repairing rusted reamers
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Easy for you to say...
"Philippe Gravelle" wrote in message ... |
"Philippe Gravelle" wrote in message ... I can only assume the subject says it all. The only way to repair rusted reamers is to regrind them to a different size--------unless one can be happy with a tool that doesn't cut well. It's not something that one can do without a cutter or precision grinder, but best done on a precision grinder. Even then, the results would be questionable. Harold |
Harold and Susan Vordos wrote in message ... "Philippe Gravelle" wrote in message ... I can only assume the subject says it all. The only way to repair rusted reamers is to regrind them to a different size--------unless one can be happy with a tool that doesn't cut well. It's not something that one can do without a cutter or precision grinder, but best done on a precision grinder. Even then, the results would be questionable. Harold Got to disagree I'm afraid. As reamers only cut on the leading edge I don't find it makes much difference what condition the flutes are in provided there are no high spots. I've got a selection of old reamers with rust specks all over them which I get from the local second hand tool shop for a quid or so each and they all cut fine and to their nominal size. A quick lick down the flutes with an oilstone to remove any burrs is all any of them have needed to become perfectly serviceable. The leading edge can be resharpened as often as you like without altering the size. -- Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk) |
"Dave Baker" wrote in message ... Harold and Susan Vordos wrote in message ... "Philippe Gravelle" wrote in message ... I can only assume the subject says it all. The only way to repair rusted reamers is to regrind them to a different size--------unless one can be happy with a tool that doesn't cut well. It's not something that one can do without a cutter or precision grinder, but best done on a precision grinder. Even then, the results would be questionable. Harold Got to disagree I'm afraid. As reamers only cut on the leading edge I don't find it makes much difference what condition the flutes are in provided there are no high spots. I've got a selection of old reamers with rust specks all over them which I get from the local second hand tool shop for a quid or so each and they all cut fine and to their nominal size. A quick lick down the flutes with an oilstone to remove any burrs is all any of them have needed to become perfectly serviceable. The leading edge can be resharpened as often as you like without altering the size. -- Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk) There's rust, and then there's rust. There was no information provided so I responded to the worst case scenario. Can't speak for you, but I've ground (for size) and sharpened more than my share of reamers in my day and have a pretty good idea of what it takes to get one to cut size------and not seize in the hole, or tear it up due to chip welding. I agree with your comments if the reamer has superficial rust. I totally disagree if it has more. Notice I didn't say the reamers wouldn't cut----I simply claim they cease to be a precision tool, such as reamers are. Harold |
"Dave Baker" wrote in message ... have needed to become perfectly serviceable. The leading edge can be resharpened as often as you like without altering the size. This displays quite vividy what you know / as opposed to what you *claim* to know about tools and the metal working trade over all........ Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about the diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do* lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them. -- SVL |
"PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... snip- Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about the diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do* lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them. While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more gentle. Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a half thou taper in it's entire flute length. You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank, between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining its size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room. Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in that you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited by the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you generally are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss. Harold |
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... snip- Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about the diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do* lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them. While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more gentle. Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a half thou taper in it's entire flute length. You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank, between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining its size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room. Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in that you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited by the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you generally are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss. Harold, Okay, I'll buy that--I just miked one and it came in ~ .0005 / in. backtaper.... When you think about it, a reamer *can't* work properly with no taper--all you have to do here is consider in theory what would happen if the taper were reversed....tapered hole and entire flank would drag........ Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave a bit and just *couldnt resist* the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately* changed on sharpening a reamer--not much.....but still it *does* change, this being contrary to his claim...... Now the .002 /in number I came up with is something I generally specify when modifying an endmill for plunge-boring holes as a pre-reaming op....I musta got that mixed up with standard reamer taper for some reason is all. Cheers, -- SVL |
PrecisionMachinisT wrote in message ... "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... snip- Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about the diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do* lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them. While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more gentle. Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a half thou taper in it's entire flute length. You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank, between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining its size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room. Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in that you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited by the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you generally are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss. Harold, Okay, I'll buy that--I just miked one and it came in ~ .0005 / in. backtaper.... No **** Sherlock? When you think about it, a reamer *can't* work properly with no taper--all you have to do here is consider in theory what would happen if the taper were reversed....tapered hole and entire flank would drag........ Thinking about it isn't your strong point then it seems. How do you suppose reamers that are actually designed to produce tapers like taper pin reamers and Morse taper reamers work if every reamer needs to have a back taper? Do you even know what the back taper on a chucking reamer is there for or how the amount of taper is determined? Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave How very mature of you whoever you are. I'll guess at either the numpty who was banging on about honing not being able to compensate for the previous machining op or his pal but I can't be bothered to hunt back through the archives to find out. Must be a bit galling to have a swipe at someone else and then end up finding you're talking absolute nonsense yourself though eh? a bit and just *couldnt resist* the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately* The word you're grasping for here is 'definitely' |
