Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #1   Report Post  
Aaron Kushner
 
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Default What width flat belt should I use?

I've got a 10" Senecca Star lathe that didn't come with a belt.

I read through many old posts on putting belts on lathes, but I
couldn't find anything definitive on what width belt to use. The
pulleys are 1 1/8" wide. One post mentioned that there should be
1/4" on each side, but that would leave only a 5/8" belt and that
doesn't seem very wide. Would a 3/4" - 1" belt work better?

I was planning on purchasing leather from McMaster and skiving
it, but I saw that they had NBR and SBR synthetic belts already
premade in the size I need. Would these be better than leather?
  #2   Report Post  
Grant Erwin
 
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Aaron Kushner wrote:

I've got a 10" Senecca Star lathe that didn't come with a belt.

I read through many old posts on putting belts on lathes, but I
couldn't find anything definitive on what width belt to use. The
pulleys are 1 1/8" wide. One post mentioned that there should be
1/4" on each side, but that would leave only a 5/8" belt and that
doesn't seem very wide. Would a 3/4" - 1" belt work better?

I was planning on purchasing leather from McMaster and skiving
it, but I saw that they had NBR and SBR synthetic belts already
premade in the size I need. Would these be better than leather?


Look under power transmission in your Yellow Pages and see if there's
a place near you that makes up flat belts still. Then go talk to them.
In Seattle the place is Peat Belting.

My 9" SB has 1" wide pulley flats and the book calls out a 7/8" belt.
I didn't know that at the time and am using a 1" belt, which works
fine. I don't think it's critical, but based on this if I were you I'd
buy a 1" belt.

If you can remove the spindle (often a good idea, lets you clean out
the headstock and renew the oil wicks, etc.) then you might want to
consider measuring the length you need and buying a timing belt that
length at the auto parts store, then turning it inside out. Those
belts are just great.

GWE
  #3   Report Post  
Dave Hinz
 
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On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 21:40:00 GMT, Aaron Kushner wrote:
I've got a 10" Senecca Star lathe that didn't come with a belt.

I read through many old posts on putting belts on lathes, but I
couldn't find anything definitive on what width belt to use. The
pulleys are 1 1/8" wide. One post mentioned that there should be
1/4" on each side, but that would leave only a 5/8" belt and that
doesn't seem very wide. Would a 3/4" - 1" belt work better?


For what it's worth, I used to have an old Bradford lathe (1910's
vintage or so I think) that used a 2" wide belt. The guy I got it
from put a final drive belt from a Harley-Davidson on it (smooth side
in), and it _never_ stretched. Might be worht considering,
but I have no idea how you could make it narrower if you needed to.
I can't imagine it'd be easy to slit.

I was planning on purchasing leather from McMaster and skiving
it, but I saw that they had NBR and SBR synthetic belts already
premade in the size I need. Would these be better than leather?


I was very happy with the synthetic belt in this application. Far
as I know, the guy I sold it to is still using it, and it's been
years.

Dave Hinz
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Ken Grunke
 
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Aaron Kushner wrote:
I've got a 10" Senecca Star lathe that didn't come with a belt.

I read through many old posts on putting belts on lathes, but I
couldn't find anything definitive on what width belt to use. The
pulleys are 1 1/8" wide. One post mentioned that there should be
1/4" on each side, but that would leave only a 5/8" belt and that
doesn't seem very wide. Would a 3/4" - 1" belt work better?

I was planning on purchasing leather from McMaster and skiving
it, but I saw that they had NBR and SBR synthetic belts already
premade in the size I need. Would these be better than leather?


As long as your pulleys are properly crowned, and the spindles are
aligned, a 1" belt should stay centered without rubbing on the next
larger step.
Grant's timing belt idea sounds great if they are flexible enough to hug
the whole width of the pulley, and not just ride on the peak of the crown.

Ken Grunke

--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl
  #5   Report Post  
Aaron Kushner
 
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Grant Erwin wrote:

If you can remove the spindle (often a good idea, lets you clean out
the headstock and renew the oil wicks, etc.) then you might want to
consider measuring the length you need and buying a timing belt that
length at the auto parts store, then turning it inside out. Those
belts are just great.


Thanks for the info. I went to the auto parts store and the only
belt I could find that was 48" long was a 3/4" flat belts that has
the grooves running the parallel to the edges. Is that the wrong
kind of belt?

I removed one of the spindle caps and there was some kind of paper
gasket material. Do I need to replace the gasket now that I've
opened it?

Also, not sure what wicking is, but this lathe has nifty little oil
caps that lift up and reveal a port in which to squirt oil. The
oil then fills a sump which has a revolving loop that seems to
distribute the oil around. Once I have the bearings open, is there
any other maintenance that I need to do.

