I have decided to give up and admit those wood stove grates have defeated
me . I have done a lot of research in addition to the excellent advice y'all
have given me and this just ain't happening .
These grates have been repeatedly overheated in a high-carbon environment
, and have apparently absorbed so much carbon as to render them unrepairable
..
First I tried preheat to 500-600° F and TIG welding the cracks with both
cast strips and with the Invar 42 . The problem is that the surface of the
CI just ablates , it will not puddle . I did get some very small "beads"
molten , but the filler would not fuse and puddle .
Next was preheat and brazing rod , it refused to wet the surface and stick
.. When I did get it to stick on some places , it cracked as the part cooled
..
Today I tried some new brazing rod with preheat , same deal , it refuses
to wet the surface . Since nothing else has worked I figured I had nothing
to lose so fired up the MIG and tried a short bead with heavy peening as the
weld cooled . And it won't stick either . I'm figuring that with nothing
else working it's pretty much futile to try with stick .
So tomorrow I get to call the guy and tell him the bad news ... but for
some reason I don't think he's going to mind too much . The stove (I got to
see it the other day when I delivered the other piece I repaired) is much
older than mine , and has been cobbled on some before . And he's got another
stove installed where he had this one ... I suspect he was kind of expecting
these to be unrepairable , I pretty sure I'm not the first guy he's asked to
fix them . The others apparently had the good sense to say no .
--
Snag

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 11:56:25 -0600
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

huge snip
I'm figuring that with nothing
else working it's pretty much futile to try with stick .

No experience... but you might yet try Forney Nomacast rods and
your stick welder. I've got some but never got around to trying to fix
the neighbors broke cast iron piece. They are an odd-ball cast iron rod
and not all that expensive. Wouldn't cost you much to give them a
whirl...

http://www.amazon.com/Forney-43400-N...dp/B000GAS21I/

And one last thought, it wouldn't be pretty any more but you could try
scabbing some regular steel to the cast with nickle rods. Maybe shape
the scabs as a U or channel shape and then place over the broken area.
It wouldn't hold up to the heat like cast but might be good enough
(shrug).

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
I have decided to give up and admit those wood stove grates have
defeated me . I have done a lot of research in addition to the
excellent advice y'all have given me and this just ain't happening .
These grates have been repeatedly overheated in a high-carbon
environment , and have apparently absorbed so much carbon as to
render them unrepairable ...........
--
Snag

I've heard that hot cast iron can oxidize along the grain boundaries
and become brittle and unweldable. That apparently happened to the
hanging side baffles in my woodstove, which first warped and then
cracked and crumbled along the lower edge. The stainless repair plates
have survived though they warp too.

-jsw

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 11:56:25 -0600
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

huge snip
I'm figuring that with nothing
else working it's pretty much futile to try with stick .

No experience... but you might yet try Forney Nomacast rods and
your stick welder. I've got some but never got around to trying to fix
the neighbors broke cast iron piece. They are an odd-ball cast iron
rod and not all that expensive. Wouldn't cost you much to give them a
whirl...

http://www.amazon.com/Forney-43400-N...dp/B000GAS21I/

And one last thought, it wouldn't be pretty any more but you could try
scabbing some regular steel to the cast with nickle rods. Maybe shape
the scabs as a U or channel shape and then place over the broken area.
It wouldn't hold up to the heat like cast but might be good enough
(shrug).

The problem is that I can't get anything to stick to this stuff . Won't
puddle under the TIG torch , just sizzles away . Brazing rod won't stick ,
MIG won't stick . Invar 42 (42% nickel) won't wet it . Cast iron strips cut
from an old casting won't stick .
The other project I did for him was a new CI fire pot that arrived broken
.. Used the Invar and got a right purty weld bead . I didn't figure this one
would be that easy , but I sure didn't expect it to be impossible .

--
Snag

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 16:26:58 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 11:56:25 -0600
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

huge snip
I'm figuring that with nothing
else working it's pretty much futile to try with stick .

