I said I would tell Iggy when one of the Walmart LED light bulbs failed And it happened two days ago. Yesterday I went by Walmart and got a replacement. About the same price but noticeably different. The original had a frosted bulb, and the replacement is clear. And the LED is more or less like a filament.

But the real difference is that the replacement failed the same day it was installed. I replaced it with another bulb from the same box. We will see if it is infant mortality or what.

Dan

wrote on 8/8/2018 8:05 AM:

I said I would tell Iggy when one of the Walmart LED light bulbs failed And it happened two days ago. Yesterday I went by Walmart and got a replacement. About the same price but noticeably different. The original had a frosted bulb, and the replacement is clear. And the LED is more or less like a filament.

But the real difference is that the replacement failed the same day it was installed. I replaced it with another bulb from the same box. We will see if it is infant mortality or what.

Dan


Everywhere in the world is converting to LED bulbs. LED bulbs are longer
lasting and more fuel efficient. However, the US light bulb
manufacturers have strong aversion to LED bulbs. They probably conspire
to deliberately make or import lousy LED bulbs to buck the trend.

It is the same thing like everywhere in the world is using Celsius and
kilograms, while the US is still using Fahrenheit and pounds. We are a
bunch of very sick people here.

On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 6:02:14 AM UTC-7, raykeller wrote:

Everywhere in the world is converting to LED bulbs. LED bulbs are longer
lasting and more fuel efficient. However, the US light bulb
manufacturers have strong aversion to LED bulbs. They probably conspire
to deliberately make or import lousy LED bulbs to buck the trend.

No, it's worse than that. Everyone wants LEDs, so they're being churned
out to fit into existing fixtures that are completely inappropriate for LED technology.

Incandescent bulbs tolerate elevated temperatures, and radiate in 4pi steradians.
They work on high voltage AC.
LEDs last long at low temperatures, and radiate in 2pi steradians. They work
on low voltage DC. But, the 'LED' items in the store are intended to screw into
incandescent bulb sockets.

So, (1) heat dissipation is poor (you can't get 3k lumen LED lighting into this form factor)
(2) every AC-powered lamp must convert the voltage down OR must put so many LEDs in series
that reliabilty suffers, (3) there is a host of incompatibiiities with dimmers, lighted
switches, and RF interference being problems. For some (actually very good)
LED lamps, a few years' use will lower the efficiency BUT you can't replace the
dim LED; you have to buy an entire new fixture.

Probably in a decade we'll see ballast-plus-lamp systems that let you use a DC converter
(like a ballast) with replaceable lamps, that get good illumination coverage in
area lighting, task lighting, spot lighting, etc. The 'compatible' screw-in LED
items won't be the best LED lighting available.

I've been buying the basic LED A series replacements for a few years now,
and what you say about heat dissipation is right.
They hate to run in a base up configuration. Anything above a 60w equivalent
will burn out lickety split when run base up. Even the 60w equivalents have
a seriously shortened life because all the heat gets trapped in the base
where the electronics are.
That said, the quality of light they produce has improved greatly over the
last few years.

Paul K. Dickman

"whit3rd" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 6:02:14 AM UTC-7, raykeller wrote:

Everywhere in the world is converting to LED bulbs. LED bulbs are longer
lasting and more fuel efficient. However, the US light bulb
manufacturers have strong aversion to LED bulbs. They probably conspire
to deliberately make or import lousy LED bulbs to buck the trend.

No, it's worse than that. Everyone wants LEDs, so they're being churned
out to fit into existing fixtures that are completely inappropriate for
LED technology.

Incandescent bulbs tolerate elevated temperatures, and radiate in 4pi
steradians.
They work on high voltage AC.
LEDs last long at low temperatures, and radiate in 2pi steradians. They
work
on low voltage DC. But, the 'LED' items in the store are intended to
screw into
incandescent bulb sockets.

So, (1) heat dissipation is poor (you can't get 3k lumen LED lighting into
this form factor)
(2) every AC-powered lamp must convert the voltage down OR must put so
many LEDs in series
that reliabilty suffers, (3) there is a host of incompatibiiities with
dimmers, lighted
switches, and RF interference being problems. For some (actually very
good)
LED lamps, a few years' use will lower the efficiency BUT you can't
replace the
dim LED; you have to buy an entire new fixture.