Once again, thanks for all the help.

-Aaron



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Grant Erwin
 
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Aaron Kushner wrote:

Thanks for the info. I went to the auto parts store and the only
belt I could find that was 48" long was a 3/4" flat belts that has
the grooves running the parallel to the edges. Is that the wrong
kind of belt?


No, that one will work fine.

I can't answer a single one of your other questions, though.

GWE

I removed one of the spindle caps and there was some kind of paper
gasket material. Do I need to replace the gasket now that I've
opened it?

Also, not sure what wicking is, but this lathe has nifty little oil
caps that lift up and reveal a port in which to squirt oil. The
oil then fills a sump which has a revolving loop that seems to
distribute the oil around. Once I have the bearings open, is there
any other maintenance that I need to do.

Once again, thanks for all the help.

-Aaron

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Ken Grunke
 
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Aaron Kushner wrote:



I removed one of the spindle caps and there was some kind of paper
gasket material. Do I need to replace the gasket now that I've
opened it?


That material may be serving as a shim for the bearing cap, if I
understand you correctly. The bolts for the bearing caps should be
fairly tight--but if the spindle drags or stops turning, you need to add
shims between the bearing cap and headstock until you can tighten the
cap bolts without placing any drag on the spindle.
Normally metal is used, but I guess paper is OK. I've used aluminum can
pieces, about .003".


Also, not sure what wicking is, but this lathe has nifty little oil
caps that lift up and reveal a port in which to squirt oil. The
oil then fills a sump which has a revolving loop that seems to
distribute the oil around. Once I have the bearings open, is there
any other maintenance that I need to do.

I would just say to clean everything well, make sure no grit gets in
there to scratch the shaft journals.

Another thing to check is the spindle axial play, or movement in line
with the spindle. I'm not familiar with this particular lathe, but there
may (and should be) an adjustment collar or nut bearing against a thrust
washer, probably at the inside of the outboard bearing. If this is too
loose, you'll run into problems getting a good cut on anything chucked
or otherwise held in the headstock without tailstock support.

Ken Grunke



--
take da "ma" offa dot com fer eemayl
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Aaron Kushner
 
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Dave wrote:
Aaron,

I also have a 10" Seneca Falls Star lathe. My pulley sheaves are
1-1/4" wide, and I use a 1-1/4" belt, which has worked fine. The
smallest pulley sheave, where the belt might otherwise get pinched, is
actually about 1-5/16".


Thanks everyone for all the good information about the belts and
adjusting the spindle. Hopefully I'll get the lathe working
this weekend.

-Aaron
  #9   Report Post  
Tom Miller
 
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Default


"Aaron Kushner" wrote in message
...
Grant Erwin wrote:

If you can remove the spindle (often a good idea, lets you clean out
the headstock and renew the oil wicks, etc.) then you might want to
consider measuring the length you need and buying a timing belt that
length at the auto parts store, then turning it inside out. Those
belts are just great.


Thanks for the info. I went to the auto parts store and the only
belt I could find that was 48" long was a 3/4" flat belts that has
the grooves running the parallel to the edges. Is that the wrong
kind of belt?


That is not a timing belt, I think its what is called a Microgroove belt
here in Aus. I might work though. The timing belts are very strong as they
have either steel wire or Kevlar in the flat part of the belt. I think a
company called Gates makes them in the US.





I removed one of the spindle caps and there was some kind of paper
gasket material. Do I need to replace the gasket now that I've
opened it?


No! I suspect that that material is used to set the clearance between the
bearing halves and the shaft. It is important that the clearance is correct
as if it is too loose the shaft will wobble in the bearings and you will get
a poor accuracy and finish on your work. If its too tight, It will sieze
onto the shaft and melt the bearing material. For general purpose shafts on
industrial machinery, we gererally used a "rule of thumb "of one thou
clearance per inch of shaft diameter. It may be a bit tighter for a machine
tool.You can check it by using "Plastigage" which should be available from
an automotive supply. Put a piece of the material on the shaft and assemble
the bearing and torque it up to specs. Remove the bearing cap (without
turning the shaft) and use the width gauge on the packaging to determine the
bearing clearance





Also, not sure what wicking is, but this lathe has nifty little oil
caps that lift up and reveal a port in which to squirt oil. The
oil then fills a sump which has a revolving loop that seems to
distribute the oil around. Once I have the bearings open, is there
any other maintenance that I need to do.

Once again, thanks for all the help.

-Aaron



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Glenn Lyford
 
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That is not a timing belt, I think its what is called
a Microgroove belt here in Aus.


The common US term is "serpentine belt".
--Glenn Lyford

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