WASHINGTON (AP) - The trade deficit jumped to the second-highest level
in history as surging demand for foreign oil swamped a small gain in
U.S. exports, the government reported Thursday. America's trade gap
with China hit an all-time high as retailers stocked up on cell
phones, toys and televisions in preparation for Christmas sales.

The worse-than-expected trade performance in August -- a deficit of
$54 billion -- represented a 6.9 percent widening from July's trade
gap of $50.5 billion. The record monthly deficit was set in June at
$55 billion.

snip

In August, the trade deficit with China climbed to a record $18.1
billion, pushed higher by a surge in demand for cell phones, toys and
games, televisions and VCRs as U.S. retailers stocked their shelves in
advance of the holiday shopping season.


[ They don't mention 'dorkin tools, but I'm sure we in there
somewhere... ]

"patrick conroy" wrote in message
...

In August, the trade deficit with China climbed to a record $18.1
billion, pushed higher by a surge in demand for cell phones, toys and
games, televisions and VCRs as U.S. retailers stocked their shelves in
advance of the holiday shopping season.


[ They don't mention 'dorkin tools, but I'm sure we in there
somewhere... ]


If it makes you feel better, putting the trade gap into perspective, the
record $18.1 billion might amount to 1 or 2 hours of consumer spending in
the U.S.

I have to admit that I go out of my way to buy tools built in the USA
or other countries I want to patronize (Thank you Robin Lee, purveyer
of the finest tool porn!) But I'm only willing to pay so much more for
those items or only CHICOM are available, so sometimes I end up buying
a Chinese product. It's not so much their export policies and the trade
balance, but the general treatment of their citizens and some inside
knowledge on the now forgotten EP-3E incident of several years ago that
still ****es me off. On the other hand, I have coworkers that say the
best way to get China to reform is to buy their products and empower
the growing middle class .
I don't know, overall I guess I still like the "made in USA" label on
the things I buy for my leisure time, be it guns, flyrods or tools.

Hard NOT to buy chinese tools. Something like 52% of walmart's inventory
comes from china. I asked my wife to pick me up a couple of adjustable
wrenches when she was at lowes. She came home with 2 crescent wrenches --
actual Crescent brand wrenchess -- she paid something like 17 bucks for
them. Made in the USA. Outstanding quality, but worth 11 bucks more than the
chinese version? On something small ticket like this, I would say yeah it
is. But My tablesaw is a Jet (isn't that taiwanese?) My band saw is made in
china, and I'm sure a lot of my other tools are too. It's tough to buy
american, even though I like to think I would if I could afford to.

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 23:05:11 GMT, patrick conroy
wrote:

In August, the trade deficit with China climbed to a record $18.1
billion

I buy from wherever makes it best. If this is China (my titanium bike
frame), then I'll happily buy Chinese.

The solution to an excessive trade in cheap crap is not to buy cheap
crap. We're all too affluent - far too much property around means that
ownership has itself been devalued. How can you take pride in a piece
of furniture when it's just $25 from Ikea ? Have less - but have
better.

"patrick conroy" wrote in message


[ They don't mention 'dorkin tools, but I'm sure we in there
somewhere... ]

Sometimes you have no choice. I went to buy a toaster recently. Every
single one was made in China. Tools are getting more and more from overseas
even if we want to buy US.

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:10:14 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Sometimes you have no choice. I went to buy a toaster recently. Every
single one was made in China. Tools are getting more and more from
overseas even if we want to buy US.

The daughter wanted an over the range microwave. We strolled down the
micro aisle at the borg, and she opens an E-wave. I says "Made in Korea".
I says "you don't want that". As we opened all the others, GE, Maytag,
Fridge, all the "US" made brands - every damned microwave is made in
Korea! I would guess, after taking a look, they all may have come out of
the same factory.

