Easy for you to say...



"Philippe Gravelle" wrote in message
...

"Philippe Gravelle" wrote in message
...


I can only assume the subject says it all.

The only way to repair rusted reamers is to regrind them to a different
size--------unless one can be happy with a tool that doesn't cut well. It's
not something that one can do without a cutter or precision grinder, but
best done on a precision grinder. Even then, the results would be
questionable.

Harold

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote in message
...

"Philippe Gravelle" wrote in message
...


I can only assume the subject says it all.

The only way to repair rusted reamers is to regrind them to a different
size--------unless one can be happy with a tool that doesn't cut well.
It's
not something that one can do without a cutter or precision grinder, but
best done on a precision grinder. Even then, the results would be
questionable.

Harold

Got to disagree I'm afraid. As reamers only cut on the leading edge I don't
find it makes much difference what condition the flutes are in provided
there are no high spots. I've got a selection of old reamers with rust
specks all over them which I get from the local second hand tool shop for a
quid or so each and they all cut fine and to their nominal size. A quick
lick down the flutes with an oilstone to remove any burrs is all any of them
have needed to become perfectly serviceable. The leading edge can be
resharpened as often as you like without altering the size.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)

"Dave Baker" wrote in message
...

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote in message
...

"Philippe Gravelle" wrote in message
...


I can only assume the subject says it all.

The only way to repair rusted reamers is to regrind them to a different
size--------unless one can be happy with a tool that doesn't cut well.
It's
not something that one can do without a cutter or precision grinder, but
best done on a precision grinder. Even then, the results would be
questionable.

Harold

Got to disagree I'm afraid. As reamers only cut on the leading edge I
don't
find it makes much difference what condition the flutes are in provided
there are no high spots. I've got a selection of old reamers with rust
specks all over them which I get from the local second hand tool shop for
a
quid or so each and they all cut fine and to their nominal size. A quick
lick down the flutes with an oilstone to remove any burrs is all any of
them
have needed to become perfectly serviceable. The leading edge can be
resharpened as often as you like without altering the size.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)

There's rust, and then there's rust. There was no information provided so
I responded to the worst case scenario. Can't speak for you, but I've
ground (for size) and sharpened more than my share of reamers in my day and
have a pretty good idea of what it takes to get one to cut size------and not
seize in the hole, or tear it up due to chip welding.

I agree with your comments if the reamer has superficial rust. I totally
disagree if it has more. Notice I didn't say the reamers wouldn't
cut----I simply claim they cease to be a precision tool, such as reamers
are.

Harold

"Dave Baker" wrote in message
...

have needed to become perfectly serviceable. The leading edge can be
resharpened as often as you like without altering the size.

This displays quite vividy what you know / as opposed to what you *claim* to
know about tools and the metal working trade over all........

Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about the
diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do*
lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them.

--

SVL

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...
snip-

Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about
the
diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do*
lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them.


While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more gentle.
Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a
half thou taper in it's entire flute length.

You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank,
between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the
flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That
way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining its
size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large
number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by
my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room.

Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in that
you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited by
the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you
run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you generally
are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss.

Harold

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...
snip-

Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about
the
diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do*
lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them.


While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more
gentle.
Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a
half thou taper in it's entire flute length.

You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank,
between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the
flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That
way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining
its
size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large
number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by
my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room.

Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in
that
you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited
by
the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you
run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you
generally
are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss.


Harold,

Okay, I'll buy that--I just miked one and it came in ~ .0005 / in.
backtaper....

When you think about it, a reamer *can't* work properly with no taper--all
you have to do here is consider in theory what would happen if the taper
were reversed....tapered hole and entire flank would drag........

Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave a bit and just *couldnt resist*
the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately* changed on
sharpening a reamer--not much.....but still it *does* change, this being
contrary to his claim......

Now the .002 /in number I came up with is something I generally specify when
modifying an endmill for plunge-boring holes as a pre-reaming op....I musta
got that mixed up with standard reamer taper for some reason is all.

Cheers,

--

SVL

PrecisionMachinisT wrote in message
...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...
snip-

Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground
about
the
diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly
*do*
lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them.


