Cliff wrote:

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:10:54 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

Oh, jeez, Jon, you're turning into a stuffy old fart.

Well, China is installing three times as many elevators each
year as anyone else in the world.

err, aren't thos Otis Elevators anyway?

Well, China is installing three times as many elevators each
year as anyone else in the world.

err, aren't thos Otis Elevators anyway?

Nope- mostly China - Schlinder a joint venture wisely set up by Schindler
over 20 years ago as a long term investment in selling to China, while Otis
failed to see the potential market.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:57:22 +1100, the renowned Terry Collins
wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:10:54 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

Oh, jeez, Jon, you're turning into a stuffy old fart.

Well, China is installing three times as many elevators each
year as anyone else in the world.

err, aren't thos Otis Elevators anyway?

Some others. Schindler, for example. Schindler's lift? (sorry)


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Ahernwill wrote:


Well, China is installing three times as many elevators each
year as anyone else in the world.

err, aren't thos Otis Elevators anyway?

Nope- mostly China - Schlinder a joint venture wisely set up by Schindler
over 20 years ago as a long term investment in selling to China, while Otis
failed to see the potential market.

Hmm, I was told that Otis had shipped manufacture (for Australia) to
China.
Just means another local work opportunity had closed down.

The only new opportunites are driving forklifts and unload containers of
stuff from overseas.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:57:22 +1100, Terry Collins
wrote:

Cliff wrote:

On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 23:10:54 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

Oh, jeez, Jon, you're turning into a stuffy old fart.

Well, China is installing three times as many elevators each
year as anyone else in the world.

err, aren't thos Otis Elevators anyway?

UTC seems to be doing quite a bit of business.
--
Cliff

"Terry Collins" wrote in message

Hmm, I was told that Otis had shipped manufacture (for Australia) to
China.
Just means another local work opportunity had closed down.

The only new opportunites are driving forklifts and unload containers of
stuff from overseas.

Both decent paying jobs with good bennies.

Ahernwill wrote:

Both decent paying jobs with good bennies.

Not in Australia. Most of it is "casual". No long term or significant
money-in-hand benefit. Best advantage is that you only need a 3 day's of
training and you can collect as much as some tradespeople (without the
four year apprenticeship).

Worst part is that you can not get the jobs directly as most of these
companies only hire through body shop (so 50+% of what they pay goes to
body shop).

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is an
assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/ container
unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created. Australia is a
whole different ball game.

"Terry Collins" wrote in message
...
Ahernwill wrote:

Both decent paying jobs with good bennies.

Not in Australia. Most of it is "casual". No long term or significant
money-in-hand benefit. Best advantage is that you only need a 3 day's of
training and you can collect as much as some tradespeople (without the
four year apprenticeship).

Worst part is that you can not get the jobs directly as most of these
companies only hire through body shop (so 50+% of what they pay goes to
body shop).

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:14:26 GMT, the renowned "Ahernwill"
wrote:

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is an
assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/ container
unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created. Australia is a
whole different ball game.

They'd have to be working awfully slow unloading those containers for
it to be a 1:1 swap.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Ahernwill wrote:

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is an
assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/ container
unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created.

At the risk of ****ing a lot of people off, that last bit about one job
out and another job is is the greatest load of piffle I've heard to
date.

The word is "efficency" and new jobs have to be so much more efficent
(produce more for labour input ) than old jobs, otherwise, new jobs
would not be created.

Of course you must buy the forklifts somewhere, and someone must do the
repairs and supply the fuel and parts etc.etc.etc.
"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:14:26 GMT, the renowned "Ahernwill"
wrote:

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is an
assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/
container
unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created. Australia is a
whole different ball game.

They'd have to be working awfully slow unloading those containers for
it to be a 1:1 swap.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers:
http://www.speff.com

Speaking of piffle, the word is that the Bath Iron works- an old American
maritime institution will now outsource its shipbuilding to Australia!! Bet
you won't hear any whining about that from down under.

