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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them
Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out
with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just folds like a cheap suit. With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications, but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push. So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod? 4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and tempering. Is something else better? |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:51:46 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote: Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just folds like a cheap suit. With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications, but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push. So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod? 4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and tempering. Is something else better? What do you mean they "fold"? Do you mean they bend? Good ones are made of good tool steel. I never had one "fold." Do you know what brand they are? The traditional tool steel for "pounding" is S6. It's moderately strong and bend-resistant. It's big thing is that it's shock-resistant. The best combinations of strength and shock resistance are proprietary grades of vanadium tool steel. But it's unlikely they'll be much more resistant to bending than any good-quality pin punch. The properties of W1 depend on how you heat-treat it. It is NOT an alloy steel. Basically, it's a good grade of plain high-carbon steel. 4140 is similar to S6, except that is has a little bit lower alloy components and no vanadium. S6 contains 0.2 - 0.4% vanadium. -- Ed Huntress |
#3
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Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them
On 3/22/2018 5:06 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:51:46 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote: Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just folds like a cheap suit. With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications, but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push. So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod? 4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and tempering. Is something else better? What do you mean they "fold"? Do you mean they bend? Good ones are made of good tool steel. I never had one "fold." Do you know what brand they are? The traditional tool steel for "pounding" is S6. It's moderately strong and bend-resistant. It's big thing is that it's shock-resistant. The best combinations of strength and shock resistance are proprietary grades of vanadium tool steel. But it's unlikely they'll be much more resistant to bending than any good-quality pin punch. The properties of W1 depend on how you heat-treat it. It is NOT an alloy steel. Basically, it's a good grade of plain high-carbon steel. 4140 is similar to S6, except that is has a little bit lower alloy components and no vanadium. S6 contains 0.2 - 0.4% vanadium. S6 sounded interesting. I tried to look it up at my usual sources, but didn't find it. One source has S5 and S7 and another just has S7. S7 actually looks very promising, but of course I have no experience with it. |
#4
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Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:24:39 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote: On 3/22/2018 5:06 PM, Ed Huntress wrote: On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:51:46 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote: Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just folds like a cheap suit. With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications, but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push. So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod? 4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and tempering. Is something else better? What do you mean they "fold"? Do you mean they bend? Good ones are made of good tool steel. I never had one "fold." Do you know what brand they are? The traditional tool steel for "pounding" is S6. It's moderately strong and bend-resistant. It's big thing is that it's shock-resistant. The best combinations of strength and shock resistance are proprietary grades of vanadium tool steel. But it's unlikely they'll be much more resistant to bending than any good-quality pin punch. The properties of W1 depend on how you heat-treat it. It is NOT an alloy steel. Basically, it's a good grade of plain high-carbon steel. 4140 is similar to S6, except that is has a little bit lower alloy components and no vanadium. S6 contains 0.2 - 0.4% vanadium. S6 sounded interesting. I tried to look it up at my usual sources, but didn't find it. One source has S5 and S7 and another just has S7. S7 actually looks very promising, but of course I have no experience with it. That whole S-series (for "shock") is a graduated series of alloys. S5 or S7 ought to be as good for pin punches. The fine discriminations come into play in tools that do repeated pounding, generally under power. Here's a good rundown on S5: https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6247 You can look them up on MatWeb to see the differences -- I think. Good luck! -- Ed Huntress |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them
On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:51:47 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:
With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications, but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push. So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod? 4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and tempering. Is something else better? Do not know about better, but I make pin punches out of exhaust valves. And just turn them using carbide inserts. So no heat treating required. Having the pin part as big in diameter as possible helps as does having the pin part as short as possible. I get exhaust valves from places that do automotive machining. Dan |
#6
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Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just folds like a cheap suit. With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications, but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push. So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod? 4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and tempering. Is something else better? The long parallel drive punches will never hold up to heavy hammering. They are not really designed to, they are designed to push the pin the rest of the way through the hole. To start one, you should use a tapered punch with a tip small enough to push the pin just past the surface. Once the pin's grip has been broken, then you use the drive punch. I use nail sets, 'cause they're cheap and readily available. Paul K. Dickman |
#7
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Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 18:51:44 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:51:47 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote: With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications, but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push. So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod? 4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and tempering. Is something else better? Do not know about better, but I make pin punches out of exhaust valves. And just turn them using carbide inserts. So no heat treating required. Having the pin part as big in diameter as possible helps as does having the pin part as short as possible. I get exhaust valves from places that do automotive machining. Dan Just make sure you don't try this with a sodium filled valve. -Gene Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain 1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream 2004 17' G3 CC 1756 Out of Shallotte, NC |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them
On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:51:47 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote: With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications, but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push. So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod? 4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and tempering. Is something else better? For my last intractable in problem -- wheel on a TroyBilt tiller -- I cut the shank off an unrecoverable SnapOn phillips screw driver, drilled a matching hole in the end of a 3/4" sq m/s rod, wedged the screw driver shank into the hole. Application of a 5# hammer removed the frozen-in pin. And the punch remains in good shape, too. -- Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:51:46 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote: Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just folds like a cheap suit. With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications, but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push. So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod? 4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and tempering. Is something else better? 4340 heat treated. Though the ones i normally use are O1 --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
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