Hello,

I'm interested in what an appropriate response might be to the
following.

Our new central heating sytstem was finished on Friday, and everything
appeared to be working fine.

On Saturday morning we noticed a slight smell of gas in our bedroom
(the new gas suppply pipe passes under the floor and up the wall on
it's way to the boiler).

I looked at the gas meeter, and noiticed that gas was flowing (albeit
very slowly), even when nothing was in use.

So I called the installers and an engineer was duly sent on site.

He discovered a small gas leak in the pipe under the floorboards, which
he duly fixed.

I feel pretty annoyed about this, but in the interests of being a
resonable kind of person, I'm not sure what an appropriate response
should be.

Is this "just one of those things" or should I go and register a CORGI
complaint etc?

Thanks

Robert Haynes.

wrote:
Hello,

I'm interested in what an appropriate response might be to the
following.

Our new central heating sytstem was finished on Friday, and everything
appeared to be working fine.

On Saturday morning we noticed a slight smell of gas in our bedroom
(the new gas suppply pipe passes under the floor and up the wall on
it's way to the boiler).

Do you know if a pressure test was conducted on the gas pipework before
they left?
If not, then it's certainly their fault, and they are not anywhere
close to best practice.
How rapidly did they respond to the leak, and did they give appropriate
advice "turn off at the meter" ?

On 18 Apr 2005 05:10:01 -0700, wrote:

Hello,

I'm interested in what an appropriate response might be to the
following.

Our new central heating sytstem was finished on Friday, and everything
appeared to be working fine.

On Saturday morning we noticed a slight smell of gas in our bedroom
(the new gas suppply pipe passes under the floor and up the wall on
it's way to the boiler).

I looked at the gas meeter, and noiticed that gas was flowing (albeit
very slowly), even when nothing was in use.

So I called the installers and an engineer was duly sent on site.

He discovered a small gas leak in the pipe under the floorboards, which
he duly fixed.

I feel pretty annoyed about this, but in the interests of being a
resonable kind of person, I'm not sure what an appropriate response
should be.

Is this "just one of those things" or should I go and register a CORGI
complaint etc?

Thanks

Robert Haynes.


Definitely. Did you see what he did to fix the problem? Was it to
re-solder a joint on the pipe, or perhaps even to solder it in the
first place?

It is a requirement after the installation of new work to do a gas
soundness test. This consists of

-turning off all the appliances at their isolating valves,

-turning off the main valve,

-connecting a manometer (gauge with water or electronic tester) to a
nipple at the meter

-pressurising the system by turning on the main valve to bring the
pressure up to normal range and shutting off valve

-watching to see if there is any drop in pressure over a given time

With some meter types, a small drop is allowed, but if you could see
the meter running at all and smell gas, then something wasn't done
properly. It could be that the guy put the fittings together with
flux and forgot to solder, but that would be pretty incompetent.

Probably, getting the truth as to what actually happened will be
impossible now, but I would definitely call CORGI and ask for somebody
else to look at the installation.





--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

The leak was fixed by resoldering a joint, as far as I can tell. The
leak weas around an awkward bend to route the gas around some of the
heating supply pipes.

I'm surprised that we haven't heard from the company today.

It is possible for the flux to fill the gap on the joint so that the
pressure test shows no problem and even inspecting the joint does not show a
problem. The fact that they called out to put it right was a plus as some
installers would not even return the call. Is it really necessary to go to
the trouble of calling CORGI ? would it make you feel better? Its all well
and good for people to say yes involve CORGI, HSE etc but the problem is
fixed and surely you must have more important things to do.


wrote in message
oups.com...
The leak was fixed by resoldering a joint, as far as I can tell. The
leak weas around an awkward bend to route the gas around some of the
heating supply pipes.

I'm surprised that we haven't heard from the company today.

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:39:23 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

On 18 Apr 2005 05:10:01 -0700, wrote:

Hello,

I'm interested in what an appropriate response might be to the
following.

Our new central heating sytstem was finished on Friday, and everything
appeared to be working fine.

On Saturday morning we noticed a slight smell of gas in our bedroom
(the new gas suppply pipe passes under the floor and up the wall on
it's way to the boiler).

I looked at the gas meeter, and noiticed that gas was flowing (albeit
very slowly), even when nothing was in use.

So I called the installers and an engineer was duly sent on site.

He discovered a small gas leak in the pipe under the floorboards, which
he duly fixed.