"Dave Baker" wrote in message ... PrecisionMachinisT wrote in message ... "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... snip- Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about the diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do* lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them. While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more gentle. Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a half thou taper in it's entire flute length. You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank, between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining its size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room. Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in that you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited by the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you generally are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss. Harold, Okay, I'll buy that--I just miked one and it came in ~ .0005 / in. backtaper.... No **** Sherlock? When you think about it, a reamer *can't* work properly with no taper--all you have to do here is consider in theory what would happen if the taper were reversed....tapered hole and entire flank would drag........ Thinking about it isn't your strong point then it seems. How do you suppose reamers that are actually designed to produce tapers like taper pin reamers and Morse taper reamers work if every reamer needs to have a back taper? Do you even know what the back taper on a chucking reamer is there for or how the amount of taper is determined? Your obviously a freaking moron...... That's a *tapered* reamer, and its *designed* to produce a *tapered* hole.....and it has little to nothing in similarity to a chucking reamer in operation except they both enlarge holes. Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave How very mature of you whoever you are. I'll guess at either the numpty who was banging on about honing not being able to compensate for the previous machining op or his pal but I can't be bothered to hunt back through the archives to find out. Must be a bit galling to have a swipe at someone else and then end up finding you're talking absolute nonsense yourself though eh? Again, your idiocy is displayed...... Does a standard chucking reamer have backtaper or not ??? a bit and just *couldnt resist* the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately* The word you're grasping for here is 'definitely' And what a compleat looser you are...... === Actually, Ive spent ~3 decades machining--mostly aerospace, and most of it to tighter tolerances than you could ever hope for playing with automotive engines in your "speed shop"....... And once again, your clear off in left field when it comes to general machining knowledge, as is the usual case. -- SVL |
PrecisionMachinisT wrote in message ... When you think about it, a reamer *can't* work properly with no taper--all you have to do here is consider in theory what would happen if the taper were reversed....tapered hole and entire flank would drag........ Thinking about it isn't your strong point then it seems. How do you suppose reamers that are actually designed to produce tapers like taper pin reamers and Morse taper reamers work if every reamer needs to have a back taper? Do you even know what the back taper on a chucking reamer is there for or how the amount of taper is determined? Your obviously a freaking moron...... That's a *tapered* reamer, and its *designed* to produce a *tapered* hole.....and it has little to nothing in similarity to a chucking reamer in operation except they both enlarge holes. No use trying to wriggle out of it now. You were quite clear that every reamer 'had' to have a back taper or the 'entire flank would drag'. Even hand reamers cut on a fair length of lead-in and socket reamers cut on the whole flute. No 'dragging' involved apart from the slow and painful process of trying to drag some sense out of you. Time to pop you in the killfile I think because there are better things to spend time on than arguing with a numpty who A) seems to know very little and B) has actually admitted that harassing people rather than helping the OP is one of his aims. Plonk. |
"Tom" wrote in message ... PrecisionMachinisT wrote: "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... snip- Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about the diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do* lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them. While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more gentle. Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a half thou taper in it's entire flute length. You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank, between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining its size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room. Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in that you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited by the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you generally are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss. Harold, .............................. Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave a bit and just *couldnt resist* the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately* changed on sharpening a reamer--not much.....but still it *does* change, this being contrary to his claim...... .......................... Cheers, -- SVL If what you is true, there would be no point in sharpening reamers, fortunately it isn't, machine reamer manufacturers cylindrically grind the lands of the reamer to the true size for a distance,upwards of .32", depending on diameter, adjacent to the bevel cutting edge. That way the reamer can be sharpened a number of times before the sharpening process incroachs on the back taper ground section of the body. This "true" diameter also acts as guide & pilot for keeping the hole in line.. And just where did you get this information from ??? -- SVL |
Harold and Susan Vordos wrote in message ... "Dave Baker" wrote in message ... Harold and Susan Vordos wrote in message ... "Philippe Gravelle" wrote in message ... I can only assume the subject says it all. The only way to repair rusted reamers is to regrind them to a different size--------unless one can be happy with a tool that doesn't cut well. It's not something that one can do without a cutter or precision grinder, but best done on a precision grinder. Even then, the results would be questionable. Harold Got to disagree I'm afraid. As reamers only cut on the leading edge I don't find it makes much difference what condition the flutes are in provided there are no high spots. I've got a selection of old reamers with rust specks all over them which I get from the local second hand tool shop for a quid or so each and they all cut fine and to their nominal size. A quick lick down the flutes with an oilstone to remove any burrs is all any of them have needed to become perfectly serviceable. The leading edge can be resharpened as often as you like without altering the size. -- Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines (www.pumaracing.co.uk) There's rust, and then there's rust. There was no information provided so I responded to the worst case scenario. Can't speak for you, but I've ground (for size) and sharpened more than my share of reamers in my day and have a pretty good idea of what it takes to get one to cut size------and not seize in the hole, or tear it up due to chip welding. I agree with your comments if the reamer has superficial rust. I totally disagree if it has more. Notice I didn't say the reamers wouldn't cut----I simply claim they cease to be a precision tool, such as reamers are. Sure, if the imperfections are bad enough then of course they'll have some impact on performance but multi flute tooling is very tolerant of imperfections compared to single point tooling. Even if one flute has a chip or rust spot somewhere the chances are another flute is going to clean up the job on its way past. It depends on the type of tolerances the operator is trying to work to and even quality reamers have a fair tolerance on cutting size anyway. Tolerance for the smallest reamer is about 3 or 4 tenths and over a thou for bigger ones. Yes you can buy very high precision reamers, often carbide ones, that are made to closer tolerances than that but it's unlikely to be of any concern to the average machinist. As you say though the OP hasn't said what kind of reamers these are or what he is hoping to do with them so it's all a bit academic at the moment. |