No experience... but you might yet try Forney Nomacast rods and
your stick welder. I've got some but never got around to trying to fix
the neighbors broke cast iron piece. They are an odd-ball cast iron rod
and not all that expensive. Wouldn't cost you much to give them a
whirl...

http://www.amazon.com/Forney-43400-N...dp/B000GAS21I/

And one last thought, it wouldn't be pretty any more but you could try
scabbing some regular steel to the cast with nickle rods. Maybe shape
the scabs as a U or channel shape and then place over the broken area.
It wouldn't hold up to the heat like cast but might be good enough
(shrug).
Hard to do if he cannet get anything to stick to the existing metal -
and can't get it to fuse - - -
I'd say making a new grate would be simpler. (not saying even that
would be easy)

On 1/3/2016 12:56 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
I have decided to give up and admit those wood stove grates have defeated
me . I have done a lot of research in addition to the excellent advice y'all
have given me and this just ain't happening .
These grates have been repeatedly overheated in a high-carbon environment
, and have apparently absorbed so much carbon as to render them unrepairable
..
First I tried preheat to 500-600° F and TIG welding the cracks with both
cast strips and with the Invar 42 . The problem is that the surface of the
CI just ablates , it will not puddle . I did get some very small "beads"
molten , but the filler would not fuse and puddle .
Next was preheat and brazing rod , it refused to wet the surface and stick
.. When I did get it to stick on some places , it cracked as the part cooled
..
Today I tried some new brazing rod with preheat , same deal , it refuses
to wet the surface . Since nothing else has worked I figured I had nothing
to lose so fired up the MIG and tried a short bead with heavy peening as the
weld cooled . And it won't stick either . I'm figuring that with nothing
else working it's pretty much futile to try with stick .
So tomorrow I get to call the guy and tell him the bad news ... but for
some reason I don't think he's going to mind too much . The stove (I got to
see it the other day when I delivered the other piece I repaired) is much
older than mine , and has been cobbled on some before . And he's got another
stove installed where he had this one ... I suspect he was kind of expecting
these to be unrepairable , I pretty sure I'm not the first guy he's asked to
fix them . The others apparently had the good sense to say no .



You went much farther than I would have. (not saying much)

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 11:56:25 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

I have decided to give up and admit those wood stove grates have defeated
me . I have done a lot of research in addition to the excellent advice y'all
have given me and this just ain't happening .
These grates have been repeatedly overheated in a high-carbon environment
, and have apparently absorbed so much carbon as to render them unrepairable
.
First I tried preheat to 500-600° F and TIG welding the cracks with both
cast strips and with the Invar 42 . The problem is that the surface of the
CI just ablates , it will not puddle . I did get some very small "beads"
molten , but the filler would not fuse and puddle .
Next was preheat and brazing rod , it refused to wet the surface and stick
. When I did get it to stick on some places , it cracked as the part cooled
.
Today I tried some new brazing rod with preheat , same deal , it refuses
to wet the surface . Since nothing else has worked I figured I had nothing
to lose so fired up the MIG and tried a short bead with heavy peening as the
weld cooled . And it won't stick either . I'm figuring that with nothing
else working it's pretty much futile to try with stick .
So tomorrow I get to call the guy and tell him the bad news ... but for
some reason I don't think he's going to mind too much . The stove (I got to
see it the other day when I delivered the other piece I repaired) is much
older than mine , and has been cobbled on some before . And he's got another
stove installed where he had this one ... I suspect he was kind of expecting
these to be unrepairable , I pretty sure I'm not the first guy he's asked to
fix them . The others apparently had the good sense to say no .

I might add that most "muffler shops" say that they won't weld to
existing used exhaust pipe for the same reason.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 04 Jan 2016 08:24:56 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 11:56:25 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

I have decided to give up and admit those wood stove grates have defeated
me . I have done a lot of research in addition to the excellent advice y'all
have given me and this just ain't happening .
These grates have been repeatedly overheated in a high-carbon environment
, and have apparently absorbed so much carbon as to render them unrepairable
.
First I tried preheat to 500-600° F and TIG welding the cracks with both
cast strips and with the Invar 42 . The problem is that the surface of the
CI just ablates , it will not puddle . I did get some very small "beads"
molten , but the filler would not fuse and puddle .
Next was preheat and brazing rod , it refused to wet the surface and stick
. When I did get it to stick on some places , it cracked as the part cooled
.
Today I tried some new brazing rod with preheat , same deal , it refuses
to wet the surface . Since nothing else has worked I figured I had nothing
to lose so fired up the MIG and tried a short bead with heavy peening as the
weld cooled . And it won't stick either . I'm figuring that with nothing
else working it's pretty much futile to try with stick .
So tomorrow I get to call the guy and tell him the bad news ... but for
some reason I don't think he's going to mind too much . The stove (I got to
see it the other day when I delivered the other piece I repaired) is much
older than mine , and has been cobbled on some before . And he's got another
stove installed where he had this one ... I suspect he was kind of expecting
these to be unrepairable , I pretty sure I'm not the first guy he's asked to
fix them . The others apparently had the good sense to say no .