--
"It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among
[my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between
political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person,
the hatred they bore to his political opinions." --Thomas Jefferson

patrick conroy wrote:
[snip]
In August, the trade deficit with China climbed to a record $18.1
billion, pushed higher by a surge in demand for cell phones, toys and
games, televisions and VCRs as U.S. retailers stocked their shelves in
advance of the holiday shopping season.


[ They don't mention 'dorkin tools, but I'm sure we in there
somewhere... ]

We have to keep making nice with the Chinese. The People's Republic
owns a fair chunk of our $7 trillion nation debt.
twitch,
jo4hn

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:10:14 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Sometimes you have no choice. I went to buy a toaster recently. Every
single one was made in China. Tools are getting more and more from
overseas even if we want to buy US.

The daughter wanted an over the range microwave. We strolled down the
micro aisle at the borg, and she opens an E-wave. I says "Made in Korea".
I says "you don't want that". As we opened all the others, GE, Maytag,
Fridge, all the "US" made brands - every damned microwave is made in
Korea! I would guess, after taking a look, they all may have come out of
the same factory.

IMHO get the tool that offers the most value to you personally. Buying more
expensive or inferior hurts every body including the factory worker. The
locals need to learn to compete if they expect to remain in business. One
day it will be too late to learn to compete. Now is a good tome to learn.

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:27:44 +0000, Leon wrote:


"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:10:14 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Sometimes you have no choice. I went to buy a toaster recently.
Every
single one was made in China. Tools are getting more and more from
overseas even if we want to buy US.

The daughter wanted an over the range microwave. We strolled down the
micro aisle at the borg, and she opens an E-wave. I says "Made in
Korea". I says "you don't want that". As we opened all the others, GE,
Maytag, Fridge, all the "US" made brands - every damned microwave is
made in Korea! I would guess, after taking a look, they all may have
come out of the same factory.

IMHO get the tool that offers the most value to you personally. Buying
more expensive or inferior hurts every body including the factory worker.
The locals need to learn to compete if they expect to remain in business.
One day it will be too late to learn to compete. Now is a good tome to
learn.

Soooo, since EVERY microwave is made in Korea, how do I tell which is the
best value and what do the "locals" have to do with it, and who are the
"locals" competing with, and isn't it already a little "late"?

-Doug

--
"It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among
[my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between
political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person,
the hatred they bore to his political opinions." --Thomas Jefferson

In article ,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

Sometimes you have no choice. I went to buy a toaster recently. Every
single one was made in China.

We have a tank of a toaster. The Peterbuilt of toasters. It's a c.1955,
chrome and bakelight Kenmore that I picked up for a buck at my local
thrift store. Made in USA. Pops up a beautiful piece of hot toast just
begging for a slab of butter.

Have also forked over a few bucks for a chrome and bakelight waffle
iron, chrome clothes iron, and a polished aluminum(?) B&D drill - all
made in the US of A. How many of the plastic, Asian-import toasters,
irons and drills you all are buying today will still be working as the
day they were boxed at the factory come 50 years?

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____

"To know the world intimately is the beginning of caring."
-- Ann Hayman Zwinger

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:

The solution to an excessive trade in cheap crap is not to buy cheap
crap. We're all too affluent - far too much property around means that
ownership has itself been devalued. How can you take pride in a piece
of furniture when it's just $25 from Ikea ? Have less - but have
better.

Andy, Andy, Andy. I know you've been contributing to the group for quite
a while - with some excellent responses, BTW - but maybe you didn't
realize that most here are Americans...

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____

"To know the world intimately is the beginning of caring."
-- Ann Hayman Zwinger

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 22:46:53 -0700, Fly-by-Night CC
wrote:

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:

The solution to an excessive trade in cheap crap is not to buy cheap
crap. We're all too affluent - far too much property around means that
ownership has itself been devalued. How can you take pride in a piece
of furniture when it's just $25 from Ikea ? Have less - but have
better.