I feel pretty annoyed about this, but in the interests of being a
resonable kind of person, I'm not sure what an appropriate response
should be.

Is this "just one of those things" or should I go and register a CORGI
complaint etc?

Thanks

Robert Haynes.


Definitely. Did you see what he did to fix the problem? Was it to
re-solder a joint on the pipe, or perhaps even to solder it in the
first place?

It is a requirement after the installation of new work to do a gas
soundness test. This consists of

-turning off all the appliances at their isolating valves,

-turning off the main valve,

-connecting a manometer (gauge with water or electronic tester) to a
nipple at the meter

-pressurising the system by turning on the main valve to bring the
pressure up to normal range and shutting off valve

-watching to see if there is any drop in pressure over a given time

With some meter types, a small drop is allowed,

But only with the existing appliances connected and _no smell of gas_
and not for pipework at all let alone new pipe work.

--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

In message , ski
writes
It is possible for the flux to fill the gap on the joint so that the
pressure test shows no problem and even inspecting the joint does not show a
problem. The fact that they called out to put it right was a plus as some
installers would not even return the call. Is it really necessary to go to
the trouble of calling CORGI ? would it make you feel better? Its all well
and good for people to say yes involve CORGI, HSE etc but the problem is
fixed and surely you must have more important things to do.

Apart from the fact that you'd get bugger all response from CORGI other
than a sympathetic letter at best

--
geoff

On 18 Apr 2005 05:10:01 -0700, wrote:

Hello,

I'm interested in what an appropriate response might be to the
following.

Our new central heating sytstem was finished on Friday, and everything
appeared to be working fine.

On Saturday morning we noticed a slight smell of gas in our bedroom
(the new gas suppply pipe passes under the floor and up the wall on
it's way to the boiler).

I looked at the gas meeter, and noiticed that gas was flowing (albeit
very slowly), even when nothing was in use.

So I called the installers and an engineer was duly sent on site.

He discovered a small gas leak in the pipe under the floorboards, which
he duly fixed.

I feel pretty annoyed about this, but in the interests of being a
resonable kind of person, I'm not sure what an appropriate response
should be.

Is this "just one of those things" or should I go and register a CORGI
complaint etc?

What might have happened if you had already planned to leave on Friday
night for a long weekend with relatives? A whole weekend, or longer,
of gas seepage? Wow.

MM

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:55:51 +0000 (UTC), "ski"
wrote:

It is possible for the flux to fill the gap on the joint so that the
pressure test shows no problem and even inspecting the joint does not show a
problem. The fact that they called out to put it right was a plus as some
installers would not even return the call. Is it really necessary to go to
the trouble of calling CORGI ? would it make you feel better? Its all well
and good for people to say yes involve CORGI, HSE etc but the problem is
fixed and surely you must have more important things to do.

And what about potential problems elsewhere in the installation?

MM

"MM" wrote in message
...
On 18 Apr 2005 05:10:01 -0700, wrote:

Hello,

I'm interested in what an appropriate response might be to the
following.

Our new central heating sytstem was finished on Friday, and everything
appeared to be working fine.

On Saturday morning we noticed a slight smell of gas in our bedroom
(the new gas suppply pipe passes under the floor and up the wall on
it's way to the boiler).

I looked at the gas meeter, and noiticed that gas was flowing (albeit
very slowly), even when nothing was in use.

So I called the installers and an engineer was duly sent on site.

He discovered a small gas leak in the pipe under the floorboards, which
he duly fixed.

I feel pretty annoyed about this, but in the interests of being a
resonable kind of person, I'm not sure what an appropriate response
should be.

Is this "just one of those things" or should I go and register a CORGI
complaint etc?

What might have happened if you had already planned to leave on Friday
night for a long weekend with relatives? A whole weekend, or longer,
of gas seepage? Wow.


It's not the fact there was a leaky joint you should complain about
(everyone makes mistakes). Given you noticed the smell the next morning,
this indicates the leak was there from the start and they must have failed
to do a proper leak test on the installed system - this is Very Bad. The
leak test is there to ensure that inadvertent errors are picked up.


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

In article , Bob Mannix wrote:
It's not the fact there was a leaky joint you should complain about
(everyone makes mistakes). Given you noticed the smell the next
morning, this indicates the leak was there from the start and they
must have failed to do a proper leak test on the installed system -
this is Very Bad

As has already been said, I'm not sure that this proves that a
soundness test was not done. We had a central heating system installed
in a rented flat which ran fine for a month then suddenly lost all its
pressure (and left the ceiling below very damp). On investigation it
was a fluxed but not soldered joint, but this had held up to 1 bar
pressure for the period.