While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more
gentle.
Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about
a
half thou taper in it's entire flute length.

You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the
shank,
between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the
flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it.
That
way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining
its
size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large
number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use
by
my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room.

Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in
that
you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're
limited
by
the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them,
you
run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you
generally
are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big
loss.


Harold,

Okay, I'll buy that--I just miked one and it came in ~ .0005 / in.
backtaper....

No **** Sherlock?


When you think about it, a reamer *can't* work properly with no taper--all
you have to do here is consider in theory what would happen if the taper
were reversed....tapered hole and entire flank would drag........

Thinking about it isn't your strong point then it seems. How do you suppose
reamers that are actually designed to produce tapers like taper pin reamers
and Morse taper reamers work if every reamer needs to have a back taper? Do
you even know what the back taper on a chucking reamer is there for or how
the amount of taper is determined?


Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave

How very mature of you whoever you are. I'll guess at either the numpty who
was banging on about honing not being able to compensate for the previous
machining op or his pal but I can't be bothered to hunt back through the
archives to find out. Must be a bit galling to have a swipe at someone else
and then end up finding you're talking absolute nonsense yourself though eh?


a bit and just *couldnt resist*
the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately*

The word you're grasping for here is 'definitely'

"Dave Baker" wrote in message
...

PrecisionMachinisT wrote in message
...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...
snip-

Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground
about
the
diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly
*do*
lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen
them.


While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more
gentle.
Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have
about
a
half thou taper in it's entire flute length.

You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the
shank,
between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for
the
flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it.
That
way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of
ruining
its
size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a
large
number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to
use
by
my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room.

Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in
that
you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're
limited
by
the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them,
you
run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you
generally
are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big
loss.


Harold,

Okay, I'll buy that--I just miked one and it came in ~ .0005 / in.
backtaper....

No **** Sherlock?


When you think about it, a reamer *can't* work properly with no
taper--all
you have to do here is consider in theory what would happen if the taper
were reversed....tapered hole and entire flank would drag........

Thinking about it isn't your strong point then it seems. How do you
suppose
reamers that are actually designed to produce tapers like taper pin
reamers
and Morse taper reamers work if every reamer needs to have a back taper?
Do
you even know what the back taper on a chucking reamer is there for or how
the amount of taper is determined?


Your obviously a freaking moron......

That's a *tapered* reamer, and its *designed* to produce a *tapered*
hole.....and it has little to nothing in similarity to a chucking reamer in
operation except they both enlarge holes.



Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave

How very mature of you whoever you are. I'll guess at either the numpty
who
was banging on about honing not being able to compensate for the previous
machining op or his pal but I can't be bothered to hunt back through the
archives to find out. Must be a bit galling to have a swipe at someone
else
and then end up finding you're talking absolute nonsense yourself though
eh?


Again, your idiocy is displayed......

Does a standard chucking reamer have backtaper or not ???


a bit and just *couldnt resist*
the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately*

The word you're grasping for here is 'definitely'



And what a compleat looser you are......

===

Actually, Ive spent ~3 decades machining--mostly aerospace, and most of it
to tighter tolerances than you could ever hope for playing with automotive
engines in your "speed shop".......

And once again, your clear off in left field when it comes to general
machining knowledge, as is the usual case.

--

SVL

PrecisionMachinisT wrote in message
...
When you think about it, a reamer *can't* work properly with no
taper--all
you have to do here is consider in theory what would happen if the
taper
were reversed....tapered hole and entire flank would drag........

Thinking about it isn't your strong point then it seems. How do you
suppose
reamers that are actually designed to produce tapers like taper pin
reamers
and Morse taper reamers work if every reamer needs to have a back taper?
Do
you even know what the back taper on a chucking reamer is there for or
how
the amount of taper is determined?


Your obviously a freaking moron......

That's a *tapered* reamer, and its *designed* to produce a *tapered*
hole.....and it has little to nothing in similarity to a chucking reamer
in
operation except they both enlarge holes.