Probably in a decade we'll see ballast-plus-lamp systems that let you use
a DC converter
(like a ballast) with replaceable lamps, that get good illumination
coverage in
area lighting, task lighting, spot lighting, etc. The 'compatible'
screw-in LED
items won't be the best LED lighting available.

Paul K. Dickman wrote:
I've been buying the basic LED A series replacements for a few years now,
and what you say about heat dissipation is right.
They hate to run in a base up configuration. Anything above a 60w equivalent
will burn out lickety split when run base up. Even the 60w equivalents have
a seriously shortened life because all the heat gets trapped in the base
where the electronics are.

I have a few ceiling lights I have been thinking of putting LED into.
How are they on their side?

Stephen B.

--
Remove first spam only to reply

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:59:34 -0400, "Stephen B."
wrote:

Paul K. Dickman wrote:
I've been buying the basic LED A series replacements for a few years now,
and what you say about heat dissipation is right.
They hate to run in a base up configuration. Anything above a 60w equivalent
will burn out lickety split when run base up. Even the 60w equivalents have
a seriously shortened life because all the heat gets trapped in the base
where the electronics are.

I have a few ceiling lights I have been thinking of putting LED into.
How are they on their side?

Stephen B.


I have LED PAR lights - several years now with no problem. Also
Philips "flat" type LRDs base up in enclosed fixtures - over 5 years
now. I had a bunch of cheap chinese crap GR10 and mr16 bulbs that went
like flashbulbs - then I replaced them with brand name (Philips and
Noma) GR10s and they are standing upo REALLY well.

I've got a lot of TCP A19s in base-up configuration - no failures yet
out of 36 in one installation - almost 2 years now - both 60 and 100
watt equivalents.

There are lots of cheap crap LEDs that are not worth taking home

Horizontal works fine. Even a slight angle like the ones in my track
lighting seem to work fine.
I have a half dozen lamps that burn 24-7. These are the ones I replaced
first because the energy savings were worth it. The ones that burn base up
have all been replaced three times, the others are on their first bulb.
These were either Phillips or Sylvania and all their 8w (60 watt eq).
Understand, the time on the burned out ones was probably 10k hours. but the
others are pushing 30k.
I could probably send them back under warranty, but around here, the basic
bulbs are heavily subsidized by the local power company and only cost about
a buck.

Paul K. Dickman


"Stephen B." wrote in message
news
Paul K. Dickman wrote:
I've been buying the basic LED A series replacements for a few years now,
and what you say about heat dissipation is right.
They hate to run in a base up configuration. Anything above a 60w
equivalent
will burn out lickety split when run base up. Even the 60w equivalents
have
a seriously shortened life because all the heat gets trapped in the base
where the electronics are.

I have a few ceiling lights I have been thinking of putting LED into.
How are they on their side?

Stephen B.

--
Remove first spam only to reply

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 11:54:15 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 6:02:14 AM UTC-7, raykeller wrote:

Everywhere in the world is converting to LED bulbs. LED bulbs are longer
lasting and more fuel efficient. However, the US light bulb
manufacturers have strong aversion to LED bulbs. They probably conspire
to deliberately make or import lousy LED bulbs to buck the trend.

Always the conspiracy, huh?


No, it's worse than that. Everyone wants LEDs, so they're being churned
out to fit into existing fixtures that are completely inappropriate for LED technology.

"completely inappropriate?" Really? They seem to be working fine for
me. Of course, I didn't buy dollar store quality lamps. About the
only places I can quickly think of where LEDs are inappropriate are
unvented recessed ceiling cans and ceiling fan lights.

Incandescent bulbs tolerate elevated temperatures, and radiate in 4pi steradians.
They work on high voltage AC.

LEDs last long at low temperatures, and radiate in 2pi steradians. They work
on low voltage DC. But, the 'LED' items in the store are intended to screw into
incandescent bulb sockets.