--
Tony Bryer SDA UK 'Software to build on' http://www.sda.co.uk
Free SEDBUK boiler database browser http://www.sda.co.uk/qsedbuk.htm
[Latest version QSEDBUK 1.10 released 4 April 2005]

Tony Bryer wrote:
In article , Bob Mannix wrote:
It's not the fact there was a leaky joint you should complain about
(everyone makes mistakes). Given you noticed the smell the next
morning, this indicates the leak was there from the start and they
must have failed to do a proper leak test on the installed system -
this is Very Bad

As has already been said, I'm not sure that this proves that a
soundness test

it's called a *drop test*

occasionally yo get an initial reading that's ok, fine and dandy. then the
customer reports a smell of gas, you go back, do another drop test and
lo and behold there's a leak. ski summed it up nicely, everyone else
pontificating about it probably hasn't actually done 'it' in the field, so to speak.



RT

raden wrote:
In message , ski
writes
It is possible for the flux to fill the gap on the joint so that the
pressure test shows no problem and even inspecting the joint does not show a
problem. The fact that they called out to put it right was a plus as some
installers would not even return the call. Is it really necessary to go to
the trouble of calling CORGI ? would it make you feel better? Its all well
and good for people to say yes involve CORGI, HSE etc but the problem is
fixed and surely you must have more important things to do.

Apart from the fact that you'd get bugger all response from CORGI other
than a sympathetic letter at best

Do CORGI keep records?
Are they likely to notice if "Laughing Gas Fitters" have lots of letters
about them carrying out poor work?

Just to be a pedantic ,
Its not called Soundness testing now its a "Tightness Test"

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:55:51 +0000 (UTC), "ski"
wrote:

It is possible for the flux to fill the gap on the joint so that the
pressure test shows no problem and even inspecting the joint does not show a
problem. The fact that they called out to put it right was a plus as some
installers would not even return the call. Is it really necessary to go to
the trouble of calling CORGI ? would it make you feel better? Its all well
and good for people to say yes involve CORGI, HSE etc but the problem is
fixed and surely you must have more important things to do.



Possibly true, but it's pretty careless to not solder up a joint, and
begs the question of what else might have been neglected....




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:03:18 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Tony Bryer wrote:
In article , Bob Mannix wrote:
It's not the fact there was a leaky joint you should complain about
(everyone makes mistakes). Given you noticed the smell the next
morning, this indicates the leak was there from the start and they
must have failed to do a proper leak test on the installed system -
this is Very Bad

As has already been said, I'm not sure that this proves that a
soundness test

it's called a *drop test*

occasionally yo get an initial reading that's ok, fine and dandy. then the
customer reports a smell of gas, you go back, do another drop test and
lo and behold there's a leak. ski summed it up nicely, everyone else
pontificating about it probably hasn't actually done 'it' in the field, so to speak.

You mean forgotten to solder a joint?

Come on. That's careless, and there's no excuse for it.



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

Andy Hall wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:03:18 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Tony Bryer wrote:
In article , Bob Mannix wrote:
It's not the fact there was a leaky joint you should complain about
(everyone makes mistakes). Given you noticed the smell the next
morning, this indicates the leak was there from the start and they
must have failed to do a proper leak test on the installed system -
this is Very Bad

As has already been said, I'm not sure that this proves that a
soundness test

it's called a *drop test*

occasionally yo get an initial reading that's ok, fine and dandy. then the
customer reports a smell of gas, you go back, do another drop test and
lo and behold there's a leak. ski summed it up nicely, everyone else
pontificating about it probably hasn't actually done 'it' in the field, so to speak.

You mean forgotten to solder a joint?

perhaps just one mil of one joint didn't solder. the bloke came back and sorted it.

you're attempting to gain some sort of leverage out of it ?

Come on. That's careless, and there's no excuse for it.

tell me, what do you do for a living, have you /ever/ installaed a CH system,
have you ever done a drop test, do you even own a maonometer ?


RT

In message , "[news]"
writes

You mean forgotten to solder a joint?

perhaps just one mil of one joint didn't solder. the bloke came back
and sorted it.

you're attempting to gain some sort of leverage out of it ?

