On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 09:41:50 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 11:40:52 AM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 10:07:49 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:


James, one of the things you might keep in mind is the arc of the
front/back of the kayaks when you go over a rounded drive or mound at
the beach/river. You don't want the kayak digging into the blacktop,
rocks, or dirt. Check your elevations, since the wheels will be in
the center. The end will be 8.5' back from the pivot point.

How will you fasten it to the bike? 3-point mini-pintle?

Thanks for the advice on length. While I'm going with 16" wheels, I still haven't decided if I want the trailer deck OVER the wheels Between the wheels. A lower center of gravity makes good sense, but the wheels will limit width, and as you said, the odds of scrapping the back of the trailer/load goes up the lower it is.

As for the Hitch, still researching. I'd PREFER a hitch that pivots with the bike's lean, but so far I've only found a proprietary system that they won't sell separately from their trailer (Bushtec).

Hitch? Simply put a decent sized air coupler between the hitch and
the trailer

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...r&_sacat=12576

You will of course have a universal joint or a swivel, then the above
coupler. Using 1/2" or 3/4" air coupler allows the thing to pivot and
swivel in line and act as a quick connect for your trailer as well. No
need to break out a tool to remove the trailer..simply pull the ring
and disconnect it.


A brass AIR COUPLER? I'm skeptical that a coupler designed to sit still connecting an air line would survive the stresses and vibration of a trailer. I LIKE the idea, but. . . .

James
I use a steel one for my bicycle trailer

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 16:11:45 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The stuff on the plane is .016 to .030" thick. The trailer is minimum
3/16 inch - mostly 1/4 inch wall.

It's very difficult to weld any aluminum alloy above the 5000 series
without creating a crack-sensitive joint. And 5000 series and below
are not very strong. Besides that, 5052, which is used a lot in boats,
has a "cracking peak" at 2.5% magnesium, so you need to use filler
that will supply plenty of extra magnesium to be sure your weld
doesn't hit the cracking peak after welding.

6061 is very crack sensitive if you use insufficient filler metal.
Welds in 6061 are tricky because welding exceeds the artificial ageing
temperature; your heat-affected zone will be a mess of varying
hardness and ductility, and it will change over time.

It is almost impossible to produce a weld in aluminum that is as
strong as the base metal. In contrast, mild-steel welds generally are
close in strength and ductility to the base metal.

Thus, they don't weld aluminum on aircraft. They aren't welding the
new aluminum car chassis, either.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The boat trailer is probably not made from 6061 aluminum :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 16:32:23 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 16:11:45 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The stuff on the plane is .016 to .030" thick. The trailer is minimum
3/16 inch - mostly 1/4 inch wall.

It's very difficult to weld any aluminum alloy above the 5000 series
without creating a crack-sensitive joint. And 5000 series and below
are not very strong. Besides that, 5052, which is used a lot in boats,
has a "cracking peak" at 2.5% magnesium, so you need to use filler
that will supply plenty of extra magnesium to be sure your weld
doesn't hit the cracking peak after welding.

6061 is very crack sensitive if you use insufficient filler metal.
Welds in 6061 are tricky because welding exceeds the artificial ageing
temperature; your heat-affected zone will be a mess of varying
hardness and ductility, and it will change over time.

It is almost impossible to produce a weld in aluminum that is as
strong as the base metal. In contrast, mild-steel welds generally are
close in strength and ductility to the base metal.

Thus, they don't weld aluminum on aircraft. They aren't welding the
new aluminum car chassis, either.
The only welded aluminum parts on our plane are the fuel tanks. I
believe also the only parts that are not 6061.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:32:39 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The boat trailer is probably not made from 6061 aluminum :-)
Actually, it is.
See
http://www.easternmetal.com/pdfs/alu...components.pdf

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 21:26:15 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 16:32:23 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 16:11:45 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The stuff on the plane is .016 to .030" thick. The trailer is minimum
3/16 inch - mostly 1/4 inch wall.

It's very difficult to weld any aluminum alloy above the 5000 series
without creating a crack-sensitive joint. And 5000 series and below
are not very strong. Besides that, 5052, which is used a lot in boats,
has a "cracking peak" at 2.5% magnesium, so you need to use filler
that will supply plenty of extra magnesium to be sure your weld
doesn't hit the cracking peak after welding.