..com.au wrote in message ...
Ahernwill wrote:

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is
an
assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/
container
unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created.

At the risk of ****ing a lot of people off, that last bit about one job
out and another job is is the greatest load of piffle I've heard to
date.

The word is "efficency" and new jobs have to be so much more efficent
(produce more for labour input ) than old jobs, otherwise, new jobs
would not be created.

Ahernwill wrote:

Speaking of piffle, the word is that the Bath Iron works- an old American
maritime institution will now outsource its shipbuilding to Australia!! Bet
you won't hear any whining about that from down under.

Not on their web pages yet.
Which yard in australia?

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:13:08 +1100, Terry Collins
wrote:

Ahernwill wrote:

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is an
assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/ container
unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created.

At the risk of ****ing a lot of people off, that last bit about one job
out and another job is is the greatest load of piffle I've heard to
date.

The word is "efficency" and new jobs have to be so much more efficent
(produce more for labour input ) than old jobs, otherwise, new jobs
would not be created.

How many total manhours go into producing a car, from raw
materials to final shipping? Including design?
How many into unloading a container load equivalent from
a ship?
What are you planning to make to trade for those containerloads?
Right now, it seems to be scrap paper, scrap iron & "scrap"
machines, ...

It has to balance in the long run.
--
Cliff

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:49:11 GMT, "Ahernwill"
wrote:

Speaking of piffle, the word is that the Bath Iron works- an old American
maritime institution

The oldest shipyard in the US.
They built some of the first "Yankee Clippers".

They are now a division of General Dynamics, BTW.

will now outsource its shipbuilding to Australia!!

Where did you hear that? And where in Australia?
Not well known for shipbuilding IIRC.

Bet
you won't hear any whining about that from down under.

It's just got to be warmer in the winter than Bath or Brunswick, ME.

But I suspect a problem as their current product line
is AEGIS Guided missile destroyers for the US Navy.

Not that I'd mind working again for BIW or in Ausralia again G.

BTW, Last I knew they used ComputerVision as their major
CAD/CAM system.
--
Cliff

In article , says...
Ahernwill wrote:

Speaking of piffle, the word is that the Bath Iron works- an old American
maritime institution will now outsource its shipbuilding to Australia!! Bet
you won't hear any whining about that from down under.

Not on their web pages yet.
Which yard in australia?


If it's the project I'm thinking of - the Littoral Combat Ship - it's a
collaboration between BIW and an Australian owned shipyard in Alabama.
AFAIK US warships must be built in the US, otherwise BIW and Ingalls
Shpbuilding would likely be long gone.

BIW did outsource the construction of a floating drydock to China a few
years ago. Talking to some of the guys who worked on commissioning it
put me in mind of the stories about Chinese lathe "kits".

Ned Simmons

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:14:15 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

If it's the project I'm thinking of - the Littoral Combat Ship - it's a
collaboration between BIW and an Australian owned shipyard in Alabama.

Must be new. Alabama has little shoreline on the Gulf andI don't
recall any large shipyards in Moblie (though there are some smaller
ones the do some repairs & suchlike). Could be way up the Mobile River
though.
http://members.aol.com/americacruising/alabama.html

AFAIK US warships must be built in the US, otherwise BIW and Ingalls
Shpbuilding would likely be long gone.

Quite a few others too.

BIW did outsource the construction of a floating drydock to China a few
years ago. Talking to some of the guys who worked on commissioning it
put me in mind of the stories about Chinese lathe "kits".
--
Cliff

I have never heard of cars being mass shipped in containers! Most of the
Japanese car companies use special roll on/roll off car carriers. Those
ships can be loaded, and unloaded incredibly fast.

Steve R.


"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:14:26 GMT, the renowned "Ahernwill"
wrote:

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is an
assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/ container
unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created. Australia is a
whole different ball game.