Come on. That's careless, and there's no excuse for it.

tell me, what do you do for a living, have you /ever/ installaed a CH system,
have you ever done a drop test, do you even own a maonometer ?

Well I have

The only solder joint which wasn't sound was one done by BG to install a
cooker while I was in Germany

Yesterday's anecdote ...

I sold a customer a turbomax pcb, same problem with the boiler as
before, so the customer put me across to the fitter to try and guide him
in diagnosing the fault.

"yes, I'm getting volts on the primary of the transformer, but the
screwdriver isn't glowing on the secondary (20 volts AC), so I think the
transformer must have died"

CORGI ... dontcha luv 'em ?

--
geoff

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:09:24 GMT, "[news]" wrote:



occasionally yo get an initial reading that's ok, fine and dandy. then the
customer reports a smell of gas, you go back, do another drop test and
lo and behold there's a leak. ski summed it up nicely, everyone else
pontificating about it probably hasn't actually done 'it' in the field, so to speak.

You mean forgotten to solder a joint?

perhaps just one mil of one joint didn't solder. the bloke came back and sorted it.

you're attempting to gain some sort of leverage out of it ?

The issue shouldn't have arisen in the first place. Everybody can
make mistakes, that's understood, but this one is just careless.
Sometimes it's necessary when doing pipework to have several fittings
prepared, fluxed and assembled and then to make all joints together
with the blow torch - however if that is done, then even more care
should be taken. If joints are being made individually, then each
should be heated and completed.

Perhaps the guy wasn't concentrating, was tired, hungover or had had a
row with the wife - who knows. If he wasn't able to do the job
properly then he shouldn't have been at work. THe consequences are
too serious.

We are told by CORGI about their members being all about "gas in safe
hands". Fine - I am sure that in almost all cases it is.

However, here something has gone seriously wrong. If they want to be
policeman of the industry then they should be asked to do their job
and find out what went wrong so that the chances of it happening
elsewhere are reduced. Clearly they can't inspect every piece of work
that every fitter does, and most only have a few pieces inspected per
year, but when something like this happens, it should trigger an
investigation of the particular job involved and perhaps of a few more
done by that particular fitter.

There's no point in having a policing and inspection scheme if it
isn't used.



Come on. That's careless, and there's no excuse for it.

tell me, what do you do for a living,

I'm an engineer.

have you /ever/ installaed a CH system,

Yes, several.


have you ever done a drop test,

Of course. I also do one at least once a year when the boiler is
serviced as a commonsense safety check.


do you even own a maonometer ?

Yes, a water one and a digital one.

I also have a flue gas analyser.


Your next question was?



--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:09:24 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Andy Hall wrote:
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:03:18 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Tony Bryer wrote:
In article , Bob Mannix wrote:
It's not the fact there was a leaky joint you should complain about
(everyone makes mistakes). Given you noticed the smell the next
morning, this indicates the leak was there from the start and they
must have failed to do a proper leak test on the installed system -
this is Very Bad

As has already been said, I'm not sure that this proves that a
soundness test

it's called a *drop test*

occasionally yo get an initial reading that's ok, fine and dandy. then the
customer reports a smell of gas, you go back, do another drop test and
lo and behold there's a leak. ski summed it up nicely, everyone else
pontificating about it probably hasn't actually done 'it' in the field, so to speak.

You mean forgotten to solder a joint?

perhaps just one mil of one joint didn't solder. the bloke came back and sorted it.

you're attempting to gain some sort of leverage out of it ?

Come on. That's careless, and there's no excuse for it.

tell me, what do you do for a living, have you /ever/ installaed a CH system,
have you ever done a drop test, do you even own a maonometer ?

In my view, this is just the kind of 'suck it and see' attitude that
gives Britain such a bad name where tradesmen are concerned and allows
those TV proggies to be made where cowboys are caught out.

Any doubt where gas is concerned (ever seen a street after a gas
explosion?) is one doubt too many.

MM

"Tony Bryer" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob Mannix wrote:
It's not the fact there was a leaky joint you should complain about
(everyone makes mistakes). Given you noticed the smell the next
morning, this indicates the leak was there from the start and they
must have failed to do a proper leak test on the installed system -
this is Very Bad

As has already been said, I'm not sure that this proves that a
soundness test was not done. We had a central heating system installed
in a rented flat which ran fine for a month then suddenly lost all its
pressure (and left the ceiling below very damp). On investigation it
was a fluxed but not soldered joint, but this had held up to 1 bar
pressure for the period.