6061 is very crack sensitive if you use insufficient filler metal.
Welds in 6061 are tricky because welding exceeds the artificial ageing
temperature; your heat-affected zone will be a mess of varying
hardness and ductility, and it will change over time.

It is almost impossible to produce a weld in aluminum that is as
strong as the base metal. In contrast, mild-steel welds generally are
close in strength and ductility to the base metal.

Thus, they don't weld aluminum on aircraft. They aren't welding the
new aluminum car chassis, either.
The only welded aluminum parts on our plane are the fuel tanks. I
believe also the only parts that are not 6061.

A guess: 2219. Popular for welded tanks, and one of the few of the
2000 series that welds well.

My old partner in the machine shop had some that came into our shop to
be modified for a new filler neck. We had no idea what it was, so we
sent it out to our favorite welding shop. They had no idea what it
was, either. g

Apparently it's well-known among airframe mechanics.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 09:41:50 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 11:40:52 AM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 10:07:49 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:


James, one of the things you might keep in mind is the arc of the
front/back of the kayaks when you go over a rounded drive or mound at
the beach/river. You don't want the kayak digging into the blacktop,
rocks, or dirt. Check your elevations, since the wheels will be in
the center. The end will be 8.5' back from the pivot point.

How will you fasten it to the bike? 3-point mini-pintle?

Thanks for the advice on length. While I'm going with 16" wheels, I still haven't decided if I want the trailer deck OVER the wheels Between the wheels. A lower center of gravity makes good sense, but the wheels will limit width, and as you said, the odds of scrapping the back of the trailer/load goes up the lower it is.

As for the Hitch, still researching. I'd PREFER a hitch that pivots with the bike's lean, but so far I've only found a proprietary system that they won't sell separately from their trailer (Bushtec).

Hitch? Simply put a decent sized air coupler between the hitch and
the trailer

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...r&_sacat=12576

You will of course have a universal joint or a swivel, then the above
coupler. Using 1/2" or 3/4" air coupler allows the thing to pivot and
swivel in line and act as a quick connect for your trailer as well. No
need to break out a tool to remove the trailer..simply pull the ring
and disconnect it.


A brass AIR COUPLER? I'm skeptical that a coupler designed to sit still connecting an air line would survive the stresses and vibration of a trailer. I LIKE the idea, but. . . .

James

Air couplers seldom ever "sit still"...and the parts that do the heavy
work are ball bearings. You do know that they are rated for a minimum
of 300 PSI..and most will do 1200 PSI..which simply shows their
inherent strength. Which is the reason I suggested 3/4" with 1/2" as
a distant second..and not the typical 3/8" coupler

If you dont like the idea of brass ones..simply buy a steel one.

Gunner

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On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 16:12:43 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 09:35:27 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 12:04:02 PM UTC-7, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 7 Aug 2016 18:08:48 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Hi Larry,

I'm actually planning on using a Timbren suspension system http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Axle...n/A4RS440.html It's highly sensitive and will take most of the bounce out of the trailer.

Big question at this point...is what is the MINIMUM weight that the
Timbren will properly work at. Looking at it...Im going to say...you
are way way too light to get it working properly.

You would be better off making a sliding shackle and stuffing in a
piece of urathane..and hell of a lot cheaper

Timbren has suspension that's rated as low as 400lbs max... I'm hoping that at 150lbs empty-weight of the trailer the suspension will still be active.
The suspension is rated at 400 lb PER UNIT - which is 800 lbs. It
will be almost solid with your load.

Ayup. Absolutely no benefit to these in this application

Gunner

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On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 21:38:50 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:32:39 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The boat trailer is probably not made from 6061 aluminum :-)
Actually, it is.
See
http://www.easternmetal.com/pdfs/alu...components.pdf

I can't tell from the photo but I seriously doubt that a welded
trailer would have been built from 6061T6 as the materials list shows.

If for no other reason than the area around every weld would have
magically lost about half its strength (ultimate tensile strength).
Why would one want to built a trailer of relatively high priced, high
strength, aluminum and deliberately destroy the strength of the
aluminum?
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:19:05 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 21:38:50 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:32:39 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
m...
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The boat trailer is probably not made from 6061 aluminum :-)
Actually, it is.
See
http://www.easternmetal.com/pdfs/alu...components.pdf

I can't tell from the photo but I seriously doubt that a welded
trailer would have been built from 6061T6 as the materials list shows.

