Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old February 8th 17, 05:51 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Millermatic 250MP Technical Manual

I have a friends Millermatic 250MP that I am trying to repair. Local
Miller said that the Microprocessor Board is bad, obsolete...

I have the Operators Manual:

https://www.millerwelds.com/files/ow...O1308K_MIL.pdf

It has decent interconnection stuff but just block diagrams for the
main and micro boards. Even with the microprocessor board disconnected
I can't get the wire drive to work. They were sold with manual knobs
(250) and with a Microprocessor/LCD display (250MP). The latter has
menus push-buttons, cool features. This is what I'm working on. Wanted
to prove to myself that the main board was okay. In theory it should
work with just a few jumpers and resistors. Most of it does, except the
wire drive. If I can get it working this way I'll go back to seeing why
the micro board seems to be dead. If I can't figure out the micro board
I may just rebuild it as the simple analog version. That would still be
a nice MIG machine.

I've pretty much exhausted my searching for one. Per a Miller forum and
weldingweb.com forum there is a Tech Manual for it. I don't belong to
either forum so can't nicely ask for one. Hate to sign up and then
start begging right away...

So... does anyone happen to have this manual or can link me to a
download?

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Old February 9th 17, 01:11 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Millermatic 250MP Technical Manual

On 02/08/2017 10:51 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
It has decent interconnection stuff but just block diagrams for the
main and micro boards. Even with the microprocessor board disconnected
I can't get the wire drive to work. They were sold with manual knobs
(250) and with a Microprocessor/LCD display (250MP). The latter has
menus push-buttons, cool features. This is what I'm working on. Wanted
to prove to myself that the main board was okay. In theory it should
work with just a few jumpers and resistors. Most of it does, except the
wire drive. If I can get it working this way I'll go back to seeing why
the micro board seems to be dead. If I can't figure out the micro board
I may just rebuild it as the simple analog version. That would still be
a nice MIG machine.


I don't have the tech manual, but if you follow the traces on the main
board for the motor output back to the motor driver, It is a good bet
that the power device that drives the motor is toasted. There might be
some kind of interlock on it, but usually the highest power handling
device in a circuit is the first thing to fail. You can do a lot of
reverse engineering with manufacturer data sheets for the parts in the
circuit.

Look at power supply voltages around the driver circuit. If they look
sane, and you can see all the inputs to the circuits (from the data
sheets) behaving in a way that makes sense, I would swap the output devices.

Good Luck,
BobH
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Old February 9th 17, 02:09 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Millermatic 250MP Technical Manual

On 2017-02-08, Leon Fisk wrote:
I have a friends Millermatic 250MP that I am trying to repair. Local
Miller said that the Microprocessor Board is bad, obsolete...

I have the Operators Manual:

https://www.millerwelds.com/files/ow...O1308K_MIL.pdf

It has decent interconnection stuff but just block diagrams for the
main and micro boards.


This sounds like the _Technical Reference Manual_ for a computer
I used quite a bit back when. It had the full schematics for the main
system board, and various plugin-boards (no not PC compatible at all),
but two things had no such schematics. The card in the video monitor,
and the switching power supply.

Both were made by other companies, and I don't think that this
company even *had* the schematics. They just specified what they wanted
it to do (and the pin locations for the power supply connector) and it
arrived from the manufacturer. End of game.

[ ... ]

I've pretty much exhausted my searching for one. Per a Miller forum and
weldingweb.com forum there is a Tech Manual for it. I don't belong to
either forum so can't nicely ask for one. Hate to sign up and then
start begging right away...


The tech manual may not have those schematics, either. But it
may have more troubleshooting info, so you could verify where the
problem really is. It sounds like it is in the wire feed, or perhaps
some sensor which verifies that the wire is there before turning on the
motor.

So... does anyone happen to have this manual or can link me to a
download?


No such luck here. Sorry.

Good Luck,
DoN.

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Old February 9th 17, 02:26 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Millermatic 250MP Technical Manual

Leon Fisk wrote:
I've pretty much exhausted my searching for one. Per a Miller forum and
weldingweb.com forum there is a Tech Manual for it. I don't belong to
either forum so can't nicely ask for one. Hate to sign up and then
start begging right away...



You might try a two-step search. Look for the tech manual and check the
previews offered by the fee-based manual sites. That might disclose the
document number of the tech manual, quite possibly same as the owner's
manual, but with a TM prefix instead of OM. Then try a web search for
that number.