Andy, Andy, Andy. I know you've been contributing to the group for quite
a while - with some excellent responses, BTW - but maybe you didn't
realize that most here are Americans...

He probably didn't, because that mental squirt doesn't have a clue
about anything. Look at the banal and useless things he makes and
takes such pride in! Talk about someone who ain't got a life! His real
name must be Andy Dingleberry, and the world is a worse place since
his pitiful mother spawned him/it. I wish he'd make himself a coffin
out of that scrap wood he uses, and bury himself in it alive, and
very, very deep.

Peace, Rb

"Doug Winterburn" wrote in message
news
Soooo, since EVERY microwave is made in Korea, how do I tell which is the
best value and what do the "locals" have to do with it, and who are the
"locals" competing with, and isn't it already a little "late"?

-Doug

LOL... I knew that I probably should have posted this some where else. In
this case it would be hard to tell since each one appears to have been made
in one location. And yes in this case, it may be too late. I went through
this during the spring, buying a new microwave to replace a 1978 model and
every sales man knew SQUAT about the microwaves. Man these things do 10
times as much as they did back then for 1/4 the price.

I posted this article before but it fits in better here. It is an
article about how economist Paul Samuelson has done an about face on
globalism and says it will cause grave problems in the country that is
pushing all its labor off-shore, specifically mentioning China.

This is the quote I especially like:

"Samuelson's insight is that if a low-wage country like China suddenly
makes a major productivity leap in an industry formerly led by the
United States, the result can be a net negative for the American
people. Although American consumers may benefit via low-low prices at
Wal-Mart, their gains may be more than outweighed by large losses
sustained by laid-off American workers."

As before, I am hesitant to quote the entire article because of
copyright laws
but here is the url to read it yourself:

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?...articleId=8521

"Ray Kinzler" wrote in message
m...
I posted this article before but it fits in better here. It is an
article about how economist Paul Samuelson has done an about face on
globalism and says it will cause grave problems in the country that is
pushing all its labor off-shore, specifically mentioning China.

This is the quote I especially like:

"Samuelson's insight is that if a low-wage country like China suddenly
makes a major productivity leap in an industry formerly led by the
United States, the result can be a net negative for the American
people. Although American consumers may benefit via low-low prices at
Wal-Mart, their gains may be more than outweighed by large losses
sustained by laid-off American workers."


I suspect that the potential laid-off American workers had better start
becoming more competitive and learn to survive in world economy.

On 15 Oct 2004 05:14:40 -0700, (Ray Kinzler)
wrote:

economist Paul Samuelson has done an about face on
globalism and says it will cause grave problems in the country that is
pushing all its labor off-shore, specifically mentioning China.

This is something Brits of my Dad's generation realised twenty years
ago, when that bloody Thatcher woman closed down manufacturing in
favour of a "service" economy. You can't all survive just by taking
in each other's washing. If no-one makes anything any more, then the
whole business eventually grinds to a halt. Outsourcing manufacturing
to China is perhaps a bigger issue in the USA than in the UK, simply
because we already lost so much of our manufacturing 15 years ago.

--
Smert' spamionam

Actually I think that his reply makes a lot of sense. Americans buy too
much for the sake of owning things. To do this they must look at price and
not quality, then they complain about how poorly everything is made as they
go out to buy more cheap stuff to replace the cheap stuff they don't need in
the first place. If we all bought only what we needed and bought quality
items we would all have more money in the bank and be living better. If you
don't think Americans own to much stuff, spend a weekend going to yard
sales.
"Fly-by-Night CC" wrote in message
news
In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:

The solution to an excessive trade in cheap crap is not to buy cheap
crap. We're all too affluent - far too much property around means that
ownership has itself been devalued. How can you take pride in a piece
of furniture when it's just $25 from Ikea ? Have less - but have
better.

Andy, Andy, Andy. I know you've been contributing to the group for quite
a while - with some excellent responses, BTW - but maybe you didn't
realize that most here are Americans...