They'd have to be working awfully slow unloading those containers for
it to be a 1:1 swap.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers:
http://www.speff.com

In article ,
says...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:14:15 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

If it's the project I'm thinking of - the Littoral Combat Ship - it's a
collaboration between BIW and an Australian owned shipyard in Alabama.

Must be new. Alabama has little shoreline on the Gulf andI don't
recall any large shipyards in Moblie (though there are some smaller
ones the do some repairs & suchlike). Could be way up the Mobile River
though.
http://members.aol.com/americacruising/alabama.html

I assume this is the ship:
http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIV/MMIVMay28b.html

Your right, Alabama has only about 53 miles of coastline on the Gulf.
The town I live in, Harpswell ME, is only 24 sq miles, but has between
150 and 216 miles of coastline, depending on who you ask.


Ned Simmons

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 00:30:32 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 19:14:15 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

If it's the project I'm thinking of - the Littoral Combat Ship - it's a
collaboration between BIW and an Australian owned shipyard in Alabama.

Must be new. Alabama has little shoreline on the Gulf andI don't
recall any large shipyards in Moblie (though there are some smaller
ones the do some repairs & suchlike). Could be way up the Mobile River
though.
http://members.aol.com/americacruising/alabama.html

I assume this is the ship:
http://www.marinelog.com/DOCS/NEWSMMIV/MMIVMay28b.html

Still in the planning & design stages. Looks like Austal is doing
some of it; fairly typical for the business. Contracts get spread all
over.

Your right, Alabama has only about 53 miles of coastline on the Gulf.
The town I live in, Harpswell ME, is only 24 sq miles, but has between
150 and 216 miles of coastline, depending on who you ask.

[
Austal's yard in Mobile, Alabama, established in partnership with
Bender Shipbuilding & Repair, delivers a new dimension in high-speed
marine transport, utilising the company's leading edge technology and
design capabilities, not previously available to US customers.

A comprehensive assembly hall 110 metres (360 feet) x 28 metres (93
feet) and the waterfront location on the banks of the Mobile River
allows for considerable expansion in the near term.
]

Bender is one of those repair yards on the Mobile riverI mentioned,
a few blocks South of Government IIRC.


http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...te=AL&zipcode=

US 32/ US 45 as shown there is Government on the West side of
Mobile bay. Bankhead tunnel under the ship channel/Mobile river.
The other main road thing is I-10.
--
Cliff

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:17:32 -0800, the renowned "Steve R."
wrote:

I have never heard of cars being mass shipped in containers! Most of the
Japanese car companies use special roll on/roll off car carriers. Those
ships can be loaded, and unloaded incredibly fast.

Steve R.

Yeah, I know. They use containers to ship the kit parts for Honda's
plant in Alliston ON, though. It's only sort-of manufacturing.

"Spehro Pefhany" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 13:14:26 GMT, the renowned "Ahernwill"
wrote:

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is an
assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/ container
unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created. Australia is a
whole different ball game.

They'd have to be working awfully slow unloading those containers for
it to be a 1:1 swap.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers:
http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers:
http://www.speff.com



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Of course the people who wring their hands over the exporting of jobs are
usually those who belong to that vast labor pool who rely on entrepeneurs to
create industries and then hire people to build the products. You seldom
hear of a neurosurgeon complaining that his job was exported. The brutal
fact is that if you are part of this labor pool, you must fend for yourself
by finding some way to increase your value or simply stand by and cry as
your job disappears. There is nothing new in this situation since the
Romans began bringing slaves from Romania to do their work. In our own
country Blacks, Irish, Italians and a host of other low cost laborers were
always spat upon by those who were " real Americans" and felt threatened by
the competition. With modern technology and transportation, we no longer
invite them to live here, but offer them the jobs in their own countries.
Do I think its right or good? Doesn't matter, its a fact of life.

"Cliff" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:13:08 +1100, Terry Collins
wrote:

Ahernwill wrote:

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is
an
assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/
container
unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created.