If for no other reason than the area around every weld would have
magically lost about half its strength (ultimate tensile strength).
Why would one want to built a trailer of relatively high priced, high
strength, aluminum and deliberately destroy the strength of the
aluminum?
My son-in-law has an aluminum boat trailer made of 6061T651 - some
parts are welded, some are bolted. Being a high end factory built
trailer the weldments MAY have been heat treated - but T6 or T651
returns to about a T4 in less than a year after welding, and keeps
getting better from there.

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 23:40:45 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:19:05 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 21:38:50 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:32:39 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
om...
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The boat trailer is probably not made from 6061 aluminum :-)
Actually, it is.
See
http://www.easternmetal.com/pdfs/alu...components.pdf

I can't tell from the photo but I seriously doubt that a welded
trailer would have been built from 6061T6 as the materials list shows.

If for no other reason than the area around every weld would have
magically lost about half its strength (ultimate tensile strength).
Why would one want to built a trailer of relatively high priced, high
strength, aluminum and deliberately destroy the strength of the
aluminum?
My son-in-law has an aluminum boat trailer made of 6061T651 - some
parts are welded, some are bolted. Being a high end factory built
trailer the weldments MAY have been heat treated - but T6 or T651
returns to about a T4 in less than a year after welding, and keeps
getting better from there.

Which is partially true. Although it isn't quite that simple. The
ageing/artificial aging process is largely dependent on the pre aging
solution heat treatment. If you melt 606T6 it looses much of its pre
welded properties and if the ageing process doesn't start from a
maximum solution treatment than there is no way of telling what is
going to occur See" https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=7392
for a more in depth discussion with additional references.

And, while it is "probably good enough for a fish boat" as my Maine
State relatives might say it could be a different story for a flying
machine :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle. It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions &
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 12:59:58 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 23:40:45 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:19:05 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 21:38:50 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:32:39 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:dfeiqb1ob8tjbbij2le2ufknqpi15bafb2@4ax. com...
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The boat trailer is probably not made from 6061 aluminum :-)
Actually, it is.
See
http://www.easternmetal.com/pdfs/alu...components.pdf

I can't tell from the photo but I seriously doubt that a welded
trailer would have been built from 6061T6 as the materials list shows.

If for no other reason than the area around every weld would have
magically lost about half its strength (ultimate tensile strength).
Why would one want to built a trailer of relatively high priced, high
strength, aluminum and deliberately destroy the strength of the
aluminum?
My son-in-law has an aluminum boat trailer made of 6061T651 - some
parts are welded, some are bolted. Being a high end factory built
trailer the weldments MAY have been heat treated - but T6 or T651
returns to about a T4 in less than a year after welding, and keeps
getting better from there.

Which is partially true. Although it isn't quite that simple. The
ageing/artificial aging process is largely dependent on the pre aging
solution heat treatment. If you melt 606T6 it looses much of its pre
welded properties and if the ageing process doesn't start from a
maximum solution treatment than there is no way of telling what is
going to occur See" https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=7392
for a more in depth discussion with additional references.

And, while it is "probably good enough for a fish boat" as my Maine
State relatives might say it could be a different story for a flying
machine :-)
Which is why aluminum parts on planes are very seldom welded - while
6061T6xxx aluminum is very commonly welded for trailers and
applications like dump truck boxes, feed trucks, garden carts, etc -
and even boats, both large and small.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:49:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle. It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions &
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.


6061 has pretty good corrosion resistance, even when scratches.
Generally not used below the waterline (immersed) in large boats, but
used extensively in aircraft pontoons and a lot of aluminum
pleasurecraft

wrote in message
news
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:49:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle.
It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most
common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions
&
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to
sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.


6061 has pretty good corrosion resistance, even when scratches.
Generally not used below the waterline (immersed) in large boats, but
used extensively in aircraft pontoons and a lot of aluminum
pleasurecraft

Well, I've only worked on a few small boats, but they all "felt"
(cut/welded) more like 5052.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:47:41 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:49:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle. It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions &
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.


6061 has pretty good corrosion resistance, even when scratches.
Generally not used below the waterline (immersed) in large boats, but
used extensively in aircraft pontoons and a lot of aluminum
pleasurecraft

Grumman canoes are made from 5052 aluminum


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On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:49:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle. It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions &
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.