The Miller forum folks are helpful to a point, but behave as if there's
a lawyer sitting on their shoulder. Since it's a company forum, likely
that's the case.

bob prohaska

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Old February 9th 17, 12:32 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Millermatic 250MP Technical Manual

On Wed, 8 Feb 2017 18:11:49 -0700
BobH wrote:

snip
I don't have the tech manual, but if you follow the traces on the main
board for the motor output back to the motor driver, It is a good bet
that the power device that drives the motor is toasted. There might be
some kind of interlock on it, but usually the highest power handling
device in a circuit is the first thing to fail. You can do a lot of
reverse engineering with manufacturer data sheets for the parts in the
circuit.

Look at power supply voltages around the driver circuit. If they look
sane, and you can see all the inputs to the circuits (from the data
sheets) behaving in a way that makes sense, I would swap the output devices.


Thanks for the advice. I'm a retired two-way radio tech with lots of
other dabbling in devices. That is what I've been doing so far.
Internet access helps a lot nowadays. Beats looking through a shelf
full of old IC books anyday Tedious work and tail chasing though when
you can't see how everything kinda works and links together. I sorely
miss the multi-color board layouts, circuit theory and diagrams in
the good manuals I used back then...

Figured this to be a long shot but I might get lucky

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Old February 9th 17, 03:36 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Millermatic 250MP Technical Manual

On 2/8/2017 12:51 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
I have a friends Millermatic 250MP that I am trying to repair. Local
Miller said that the Microprocessor Board is bad, obsolete...
...


Does Miller have a repair service for the board? If not, their attitude
is: "You can't get a new board & we won't fix it, so the welder is junk"?

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Old February 9th 17, 05:14 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Millermatic 250MP Technical Manual

On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 10:36:41 -0500
Bob Engelhardt wrote:

On 2/8/2017 12:51 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
I have a friends Millermatic 250MP that I am trying to repair. Local
Miller said that the Microprocessor Board is bad, obsolete...
...


Does Miller have a repair service for the board? If not, their attitude
is: "You can't get a new board & we won't fix it, so the welder is junk"?


They weren't given any options for any price from what I understand. I
didn't find anyone selling the board nor any place offering to repair
it (neither did he). The main circuit board is still available for ~$510
and I found at least four places with offers to repair that board. It
seems the main board is also used in the Syncrowave. Probably why it is
still available...

Kind of sad, the machine is circa 1996.

I'm not so sure it is really bad. I'm having problems with the main
circuit board too. Without seeing how the two boards interface together
I wouldn't yet condemn it...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Old February 9th 17, 11:19 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Millermatic 250MP Technical Manual

On Thu, 09 Feb 2017 10:36:41 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

On 2/8/2017 12:51 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
I have a friends Millermatic 250MP that I am trying to repair. Local
Miller said that the Microprocessor Board is bad, obsolete...
...


Does Miller have a repair service for the board? If not, their attitude
is: "You can't get a new board & we won't fix it, so the welder is junk"?


Given the price of their equipment, that's a horrible attitude for
blue to have. I wonder how many people go red as a result. g

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Old February 10th 17, 11:09 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Millermatic 250MP Technical Manual

On Thu, 9 Feb 2017 13:14:36 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:


They weren't given any options for any price from what I understand. I
didn't find anyone selling the board nor any place offering to repair
it (neither did he). The main circuit board is still available for ~$510
and I found at least four places with offers to repair that board. It
seems the main board is also used in the Syncrowave. Probably why it is
still available...

Kind of sad, the machine is circa 1996.


So true. I try not to buy anything that contains consumer
electronics. We were looking at stoves at Lowe's a couple of days
ago. I told my wife just to pass on by any stove that didn't have
analog control knobs. The burners are easy but it's hard to find an
analog oven controller.

Anyway, I used to moonlight for a very good friend of mine, Jerry
Brown of Jerry's Electric Motor Service, 423 472-5959. I used to do
some board level repair for him but as stuff gained more big chip
blobs with no documentation, I had to back off.

He found a company that can repair literally any board, be it a
control board from a heat pump with BLDC motors to PLC boards. Quite
inexpensive too. You might give Jerry a call and tell him I (John
DeArmond) told you to call. He might take the board for repair or he
might just put you in touch with the company he uses.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

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Old February 12th 17, 12:27 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Millermatic 250MP Technical Manual

On Fri, 10 Feb 2017 18:09:37 -0500
Neon John wrote:

snip
You might give Jerry a call and tell him I (John
DeArmond) told you to call. He might take the board for repair or he
might just put you in touch with the company he uses.


Thanks for the reply, advice. I'll pass this on to my friend if I fail
to get it fixed. It is a personal machine so it isn't stopping
production or slowing business options.

The technology used in this machine is stuff I used to work with,
repair. I'm familiar with all of it just not in how it is being used.
The lack of schematics and board layouts for the main and
microprocessor circuit boards is the biggest time suck, annoyance...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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