We have a door leading from the kitchen to a utility room and thence to the
back garden. It is probably the most used door in the house.
This door is steel framed with individual leaded lights. The problem is
that as cats & dogs return from the garden they batter at the door to be
let in. This has ripped the lead flashings away and the door is now
becoming unsafe.
I'm thinking of removing the lower glazed part (approx. 550 x 1350mm) and
replacing with a single sheet of some clear plastic type material. The
upper glazing is a single sheet of glass of similar dimensions so what I
propose should not be out of character.

I'm thinking of using Makrolon / Lexan (don't know the difference but
suspect Makrolon is a trade name).
Would this be suitable, or can anyone suggest a better alternative?
Thickness would be 10-13mm. Must be clear, *reasonably* unbreakable, and
hopefully scratchproof.
I would intend to fix it by bedding into silicone and c'sunk machine screws
at 100mm centres.
Any ideas or alternatives please? Also any links to suppliers?

Many thanks

Nick.

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:59:19 +0100, "Nick" wrote:


I'm thinking of using Makrolon / Lexan (don't know the difference but
suspect Makrolon is a trade name).
Would this be suitable, or can anyone suggest a better alternative?
Thickness would be 10-13mm.

Wow.

Must be clear,

It would be that, initially.

*reasonably* unbreakable,

It would be easier to get through the wall than 13mm of Polycarbonate
(Both Makrolon and Lexan are trade names). The door and frame and
surrounding brickwork would give way first. In fact most of the
house would be gone before the Polycarbonate.

and hopefully scratchproof.

Not a hope, neither are at all scratch proof and will mark quite
quickly. Both have abrasion resistant versions but they won't stay
glass clear for long. Makrolon Hygard is a
polycarbonate/polyurethane laminate with a hard coating and may stay
clearer longer. 13mm of it might be mildly expensive but would have
the advantage that it will stop most handgun bullets if needed!

I would intend to fix it by bedding into silicone and c'sunk machine screws
at 100mm centres.

Polycarbonate expands quite a lot when heated. You would need to
allow for expansion to avoid distorting the door.

Any ideas or alternatives please?

Laminated glass?

--
Peter Parry.
http://www.wpp.ltd.uk/

In message , Nick
writes
We have a door leading from the kitchen to a utility room and thence to the
back garden. It is probably the most used door in the house.
This door is steel framed with individual leaded lights. The problem is
that as cats & dogs return from the garden they batter at the door to be
let in. This has ripped the lead flashings away and the door is now
becoming unsafe.
I'm thinking of removing the lower glazed part (approx. 550 x 1350mm) and
replacing with a single sheet of some clear plastic type material. The
upper glazing is a single sheet of glass of similar dimensions so what I
propose should not be out of character.

I'm thinking of using Makrolon / Lexan (don't know the difference but
suspect Makrolon is a trade name).
Would this be suitable, or can anyone suggest a better alternative?
Thickness would be 10-13mm. Must be clear, *reasonably* unbreakable, and
hopefully scratchproof.
I would intend to fix it by bedding into silicone and c'sunk machine screws
at 100mm centres.
Any ideas or alternatives please? Also any links to suppliers?

Many thanks

Nick.


I have a security issue with a ground floor flat and my builder has
suggested new laminated double glazed glass for the patio door and
adjacent windows - he tells me that the frames and brickwork will give
way before the glass.

He described it as a piece of "plastic glass" sandwiched between two
normal sheets of glass - presumably as scratch proof as normal glass?

--
Richard Faulkner

"Richard Faulkner" wrote in message
...
In message , Nick
writes
We have a door leading from the kitchen to a utility room and thence to
the
back garden. It is probably the most used door in the house.
This door is steel framed with individual leaded lights. The problem is
that as cats & dogs return from the garden they batter at the door to be
let in. This has ripped the lead flashings away and the door is now
becoming unsafe.
I'm thinking of removing the lower glazed part (approx. 550 x 1350mm) and
replacing with a single sheet of some clear plastic type material. The
upper glazing is a single sheet of glass of similar dimensions so what I
propose should not be out of character.

I'm thinking of using Makrolon / Lexan (don't know the difference but
suspect Makrolon is a trade name).
Would this be suitable, or can anyone suggest a better alternative?
Thickness would be 10-13mm. Must be clear, *reasonably* unbreakable, and
hopefully scratchproof.
I would intend to fix it by bedding into silicone and c'sunk machine
screws
at 100mm centres.
Any ideas or alternatives please? Also any links to suppliers?

Many thanks

Nick.


I have a security issue with a ground floor flat and my builder has
suggested new laminated double glazed glass for the patio door and
adjacent windows - he tells me that the frames and brickwork will give
way before the glass.

He described it as a piece of "plastic glass" sandwiched between two
normal sheets of glass - presumably as scratch proof as normal glass?

It is normal glass (two sheets of it making a sandwich with a plastic sheet
filler between them). It is recommended for patio doors where there are
football kickers in the garden etc. (they have to be toughened or
laminated). My patio door double glazed units are laminated on the outside
and toughened inside.

They fail (if at all) fairly benignly. Mine developed a crack at the edge
and had to be replaced. A toughened sheet would have shattered. This stayed
secure and was merely unsightly as the crack slowly lengthened.