At the risk of ****ing a lot of people off, that last bit about one job
out and another job is is the greatest load of piffle I've heard to
date.

The word is "efficency" and new jobs have to be so much more efficent
(produce more for labour input ) than old jobs, otherwise, new jobs
would not be created.

How many total manhours go into producing a car, from raw
materials to final shipping? Including design?
How many into unloading a container load equivalent from
a ship?
What are you planning to make to trade for those containerloads?
Right now, it seems to be scrap paper, scrap iron & "scrap"
machines, ...

It has to balance in the long run.
--
Cliff

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:49:11 GMT, "Ahernwill"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Speaking of piffle, the word is that the Bath Iron works- an old American
maritime institution will now outsource its shipbuilding to Australia!!

Bet
you won't hear any whining about that from down under.

Do you guys have to **** _everyone_ off? What whining caused you to
say that?

I am not full of "national pride". I just happen to live here, wheter
that makes me luckier than some or not. But your gratuitous crack
offends my sense of fellowship.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:33:57 -0500, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 20:17:32 -0800, the renowned "Steve R."
wrote:

I have never heard of cars being mass shipped in containers! Most of the
Japanese car companies use special roll on/roll off car carriers. Those
ships can be loaded, and unloaded incredibly fast.

Steve R.

Yeah, I know. They use containers to ship the kit parts for Honda's
plant in Alliston ON, though. It's only sort-of manufacturing.
Yeah but it ups the C. content
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

I don't think so. One is the balance of payments. The engineering and manufacturing jobs
are going overseas. Whole industries manufacture and design overseas and trim more and more
the state side bunch due to the cost of doing business.

My job as system engineer and first silicon debug job as well as co-designer went to India.
Manufacture is in the Philippines.

Oh - most of the chips - more than 80% are sold overseas.

The whole thing of ONE WORLD is crap. We don't owe the rest of the world a job a cheap
pill and a way of life. We have been doing it for far to long and and now we are
on the loosing end.

The lie was only Steel. Then only manufacturing. Then .... When 1 person works for 2 on SS
all hell will break loose. Will it take that long ? The liberals import and transport illegals
all over the country. So the jobs here are being depleted. NO they don't just pick crops like
the other lie.

Martin

Ahernwill wrote:

Of course the people who wring their hands over the exporting of jobs are
usually those who belong to that vast labor pool who rely on entrepeneurs to
create industries and then hire people to build the products. You seldom
hear of a neurosurgeon complaining that his job was exported. The brutal
fact is that if you are part of this labor pool, you must fend for yourself
by finding some way to increase your value or simply stand by and cry as
your job disappears. There is nothing new in this situation since the
Romans began bringing slaves from Romania to do their work. In our own
country Blacks, Irish, Italians and a host of other low cost laborers were
always spat upon by those who were " real Americans" and felt threatened by
the competition. With modern technology and transportation, we no longer
invite them to live here, but offer them the jobs in their own countries.
Do I think its right or good? Doesn't matter, its a fact of life.

"Cliff" wrote in message
...

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:13:08 +1100, Terry Collins
wrote:


Ahernwill wrote:

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is

an

assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/

container

unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created.

At the risk of ****ing a lot of people off, that last bit about one job
out and another job is is the greatest load of piffle I've heard to
date.

The word is "efficency" and new jobs have to be so much more efficent
(produce more for labour input ) than old jobs, otherwise, new jobs
would not be created.

How many total manhours go into producing a car, from raw
materials to final shipping? Including design?
How many into unloading a container load equivalent from
a ship?
What are you planning to make to trade for those containerloads?
Right now, it seems to be scrap paper, scrap iron & "scrap"
machines, ...

It has to balance in the long run.
--
Cliff






--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message.

My job as system engineer and first silicon debug job as well as
co-designer went to India.
Manufacture is in the Philippines.


The whole thing of ONE WORLD is crap. We don't owe the rest of the world
a job a cheap
pill and a way of life.