You don't have a clue! Last year I bought a couple of top-of-the-line
Osram 100 equiv watt continuous spectrum lamps at Home Depot for $9
each. One quickly failed. The other has been in service for a little
over a year.

Rather than do a warranty claim, I decided to dissect the failed lamp.
Inside I found a bridge rectifier, a small filter cap and a 4 terminal
ASIC constant current regulator. The LEDs are mounted on a post to
put them in essentially the same position a filament would be.

The radiation pattern is essentially the same as the CFL I replaced it
with. After 10+ years, the CFL was still just fine but I wanted to
use the fixture over my bed for the test.

It radiates plenty of light downward for me to read by. Lots out the
side with the remainder toward the ceiling, the scatter from which
illuminates the whole room.

When I moved to my cabin about 15 years ago, I replaced all the
incandescent lamps with quality GE 100 watt equiv CFLs purchased at
Sam's club. Most are still going strong. I've replaced 4 this year.
15 years is a mighty good performance record. I write the
installation date on each lamp using a Sharpie. These had operated so
long that the Sharpie had almost faded.

If I get that kind of performance out of the LEDs, I will be
well-pleased.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:05:59 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 11:54:15 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 6:02:14 AM UTC-7, raykeller wrote:

Everywhere in the world is converting to LED bulbs. LED bulbs are longer
lasting and more fuel efficient. However, the US light bulb
manufacturers have strong aversion to LED bulbs. They probably conspire
to deliberately make or import lousy LED bulbs to buck the trend.

Always the conspiracy, huh?


No, it's worse than that. Everyone wants LEDs, so they're being churned
out to fit into existing fixtures that are completely inappropriate for LED technology.

"completely inappropriate?" Really? They seem to be working fine for
me. Of course, I didn't buy dollar store quality lamps. About the
only places I can quickly think of where LEDs are inappropriate are
unvented recessed ceiling cans and ceiling fan lights.

They've been working fine in my ceiling fan for several years

Incandescent bulbs tolerate elevated temperatures, and radiate in 4pi steradians.
They work on high voltage AC.

LEDs last long at low temperatures, and radiate in 2pi steradians. They work
on low voltage DC. But, the 'LED' items in the store are intended to screw into
incandescent bulb sockets.

You don't have a clue! Last year I bought a couple of top-of-the-line
Osram 100 equiv watt continuous spectrum lamps at Home Depot for $9
each. One quickly failed. The other has been in service for a little
over a year.

Rather than do a warranty claim, I decided to dissect the failed lamp.
Inside I found a bridge rectifier, a small filter cap and a 4 terminal
ASIC constant current regulator. The LEDs are mounted on a post to
put them in essentially the same position a filament would be.

The radiation pattern is essentially the same as the CFL I replaced it
with. After 10+ years, the CFL was still just fine but I wanted to
use the fixture over my bed for the test.

The first 10? CFLs I installed all lasted less than a year. The last
batch was lasting pretty good - but the ones that failed failked
pretty spectacularly.

Thecheap-assed Chinese noname LEDS I bought were pretty spotty, but
the brandname stuff has been very VERYgood. NO failures yet ( some are
now almost 3 years old)

It radiates plenty of light downward for me to read by. Lots out the
side with the remainder toward the ceiling, the scatter from which
illuminates the whole room.

When I moved to my cabin about 15 years ago, I replaced all the
incandescent lamps with quality GE 100 watt equiv CFLs purchased at
Sam's club. Most are still going strong. I've replaced 4 this year.
15 years is a mighty good performance record. I write the
installation date on each lamp using a Sharpie. These had operated so
long that the Sharpie had almost faded.

If I get that kind of performance out of the LEDs, I will be
well-pleased.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

Clare Snyder wrote on 8/15/2018 2:09 PM:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:05:59 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 11:54:15 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:

On Wednesday, August 8, 2018 at 6:02:14 AM UTC-7, raykeller wrote:

Everywhere in the world is converting to LED bulbs. LED bulbs are longer
lasting and more fuel efficient. However, the US light bulb
manufacturers have strong aversion to LED bulbs. They probably conspire
to deliberately make or import lousy LED bulbs to buck the trend.
Always the conspiracy, huh?