I don't know about submarines but 6061 is fairly commonly used on
masts and spars on sail boats.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:32:38 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 12:59:58 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 23:40:45 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:19:05 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 21:38:50 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:32:39 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:dfeiqb1ob8tjbbij2le2ufknqpi15bafb2@4ax .com...
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The boat trailer is probably not made from 6061 aluminum :-)
Actually, it is.
See
http://www.easternmetal.com/pdfs/alu...components.pdf

I can't tell from the photo but I seriously doubt that a welded
trailer would have been built from 6061T6 as the materials list shows.

If for no other reason than the area around every weld would have
magically lost about half its strength (ultimate tensile strength).
Why would one want to built a trailer of relatively high priced, high
strength, aluminum and deliberately destroy the strength of the
aluminum?
My son-in-law has an aluminum boat trailer made of 6061T651 - some
parts are welded, some are bolted. Being a high end factory built
trailer the weldments MAY have been heat treated - but T6 or T651
returns to about a T4 in less than a year after welding, and keeps
getting better from there.

Which is partially true. Although it isn't quite that simple. The
ageing/artificial aging process is largely dependent on the pre aging
solution heat treatment. If you melt 606T6 it looses much of its pre
welded properties and if the ageing process doesn't start from a
maximum solution treatment than there is no way of telling what is
going to occur See" https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=7392
for a more in depth discussion with additional references.

And, while it is "probably good enough for a fish boat" as my Maine
State relatives might say it could be a different story for a flying
machine :-)
Which is why aluminum parts on planes are very seldom welded - while
6061T6xxx aluminum is very commonly welded for trailers and
applications like dump truck boxes, feed trucks, garden carts, etc -
and even boats, both large and small.

Yup :-)

I spent about 20 years in the airplane business and thinking back I
don't remember many, if any, welded aluminum bits and pieces.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 17:36:39 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
news
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:49:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle.
It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most
common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions
&
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to
sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.


6061 has pretty good corrosion resistance, even when scratches.
Generally not used below the waterline (immersed) in large boats, but
used extensively in aircraft pontoons and a lot of aluminum
pleasurecraft

Well, I've only worked on a few small boats, but they all "felt"
(cut/welded) more like 5052.


Which is also used.

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 17:47:56 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:47:41 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:49:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle. It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions &
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.


6061 has pretty good corrosion resistance, even when scratches.
Generally not used below the waterline (immersed) in large boats, but
used extensively in aircraft pontoons and a lot of aluminum
pleasurecraft

Grumman canoes are made from 5052 aluminum

Weren't those riveted?
http://test2.fiddlersgreen.net/aircr...taking-off.jpg

--
I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the
freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of
those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
--James Madison

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 21:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 17:47:56 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:47:41 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:49:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle. It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions &
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.


6061 has pretty good corrosion resistance, even when scratches.
Generally not used below the waterline (immersed) in large boats, but
used extensively in aircraft pontoons and a lot of aluminum
pleasurecraft

Grumman canoes are made from 5052 aluminum

Weren't those riveted?
http://test2.fiddlersgreen.net/aircr...taking-off.jpg

Yes indeed they are. Tougher than gull ****. The original ones were
..050....then in the 90s..a company bought out Grumman canoes..started
making them of a lesser grade aluminum and thinner material..
..040...so they were lighter..and more prone to damage..and recently a
bunch of Grumman people bought it out and are now making them as they
originally did..out of 5052 and .050 thick

I have a mint 17' Grumman of the thinner material..so I have to be
careful with it.

Btw...ever run across any canoe paddles..let me know. I need a couple
decent ones.


Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:32:38 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 12:59:58 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 23:40:45 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:19:05 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 21:38:50 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:32:39 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:dfeiqb1ob8tjbbij2le2ufknqpi15bafb2@4a x.com...
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The boat trailer is probably not made from 6061 aluminum :-)
Actually, it is.
See
http://www.easternmetal.com/pdfs/alu...components.pdf

I can't tell from the photo but I seriously doubt that a welded
trailer would have been built from 6061T6 as the materials list
shows.