Hey man, walk back into one of your 2 or 3 bathrooms in your nice suburban
home and look in the mirror. Then take a look around at all the crap you
spend money on- cologne, hair spray, deodorant, cute little embroidered
towels etc etc. Its THEY who are giving YOU the good life. Remember the line
in the Declaration of
Independence- " We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are
created equal"
The word is ALL not just you and your neighbors lucky enough to be born
here- the poor guy squatting alongside the road in Bangladesh selling
baskets to keep his family fed has just as much right as you to " "life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness". So you lost your silicon valley job-
cry a few tears, sell one of your vehicles, boat, RV or plasma tv and invest
in your own business and get back into the game. And after a hard 12 hour
day at your own office come back home, sit in front of one of your remaining
TV's and reflect on the basket maker from Bangladesh who just put in his 12
and barely made enough for his family meal and will be back out there
tomorrow in hopes they won't go hungry.

On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:42:06 GMT, "Ahernwill"
wrote:

Of course the people who wring their hands over the exporting of jobs are
usually those who belong to that vast labor pool who rely on entrepeneurs to
create industries and then hire people to build the products.

These would be those entrepeneurs in places like China, right?
Or were you thinking of the ones in the US that are exporting the
jobs & products because it's so profitable?

Clearly they are not entrepeneurs creating US jobs, now are they?

You seldom
hear of a neurosurgeon complaining that his job was exported.

You consider them "entrepeneurs"?

The brutal
fact is that if you are part of this labor pool, you must fend for yourself
by finding some way to increase your value or simply stand by and cry as
your job disappears.

Moving to China or India are you?

There is nothing new in this situation since the
Romans began bringing slaves from Romania to do their work.

And now we have Herr shrubbie wanting to import them from
places like Mexico ...

In our own
country Blacks, Irish, Italians and a host of other low cost laborers were
always spat upon by those who were " real Americans" and felt threatened by
the competition. With modern technology and transportation, we no longer
invite them to live here, but offer them the jobs in their own countries.
Do I think its right or good? Doesn't matter, its a fact of life.

Perhaps your job could be exported to Africa, a bit of a neglected
place.


"Cliff" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:13:08 +1100, Terry Collins
wrote:

Ahernwill wrote:

I think the point of the post was that China selling cars to the US was
another example of exporting jobs. My point was that building cars is
an
assembly line job of about the same skill level as the forklift/
container
unloading work, so as one job leaves another is created.

At the risk of ****ing a lot of people off, that last bit about one job
out and another job is is the greatest load of piffle I've heard to
date.

The word is "efficency" and new jobs have to be so much more efficent
(produce more for labour input ) than old jobs, otherwise, new jobs
would not be created.

How many total manhours go into producing a car, from raw
materials to final shipping? Including design?
How many into unloading a container load equivalent from
a ship?
What are you planning to make to trade for those containerloads?
Right now, it seems to be scrap paper, scrap iron & "scrap"
machines, ...

It has to balance in the long run.
--
Cliff



I think you've missed the entire point, BTW.
--
Cliff

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 05:14:28 GMT, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

The liberals import and transport illegals
all over the country. So the jobs here are being depleted. NO they don't just pick crops like
the other lie.

Most farmers probably voted for the neocons.
Got cites that it's "liberals" transporting "illegals"?
--
Cliff

Poor Cliff, probably in a constant state of tension over his company
downsizing, gas going up 2 cents per gallon, and a hoarde of Mexicans
climbing over his back fence to steal away his job on the forklift. He
doesn't know it, but those poor 3rd world laborers have more peace of mind
than he can imagine, because they have hope for a better life while all he
has is an endless nagging fear of losing his tiny chunk of the universe.


"Cliff" wrote in message
These would be those entrepeneurs in places like China, right?
Or were you thinking of the ones in the US that are exporting the
jobs & products because it's so profitable?

Clearly they are not entrepeneurs creating US jobs, now are they?

Moving to China or India are you?


