible until you lovingly apply your first coat of finish...).

Thanks for the advice. It's very thorough and convincing and I do
appreciate it but I can feel it bringing on one of me funny turns.

The random orbitals seem to be roundish and I live in a very square
world ( though I continue to plan my escape). So, that'll be a belt
sander, a ROS and a Detail Sander to get into the corners. I'm
wobbling!

I just went into B&Q to scan the range and get some expert advice.
I was told it's velcro backed special paper and disposable cartridges
for the dust filtration now. I also noticed that the sander designs
are being modeled along the same lines as fashion footware.
I might eventually succumb to the pressure to buy a lawnmower shaped
like a chunky trainer on a stick but due to my conditioning,
woodworking tools are sacrosanct, even if purchased from B&Q.

So, sod it, I'm off down to the glaziers in town to get a bucket of
broken glass,. I'll scrape the floor instead. It's a lot less dusty
and noisy. It also makes the old fingers ache in a completely
different way.


What's the material of the floor - ordinary softwood?

Yes, I've just taken the fitted carpet up and I'm to stingy to buy a
new one.

If it's oak or
anything like that then I'd strongly recommend hiring a meaty belt sander
for a day or so, unless the floors are really small. It took me about
half
a day to sand my office floor, which was a newly laid and pretty even
american utility oak strip t&g of about 2m by 3m. You've *got* to go
through the grades when sanding otherwise you'll either be there forever,
or
end up with pronounced sanding marks on the floor.

As for vibration, well mine's OK - it's a pretty solid Metabo 450SXE Duo
sander (the duo bit means you can select the eccentricity of 3mm or 6mm
depending upon whether you want fine finishing or rapid stock removal),
but
it still causes quite severe hand tingling and numbness after prolonged
use.
Couple of pairs of thick gloves helps reduce this - a lot. At about £150
it's certainly not cheap, I don't know whether the cheaper ones are
noticably worse for vibration. Not many have selectable eccentricity
though.

Any decent ROS shoudl be able to be hooked up to a dust extractor - I use
a
slightly heath robinson affair to hook it up to a Henry with the microtex
filter & a bag. It's a lot more efficient sanding when it's used with
dust
extraction too - the vacuum helps keep it sucked flat against the
workpiece.

--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

Bosch Random Orbital sander, the more powerful of the two they make. About
£50
or less, it comes with a dust filter. You will need a detail sander for the
corners. It
will not resurface a floor in the same way an industrial flooring belt
sander would,
but it will take off the discolouration of the surface. I think leaving the
dings in your
floorboards is actually better than taking them right back to pristine wood
anyway, it
leaves them with a bit of character. If you're determined to get as much of
the surface
off as possible, start with 40 grade, otherwise 60 grade will clean the
boards
reasonably well. They do tend to go through the sanding sheets quite fast I
found.

Andy.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 09:02:38 +0100, Mike Halmarack
wrote:

Hi,
Anyone know of an orbital sander that is particularly kind to wrist
and finger joints? Mine are getting a wee bit knackered.
Good dust extraction would be helpful too.

I want to sand a couple of small T&G floors The boards are unworn. I
did consider getting a belt sander but it seemed that if I did, I
would need to get an orbital as well. So I thought I'd settle for a
good quality orbital.

On ebay I see that quality belt sanders re-sell for a good price.
Not so with orbitals. maybe it's because belt sanders are closer to
being the ultimate big boy's sanding toy?


I have just finished sanding a softwood floor using a hired floor
sander(UKP 21+vat /day) for as much as possible and my bosch 40 random
orbital for the edges. The Bosch used a lot of sanding pads and I'm
still not happy with the dirtier look compared to the rest of the
floor. The lowest grit I could find was 40 compared to 24 for the
floor sander. It took me 2 days to do the main floor sander work I
imagine it would have taken weeks with a random orbital hand sander.
Weeks on your knees, with a face mask on, the noise and vibration,
filling the house and your eyes with dust, endlessly swaping sanding
pads and then having a patchy dirty finish you'd always be able to see
through your expensive varnish.

It depends on how much you think your times worth and how clean you
want your floor, but A random orbital sander is not suitable for floor
sanding IMHO.

On Thu, 26 May 2005 05:34:51 GMT, mark d
wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 09:02:38 +0100, Mike Halmarack
wrote:

Hi,
Anyone know of an orbital sander that is particularly kind to wrist
and finger joints? Mine are getting a wee bit knackered.
Good dust extraction would be helpful too.

I want to sand a couple of small T&G floors The boards are unworn. I
did consider getting a belt sander but it seemed that if I did, I
would need to get an orbital as well. So I thought I'd settle for a
good quality orbital.

On ebay I see that quality belt sanders re-sell for a good price.
Not so with orbitals. maybe it's because belt sanders are closer to
being the ultimate big boy's sanding toy?