If for no other reason than the area around every weld would have
magically lost about half its strength (ultimate tensile
strength).
Why would one want to built a trailer of relatively high priced,
high
strength, aluminum and deliberately destroy the strength of the
aluminum?
My son-in-law has an aluminum boat trailer made of 6061T651 -
some
parts are welded, some are bolted. Being a high end factory built
trailer the weldments MAY have been heat treated - but T6 or T651
returns to about a T4 in less than a year after welding, and keeps
getting better from there.

Which is partially true. Although it isn't quite that simple. The
ageing/artificial aging process is largely dependent on the pre
aging
solution heat treatment. If you melt 606T6 it looses much of its
pre
welded properties and if the ageing process doesn't start from a
maximum solution treatment than there is no way of telling what is
going to occur See"
https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=7392
for a more in depth discussion with additional references.

And, while it is "probably good enough for a fish boat" as my Maine
State relatives might say it could be a different story for a
flying
machine :-)
Which is why aluminum parts on planes are very seldom welded -
while
6061T6xxx aluminum is very commonly welded for trailers and
applications like dump truck boxes, feed trucks, garden carts, etc -
and even boats, both large and small.

Yup :-)

I spent about 20 years in the airplane business and thinking back I
don't remember many, if any, welded aluminum bits and pieces.
--
cheers,

John B.

The B-17's wing spars are welded trusses of rectangular tubing,
visible where they cross the front and rear of the bomb bay. You can
see it against the bulkhead below the hatch. It's clearly different
from the riveted keel truss that supports the center bomb racks.
http://www.teterboro-online.com/news...04/show4.shtml

According to this it's steel, though I couldn't tell through the
paint.
http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php...es_of_aircraft

Those old planes were built mostly by methods suited to home shops and
manual sheet metal equipment.
https://www.amazon.com/How-Aircraft-.../dp/1559181893

From the 1945 Navy training manual for Aircraft Welding, p.87:
"You are not allowed to weld STRUCTURAL PARTS made of heat-treated
aluminum alloys. Even if you had facilities for reheat-treating these
parts after welding, you still could not increase the strength of your
weld enough to stand up to the stresses which these parts must bear."

Then it discusses torch-welding gas tanks. The minimum thickness for a
plain butt joint is 0.081", below that it suggests a flanged joint.

--jsw

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 02:52:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 21:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 17:47:56 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:47:41 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:49:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
om...
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle. It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions &
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.


6061 has pretty good corrosion resistance, even when scratches.
Generally not used below the waterline (immersed) in large boats, but
used extensively in aircraft pontoons and a lot of aluminum
pleasurecraft

Grumman canoes are made from 5052 aluminum

Weren't those riveted?
http://test2.fiddlersgreen.net/aircr...taking-off.jpg

Yes indeed they are. Tougher than gull ****. The original ones were

I can tell from the reply that you didn't look at the link I posted.
It was for an amphibian bi-plane, silly duck, er, goose.


.050....then in the 90s..a company bought out Grumman canoes..started
making them of a lesser grade aluminum and thinner material..
.040...so they were lighter..and more prone to damage..and recently a
bunch of Grumman people bought it out and are now making them as they
originally did..out of 5052 and .050 thick

I have a mint 17' Grumman of the thinner material..so I have to be
careful with it.

Btw...ever run across any canoe paddles..let me know. I need a couple
decent ones.

Why not glue up some wood and carve 'em down in your spare time? Flap
discs and grinding discs work well, but I'm pretty sure you have a
couple of draw knives down there.

--
I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the
freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of
those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
--James Madison

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 5:57:31 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:


I have a mint 17' Grumman of the thinner material..so I have to be
careful with it.

Btw...ever run across any canoe paddles..let me know. I need a couple
decent ones.


Gunner


I also have a 17' Grumman canoe. But not in mint condition. I have tried pounding out some of the dents, but mine may be of the thicker aluminum. Wish I knew some one local with a planishing hammer. Oh well what do you expect when you buy a canoe for $1 a lb at the scrap yard.

I have a couple of paddles, but they are ones I made and look terrible. But they do work well.

Dan

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 21:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 17:47:56 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:47:41 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:49:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
m...
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle. It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions &
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.