And now we have Herr shrubbie wanting to import them from
places like Mexico ...

Perhaps your job could be exported to Africa, a bit of a neglected
place.

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:10:11 GMT, "Ahernwill"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Independence- " We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are
created equal"
The word is ALL not just you and your neighbors lucky enough to be born
here- the poor guy squatting alongside the road in Bangladesh selling
baskets to keep his family fed has just as much right as you to " "life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness".

But would have a lot less trouble doing so if he "created" a little
less often....

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 19:37:13 GMT, "Ahernwill"
wrote:

Poor Cliff, probably in a constant state of tension over his company
downsizing, gas going up 2 cents per gallon, and a hoarde of Mexicans
climbing over his back fence to steal away his job on the forklift. He
doesn't know it, but those poor 3rd world laborers have more peace of mind
than he can imagine, because they have hope for a better life while all he
has is an endless nagging fear of losing his tiny chunk of the universe.


"Cliff" wrote in message
These would be those entrepeneurs in places like China, right?
Or were you thinking of the ones in the US that are exporting the
jobs & products because it's so profitable?

Clearly they are not entrepeneurs creating US jobs, now are they?

Moving to China or India are you?


And now we have Herr shrubbie wanting to import them from
places like Mexico ...

Perhaps your job could be exported to Africa, a bit of a neglected
place.



I smell someone that totally missed the mark G.
--
Cliff

On Fri, 14 Jan 2005 22:49:11 GMT, "Ahernwill"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Speaking of piffle, the word is that the Bath Iron works- an old American
maritime institution will now outsource its shipbuilding to Australia!! Bet
you won't hear any whining about that from down under.

You are almost compltely wrong. The work will be done in the USA. The
main reason for this one is that Austal is probably the best mob for
the job, and can provide the expertise. They have been building large,
fast, multihull ferries for ages. It has little to do with why
companies are going to China.

Ahernwill wrote:

You seldom hear of a neurosurgeon complaining that his job was exported.

How to blow your argument completely apart by demonstrating that you do
not know what you are talking about.

1) AFAIKI "Neurosurgeons" or any other medical practioners is a
PROTECTED area of employment.

2) Comparing apples with oranges. One position is a services area where
your material can not be exported and who main job is repairing ****
ups.. The other is a manufacturing position, who is frustrated in their
ability to create something of value.

Ahernwill wrote:

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message.

My job as system engineer and first silicon debug job as well as

co-designer went to India.

Manufacture is in the Philippines.


The whole thing of ONE WORLD is crap. We don't owe the rest of the world

a job a cheap

pill and a way of life.



Hey man, walk back into one of your 2 or 3 bathrooms in your nice suburban
home and look in the mirror. Then take a look around at all the crap you
spend money on- cologne, hair spray, deodorant, cute little embroidered
towels etc etc. Its THEY who are giving YOU the good life. Remember the line
in the Declaration of
Independence- " We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are
created equal"
The word is ALL not just you and your neighbors lucky enough to be born
here- the poor guy squatting alongside the road in Bangladesh selling
baskets to keep his family fed has just as much right as you to " "life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness". So you lost your silicon valley job-
cry a few tears, sell one of your vehicles, boat, RV or plasma tv and invest
in your own business and get back into the game. And after a hard 12 hour
day at your own office come back home, sit in front of one of your remaining
TV's and reflect on the basket maker from Bangladesh who just put in his 12
and barely made enough for his family meal and will be back out there
tomorrow in hopes they won't go hungry.


First of all, Our constitution defines the U.S.A. and the people within. It does not
declare that the rest of the world is defined by it or has rights from it. That is fact.

Otherwise EU and the British and ...... are all Americans. But they are not. And for the
most part are just as well in most but not all occurrences.

I don't own 'no stinking' boat, RV or Plasma TV.

