Have just been given a small three wheel band saw, had to make an upper
blade guide for it. Obviously designed for hobby woodworking, blade is 56
1/8 inch long 1/4 by 6tpi.
Can this be converted to light metal cutting? I realise that the motor
(direct drive ) will have to be slowed down; are there any metal cutting
blades of this size (1/4 or 3/8 wide) available?
Do not have blade welding equipment, how effective is silver soldering for
joining blade ends? Is the joint a butt or scarf type?
Ray, in sunny Victoria.

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:36:22 GMT, "Ray Field"
wrote:

===Have just been given a small three wheel band saw, had to make an upper
===blade guide for it. Obviously designed for hobby woodworking, blade is 56
===1/8 inch long 1/4 by 6tpi.
===Can this be converted to light metal cutting? I realise that the motor
===(direct drive ) will have to be slowed down; are there any metal cutting
===blades of this size (1/4 or 3/8 wide) available?
===Do not have blade welding equipment, how effective is silver soldering for
===joining blade ends? Is the joint a butt or scarf type?
===Ray, in sunny Victoria.
===

Its gonna have to be slowed way down to be usefull for metal
cutting....if its anything like the typical small 2 or 3 wheel BS I
have run across. Yes yu can get metal cuttingblades down as as small
as 3/16" (smallest I have ever seen or had the need to use) Silver
solder is very effective at producing a joint in putting bandsaw
blades together....I doubt most any hoome builder or wood working
store wold carry small metal cutting blades but most any industrial or
welding supply shop / store that makes BS blades from coil stock would
have them........The joint used is a scarf type joint.

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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 20:36:22 GMT, "Ray Field"
wrote:

Have just been given a small three wheel band saw, had to make an upper
blade guide for it. Obviously designed for hobby woodworking, blade is 56
1/8 inch long 1/4 by 6tpi.
Can this be converted to light metal cutting? I realise that the motor
(direct drive ) will have to be slowed down; are there any metal cutting
blades of this size (1/4 or 3/8 wide) available?
Do not have blade welding equipment, how effective is silver soldering for
joining blade ends? Is the joint a butt or scarf type?
Ray, in sunny Victoria.

Silver soldered is a scarf joint, time honored tradition to drive the
apprentice further out of what little mine he has left. Welded joints
can be stronger, if properly done, or weaker if not so good. You
should be able to buy metal cutting blade stock in either 1/4" or
3/8", I think I've seen it advertised. Gear reduction boxes can
sometimes be found in the scrapyards, mostly on the end of burned up
gear motors. Motor doesn't matter, modify the input and stick a
pulley on it, use whatever motor turns your crank. Frame strength may
be an issue.

Greybeard.

Ray Field wrote:

Have just been given a small three wheel band saw, had to make an upper
blade guide for it. Obviously designed for hobby woodworking, blade is 56
1/8 inch long 1/4 by 6tpi.
Can this be converted to light metal cutting? I realise that the motor
(direct drive ) will have to be slowed down; are there any metal cutting
blades of this size (1/4 or 3/8 wide) available?
Do not have blade welding equipment, how effective is silver soldering for
joining blade ends? Is the joint a butt or scarf type?
Ray, in sunny Victoria.

Ha Ha. I had one. Ended up being "a tool
I threw against the wall"

Ray Field wrote:

Have just been given a small three wheel band saw, had to make an upper
blade guide for it. Obviously designed for hobby woodworking, blade is 56
1/8 inch long 1/4 by 6tpi.
Can this be converted to light metal cutting? I realise that the motor
(direct drive ) will have to be slowed down; are there any metal cutting
blades of this size (1/4 or 3/8 wide) available?
Do not have blade welding equipment, how effective is silver soldering for
joining blade ends? Is the joint a butt or scarf type?
Ray, in sunny Victoria.




Is this the old Delta 3 wheeler? Blade size sounds about the same.
Delta (called it an 18" due to the deeper throat) set those up so that
there was a second belt supplied which fit over what was effectively the
shaft of the lower wheel for driving. Basically it was like a double
pulley but used a flat belt, Upi could use one belt to drive the normal
pulley or a second to drive on an extended shaft surface. The intent
was to slow things down enough to do *some* metal cutting also.