No use trying to wriggle out of it now. You were quite clear that every
reamer 'had' to have a back taper or the 'entire flank would drag'. Even
hand reamers cut on a fair length of lead-in and socket reamers cut on the
whole flute. No 'dragging' involved apart from the slow and painful process
of trying to drag some sense out of you. Time to pop you in the killfile I
think because there are better things to spend time on than arguing with a
numpty who A) seems to know very little and B) has actually admitted that
harassing people rather than helping the OP is one of his aims.

Plonk.

"Tom" wrote in message
...
PrecisionMachinisT wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...
snip-

Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground
about
the
diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly
*do*
lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen
them.


While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more
gentle.
Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have
about a
half thou taper in it's entire flute length.

You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the
shank,
between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for
the
flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it.
That
way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of
ruining
its
size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a
large
number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to
use by
my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room.

Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in
that
you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're
limited
by
the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them,
you
run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you
generally
are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big
loss.


Harold,

..............................
Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave a bit and just *couldnt
resist*
the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately*
changed on
sharpening a reamer--not much.....but still it *does* change, this being
contrary to his claim......
..........................

Cheers,

--

SVL

If what you is true, there would be no point in sharpening reamers,
fortunately it isn't, machine reamer manufacturers cylindrically
grind the lands of the reamer to the true size for a distance,upwards
of .32", depending on diameter, adjacent to the bevel cutting edge.
That way the reamer can be sharpened a number of times before the
sharpening process incroachs on the back taper ground section of
the body. This "true" diameter also acts as guide & pilot for keeping
the hole in line..


And just where did you get this information from ???

--

SVL

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote in message
...

"Dave Baker" wrote in message
...

Harold and Susan Vordos wrote in message
...

"Philippe Gravelle" wrote in
message
...


I can only assume the subject says it all.

The only way to repair rusted reamers is to regrind them to a
different
size--------unless one can be happy with a tool that doesn't cut well.
It's
not something that one can do without a cutter or precision grinder,
but
best done on a precision grinder. Even then, the results would be
questionable.

Harold

Got to disagree I'm afraid. As reamers only cut on the leading edge I
don't
find it makes much difference what condition the flutes are in provided
there are no high spots. I've got a selection of old reamers with rust
specks all over them which I get from the local second hand tool shop
for
a
quid or so each and they all cut fine and to their nominal size. A quick
lick down the flutes with an oilstone to remove any burrs is all any of
them
have needed to become perfectly serviceable. The leading edge can be
resharpened as often as you like without altering the size.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk)

There's rust, and then there's rust. There was no information provided
so
I responded to the worst case scenario. Can't speak for you, but I've
ground (for size) and sharpened more than my share of reamers in my day
and
have a pretty good idea of what it takes to get one to cut size------and
not
seize in the hole, or tear it up due to chip welding.

I agree with your comments if the reamer has superficial rust. I totally

disagree if it has more. Notice I didn't say the reamers wouldn't
cut----I simply claim they cease to be a precision tool, such as reamers
are.

Sure, if the imperfections are bad enough then of course they'll have some
impact on performance but multi flute tooling is very tolerant of
imperfections compared to single point tooling. Even if one flute has a chip
or rust spot somewhere the chances are another flute is going to clean up
the job on its way past. It depends on the type of tolerances the operator
is trying to work to and even quality reamers have a fair tolerance on
cutting size anyway. Tolerance for the smallest reamer is about 3 or 4
tenths and over a thou for bigger ones. Yes you can buy very high precision
reamers, often carbide ones, that are made to closer tolerances than that
but it's unlikely to be of any concern to the average machinist.

As you say though the OP hasn't said what kind of reamers these are or what
he is hoping to do with them so it's all a bit academic at the moment.

"Tom" wrote in message
...
PrecisionMachinisT wrote:

"Tom" wrote in message
...
PrecisionMachinisT wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in
message
...
snip-

Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and
ground
about
the
diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they
certainly
*do*
lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen
them.


While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much
more
gentle.
Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have
about a
half thou taper in it's entire flute length.

You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the
shank,
between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper
for
the
flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize
it.
That
way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of
ruining
its
size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a
large
number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught
to
use by
my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room.

Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat
right in
that
you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're
limited
by
the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen
them,
you
run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you
generally
are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no
big
loss.


Harold,

..............................
Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave a bit and just *couldnt
resist*
the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately*
changed on
sharpening a reamer--not much.....but still it *does* change, this
being
contrary to his claim......
..........................

Cheers,

--

SVL

If what you is true, there would be no point in sharpening reamers,
fortunately it isn't, machine reamer manufacturers cylindrically
grind the lands of the reamer to the true size for a distance,upwards
of .32", depending on diameter, adjacent to the bevel cutting edge.
That way the reamer can be sharpened a number of times before the
sharpening process incroachs on the back taper ground section of
the body. This "true" diameter also acts as guide & pilot for keeping
the hole in line..


And just where did you get this information from ???

--

SVL

LOL, it was part of my formal engineering education..
However I did consult today, a Dormer twist Drill &
Reamer Handbook, to ensure that what I was taught &
learnt was correct.

Apparently I was a good pupil. :-)


Then Dormer may well be an exception to what is generally found in the
field--I actually measured quite a few reamers new out of the box today,
from various reputable manufacturers and even found a several that got a few
tenths bigger going up the shank.......

Preferably, and in most cases I would want the reamer to back taper all the
way--if not, they will often produce a poor finish in the softer materials,
as well as burnishing and possible tearing in the harder materials--this
something I have had to battle many times over, esp. in reaming hardened
steels like 4140 and what not, using carbide tipped reamers.......even to
the point where I eventually quit reaming altogether and instead opted to
use a boring head.

--

SVL

"Dave Baker" wrote in message


Plonk.


Hi Dave.

G

--

SVL

PrecisionMachinisT wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...
snip-

Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about
the
diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do*
lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them.


While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more
gentle.
Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a
half thou taper in it's entire flute length.

You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank,
between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the
flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That
way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining
its
size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large
number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by
my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room.

Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in
that
you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited
by
the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you
run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you
generally
are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss.


Harold,

..............................
Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave a bit and just *couldnt resist*
the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately* changed on
sharpening a reamer--not much.....but still it *does* change, this being
contrary to his claim......
..........................

Cheers,

--

SVL

If what you is true, there would be no point in sharpening reamers,
fortunately it isn't, machine reamer manufacturers cylindrically
grind the lands of the reamer to the true size for a distance,upwards
of .32", depending on diameter, adjacent to the bevel cutting edge.
That way the reamer can be sharpened a number of times before the
sharpening process incroachs on the back taper ground section of
the body. This "true" diameter also acts as guide & pilot for keeping
the hole in line..

Tom

PrecisionMachinisT wrote:

"Tom" wrote in message
...
PrecisionMachinisT wrote:

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
...

"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message
...
snip-

Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground
about
the
diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly
*do*
lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen
them.


While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more
gentle.
Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have
about a
half thou taper in it's entire flute length.

You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the
shank,
between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for
the
flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it.
That
way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of
ruining
its
size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a
large
number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to
use by
my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room.

Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in
that
you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're
limited
by
the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them,
you
run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you
generally
are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big
loss.


Harold,

..............................
Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave a bit and just *couldnt
resist*
the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately*
changed on
sharpening a reamer--not much.....but still it *does* change, this being
contrary to his claim......
..........................

Cheers,

--

SVL

If what you is true, there would be no point in sharpening reamers,
fortunately it isn't, machine reamer manufacturers cylindrically
grind the lands of the reamer to the true size for a distance,upwards
of .32", depending on diameter, adjacent to the bevel cutting edge.
That way the reamer can be sharpened a number of times before the
sharpening process incroachs on the back taper ground section of
the body. This "true" diameter also acts as guide & pilot for keeping
the hole in line..


And just where did you get this information from ???

--

SVL

LOL, it was part of my formal engineering education..
However I did consult today, a Dormer twist Drill &
Reamer Handbook, to ensure that what I was taught &
learnt was correct.

Apparently I was a good pupil. :-)

Tom