Once out of this taxing state, I plan on my own business.
Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

"Old Nick" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:10:11 GMT, "Ahernwill"
vaguely proposed a theory
......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Independence- " We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are
created equal"
The word is ALL not just you and your neighbors lucky enough to be born
here- the poor guy squatting alongside the road in Bangladesh selling
baskets to keep his family fed has just as much right as you to " "life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness".

But would have a lot less trouble doing so if he "created" a little
less often....

What? Your not Catholic or Mormon?

My job as system engineer and first silicon debug job as well as

co-designer went to India.

Manufacture is in the Philippines.


The whole thing of ONE WORLD is crap. We don't owe the rest of the
world

a job a cheap

pill and a way of life.



Hey man, walk back into one of your 2 or 3 bathrooms in your nice
suburban
home and look in the mirror. Then take a look around at all the crap you
spend money on- cologne, hair spray, deodorant, cute little embroidered
towels etc etc. Its THEY who are giving YOU the good life. Remember the
line
in the Declaration of
Independence- " We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are
created equal"
The word is ALL not just you and your neighbors lucky enough to be born
here- the poor guy squatting alongside the road in Bangladesh selling
baskets to keep his family fed has just as much right as you to "
"life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness". So you lost your silicon valley
job-
cry a few tears, sell one of your vehicles, boat, RV or plasma tv and
invest
in your own business and get back into the game. And after a hard 12
hour
day at your own office come back home, sit in front of one of your
remaining
TV's and reflect on the basket maker from Bangladesh who just put in his
12
and barely made enough for his family meal and will be back out there
tomorrow in hopes they won't go hungry.


First of all, Our constitution defines the U.S.A. and the people within.
It does not
declare that the rest of the world is defined by it or has rights from it.
That is fact.

Otherwise EU and the British and ...... are all Americans. But they are
not. And for the
most part are just as well in most but not all occurrences.


Once out of this taxing state, I plan on my own business.
Martin


Check your facts man- the guys who wrote the Declaration of Independence
were all citizens of the British Empire. To say they were referring to just
themselves is an insult to that entire group of enlightened men we call the
" Founding Fathers".

To top it all off, now you don't want to pay your taxes- exactly which State
are you going to move to which has no taxes?? One thing for sure- it will
be outside this country, so good luck on exporting yourself and your job
along with you.

Martin H. Eastburn wrote:

Ahernwill wrote:

"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message.

My job as system engineer and first silicon debug job as well as


co-designer went to India.

Manufacture is in the Philippines.


The whole thing of ONE WORLD is crap. We don't owe the rest of the
world


a job a cheap

pill and a way of life.




Hey man, walk back into one of your 2 or 3 bathrooms in your nice
suburban
home and look in the mirror. Then take a look around at all the crap you
spend money on- cologne, hair spray, deodorant, cute little embroidered
towels etc etc. Its THEY who are giving YOU the good life. Remember
the line
in the Declaration of
Independence- " We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are
created equal"
The word is ALL not just you and your neighbors lucky enough to be born
here- the poor guy squatting alongside the road in Bangladesh selling
baskets to keep his family fed has just as much right as you to " "life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness". So you lost your silicon
valley job-
cry a few tears, sell one of your vehicles, boat, RV or plasma tv and
invest
in your own business and get back into the game. And after a hard 12
hour
day at your own office come back home, sit in front of one of your
remaining
TV's and reflect on the basket maker from Bangladesh who just put in
his 12
and barely made enough for his family meal and will be back out there
tomorrow in hopes they won't go hungry.


First of all, Our constitution defines the U.S.A. and the people
within. It does not
declare that the rest of the world is defined by it or has rights from
it. That is fact.

Otherwise EU and the British and ...... are all Americans. But they are
not. And for the
most part are just as well in most but not all occurrences.

I don't own 'no stinking' boat, RV or Plasma TV.