Koz

I had a German (Austrian?) three-wheeler in the small shop I set up in a
hospital in the 80's. The saw had an "Emco" (not "Enco") label on it and
might even have been build by them. I bought it when I bought my Emco-Meir
V10-P (or 13-P, can't remember so well any more) with milling attachment.
It had a welded rectangular tube frame, and I used it to surprisingly good
advantage, mostly on aluminum. I now have an old Sears 3-wheeler that
someone gave me that's a lot sturdier (cast iron frame), but really noisy.
I use it for quick jobs, mostly in wood. I don't have a decent metal
bandsaw. I usually use a sabre saw if I need to do a lot of cutting. Works
pretty well, but can't handle much thickness.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)


"Ray Field" wrote in message
news:aZ7Qd.35$%y.3@clgrps12...
Have just been given a small three wheel band saw, had to make an upper
blade guide for it. Obviously designed for hobby woodworking, blade is 56
1/8 inch long 1/4 by 6tpi.
Can this be converted to light metal cutting? I realise that the motor
(direct drive ) will have to be slowed down; are there any metal cutting
blades of this size (1/4 or 3/8 wide) available?
Do not have blade welding equipment, how effective is silver soldering for
joining blade ends? Is the joint a butt or scarf type?
Ray, in sunny Victoria.

Ray Field wrote:

Have just been given a small three wheel band saw, had to make an upper
blade guide for it. Obviously designed for hobby woodworking, blade is 56
1/8 inch long 1/4 by 6tpi.
Can this be converted to light metal cutting? I realise that the motor
(direct drive ) will have to be slowed down; are there any metal cutting
blades of this size (1/4 or 3/8 wide) available?
Do not have blade welding equipment, how effective is silver soldering for
joining blade ends? Is the joint a butt or scarf type?
Ray, in sunny Victoria.

First, to be clear, you have to decide what kind of metal you want to
cut. Aluminum, copper, brass, the non ferrous metals, it will do, steel,
I would not get my hopes up.

I had a version of this type of saw, probably the cheesiest cheapest
version around, to be frank. Mine ran a largish O ring for a drive belt
and was "torque limited" to say the least.

It was the cat's meow for cutting aluminum with a sharp 4 or 6 tpi
blade moving as fast as it would run. Effortless cuts (not fast, though)
through 1/2 inch plate, nice cuts on sheet stock down to .020 by placing
the stock on a sacrificial layer of wood. For the larger stock, a sharp
blade was a must have, with a very light touch on the feed to avoid
bogging it down.

I doubt the bearings will handle the forces required to keep a cut
going at the slow speeds required to cut steel with an appropriate
blade. Not for any length of time, anyway.

Silver solder is excellent for joining blades and is a skill worth
learning.

Cheers
Trevor Jones

On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 19:15:06 -0700, Trevor Jones
wrote:

Ray Field wrote:

Have just been given a small three wheel band saw, had to make an upper
blade guide for it. Obviously designed for hobby woodworking, blade is 56
1/8 inch long 1/4 by 6tpi.
Can this be converted to light metal cutting? I realise that the motor
(direct drive ) will have to be slowed down; are there any metal cutting
blades of this size (1/4 or 3/8 wide) available?
Do not have blade welding equipment, how effective is silver soldering for
joining blade ends? Is the joint a butt or scarf type?
Ray, in sunny Victoria.

Aluminum sure, lightweight brass maybe, not steel thicker than about
..090.

I made a speed reducer for a very old (vintage late '40s or early
'50s) belt-drive Craftsman 3-wheeler using two stages of sprockets
and chains. Noisy as hell, but it worked fine. But even that old
Craftsman, with cast iron frame, just doesn't have the rigidity to
withstand the forces used in cutting steel. It would throw blades as
feed force deflected the frame enough to screw up the tracking.

You may not need a speed reducer for cutting aluminum.

Silverbrazing works fine for joining blade ends with a scarf joint.
It's easy to make a simple jig to hold the blade for joining.

Thank you to all that replied, your comments are very helpful.
Machine is direct drive from an induction motor, will try an electronic
speed controller to see if it works first.
Materials that would be cut are aluminum up to 1/4", brass to 3/16", steel
to 1/16". Any suggestions on TPI for these metals?
On scarf joints, what angle, 30 degrees (long scarf). Any suggestions on
grinding blade to that angle?
Ray, still in the sun, with ornamental cherry blossoms.

Ray:
Single phase induction motors cannot be speed controlled very well and
in any event you will not be able to reduce speed enough and still have
power for steel. You are out of luck unless you want to make major mods
to the drive system.