6061 has pretty good corrosion resistance, even when scratches.
Generally not used below the waterline (immersed) in large boats, but
used extensively in aircraft pontoons and a lot of aluminum
pleasurecraft

Grumman canoes are made from 5052 aluminum

Weren't those riveted?
http://test2.fiddlersgreen.net/aircr...taking-off.jpg
Yes the grumman was rivetted. So was my big Springbok - but it was
also welded in numerous places due to some EXTREME abuse. (it was a
former Algonquin Outfitters canoe that had seen many beaver dams, and
rocky portages at the hands of less than proficient canoists.)
Not sure which alloy it was - but it was HARD!!!! Welded like 6061.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 21:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Grumman canoes are made from 5052 aluminum

Weren't those riveted?
http://test2.fiddlersgreen.net/aircr...taking-off.jpg
Yes the grumman was rivetted. So was my big
Springbok - but it was
also welded in numerous places due to some EXTREME
abuse. (it was a
former Algonquin Outfitters canoe that had seen many
beaver dams, and
rocky portages at the hands of less than proficient
canoists.)
Not sure which alloy it was - but it was HARD!!!!
Welded like 6061.

5xxx series of aluminum are work hardening. The more
they
are abused the better and stronger they get. Many years
ago
I repaired a canoe that was hit by a snowplow. The
chunk
I had to cut out acted like stainless steel !

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 08:08:40 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:32:38 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 12:59:58 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 23:40:45 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:19:05 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Tue, 09 Aug 2016 21:38:50 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 07:32:39 +0700, John B.

wrote:

On Tue, 9 Aug 2016 06:37:42 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
news:dfeiqb1ob8tjbbij2le2ufknqpi15bafb2@4 ax.com...
...
All of the aluminum on my plane is 6061T6 - rivetted.
All flight surfaces and flight structures.

Aluminum boat trailers are routinely welded.

What's the difference?
--jsw

The boat trailer is probably not made from 6061 aluminum :-)
Actually, it is.
See
http://www.easternmetal.com/pdfs/alu...components.pdf

I can't tell from the photo but I seriously doubt that a welded
trailer would have been built from 6061T6 as the materials list
shows.

If for no other reason than the area around every weld would have
magically lost about half its strength (ultimate tensile
strength).
Why would one want to built a trailer of relatively high priced,
high
strength, aluminum and deliberately destroy the strength of the
aluminum?
My son-in-law has an aluminum boat trailer made of 6061T651 -
some
parts are welded, some are bolted. Being a high end factory built
trailer the weldments MAY have been heat treated - but T6 or T651
returns to about a T4 in less than a year after welding, and keeps
getting better from there.

Which is partially true. Although it isn't quite that simple. The
ageing/artificial aging process is largely dependent on the pre
aging
solution heat treatment. If you melt 606T6 it looses much of its
pre
welded properties and if the ageing process doesn't start from a
maximum solution treatment than there is no way of telling what is
going to occur See"
https://app.aws.org/forum/topic_show.pl?tid=7392
for a more in depth discussion with additional references.

And, while it is "probably good enough for a fish boat" as my Maine
State relatives might say it could be a different story for a
flying
machine :-)
Which is why aluminum parts on planes are very seldom welded -
while
6061T6xxx aluminum is very commonly welded for trailers and
applications like dump truck boxes, feed trucks, garden carts, etc -
and even boats, both large and small.

Yup :-)

I spent about 20 years in the airplane business and thinking back I
don't remember many, if any, welded aluminum bits and pieces.
--
cheers,

John B.

The B-17's wing spars are welded trusses of rectangular tubing,
visible where they cross the front and rear of the bomb bay. You can
see it against the bulkhead below the hatch. It's clearly different
from the riveted keel truss that supports the center bomb racks.
http://www.teterboro-online.com/news...04/show4.shtml

According to this it's steel, though I couldn't tell through the
paint.
http://wiki.warthunder.com/index.php...es_of_aircraft

Try http://tinyurl.com/haqj2wy
for more detail. The wing spars didn't pass through the bomb bay :-)
http://tinyurl.com/h9rxvvo
Details of wing construction - riveted :-)

Those old planes were built mostly by methods suited to home shops and
manual sheet metal equipment.
https://www.amazon.com/How-Aircraft-.../dp/1559181893

From the 1945 Navy training manual for Aircraft Welding, p.87:
"You are not allowed to weld STRUCTURAL PARTS made of heat-treated
aluminum alloys. Even if you had facilities for reheat-treating these
parts after welding, you still could not increase the strength of your
weld enough to stand up to the stresses which these parts must bear."