I might add that most "muffler shops" say that they won't weld to
existing used exhaust pipe for the same reason.

I have successfully welded to old exhaust many times, but there IS a
limit - and aluminized steel is a bit more tricky. With AMC's old
ceramic coated exhaust it was a total exercise in futility..

When it comes to manifolds,I have welded a lot of cracked cast - but
if you get "burned cast" - forget it. It just falls apart when you hit
it with torch or rod.

High nickel (steel) castings seam to stand up to the heat a lot better
than simple grey iron

wrote:
On Mon, 04 Jan 2016 08:24:56 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 11:56:25 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

I have decided to give up and admit those wood stove grates have
defeated me . I have done a lot of research in addition to the
excellent advice y'all have given me and this just ain't happening .
These grates have been repeatedly overheated in a high-carbon
environment , and have apparently absorbed so much carbon as to
render them unrepairable .
First I tried preheat to 500-600° F and TIG welding the cracks
with both cast strips and with the Invar 42 . The problem is that
the surface of the CI just ablates , it will not puddle . I did get
some very small "beads" molten , but the filler would not fuse and
puddle . Next was preheat and brazing rod , it refused to wet the
surface and stick . When I did get it to stick on some places , it
cracked as the part cooled .
Today I tried some new brazing rod with preheat , same deal , it
refuses to wet the surface . Since nothing else has worked I
figured I had nothing to lose so fired up the MIG and tried a short
bead with heavy peening as the weld cooled . And it won't stick
either . I'm figuring that with nothing else working it's pretty
much futile to try with stick . So tomorrow I get to call the guy
and tell him the bad news ... but for some reason I don't think
he's going to mind too much . The stove (I got to see it the other
day when I delivered the other piece I repaired) is much older than
mine , and has been cobbled on some before . And he's got another
stove installed where he had this one ... I suspect he was kind of
expecting these to be unrepairable , I pretty sure I'm not the
first guy he's asked to fix them . The others apparently had the
good sense to say no .

I might add that most "muffler shops" say that they won't weld to
existing used exhaust pipe for the same reason.

I have successfully welded to old exhaust many times, but there IS a
limit - and aluminized steel is a bit more tricky. With AMC's old
ceramic coated exhaust it was a total exercise in futility..

When it comes to manifolds,I have welded a lot of cracked cast - but
if you get "burned cast" - forget it. It just falls apart when you hit
it with torch or rod.

Which is pretty much what's happening here , it just goes away when I hit
it with the TIG .
--
Snag

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 20:40:30 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote:
On Mon, 04 Jan 2016 08:24:56 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 11:56:25 -0600, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

I have decided to give up and admit those wood stove grates have
defeated me . I have done a lot of research in addition to the
excellent advice y'all have given me and this just ain't happening .
These grates have been repeatedly overheated in a high-carbon
environment , and have apparently absorbed so much carbon as to
render them unrepairable .
First I tried preheat to 500-600° F and TIG welding the cracks
with both cast strips and with the Invar 42 . The problem is that
the surface of the CI just ablates , it will not puddle . I did get
some very small "beads" molten , but the filler would not fuse and
puddle . Next was preheat and brazing rod , it refused to wet the
surface and stick . When I did get it to stick on some places , it
cracked as the part cooled .
Today I tried some new brazing rod with preheat , same deal , it
refuses to wet the surface . Since nothing else has worked I
figured I had nothing to lose so fired up the MIG and tried a short
bead with heavy peening as the weld cooled . And it won't stick
either . I'm figuring that with nothing else working it's pretty
much futile to try with stick . So tomorrow I get to call the guy
and tell him the bad news ... but for some reason I don't think
he's going to mind too much . The stove (I got to see it the other
day when I delivered the other piece I repaired) is much older than
mine , and has been cobbled on some before . And he's got another
stove installed where he had this one ... I suspect he was kind of
expecting these to be unrepairable , I pretty sure I'm not the
first guy he's asked to fix them . The others apparently had the
good sense to say no .

I might add that most "muffler shops" say that they won't weld to
existing used exhaust pipe for the same reason.

I have successfully welded to old exhaust many times, but there IS a
limit - and aluminized steel is a bit more tricky. With AMC's old
ceramic coated exhaust it was a total exercise in futility..

When it comes to manifolds,I have welded a lot of cracked cast - but
if you get "burned cast" - forget it. It just falls apart when you hit
it with torch or rod.

