while I'm on a posting roll...

I've used pickling paste on 316L for the last few of my sculptures,
but I've had a disturbing thing happening... While it brightens the
stainless (almost a blue tint) and removes all the little surface rust
spots, it also leaves a coating... almost of a 'smudged' look..

I leave the past on for about 15 to 20 minutes and agitate it with a
nylon brush before rinsing and rubbing (with my rubber gloves on) it
off.

What Am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

James, Seattle (port orchard, Washington, USA, Earth

"RainLover" wrote in message
...
while I'm on a posting roll...

I've used pickling paste on 316L for the last few of my sculptures,
but I've had a disturbing thing happening... While it brightens the
stainless (almost a blue tint) and removes all the little surface rust
spots, it also leaves a coating... almost of a 'smudged' look..

I leave the past on for about 15 to 20 minutes and agitate it with a
nylon brush before rinsing and rubbing (with my rubber gloves on) it
off.

What Am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

James, Seattle (port orchard, Washington, USA, Earth

Sorry I cant give an answer to your question about the smudging, but please
be super careful with that pickling paste. It may contain hydro-fluoric acid
which is shocking stuff if you get it on your skin. Look up the material
saftey notes on it. Please be careful with it.

Sorry to sound like a worry wart but I'd hate someone to loose fingers
simply because they didn't know how bad this stuff can be.

Dean.

In article ,
"Dean" wrote:

"RainLover" wrote in message
...
while I'm on a posting roll...

I've used pickling paste on 316L for the last few of my sculptures,
but I've had a disturbing thing happening... While it brightens the
stainless (almost a blue tint) and removes all the little surface rust
spots, it also leaves a coating... almost of a 'smudged' look..

I leave the past on for about 15 to 20 minutes and agitate it with a
nylon brush before rinsing and rubbing (with my rubber gloves on) it
off.

What Am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

James, Seattle (port orchard, Washington, USA, Earth

Sorry I cant give an answer to your question about the smudging, but please
be super careful with that pickling paste. It may contain hydro-fluoric acid
which is shocking stuff if you get it on your skin. Look up the material
saftey notes on it. Please be careful with it.

Sorry to sound like a worry wart but I'd hate someone to loose fingers
simply because they didn't know how bad this stuff can be.

Fingers hell... According to what I've heard/read over the years,
spilling hydroflouric acid on your fingertips equals "We're going to
need to take your arm off at the shoulder - Just to be sure."

--
Don Bruder - - New Email policy in effect as of Feb. 21, 2004.
Short form: I'm trashing EVERY E-mail that doesn't contain a password in the
subject unless it comes from a "whitelisted" (pre-approved by me) address.
See http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd/main/contact.html for full details.

It's even worse than you think. If it gets inside of you it will
literally attack you from the inside out. You don't even have to get in
your mouth or breath it. It will absorb through the skin. I knew a guy
years ago working in a plant that used hydrofluoric acid for
electropolishing metals. He accidentally tripped and managed to step
into an open shallow vat of it. Got only up to his ankles as I recall.
They didn't stop the absorption fast enough and it got inside of him.
Literally corroded him from the inside out. Attacked his bones in
particular. Took him a few days to die. What a bloody horrible way to
go. Made me sick to my stomach when I heard what had happened to him.
If this pickling material does contain HF then be VERY careful. There is
a special cream you can get if you are working with HF. I think it's
calcium gluconate. If you get any HF on you get this cream on the
affected area ASAP.

Sorry I cant give an answer to your question about the smudging, but
please be super careful with that pickling paste. It may contain
hydro-fluoric acid which is shocking stuff if you get it on your
skin. Look up the material saftey notes on it. Please be careful with
it.

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:10:08 -0700, RainLover wrote:
while I'm on a posting roll...

I've used pickling paste on 316L for the last few of my sculptures,
but I've had a disturbing thing happening... While it brightens the
stainless (almost a blue tint) and removes all the little surface rust
spots, it also leaves a coating... almost of a 'smudged' look..

I leave the past on for about 15 to 20 minutes and agitate it with a
nylon brush before rinsing and rubbing (with my rubber gloves on) it
off.