Then it discusses torch-welding gas tanks. The minimum thickness for a
plain butt joint is 0.081", below that it suggests a flanged joint.

--jsw

Not in 1945 :-) but when I was in the air force no aluminum structural
parts were "weldable", in the sense that we were allowed to weld them.
Nor were any aluminum cast or forged parts.

We certified on aluminum on "thick to thick" which was, from memory,
probably about 0.081, but of course we TIG welded it (actually Heliarc
) :-)

--
cheers,

John B.

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 08:55:20 -0700, wrote:

On Thursday, August 11, 2016 at 5:57:31 AM UTC-4, Gunner Asch wrote:


I have a mint 17' Grumman of the thinner material..so I have to be
careful with it.

Btw...ever run across any canoe paddles..let me know. I need a couple
decent ones.


Gunner


I also have a 17' Grumman canoe. But not in mint condition. I have
tried pounding out some of the dents, but mine may be of the thicker
aluminum. Wish I knew some one local with a planishing hammer. Oh well
what do you expect when you buy a canoe for $1 a lb at the scrap yard.

I have a couple of paddles, but they are ones I made and look terrible.
But they do work well.

Dan

We had a 17' Grumman when I was a teenager. Also had a 3hp Evinrude and
I welded up a mount. We had a lot of fun with that until it was lost
when the garage burned down. Found it in puddles on the floor, and the
outboard flywheel looked like a lampshade hanging down from the sagging
driveshaft.

Pete Keillor

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 07:42:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 11 Aug 2016 02:52:28 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 21:31:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 17:47:56 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 16:47:41 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 10:49:14 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
news:sklhqbpjt55dht2nsjf1bn7k4o9qoj2bv5@4ax. com...
On Sun, 07 Aug 2016 21:38:13 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 5 Aug 2016 09:27:15 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

wrote in message
...
Hey everyone,

I'm planning to make an unusual trailer to tow by my motorcycle. It'll
be
used to haul sculpture (under 300 lbs) or two stacked 17'-long sea
kayaks.

Here are the basic features:

Aluminum (I want a total weight under 150 lbs if possible)
8' long flatbed deck
Tongue will be 'retractable' from 1' to 6' long.
2.5' wide
16" wheels (the sort used for motorcycle sidecars)

7075 is very strong, and pretty darn corrossion resistant as aluminum
alloys
go. 5052 and 5086 are more corrosion resistant, and are the most common
marine grade alloys. 5086 is also quite strong.

Remember that most MC hitches are only rated for about 300lbs GROSS
towing
capacity, and you need to have just the right amount of weight on the
hitch.



MY Questions:

1. What are the most important issues I may have?
2. What aluminum extrusions would be best (aluminum alloy, dimensions &
wall-thickness)

THANKS!

James
www.jameskelsey.com

6061T6?

+1

I ran across a blog by a guy building a submarine out of 6061, but I never
did follow up to see how he did. The thing that got my attention in thiws
thread was "Sea" kayaks. I don't know how well 6061 holds up to sal****er.
Otherwise 6061 is really nice to work with. Cuts well (compared to 5052)
and is pretty easy to weld.


6061 has pretty good corrosion resistance, even when scratches.
Generally not used below the waterline (immersed) in large boats, but
used extensively in aircraft pontoons and a lot of aluminum
pleasurecraft

Grumman canoes are made from 5052 aluminum

Weren't those riveted?
http://test2.fiddlersgreen.net/aircr...taking-off.jpg

Yes indeed they are. Tougher than gull ****. The original ones were

I can tell from the reply that you didn't look at the link I posted.
It was for an amphibian bi-plane, silly duck, er, goose.

Oh I looked at it. And they were riveted.


.050....then in the 90s..a company bought out Grumman canoes..started
making them of a lesser grade aluminum and thinner material..
.040...so they were lighter..and more prone to damage..and recently a
bunch of Grumman people bought it out and are now making them as they
originally did..out of 5052 and .050 thick

I have a mint 17' Grumman of the thinner material..so I have to be
careful with it.

Btw...ever run across any canoe paddles..let me know. I need a couple
decent ones.

Why not glue up some wood and carve 'em down in your spare time? Flap
discs and grinding discs work well, but I'm pretty sure you have a
couple of draw knives down there.

Im not a big fan of woodworking. I prefer to work with metals

Gunner

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