--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____

"To know the world intimately is the beginning of caring."
-- Ann Hayman Zwinger

On Thu, 14 Oct 2004 20:17:39 -0700, Doug Winterburn
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:10:14 +0000, Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

Sometimes you have no choice. I went to buy a toaster recently. Every
single one was made in China. Tools are getting more and more from
overseas even if we want to buy US.

The daughter wanted an over the range microwave. We strolled down the
micro aisle at the borg, and she opens an E-wave. I says "Made in Korea".
I says "you don't want that". As we opened all the others, GE, Maytag,
Fridge, all the "US" made brands - every damned microwave is made in
Korea! I would guess, after taking a look, they all may have come out of
the same factory.

probably dae woo (sp)... they make everything from computers to cars..

Rb did say:

He probably didn't, because that mental squirt doesn't have a clue
about anything. Look at the banal and useless things he makes and
takes such pride in! Talk about someone who ain't got a life! His real
name must be Andy Dingleberry, and the world is a worse place since
his pitiful mother spawned him/it. I wish he'd make himself a coffin
out of that scrap wood he uses, and bury himself in it alive, and
very, very deep.

Peace, Rb

Jeez, Rb... What'd AD do to you? That's at least two death wishing flames
today. Not that I care about AD one way or the other, I'm just curious.

Peace???!!! Not with AD obviously.


--
New project = new tool. Hard and fast rule.

If this makes you feel better, Chinese are buying stuffs from many
other Asian countries (most of them are US allies), assembling those
stuffs together and selling the finished products to US. In a way, the
large trade deficit with China is simply a repackaging of the large
trade deficit that US used to have with other Asian countries. Now the
trade deficit takes a detour to China and get re-labeled as a trade
deficit with China.

China has very little natural resource other than human resource. If
China needs to sell something, China needs to import it from foreign
countries in a form of raw materials or partially finished components.
That is the reason China has trade deficits with the rest of the Asian
countries (particularly Japan). In the end, China has a small surplus;
this is not like China is rolling in money. Please bear in mind that
China sells a lot of stuff to US, but US also sells a lot of stuffs
(like military equipments) to Asian countries, and those Asian
countries sells a lot of stuffs to China. This is like a loop.
Therefore, we cannot simply look at the trade balance with China in
isolation. We need to look at the big picture.

If US wants to improve its overall trade balance, US needs to sell
more stuff to the rest of the world. US has plenty of raw materials
that can sell -- start by opening more oil fields in Alaska. This is a
question of whether US (government and people) has the will to do
this.

The other way is to cut the defense budget or downsize the government,
and channel the money (in the form of tax saving) to private sectors
in order to increase the capital investment on US industrials. This is
to improve the productivity of US industrials. Honestly, I don't know
if this will work though (US companies could send the money aboard and
opened a state of the art factory in China); therefore, I don't say
anything more on this.

There are other things that US can do well and could have sold well.
High tech military equipments are things that US is doing very well
and could have sold well. Afterall, US has spent so much money
developing those weapons. But for one reason or another, US cannot
simply sell these high tech stuffs to any country discriminably. This
means US has very great stuffs that US could have sold but cannot
sell.

In other words, there are many great stuffs that US could have sold,
but cannot sell for some reasons. This will go a long way explaining
why US has a large trade deficit.

If US doesn't want to sell more stuffs to the world, US will need to
find a way to buy fewer stuffs from the rest of the world either
voluntarily or being forced on. Seem like if the budget deficit keeps
increasing like this, US currency may drop its value. IF this
happened, we would not afford to buy that many stuffs from the rest of
the world, and the trade deficit would be taken care of in this way.
Oh well...

Jay Chan

WoodMangler did say:

ace, Rb

Jeez, Rb... What'd AD do to you? That's at least two death wishing flames
today. Not that I care about AD one way or the other, I'm just curious.