What Am I doing wrong?

Nothing. The acid is just etching the surface (that's what pickling is
supposed to do). If you want it shiny, you'll have to polish it after pickling.

Gary

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:51:28 +0800, "Dean"
wrote:


"RainLover" wrote in message
.. .
while I'm on a posting roll...

I've used pickling paste on 316L for the last few of my sculptures,
but I've had a disturbing thing happening... While it brightens the
stainless (almost a blue tint) and removes all the little surface rust
spots, it also leaves a coating... almost of a 'smudged' look..

I leave the past on for about 15 to 20 minutes and agitate it with a
nylon brush before rinsing and rubbing (with my rubber gloves on) it
off.

What Am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

James, Seattle (port orchard, Washington, USA, Earth

Sorry I cant give an answer to your question about the smudging, but please
be super careful with that pickling paste. It may contain hydro-fluoric acid
which is shocking stuff if you get it on your skin. Look up the material
saftey notes on it. Please be careful with it.

Sorry to sound like a worry wart but I'd hate someone to loose fingers
simply because they didn't know how bad this stuff can be.

Dean.

HI Dean...Thanks for the warning... I know how nasty Hydo-fluoric acid
is and it DOES contain it, along with some other nasties. I wear a
full organic facemask/filter, long sleeves, chemical gloves and have a
hose right next to me in case of accident.

It's the "worry warts" that have all their eyes and ears and skin when
they retire.....

James, Seattle

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 04:27:10 -0400, Gary Coffman
wrote:

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 18:10:08 -0700, RainLover wrote:
while I'm on a posting roll...

I've used pickling paste on 316L for the last few of my sculptures,
but I've had a disturbing thing happening... While it brightens the
stainless (almost a blue tint) and removes all the little surface rust
spots, it also leaves a coating... almost of a 'smudged' look..

I leave the past on for about 15 to 20 minutes and agitate it with a
nylon brush before rinsing and rubbing (with my rubber gloves on) it
off.

What Am I doing wrong?

Nothing. The acid is just etching the surface (that's what pickling is
supposed to do). If you want it shiny, you'll have to polish it after pickling.

Gary

Hm... that's too bad. I put a 'texture' into the stainless steel so
any other machining would destroy it... any idea how I could pickle
it AND have it be shiny afterwards?

James, Seattle

electropolishing seems to be the only way, but i think it will remove about
40 microns of surface material

Would some type of blast media satisfy your needs?

Bob S.

Guys - Be very careful with any chemical and/or welding or brazing alloys or
products you use. WHMIS regulations that came out in the early 1990's
worldwide made it law that all such products should have any hazards listed
clearly on the product itself on what they call a WHMIS label, and that a
MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET be available from wherever you purchase the
product. This gives the name of the manufacturer, Distributor, all of the
ingredients, their percentages and all hazards.
If your product doesn't come with that or you can't access it - drop the
product. Any reputable manufacturer will provide all safety precautions on
their products and/or hazards.
Sincerely Yours,
Judy M
RainLover wrote in message
...
while I'm on a posting roll...

I've used pickling paste on 316L for the last few of my sculptures,
but I've had a disturbing thing happening... While it brightens the
stainless (almost a blue tint) and removes all the little surface rust
spots, it also leaves a coating... almost of a 'smudged' look..

I leave the past on for about 15 to 20 minutes and agitate it with a
nylon brush before rinsing and rubbing (with my rubber gloves on) it
off.

What Am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

James, Seattle (port orchard, Washington, USA, Earth

In article , RainLover
wrote:

while I'm on a posting roll...

I've used pickling paste on 316L for the last few of my sculptures,
but I've had a disturbing thing happening... While it brightens the
stainless (almost a blue tint) and removes all the little surface rust
spots, it also leaves a coating... almost of a 'smudged' look..

I leave the past on for about 15 to 20 minutes and agitate it with a
nylon brush before rinsing and rubbing (with my rubber gloves on) it
off.

What Am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

James, Seattle (port orchard, Washington, USA, Earth


Hi James.
Besides all the warnings about the hazards of Hydrofluoric Acid, I
thought I might help you a little.