I have just finished sanding a softwood floor using a hired floor
sander(UKP 21+vat /day) for as much as possible and my bosch 40 random
orbital for the edges. The Bosch used a lot of sanding pads and I'm
still not happy with the dirtier look compared to the rest of the
floor. The lowest grit I could find was 40 compared to 24 for the
floor sander. It took me 2 days to do the main floor sander work I
imagine it would have taken weeks with a random orbital hand sander.
Weeks on your knees, with a face mask on, the noise and vibration,
filling the house and your eyes with dust, endlessly swaping sanding
pads and then having a patchy dirty finish you'd always be able to see
through your expensive varnish.

I had thought that buying some bottles of red wine instead of a sander
was too self indulgent but now you've convinced me that it's the most
sensible solution.

It depends on how much you think your times worth

From the "supply and demand" POV, priceless.

and how clean you want your floor,

It's almost spotlessly clean already, through absolutely no fault of
my own.

but A random orbital sander is not suitable for floor
sanding IMHO.

Very good point.
What's that famous painting called? It's of some french craftsmen
resting part way through scraping a large wooden floor.

--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 19:22:56 +0100, "andrewpreece"
wrote:


"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 25 May 2005 10:30:46 +0100, "RichardS"
wrote:

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
.. .
Hi,
Anyone know of an orbital sander that is particularly kind to wrist
and finger joints? Mine are getting a wee bit knackered.
Good dust extraction would be helpful too.

I want to sand a couple of small T&G floors The boards are unworn. I
did consider getting a belt sander but it seemed that if I did, I
would need to get an orbital as well. So I thought I'd settle for a
good quality orbital.

On ebay I see that quality belt sanders re-sell for a good price.
Not so with orbitals. maybe it's because belt sanders are closer to
being the ultimate big boy's sanding toy?


Forget Orbital - you want Random Orbital if you're going down that route.
They're hell of a lot more efficient sanding machines and don't leave
nearly
as bad scratch patterns on the finished article (these have a habit of
being
invisible until you lovingly apply your first coat of finish...).

Thanks for the advice. It's very thorough and convincing and I do
appreciate it but I can feel it bringing on one of me funny turns.

The random orbitals seem to be roundish and I live in a very square
world ( though I continue to plan my escape). So, that'll be a belt
sander, a ROS and a Detail Sander to get into the corners. I'm
wobbling!

I just went into B&Q to scan the range and get some expert advice.
I was told it's velcro backed special paper and disposable cartridges
for the dust filtration now. I also noticed that the sander designs
are being modeled along the same lines as fashion footware.
I might eventually succumb to the pressure to buy a lawnmower shaped
like a chunky trainer on a stick but due to my conditioning,
woodworking tools are sacrosanct, even if purchased from B&Q.

So, sod it, I'm off down to the glaziers in town to get a bucket of
broken glass,. I'll scrape the floor instead. It's a lot less dusty
and noisy. It also makes the old fingers ache in a completely
different way.


What's the material of the floor - ordinary softwood?

Yes, I've just taken the fitted carpet up and I'm to stingy to buy a
new one.

If it's oak or
anything like that then I'd strongly recommend hiring a meaty belt sander
for a day or so, unless the floors are really small. It took me about
half
a day to sand my office floor, which was a newly laid and pretty even
american utility oak strip t&g of about 2m by 3m. You've *got* to go
through the grades when sanding otherwise you'll either be there forever,
or
end up with pronounced sanding marks on the floor.

As for vibration, well mine's OK - it's a pretty solid Metabo 450SXE Duo
sander (the duo bit means you can select the eccentricity of 3mm or 6mm
depending upon whether you want fine finishing or rapid stock removal),
but
it still causes quite severe hand tingling and numbness after prolonged
use.
Couple of pairs of thick gloves helps reduce this - a lot. At about £150
it's certainly not cheap, I don't know whether the cheaper ones are
noticably worse for vibration. Not many have selectable eccentricity
though.

Any decent ROS shoudl be able to be hooked up to a dust extractor - I use
a
slightly heath robinson affair to hook it up to a Henry with the microtex
filter & a bag. It's a lot more efficient sanding when it's used with
dust
extraction too - the vacuum helps keep it sucked flat against the
workpiece.

--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

Bosch Random Orbital sander, the more powerful of the two they make. About
£50
or less, it comes with a dust filter. You will need a detail sander for the
corners. It
will not resurface a floor in the same way an industrial flooring belt
sander would,
but it will take off the discolouration of the surface. I think leaving the
dings in your
floorboards is actually better than taking them right back to pristine wood
anyway, it
leaves them with a bit of character. If you're determined to get as much of
the surface
off as possible, start with 40 grade, otherwise 60 grade will clean the
boards
reasonably well. They do tend to go through the sanding sheets quite fast I
found.