Looking at your headers, they match the news server of only one other
person on the rec. Can't say why you despise AD so much, he didn't seem to
participate too much in the political threads you were so fond of until
recently.

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:24:59 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:



I suspect that the potential laid-off American workers had better start
becoming more competitive and learn to survive in world economy.

That's my tune - mostly. But I find it easier to tell this to a group
of 25 yr olds rather than a 55 yr old with a mortgage, college bills,
possible medical costs, perhaps a parent in need of long-term
expensive care. And wondering how long it'll be before his 401K
retirement plans get back on track after the bubble burst.

I've said it before - I'm in IT and I think about this everyday. What
am I doing to ensure I can provide for my family?

On 15 Oct 2004 05:14:40 -0700, (Ray Kinzler)
wrote:

I posted this article before but it fits in better here. It is an
article about how economist Paul Samuelson has done an about face on
globalism and says it will cause grave problems in the country that is
pushing all its labor off-shore, specifically mentioning China.

This is the quote I especially like:

"Samuelson's insight is that if a low-wage country like China suddenly
makes a major productivity leap in an industry formerly led by the
United States, the result can be a net negative for the American
people. Although American consumers may benefit via low-low prices at
Wal-Mart, their gains may be more than outweighed by large losses
sustained by laid-off American workers."

As before, I am hesitant to quote the entire article because of
copyright laws
but here is the url to read it yourself:

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?...articleId=8521

A good article and a book that's been long overdue. After listening
to Ralph Nader speak to this very subject last night, I really wish we
had some realistic hope of getting him elected.

With the almost-total loss now of our manufacturing base, our economy
is based on smoke&mirrors, hamburgers and "information technology"
(which is essentially nothing).

The only people who really believe in the 'global economy' are the
very few who are enlarging their personal fortunes. For the rest of
us it's disaster, and NAFTA is the most close-to-home example I can
think of at the moment.

One of the shining examples of how bad NAFTA is, is that the state of
Michigan cannot stop Canada from hauling their trash and hazardous
waste across our borders. Now, this is a country with a land mass
pretty much equivalent to that of the United States and a population
of some 30 million. Surely, somewhere, in all that wasteland, theres
room for a landfill of their very own. And on top of all that, one
very greedy and uncaring US developer is now drilling a 'deep well',
into which he intends to let Canada inject even more hazardous waste.
The only thing that can stop this is action by the US congress, and
the liklihood of that happening are just slightly less than me having
Britney Spears show up on my door tonight for a date.

(Soapbox now properly stowed. Thanks for listening.

"patrick conroy" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:24:59 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:



I suspect that the potential laid-off American workers had better start
becoming more competitive and learn to survive in world economy.

That's my tune - mostly. But I find it easier to tell this to a group
of 25 yr olds rather than a 55 yr old with a mortgage, college bills,
possible medical costs, perhaps a parent in need of long-term
expensive care. And wondering how long it'll be before his 401K
retirement plans get back on track after the bubble burst.


I'm 50 now and always kept in the back of my mind, I could be replaced or
this type business is not going to last unless changes are made. I am
certainly glad that I knew this when I was 23.

On 15 Oct 2004 05:14:40 -0700, (Ray Kinzler)
wrote:

I posted this article before but it fits in better here. It is an
article about how economist Paul Samuelson has done an about face on
globalism and says it will cause grave problems in the country that is
pushing all its labor off-shore, specifically mentioning China.

This is the quote I especially like:

"Samuelson's insight is that if a low-wage country like China suddenly
makes a major productivity leap in an industry formerly led by the
United States, the result can be a net negative for the American
people. Although American consumers may benefit via low-low prices at
Wal-Mart, their gains may be more than outweighed by large losses
sustained by laid-off American workers."

Ultimately, in a global economy, most of the world must be just barely
above subsistence level. As countries such as China raise there
standard of living those on the US and Europe must drop to compensate.