Which is pretty much what's happening here , it just goes away when I hit
it with the TIG .
And it doesn't even send a shower of sparks. Almost like trying to
weld a sand core. when you do it with a torch

On Sun, 3 Jan 2016 14:41:22 -0600
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

snip
The problem is that I can't get anything to stick to this stuff . Won't
puddle under the TIG torch , just sizzles away . Brazing rod won't stick ,
MIG won't stick . Invar 42 (42% nickel) won't wet it . Cast iron strips cut
from an old casting won't stick .

When I was investigating Forney Nomacast rods several guys mentioned
that it worked okay with pretty dirty/oily cast iron items. Like I said,
no experience with it, just what I picked up reading what others had to
say. It's in a class all by itself. Several big name rod makers have
similar, if not the same. It's not expensive...

Don't use cast iron scabs. You already determined that won't work. Use
something else, steel, stainless steel... and form the scab around the
grate. Weld the scab closed surrounding/encircling the cracked grate
area. It won't be pretty but should hold okay.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Sunday, January 3, 2016 at 3:41:24 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:

I'm figuring that with nothing
else working it's pretty much futile to try with stick .

No experience... but you might yet try Forney Nomacast rods and
your stick welder. I've got some but never got around to trying to fix
the neighbors broke cast iron piece. They are an odd-ball cast iron
rod and not all that expensive. Wouldn't cost you much to give them a
whirl...

http://www.amazon.com/Forney-43400-N...dp/B000GAS21I/


Snag

You might try using the stick welder. The flux on the stick rod might do enough to get rid of the carbon and crud. Tig uses gas to prevent carbon and crud, but the flux gets rid of existing crud.

Dan

On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 9:04:47 AM UTC-5, wrote:


You might try using the stick welder. The flux on the stick rod might do enough to get rid of the carbon and crud. Tig uses gas to prevent carbon and crud, but the flux gets rid of existing crud.

Dan

Forgot to add. You might post over on SJEW and get Ernie's advice. He likes some of the ESAB consumables, but not the ESAB welders. And ESAB has a rod for welding cruddy cast iron. May or may not be the best.

Dan

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 06:14:26 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, January 4, 2016 at 9:04:47 AM UTC-5, wrote:


You might try using the stick welder. The flux on the stick rod might do enough to get rid of the carbon and crud. Tig uses gas to prevent carbon and crud, but the flux gets rid of existing crud.

Dan

Forgot to add. You might post over on SJEW and get Ernie's advice. He likes some of the ESAB consumables, but not the ESAB welders. And ESAB has a rod for welding cruddy cast iron. May or may not be the best.

Dan

ESAB has some good specialty rods, and so does Hobart. Ernie would be
a good first stop but don't overlook just calling those companies and
talking to an engineer or tech specialist. They're there to help and
they live with issues like that every day.

--
Ed Huntress

On 01/03/2016 10:56 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
I have decided to give up and admit those wood stove grates have defeated
me . I have done a lot of research in addition to the excellent advice y'all
have given me and this just ain't happening .
These grates have been repeatedly overheated in a high-carbon environment
, and have apparently absorbed so much carbon as to render them unrepairable

I have run into that. Years ago, a friend asked for some help on a job
he was asked to do that was for a company that did primate research. The
welding was some 1/4" 6000 series aluminum. Nothing that either of us
could do would make the aluminum do anything except sparkle and
disappear. 20 years of soaking in monkey **** and chlorine bleach
rendered that job impossible.

BobH

On Mon, 4 Jan 2016 06:04:41 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Sunday, January 3, 2016 at 3:41:24 PM UTC-5, Terry Coombs wrote:

I'm figuring that with nothing
else working it's pretty much futile to try with stick .

No experience... but you might yet try Forney Nomacast rods and
your stick welder. I've got some but never got around to trying to fix
the neighbors broke cast iron piece. They are an odd-ball cast iron
rod and not all that expensive. Wouldn't cost you much to give them a
whirl...

http://www.amazon.com/Forney-43400-N...dp/B000GAS21I/


Snag

You might try using the stick welder. The flux on the stick rod might do enough to get rid of the carbon and crud. Tig uses gas to prevent carbon and crud, but the flux gets rid of existing crud.

Dan

Ive attempted to weld some old manifolds that were so poorly
cast..that they simply broke into pieces like graham crackers while I
was preheating them. 60s Ford AND Chevy as I recall....

Gunner