Andy.

Thanks for that. I think this is how I would do it using a sander, if
less dusty and noisy methods fail.

--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

"Mike Halmarack" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 26 May 2005 05:34:51 GMT, mark d
wrote:

On Wed, 25 May 2005 09:02:38 +0100, Mike Halmarack
wrote:

Hi,
Anyone know of an orbital sander that is particularly kind to wrist
and finger joints? Mine are getting a wee bit knackered.
Good dust extraction would be helpful too.

I want to sand a couple of small T&G floors The boards are unworn. I
did consider getting a belt sander but it seemed that if I did, I
would need to get an orbital as well. So I thought I'd settle for a
good quality orbital.

On ebay I see that quality belt sanders re-sell for a good price.
Not so with orbitals. maybe it's because belt sanders are closer to
being the ultimate big boy's sanding toy?


I have just finished sanding a softwood floor using a hired floor
sander(UKP 21+vat /day) for as much as possible and my bosch 40 random
orbital for the edges. The Bosch used a lot of sanding pads and I'm
still not happy with the dirtier look compared to the rest of the
floor. The lowest grit I could find was 40 compared to 24 for the
floor sander. It took me 2 days to do the main floor sander work I
imagine it would have taken weeks with a random orbital hand sander.
Weeks on your knees, with a face mask on, the noise and vibration,
filling the house and your eyes with dust, endlessly swaping sanding
pads and then having a patchy dirty finish you'd always be able to see
through your expensive varnish.

I had thought that buying some bottles of red wine instead of a sander
was too self indulgent but now you've convinced me that it's the most
sensible solution.

It depends on how much you think your times worth

From the "supply and demand" POV, priceless.

and how clean you want your floor,

It's almost spotlessly clean already, through absolutely no fault of
my own.

but A random orbital sander is not suitable for floor
sanding IMHO.

Very good point.
What's that famous painting called? It's of some french craftsmen
resting part way through scraping a large wooden floor.

I've never heard of scraping a wooden floor clean before! I've used scrapers
on metal of course, I suppose it's just the same thing.

I would largely agree with the previous posters' comment that a random
orbital sander is not suitable for floor sanding, but with the caveat that
that
applies if you have cupped and/or poor condition boards that you want to
get dead flat and looking like they just came out of a planer. I achieved
that
kind of a finish using an industrial belt sander on one room, but was
annoyed
that people who see the floor usually ask where I got the laminate! It is
too
perfect. Hence my use of a random orbital to do my hallway floorboards
this time around. The Random Orbital cleans the muck off what are otherwise
boards in good nick, but leaves that slightly distressed look that people
pay
for nowadays ( achieved in furniture making , I'm told, by beating furniture
with chains, charring areas, and then drilling imitation woodworm holes
in various places ).

Andy

On Fri, 27 May 2005 01:01:27 +0100, "andrewpreece"
wrote:


I've never heard of scraping a wooden floor clean before! I've used scrapers
on metal of course, I suppose it's just the same thing.

The painting showing this activity, which I mentioned earlier is by
Gustave Caillebotte. It's called "The Floorscrapers"
Here's a link:
http://www.texaschapbookpress.com/floorscrapers.htm

They're not resting from the task as I mis-remembered but are actually
busy doing it. There's 3 of them and they have a long way to go.
I think this method works better on hardwood than on the very soft
wood that my floors are made from.

I decided to give my floor a quick once over with my old Bosch orbital
sander, the one without the dust extraction. I did it in 20 minutes
leaving lots of marks and blemishes. Then this morning I gave the
floor its first coat of varnish. The marks and blemishes look even
better varnished.


I would largely agree with the previous posters' comment that a random
orbital sander is not suitable for floor sanding, but with the caveat that
that
applies if you have cupped and/or poor condition boards that you want to
get dead flat and looking like they just came out of a planer. I achieved
that
kind of a finish using an industrial belt sander on one room, but was
annoyed
that people who see the floor usually ask where I got the laminate! It is
too
perfect. Hence my use of a random orbital to do my hallway floorboards
this time around. The Random Orbital cleans the muck off what are otherwise
boards in good nick, but leaves that slightly distressed look that people
pay
for nowadays ( achieved in furniture making , I'm told, by beating furniture
with chains, charring areas, and then drilling imitation woodworm holes
in various places ).

Andy


--
Regards,
Mike Halmarack

Drop the EGG to email me.

Mike Halmarack wrote:
I decided to give my floor a quick once over with my old Bosch orbital
sander, the one without the dust extraction. I did it in 20 minutes
leaving lots of marks and blemishes. Then this morning I gave the
floor its first coat of varnish. The marks and blemishes look even
better varnished.

Worked for me, too - the cement stains where muck had dropped on the
floor from rendering joined the crowd of features to make it look
really nice!