The good news is that as the standard of living drops the value of our
time drops and it is less costly to spend many hours in the woodshop.
The bad news is that you will be doing it neander style. (some may
consider that good news as well)

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Allen Epps wrote:

I have to admit that I go out of my way to buy tools built in the USA
or other countries I want to patronize (Thank you Robin Lee, purveyer
of the finest tool porn!) But I'm only willing to pay so much more for
those items or only CHICOM are available, so sometimes I end up buying
a Chinese product.

A new battery & battery charger for my 13.2 B&D Firestorm drill came to
$55.77. A couple days later at HF I got a 14.4 battery & battery charger &
drill for about $17.00. Seems to work just fine. In fact I'm thinking
about buying a spare battery for it (and charger and drill) while they're
still on sale. ;-)

How can you make something useful, ship it halfway around the world, and
everyone makes money on a $17 product? Pretty impressive when you think
about it.

-- Mark

How can you make something useful, ship it halfway around the world, and
everyone makes money on a $17 product? Pretty impressive when you think
about it.

-- Mark

Welll......it's all in the labor, and lack of environmental laws. I read an
amazing article about what sometimes happens to the world's old computers.
China has enormous landfills made up of only junker pcs. Labor is so cheap,
it is actually economically feasible to have people actually stripping them
for parts, screws, wire, even down to the level of using acid to leach the
precious metals out of the circuit boards. The areas where they do this are
so polluted, the people who live nearby have to bring in bottled water to
drink. Scary.

snip "so polluted, the people who live nearby have to bring in bottled
water to
drink."

Why do Americans buy so much bottled water then?

"mark" wrote in message
...
How can you make something useful, ship it halfway around the world, and
everyone makes money on a $17 product? Pretty impressive when you think
about it.

-- Mark

Welll......it's all in the labor, and lack of environmental laws. I read
an
amazing article about what sometimes happens to the world's old computers.
China has enormous landfills made up of only junker pcs. Labor is so
cheap,
it is actually economically feasible to have people actually stripping
them
for parts, screws, wire, even down to the level of using acid to leach the
precious metals out of the circuit boards. The areas where they do this
are
so polluted, the people who live nearby have to bring in bottled water to
drink. Scary.

Filter?

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:33:12 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

"Jack Casuso" wrote in message
. net...

Why do Americans buy so much bottled water then?

IMHO there is a sucker born every 10 seconds. I would imagine 10% have a
good excuse. Much cheaper to filter your own water than to pay some to
filter it for you.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 03:49:32 GMT, "mark" wrote:

How can you make something useful, ship it halfway around the world, and
everyone makes money on a $17 product? Pretty impressive when you think
about it.

-- Mark

Welll......it's all in the labor, and lack of environmental laws. I read an
amazing article about what sometimes happens to the world's old computers.
China has enormous landfills made up of only junker pcs. Labor is so cheap,
it is actually economically feasible to have people actually stripping them
for parts, screws, wire, even down to the level of using acid to leach the
precious metals out of the circuit boards. The areas where they do this are
so polluted, the people who live nearby have to bring in bottled water to
drink. Scary.

If we wanted to level the trade deficit all we would have to do is
require that any company shipping goods to the US had to document that
their production was meeting all US environmental standards. You would
see production moving back to the US in droves.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

"Jack Casuso" wrote in message
et...
snip "so polluted, the people who live nearby have to bring in bottled
water to
drink."

Why do Americans buy so much bottled water then?


Paranoia? Because it tastes better than the chlorinated stuff? Because
they can afford to spend money on water? I don't think they HAVE to, I
think they LIKE to. Big difference. I dunno -- I have a well.

"Jack Casuso" wrote in message
et...

Why do Americans buy so much bottled water then?

IMHO there is a sucker born every 10 seconds. I would imagine 10% have a
good excuse. Much cheaper to filter your own water than to pay some to
filter it for you.