Well I said "indicate" not "prove". Also the leak was detected within 12
hours not one month.

There may be occasions where the leak test is passed and a leak then
immediately starts, if so, yes it's one of those things and they come back
and fix it and it doesn't indicate a cowboy. I felt in this case there was a
distinct possibility that the leak test hadn't been performed and that, if
so, this was the crime. I have installed CH systems (aside from the gas) and
had one leak, yes.

A leak test doesn't indicate safety, in any case. I had my meter moved and
the leak test passed OK. The "engineer" (BG, Corgi and Bar etc) was then
asked (by me) "what about the fire in the front room and air in the pipe?".
"Oh, that'll be OK" he said and b*ggered off. I went to the front room, lit
the fire and watched it. It promptly went out, as the air came through, then
started issuing gas. Didn't affect me (other than making me cross) but the
previous occupant of the house was an elderly lady who might have lit the
fire and gone off to make a cupof tea. For balance, I should say that a
subsequent "engineer" (BG, Corgi etc) for another job was very good.

--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 123 - not)

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:21:02 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

Your next question was?

I don't think it was a serious question, but an attempt to win back
some 'face' in the knowledge that this practice is unconscionable, but
not having the bottle to admit as much.

But this is a 'don't care', sloppy attitude that is pretty common in
Britain. In Germany, where I lived for many years, all tradesman have
to have recognised qualifications. Many kids leaving school there but
not wanting to go to university take up an apprenticeship (Lehre) and
the German government and German industry are totally geared up for
this further education alternative.

In Britain? Well, I know the government is trying to reintroduce
apprenticeships, but are they equivalent to the seven years I did or
the five years many other hundreds of thousands of lads in the 1950s
and 60s completed? I have to wonder about that.

Perhaps this lack of professionalism lies at the heart of Rover's
troubles, coupled with short-termism by businesses which simply refuse
to invest in the future in preference to creaming off profit right
now. Quality workmanship in this country can go hang. But it's the
only thing we have to offer, since third-world productivity will
always beat us on cost. Britain is capable of producing goods and
services of the highest quality, if only the will were there.

MM

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:38:17 +0100, B Thumbs wrote:

On 19 Apr,
"Bob Mannix" wrote:


It's not the fact there was a leaky joint you should complain about
(everyone makes mistakes). Given you noticed the smell the next morning,
this indicates the leak was there from the start and they must have failed
to do a proper leak test on the installed system - this is Very Bad. The
leak test is there to ensure that inadvertent errors are picked up.


The worst gas leak I had was when BG pronounced my meter faulty (the house
had been empty for 6 months) and insisted on changing the meter (whilst I was
out) The fibre washer on the meter connection was fractured, resulting in a
knockout smell of gas when I returned. Obviously no pressure test had been
done.

Was the electricity still on? Could someone have flicked a switch?

MM

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:24:27 +0100, MM wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:21:02 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

Your next question was?

I don't think it was a serious question, but an attempt to win back
some 'face' in the knowledge that this practice is unconscionable, but
not having the bottle to admit as much.

But this is a 'don't care', sloppy attitude that is pretty common in
Britain. In Germany, where I lived for many years, all tradesman have
to have recognised qualifications. Many kids leaving school there but
not wanting to go to university take up an apprenticeship (Lehre) and
the German government and German industry are totally geared up for
this further education alternative.

True, although I have to wonder about the long term viability of the
cost base for said industry that is implied.



In Britain? Well, I know the government is trying to reintroduce
apprenticeships, but are they equivalent to the seven years I did or
the five years many other hundreds of thousands of lads in the 1950s
and 60s completed? I have to wonder about that.

I smell short change and lowering of standards all around in order to
make it easier to get more school leavers into post-16 education or
training of some kind.

Perhaps this lack of professionalism lies at the heart of Rover's
troubles, coupled with short-termism by businesses which simply refuse
to invest in the future in preference to creaming off profit right
now.

In Rover's case I think it's a combination of this, a lack of
investment and a hang-over from the culture of the past.

The reality is that as a business and as a culture, it was untenable
30 years ago and has limped from crisis to crisis with nobody having
the bottle to put it out of its misery because it was too much of a
political hot potato.


Quality workmanship in this country can go hang. But it's the
only thing we have to offer, since third-world productivity will
always beat us on cost. Britain is capable of producing goods and
services of the highest quality, if only the will were there.