Jim

Ray Field wrote:
Thank you to all that replied, your comments are very helpful.
Machine is direct drive from an induction motor, will try an electronic
speed controller to see if it works first.
Materials that would be cut are aluminum up to 1/4", brass to 3/16", steel
to 1/16". Any suggestions on TPI for these metals?
On scarf joints, what angle, 30 degrees (long scarf). Any suggestions on
grinding blade to that angle?
Ray, still in the sun, with ornamental cherry blossoms.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:49:40 GMT, "Ray Field"
wrote:

Thank you to all that replied, your comments are very helpful.
Machine is direct drive from an induction motor, will try an electronic
speed controller to see if it works first.
Materials that would be cut are aluminum up to 1/4", brass to 3/16", steel
to 1/16". Any suggestions on TPI for these metals?
On scarf joints, what angle, 30 degrees (long scarf). Any suggestions on
grinding blade to that angle?
Ray, still in the sun, with ornamental cherry blossoms.

You will need 15:1 to 20:1 speed reduction to cut steel and brass
without knocking the teeth off the blade. Not on with a motor
control; you need belts or gears between the motor and the saw.

Aluminum can be cut at 3000 SFM, mild steel about 160 SFM although a
really good blade can do 300 SFM in steel.

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:08:07 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 21:49:40 GMT, "Ray Field"
wrote:

Thank you to all that replied, your comments are very helpful.
Machine is direct drive from an induction motor, will try an electronic
speed controller to see if it works first.
Materials that would be cut are aluminum up to 1/4", brass to 3/16", steel
to 1/16". Any suggestions on TPI for these metals?
On scarf joints, what angle, 30 degrees (long scarf). Any suggestions on
grinding blade to that angle?
Ray, still in the sun, with ornamental cherry blossoms.

You will need 15:1 to 20:1 speed reduction to cut steel and brass
without knocking the teeth off the blade. Not on with a motor
control; you need belts or gears between the motor and the saw.

Aluminum can be cut at 3000 SFM, mild steel about 160 SFM although a
really good blade can do 300 SFM in steel.

Dont forget "friction cutting"

G

Gunner

Rule #35
"That which does not kill you,
has made a huge tactical error"

In article ,
Bob Chilcoat wrote:
I had a German (Austrian?) three-wheeler in the small shop I set up in a
hospital in the 80's. The saw had an "Emco" (not "Enco") label on it and
might even have been build by them.

It was. Mine has the same type of motor that the C5 milling
machine (milling column for a Compact-5 on a separate (quite solid) X-Y
base, and the same type that the manual Compact-5 lathe has. I've got
the CNC version of the lathe, so I wind up with a DC PM motor instead.)

[ ... ]

It had a welded rectangular tube frame, and I used it to surprisingly good
advantage, mostly on aluminum.

I've got one of them, too. I got it from eBay a couple of years
ago, and it was not too well packed, so some of the plastic end plates
were broken -- took a bit of work with some MEK to sort of glue them
back together. I would love to find a source for replacement plastic
end caps for the channels, though it does still work well.

Anyway -- it had provisions for three speeds. The first two
were fast speeds, with small pulleys on the hub of the third wheel. The
third speed was a pulley groove cut around the bottom wheel, just beside
the fan blade -- big diameter to very small motor pulley diameter. A
bit fast for steel, but nice for most other common metals. The high
speed works well for aluminum.

For cutting round or square stock to length, I have one of the
ubiquitous 4x6" "$200.00 bandsaws", which now sell for about $160.00. :-)

The combination of the two covers most of my needs.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

In article U7uQd.44706$K54.23551@edtnps84,
Ray Field wrote:
Thank you to all that replied, your comments are very helpful.
Machine is direct drive from an induction motor, will try an electronic
speed controller to see if it works first.

Unless it is a three-phase motor, it won't. VFDs do a nice job
of controlling the speed of three-phase motors. Other induction motors
(single-phase) really don't work with the variable frequency, and most
inexpensive speed controllers are for universal (AC/DC) motors, not
induction motors.

Even with a VFD on a three-phase motor, you won't have the
needed torque at very slow speeds -- and the motor may well burn up,
unless you supply an alternate fan to keep cooling air circulating
through the motor.

Materials that would be cut are aluminum up to 1/4", brass to 3/16", steel
to 1/16". Any suggestions on TPI for these metals?

Based on thickness -- you should have at least two (ideally
2-1/2) teeth in the workpiece at any one time, or you will start
stripping off teeth. For the 1/16" steel, this calls for at least 32
TPI. For 1/4" aluminum, 8 TPI or probably 10 TPI would be better.
Probably around 24 TPI for the 3/16" brass.

On scarf joints, what angle, 30 degrees (long scarf). Any suggestions on
grinding blade to that angle?

I'm not sure, as I have a blade welder. Hopefully, others will
answer this part.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---