The haze is usually where you have etched the metal.
If the haze refuses to come off with a mechanical process, like a wire
wheel on a grinder, then I wonder if you are making the mistake of
puting it on when the metal is still hot .
Always wait until he metal is cold to the touch.

I went to Citric Acid Passivation 2 years ago and have never regretted
it.
No toxic chemicals and it works very fast.

If you are intertested you can come by my shop in Renton and I can demo
it for you, or maybe you can lure me out to your shop finally.

I can usually be bribed with food and gas money.

The stuff I use is type 9002 Citrisurf

You can check it out here.

http://www.stellarsolutions.net/

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 09:08:06 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

In article , RainLover
wrote:

while I'm on a posting roll...

I've used pickling paste on 316L for the last few of my sculptures,
but I've had a disturbing thing happening... While it brightens the
stainless (almost a blue tint) and removes all the little surface rust
spots, it also leaves a coating... almost of a 'smudged' look..

I leave the past on for about 15 to 20 minutes and agitate it with a
nylon brush before rinsing and rubbing (with my rubber gloves on) it
off.

What Am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

James, Seattle (port orchard, Washington, USA, Earth


Hi James.
Besides all the warnings about the hazards of Hydrofluoric Acid, I
thought I might help you a little.

The haze is usually where you have etched the metal.
If the haze refuses to come off with a mechanical process, like a wire
wheel on a grinder, then I wonder if you are making the mistake of
puting it on when the metal is still hot .
Always wait until he metal is cold to the touch.

I went to Citric Acid Passivation 2 years ago and have never regretted
it.
No toxic chemicals and it works very fast.

If you are intertested you can come by my shop in Renton and I can demo
it for you, or maybe you can lure me out to your shop finally.

I can usually be bribed with food and gas money.

The stuff I use is type 9002 Citrisurf

You can check it out here.

http://www.stellarsolutions.net/

Hi Ernie,

I've been wanting to get out to your place for over a year now... I
really need to. I looked at teh Citrisurf web site and it looks like
the stainless needs to be put into a hot bath of the product, is that
the case? it would be difficult for me to make a tank that would
accomodate my sculpture since every one is a different (and large)
size.

How do you do it? I like the brush application of the Hydrofluoric
Paste, but I definately don't like the acid itself!

Thanks,
James, Port Orchard

In article , RainLover
wrote:

On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 09:08:06 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
wrote:

In article , RainLover
wrote:

while I'm on a posting roll...

I've used pickling paste on 316L for the last few of my sculptures,
but I've had a disturbing thing happening... While it brightens the
stainless (almost a blue tint) and removes all the little surface rust
spots, it also leaves a coating... almost of a 'smudged' look..

I leave the past on for about 15 to 20 minutes and agitate it with a
nylon brush before rinsing and rubbing (with my rubber gloves on) it
off.

What Am I doing wrong?

Thanks,

James, Seattle (port orchard, Washington, USA, Earth


Hi James.
Besides all the warnings about the hazards of Hydrofluoric Acid, I
thought I might help you a little.

The haze is usually where you have etched the metal.
If the haze refuses to come off with a mechanical process, like a wire
wheel on a grinder, then I wonder if you are making the mistake of
puting it on when the metal is still hot .
Always wait until he metal is cold to the touch.

I went to Citric Acid Passivation 2 years ago and have never regretted
it.
No toxic chemicals and it works very fast.

If you are intertested you can come by my shop in Renton and I can demo
it for you, or maybe you can lure me out to your shop finally.

I can usually be bribed with food and gas money.

The stuff I use is type 9002 Citrisurf

You can check it out here.

http://www.stellarsolutions.net/

Hi Ernie,

I've been wanting to get out to your place for over a year now... I
really need to. I looked at teh Citrisurf web site and it looks like
the stainless needs to be put into a hot bath of the product, is that
the case? it would be difficult for me to make a tank that would
accomodate my sculpture since every one is a different (and large)
size.

How do you do it? I like the brush application of the Hydrofluoric
Paste, but I definately don't like the acid itself!