No, it's worse than that. Everyone wants LEDs, so they're being churned
out to fit into existing fixtures that are completely inappropriate for LED technology.
"completely inappropriate?" Really? They seem to be working fine for
me. Of course, I didn't buy dollar store quality lamps. About the
only places I can quickly think of where LEDs are inappropriate are
unvented recessed ceiling cans and ceiling fan lights.
They've been working fine in my ceiling fan for several years

There should be enough air movement around the ceiling fan to cool the
lights.



Incandescent bulbs tolerate elevated temperatures, and radiate in 4pi steradians.
They work on high voltage AC.
LEDs last long at low temperatures, and radiate in 2pi steradians. They work
on low voltage DC. But, the 'LED' items in the store are intended to screw into
incandescent bulb sockets.
You don't have a clue! Last year I bought a couple of top-of-the-line
Osram 100 equiv watt continuous spectrum lamps at Home Depot for $9
each. One quickly failed. The other has been in service for a little
over a year.

Rather than do a warranty claim, I decided to dissect the failed lamp.
Inside I found a bridge rectifier, a small filter cap and a 4 terminal
ASIC constant current regulator. The LEDs are mounted on a post to
put them in essentially the same position a filament would be.

The radiation pattern is essentially the same as the CFL I replaced it
with. After 10+ years, the CFL was still just fine but I wanted to
use the fixture over my bed for the test.
The first 10? CFLs I installed all lasted less than a year. The last
batch was lasting pretty good - but the ones that failed failked
pretty spectacularly.

Thecheap-assed Chinese noname LEDS I bought were pretty spotty, but
the brandname stuff has been very VERYgood. NO failures yet ( some are
now almost 3 years old)
It radiates plenty of light downward for me to read by. Lots out the
side with the remainder toward the ceiling, the scatter from which
illuminates the whole room.

When I moved to my cabin about 15 years ago, I replaced all the
incandescent lamps with quality GE 100 watt equiv CFLs purchased at
Sam's club. Most are still going strong. I've replaced 4 this year.
15 years is a mighty good performance record. I write the
installation date on each lamp using a Sharpie. These had operated so
long that the Sharpie had almost faded.

If I get that kind of performance out of the LEDs, I will be
well-pleased.

John

John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

On Wednesday, August 15, 2018 at 11:09:59 AM UTC-7, Clare wrote:
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:05:59 -0400, Neon John wrote:

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 11:54:15 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd
wrote:


... Everyone wants LEDs, so they're being churned
out to fit into existing fixtures that are completely inappropriate for LED technology.

"completely inappropriate?" Really? They seem to be working fine for
me.

They've been working fine in my ceiling fan for several years

That's a simple functional test; yes, you can make light. But, an appropriate
design would USE the differences from incandescent lamps, not just work
around some of them.

After a few years, an LED will lose efficiency (halflife unknown, but something
like 5 years). So, for my ceiling fixture that takes three bulbs, I'd be replacing
three LED-and-phosphor lamps, three heatsinks, and three AC/DC converters
everytime I put new bulbs in. And, I'd be fiddling with screw-in sockets
that were designed for Edison lamps of a century ago.

Redesigned fixtures can be more effiective in a dozen ways, and few if any fixtures are
so small today that they couldn't heatsink a much brighter bunch of LEDs (if only they'd
been designed with that in mind). Hobbyists putting strips of LEDs into long linear
mounts are doing better than the engineers that package LEDs in bulb format. And,
those linear strips are arguably less failure-prone.

On 2018-08-08, wrote:

I said I would tell Iggy when one of the Walmart LED light bulbs failed And it happened two days ago. Yesterday I went by Walmart and got a replacement. About the same price but noticeably different. The original had a frosted bulb, and the replacement is clear. And the LED is more or less like a filament.

But the real difference is that the replacement failed the same day
it was installed. I replaced it with another bulb from the same
box. We will see if it is infant mortality or what.

It is a special kind of infant called "WALMART INFANT"