Once out of this taxing state, I plan on my own business.
Martin

The constitution covers the US citizens and while we are pleasant to be with
those that visit our country. If a declaration like that by a few men or women
were so all powerful that it covers the entire world then war and so much more
would be long gone. So would be waring types.
Our constitution doesn't deed or free 'man' just those under its control
as is the various articles of the bill of rights. There is slavery on a world
wide basis, loss of the right to bear arms and all sorts of differences.

Think what you want, their government knows what they want and in the case of the latest
African saluter one religion killing others that differ.

Get educated - go outside of this country and learn - I have - I have been in many countries
and know the good feeling of being home or just seeing the Air force ONE on the tarmac as I did -
does the body good.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Ahernwill wrote:

My job as system engineer and first silicon debug job as well as

co-designer went to India.


Manufacture is in the Philippines.


The whole thing of ONE WORLD is crap. We don't owe the rest of the

world

a job a cheap


pill and a way of life.



Hey man, walk back into one of your 2 or 3 bathrooms in your nice

suburban

home and look in the mirror. Then take a look around at all the crap you
spend money on- cologne, hair spray, deodorant, cute little embroidered
towels etc etc. Its THEY who are giving YOU the good life. Remember the

line

in the Declaration of
Independence- " We hold these truths to be self evident that ALL men are
created equal"
The word is ALL not just you and your neighbors lucky enough to be born
here- the poor guy squatting alongside the road in Bangladesh selling
baskets to keep his family fed has just as much right as you to "

"life,

liberty and the pursuit of happiness". So you lost your silicon valley

job-

cry a few tears, sell one of your vehicles, boat, RV or plasma tv and

invest

in your own business and get back into the game. And after a hard 12

hour

day at your own office come back home, sit in front of one of your

remaining

TV's and reflect on the basket maker from Bangladesh who just put in his

12

and barely made enough for his family meal and will be back out there
tomorrow in hopes they won't go hungry.



First of all, Our constitution defines the U.S.A. and the people within.

It does not

declare that the rest of the world is defined by it or has rights from it.

That is fact.

Otherwise EU and the British and ...... are all Americans. But they are

not. And for the

most part are just as well in most but not all occurrences.


Once out of this taxing state, I plan on my own business.
Martin



Check your facts man- the guys who wrote the Declaration of Independence
were all citizens of the British Empire. To say they were referring to just
themselves is an insult to that entire group of enlightened men we call the
" Founding Fathers".

To top it all off, now you don't want to pay your taxes- exactly which State
are you going to move to which has no taxes?? One thing for sure- it will
be outside this country, so good luck on exporting yourself and your job
along with you.


Read. The founding fathers were declaring themselves and ourselves independent
of all other nations. Don't forget there were Dutch and French and a number of
others. My people came from southern England but not all did by that time.
I'm not sure that all of the signers were British.

I don't say NO taxes - that is impossible. Even Alaska which pays everyone at
the end of the tax year has some taxes.

It is simply TAX load. Lower the tax load. The hidden taxes in most everything.
And this is a very high Taxing state - one of 50.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Read. The founding fathers were declaring themselves and ourselves
independent
of all other nations. Don't forget there were Dutch and French and a
number of
others. My people came from southern England but not all did by that
time.
I'm not sure that all of the signers were British.

I don't say NO taxes - that is impossible. Even Alaska which pays
everyone at
the end of the tax year has some taxes.

It is simply TAX load. Lower the tax load. The hidden taxes in most
everything.
And this is a very high Taxing state - one of 50.

Martin

Re-read your own post and then a little history. The essence of the
Declaration of Independence was a statement of the belief that ALL men were
created equal. Our founding fathers were not the first to come up with this
idea , but were the first to put it into action by placing their own lives
and fortunes on the line. The idea that they were just in it for themselves
is as insulting and repugnant as your flag waiving and tax evading
hypocrisy.

Ahernwill wrote:
Speaking of piffle, the word is that the Bath Iron works- an old American
maritime institution will now outsource its shipbuilding to Australia!! Bet
you won't hear any whining about that from down under.

Seems unlikely, almost no shipbuilding left in Australia.

....Brock.