"Jack Casuso" wrote in message
et...
snip "so polluted, the people who live nearby have to bring in bottled
water to
drink."

Why do Americans buy so much bottled water then?

Because they have more money than they know what to do with and they're
stupid.

Never heard of a filter?

wrote in message
...

Filter?

Yeah. A kitchen sink filter, refrigerator filter, or whole house filter.
Or buy the PUR water pitcher and you get crystal clear water. Much of the
bottled water is simply city water filtered and bottled.


wrote in message
...
Filter?

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:33:12 GMT, "Leon"
wrote:

"Jack Casuso" wrote in message
.net...

Why do Americans buy so much bottled water then?

IMHO there is a sucker born every 10 seconds. I would imagine 10% have a
good excuse. Much cheaper to filter your own water than to pay some to
filter it for you.

I agree with what you are all saying here. I am so thankful that my son is
working for a company making war machines right now because that is all that
I see that is safe in the US manufacturing area. I went to Sam's club today
and wondered around looking at where the products were made. Almost
everything I saw with any real manufacturing content (except washers, dryers
and some tools) were made in China. Scares the heck out of me.

People like Rush Limbaugh seem to believe that we have always found a way to
compete in the past. I am looking for someone to tell me how except for a
very few areas (like high tech war machines).

"Tim Douglass" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 03:49:32 GMT, "mark" wrote:

How can you make something useful, ship it halfway around the world,
and
everyone makes money on a $17 product? Pretty impressive when you
think
about it.

-- Mark

Welll......it's all in the labor, and lack of environmental laws. I read
an
amazing article about what sometimes happens to the world's old
computers.
China has enormous landfills made up of only junker pcs. Labor is so
cheap,
it is actually economically feasible to have people actually stripping
them
for parts, screws, wire, even down to the level of using acid to leach
the
precious metals out of the circuit boards. The areas where they do this
are
so polluted, the people who live nearby have to bring in bottled water to
drink. Scary.

If we wanted to level the trade deficit all we would have to do is
require that any company shipping goods to the US had to document that
their production was meeting all US environmental standards. You would
see production moving back to the US in droves.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

"Eric Anderson" wrote in message

Almost
everything I saw with any real manufacturing content (except washers,
dryers
and some tools) were made in China. Scares the heck out of me.

Right, the washers and dryers are made in Korea. Take a look at the larger
appliances and more and more are imports. Places like Best Buy are pushing
a lot of them

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:58:20 -0700, "CW" no adddress@spam free.com
wrote:


"Jack Casuso" wrote in message
. net...
snip "so polluted, the people who live nearby have to bring in bottled
water to
drink."

Why do Americans buy so much bottled water then?

Because they have more money than they know what to do with and they're
stupid.



some of us. lots of us live in places where we've polluted our local
water supplies.... where I live it's impossible to get a well drilling
permit- I'm on top of a TCE plume.

On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 21:08:28 -0400, "Eric Anderson"
wrote:

I agree with what you are all saying here. I am so thankful that my son is
working for a company making war machines right now because that is all that
I see that is safe in the US manufacturing area. I went to Sam's club today
and wondered around looking at where the products were made. Almost
everything I saw with any real manufacturing content (except washers, dryers
and some tools) were made in China. Scares the heck out of me.

People like Rush Limbaugh seem to believe that we have always found a way to
compete in the past. I am looking for someone to tell me how except for a
very few areas (like high tech war machines).

We will compete again when the standard of living in those other
countries rises to where it is no longer cost effective to transport
the goods. Of course that will also be coupled with a drop in our own
standard of living, but that may not be all bad.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

This is correct. And the Korean appliances Best Buy is pushing is high end
stuff, not the cheap stuff.

Right, the washers and dryers are made in Korea. Take a look at the
larger
appliances and more and more are imports. Places like Best Buy are
pushing
a lot of them