Thanks,
James, Port Orchard




I use Electro-passivation.
I apply the citrisurf with a wand that is connected to one side of a 36
volt DC power source.
The other side is grounded to the piece.
The paste carries the electrical current which catalizes the citric
acid.
It is extremely fast and very non-toxic.

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 22:57:25 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
calmly ranted:

I use Electro-passivation.
I apply the citrisurf with a wand that is connected to one side of a 36
volt DC power source.
The other side is grounded to the piece.
The paste carries the electrical current which catalizes the citric
acid.
It is extremely fast and very non-toxic.

Does it leave a pristine surface, no "brush marks"?


================================================== ========
CAUTION: Do NOT look directly into laser with remaining eyeball!
================================================== ========
http://www.diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:
[pickling]
I use Electro-passivation.
I apply the citrisurf with a wand that is connected to one side of a 36
volt DC power source.
The other side is grounded to the piece.
The paste carries the electrical current which catalizes the citric
acid.
It is extremely fast and very non-toxic.

Can you describe the wand? Is it just a metal rod or does it have a
conductive (carbon?) brush? (I mean brush in the paint, rather than DC
motor, sense)


Tim
--
Guns Don’t Kill People, Rappers Do.

In article , Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 22:57:25 GMT, Ernie Leimkuhler
calmly ranted:

I use Electro-passivation.
I apply the citrisurf with a wand that is connected to one side of a 36
volt DC power source.
The other side is grounded to the piece.
The paste carries the electrical current which catalizes the citric
acid.
It is extremely fast and very non-toxic.

Does it leave a pristine surface, no "brush marks"?


No brush marks.
If you leave the wand in one spot too long you can etch the surface.

It works very well for removing oxidation colors from brushed stainless
without harming the brushed surface.

In article , Tim Auton
wrote:

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:
[pickling]
I use Electro-passivation.
I apply the citrisurf with a wand that is connected to one side of a 36
volt DC power source.
The other side is grounded to the piece.
The paste carries the electrical current which catalizes the citric
acid.
It is extremely fast and very non-toxic.

Can you describe the wand? Is it just a metal rod or does it have a
conductive (carbon?) brush? (I mean brush in the paint, rather than DC
motor, sense)


Tim

The wand is a 7 inch long piece of 1/4" copper tube.
The last 1-1/2 inches on one end is hammered flat, making a paddle
shape about 1/2 inch wide and 1-1/2 inch long.
The remaining round tube section is sheathed in a 5 inch length of
acrylic tubing to act as an insulator.
The electrical wire is slid into the round end of the tube and swaged
in.

A piece of coarse scotchbrite pad measuring 1 inch x 4 inches is
wrapped around the end of the paddle and held in place with a small
plastic ziptie.

To use you dip the scotchbrite pad into the citrisurf solution and
scrub the weld area with the piece grounded.

It works very fast.

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:
In article , Tim Auton
wrote:
Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:
[pickling]
I use Electro-passivation.
I apply the citrisurf with a wand that is connected to one side of a 36
volt DC power source.
[snip]

Can you describe the wand? Is it just a metal rod or does it have a
conductive (carbon?) brush? (I mean brush in the paint, rather than DC
motor, sense)

The wand is a 7 inch long piece of 1/4" copper tube.
[snip description]

To use you dip the scotchbrite pad into the citrisurf solution and
scrub the weld area with the piece grounded.

Elegant simplicity. Thanks.


Tim
--
Guns Don’t Kill People, Rappers Do.

On Mon, 06 Sep 2004 04:25:46 +0100, Tim Auton
calmly ranted:

Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:
[pickling]
I use Electro-passivation.
I apply the citrisurf with a wand that is connected to one side of a 36
volt DC power source.
The other side is grounded to the piece.
The paste carries the electrical current which catalizes the citric
acid.
It is extremely fast and very non-toxic.

Can you describe the wand? Is it just a metal rod or does it have a
conductive (carbon?) brush? (I mean brush in the paint, rather than DC
motor, sense)

I was going to guess a sponge on a pair of jumper cables (like
the fun they had with Gibson in "Lethal Weapon") but Ernie got
a bit fancier.

(Thanks for the info, Ernie.)


..-.
Life is short. Eat dessert first!
---
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