It depends how you attack them, I guess but I would agree a laminated patio
door unit is not going to be the weakest point in the house.

To cut laminated glass, one side is scored and cracked and a strip of meths
run along the crack and ignited. The heat softens the plastic so the gap can
be opened up enough to get a blade in to cut the plastic. The other sheet
can then be snapped along the line. (I watched it being done once).


--
Bob Mannix
(anti-spam is as easy as 1-2-3 - not)

In article , Richard Faulkner
writes
I have a security issue with a ground floor flat and my builder has
suggested new laminated double glazed glass for the patio door and
adjacent windows - he tells me that the frames and brickwork will give
way before the glass.
If it's a large pane (half door panel & up) then he is being a tad over
optimistic. There is a failure mode (which I won't describe) which makes
standard (6.4mm) laminate less than perfect. If you are getting super thick
stuff or a multi-layered sandwich then things get better. The risks can be
reduced if you install the panes with security glazing tape which is 2mm or
so dense foam strip with a high strength adhesive both sides.

I'll be from my comp for a while so won't be able to respond to any replies
but I discussed this with Andy Hall in an old thread when he was doing
something similar, google, or he may step in to say how he got on.

HTH
--
fred

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:59:19 +0100, Nick wrote:

snip

I'm thinking of removing the lower glazed part (approx. 550 x 1350mm) and
replacing with a single sheet of some clear plastic type material. The
upper glazing is a single sheet of glass of similar dimensions so what I
propose should not be out of character.

I'm thinking of using Makrolon / Lexan (don't know the difference but
suspect Makrolon is a trade name).
Would this be suitable, or can anyone suggest a better alternative?
Thickness would be 10-13mm. Must be clear, *reasonably* unbreakable, and
hopefully scratchproof.

Is the amount of light an issue? You are saying it must be clear, but why
not just use a suitable exterior grade ply panel? Half-glazed doors are
very common.



--
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

"Peter Parry" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:59:19 +0100, "Nick" wrote:


I'm thinking of using Makrolon / Lexan (don't know the difference but
suspect Makrolon is a trade name).
Would this be suitable, or can anyone suggest a better alternative?
Thickness would be 10-13mm.

Wow.

Must be clear,

It would be that, initially.

*reasonably* unbreakable,

It would be easier to get through the wall than 13mm of Polycarbonate
(Both Makrolon and Lexan are trade names). The door and frame and
surrounding brickwork would give way first. In fact most of the
house would be gone before the Polycarbonate.

and hopefully scratchproof.

Not a hope, neither are at all scratch proof and will mark quite
quickly. Both have abrasion resistant versions but they won't stay
glass clear for long. Makrolon Hygard is a
polycarbonate/polyurethane laminate with a hard coating and may stay
clearer longer. 13mm of it might be mildly expensive but would have
the advantage that it will stop most handgun bullets if needed!

I would intend to fix it by bedding into silicone and c'sunk machine
screws
at 100mm centres.

Polycarbonate expands quite a lot when heated. You would need to
allow for expansion to avoid distorting the door.

Any ideas or alternatives please?

Laminated glass?

--
Peter Parry.

Many thanks Peter,
one lives & learns.
I didn't want to use glass but it appears that may be the best option.
Mildly expensive is perhaps something of an understatement
Nick.

snip
Is the amount of light an issue? You are saying it must be clear, but why
not just use a suitable exterior grade ply panel? Half-glazed doors are
very common.

Thanks Wanderer,
ingress of natural light is a very major concern.
Nick.

Nick wrote:
snip
Is the amount of light an issue? You are saying it must be clear,
but why
not just use a suitable exterior grade ply panel? Half-glazed doors
are
very common.

Thanks Wanderer,
ingress of natural light is a very major concern.
Nick.

unless you tell us what the problem is with glass, i dont see how we
can help. I'd use laminated or better toughened. Both are burglar
reistant, but neither burglar proof, and certainly will give way before
frames, walls, etc.


NT

Nick wrote:
We have a door leading from the kitchen to a utility room and thence
to the back garden. It is probably the most used door in the house.
This door is steel framed with individual leaded lights. The problem
is that as cats & dogs return from the garden they batter at the door
to be let in. This has ripped the lead flashings away and the door is
now becoming unsafe.
I'm thinking of removing the lower glazed part (approx. 550 x 1350mm)
and replacing with a single sheet of some clear plastic type
material. The upper glazing is a single sheet of glass of similar
dimensions so what I propose should not be out of character.

I'm thinking of using Makrolon / Lexan (don't know the difference but
suspect Makrolon is a trade name).
Would this be suitable, or can anyone suggest a better alternative?
Thickness would be 10-13mm. Must be clear, *reasonably* unbreakable,
and hopefully scratchproof.
I would intend to fix it by bedding into silicone and c'sunk machine
screws at 100mm centres.
Any ideas or alternatives please? Also any links to suppliers?

Many thanks

Nick.

Brett Martin do exactly what you want but I dont know how small an order
they will take.

http://www.brettmartin.co.uk/index.aspx

--
ThePunisher
Latitude: 54.67N
Longitude: 5.96W