"Tom" wrote in message ... PrecisionMachinisT wrote: "Tom" wrote in message ... PrecisionMachinisT wrote: "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... snip- Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about the diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do* lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them. While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more gentle. Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a half thou taper in it's entire flute length. You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank, between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining its size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room. Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in that you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited by the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you generally are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss. Harold, .............................. Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave a bit and just *couldnt resist* the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately* changed on sharpening a reamer--not much.....but still it *does* change, this being contrary to his claim...... .......................... Cheers, -- SVL If what you is true, there would be no point in sharpening reamers, fortunately it isn't, machine reamer manufacturers cylindrically grind the lands of the reamer to the true size for a distance,upwards of .32", depending on diameter, adjacent to the bevel cutting edge. That way the reamer can be sharpened a number of times before the sharpening process incroachs on the back taper ground section of the body. This "true" diameter also acts as guide & pilot for keeping the hole in line.. And just where did you get this information from ??? -- SVL LOL, it was part of my formal engineering education.. However I did consult today, a Dormer twist Drill & Reamer Handbook, to ensure that what I was taught & learnt was correct. Apparently I was a good pupil. :-) Then Dormer may well be an exception to what is generally found in the field--I actually measured quite a few reamers new out of the box today, from various reputable manufacturers and even found a several that got a few tenths bigger going up the shank....... Preferably, and in most cases I would want the reamer to back taper all the way--if not, they will often produce a poor finish in the softer materials, as well as burnishing and possible tearing in the harder materials--this something I have had to battle many times over, esp. in reaming hardened steels like 4140 and what not, using carbide tipped reamers.......even to the point where I eventually quit reaming altogether and instead opted to use a boring head. -- SVL |
"Dave Baker" wrote in message Plonk. Hi Dave. G -- SVL |
PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... snip- Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about the diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do* lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them. While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more gentle. Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a half thou taper in it's entire flute length. You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank, between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining its size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room. Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in that you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited by the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you generally are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss. Harold, .............................. Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave a bit and just *couldnt resist* the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately* changed on sharpening a reamer--not much.....but still it *does* change, this being contrary to his claim...... .......................... Cheers, -- SVL If what you is true, there would be no point in sharpening reamers, fortunately it isn't, machine reamer manufacturers cylindrically grind the lands of the reamer to the true size for a distance,upwards of .32", depending on diameter, adjacent to the bevel cutting edge. That way the reamer can be sharpened a number of times before the sharpening process incroachs on the back taper ground section of the body. This "true" diameter also acts as guide & pilot for keeping the hole in line.. Tom |
PrecisionMachinisT wrote:
"Tom" wrote in message ... PrecisionMachinisT wrote: "Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message ... "PrecisionMachinisT" wrote in message ... snip- Any chucking reamer has an inherent back taper designed and ground about the diameter....generally its ~.002 / inch--and as such, they certainly *do* lose a bit of diameter *each and every* time that you re-sharpen them. While chucking reamers do have taper as you suggest, it is much more gentle. Typically, a small chucking reamer (3/8", for example) would have about a half thou taper in it's entire flute length. You can usually tell if a reamer has been reground by checking the shank, between the flutes and the area used to grip the reamer. Taper for the flutes is generally set there before grinding a reamer to resize it. That way one can alter the size of a reamer by tenths with no risk of ruining its size while making the proper setup. As I said, I've reground a large number of reamers in my day, and that's the process I was taught to use by my mentor, who had spent his life time in the grinding room. Because chucking reamers cut on the chamfer, Dave is somewhat right in that you can sharpen them time and again and not lose size, but you're limited by the center hole on the cutting end. As you repeatedly sharpen them, you run into it, so you have to lose the center hole---but by then you generally are satisfied that the reamer cuts the desired size, so it's no big loss. Harold, .............................. Mainly I saw the opportunity to harass Dave a bit and just *couldnt resist* the temptation......my main point being that size is *definately* changed on sharpening a reamer--not much.....but still it *does* change, this being contrary to his claim...... .......................... Cheers, -- SVL If what you is true, there would be no point in sharpening reamers, fortunately it isn't, machine reamer manufacturers cylindrically grind the lands of the reamer to the true size for a distance,upwards of .32", depending on diameter, adjacent to the bevel cutting edge. That way the reamer can be sharpened a number of times before the sharpening process incroachs on the back taper ground section of the body. This "true" diameter also acts as guide & pilot for keeping the hole in line.. And just where did you get this information from ??? -- SVL LOL, it was part of my formal engineering education.. However I did consult today, a Dormer twist Drill & Reamer Handbook, to ensure that what I was taught & learnt was correct. Apparently I was a good pupil. :-) Tom |
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