.... and the will on the part of customers to pay rather than just
buying on price alone.




--

..andy

To email, substitute .nospam with .gl

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:58:30 +0100, MM wrote:

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 16:55:51 +0000 (UTC), "ski"
wrote:

It is possible for the flux to fill the gap on the joint so that the
pressure test shows no problem and even inspecting the joint does not show a
problem. The fact that they called out to put it right was a plus as some
installers would not even return the call. Is it really necessary to go to
the trouble of calling CORGI ? would it make you feel better? Its all well
and good for people to say yes involve CORGI, HSE etc but the problem is
fixed and surely you must have more important things to do.

And what about potential problems elsewhere in the installation?

For this reason CORGI now investigate complaints about heating
installations in general (eg. radiators not getting hot enough). This is
because such investigations often uncover irregularities concerning the
gas fitting aspects of the job.



--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:52:15 +0100, Andy Hall wrote:

On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:03:18 GMT, "[news]" wrote:

Tony Bryer wrote:
In article , Bob Mannix wrote:
It's not the fact there was a leaky joint you should complain about
(everyone makes mistakes). Given you noticed the smell the next
morning, this indicates the leak was there from the start and they
must have failed to do a proper leak test on the installed system -
this is Very Bad

As has already been said, I'm not sure that this proves that a
soundness test

it's called a *drop test*

occasionally yo get an initial reading that's ok, fine and dandy. then the
customer reports a smell of gas, you go back, do another drop test and
lo and behold there's a leak. ski summed it up nicely, everyone else
pontificating about it probably hasn't actually done 'it' in the field, so to speak.

You mean forgotten to solder a joint?

Come on. That's careless, and there's no excuse for it.

Although I've never forgotten to solder up a joint I did have an
unfortunate experience like this once.

I soldered up a 28mm gas supply. I believed the solder had run around the
fitting (it certainly had over the 90% that was visible), the pipe work
passed a standard tightness test.
The next week the customer complained about a smell of gas so I was around
pronto. Turned out the joint had started leaking a little and off course
it now failed the drop test. In fairness to myself I'd say the location
was quite awkward but it highlights the point of using a dental mirror to
inspect the joints. In this case getting a mirror behind would
have been hard (which is probably why the solder didn't take). However the
lesson is always that you _will_ make time to put mistakes right so you
might as well check things very carefully to begin with.


--
Ed Sirett - Property maintainer and registered gas fitter.
The FAQ for uk.diy is at http://www.diyfaq.org.uk
Gas fitting FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/GasFitting.html
Sealed CH FAQ http://www.makewrite.demon.co.uk/SealedCH.html

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:28:40 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:24:27 +0100, MM wrote:

On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:21:02 +0100, Andy Hall
wrote:

Your next question was?

I don't think it was a serious question, but an attempt to win back
some 'face' in the knowledge that this practice is unconscionable, but
not having the bottle to admit as much.

But this is a 'don't care', sloppy attitude that is pretty common in
Britain. In Germany, where I lived for many years, all tradesman have
to have recognised qualifications. Many kids leaving school there but
not wanting to go to university take up an apprenticeship (Lehre) and
the German government and German industry are totally geared up for
this further education alternative.

True, although I have to wonder about the long term viability of the
cost base for said industry that is implied.



In Britain? Well, I know the government is trying to reintroduce
apprenticeships, but are they equivalent to the seven years I did or
the five years many other hundreds of thousands of lads in the 1950s
and 60s completed? I have to wonder about that.

I smell short change and lowering of standards all around in order to
make it easier to get more school leavers into post-16 education or
training of some kind.

Perhaps this lack of professionalism lies at the heart of Rover's
troubles, coupled with short-termism by businesses which simply refuse
to invest in the future in preference to creaming off profit right
now.

In Rover's case I think it's a combination of this, a lack of
investment and a hang-over from the culture of the past.

The reality is that as a business and as a culture, it was untenable
30 years ago and has limped from crisis to crisis with nobody having
the bottle to put it out of its misery because it was too much of a
political hot potato.


Quality workmanship in this country can go hang. But it's the
only thing we have to offer, since third-world productivity will
always beat us on cost. Britain is capable of producing goods and
services of the highest quality, if only the will were there.

... and the will on the part of customers to pay rather than just
buying on price alone.

But there always seems to be enough people who buy BMW, Merc etc.

MM