Anybody do the research? I will look around. I guess "elastomer" is another
name for plastic. Generally speaking... Is it durable as steel for Springs?
I'm thinking about the elastomer springs on a bicycle seat/saddle. They
might require less rigid structure than steel springs, so maybe there's
less chance of them breaking off of the saddle.

Thanks.

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:36:24 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

snip
I guess "elastomer" is another
name for plastic.
/snip

polymer = plastic
elastomer = rubber


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:36:24 +0000, John Doe wrote:

Anybody do the research? I will look around. I guess "elastomer" is
another name for plastic. Generally speaking... Is it durable as steel
for Springs?
I'm thinking about the elastomer springs on a bicycle seat/saddle. They
might require less rigid structure than steel springs, so maybe there's
less chance of them breaking off of the saddle.

"Elastomer" is High Falutin for rubber, urethane, etc.

AFAIK there's a lot of opportunity to make things better as well as a lot
of opportunity to screw things up -- there's a huge range of available
materials, they'll be more likely than steel to not age well, and you'll
need to select one that withstands the elements.

But, having said all that -- who knows, it may work great.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 22:19:35 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:36:24 +0000, John Doe wrote:

Anybody do the research? I will look around. I guess "elastomer" is
another name for plastic. Generally speaking... Is it durable as steel
for Springs?
I'm thinking about the elastomer springs on a bicycle seat/saddle. They
might require less rigid structure than steel springs, so maybe there's
less chance of them breaking off of the saddle.

"Elastomer" is High Falutin for rubber, urethane, etc.

AFAIK there's a lot of opportunity to make things better as well as a lot
of opportunity to screw things up -- there's a huge range of available
materials, they'll be more likely than steel to not age well, and you'll
need to select one that withstands the elements.

But, having said all that -- who knows, it may work great.


BMC used rubber springs for the Austin 1100 (sold as the MG Sport
Sedan in the US). They seemed to hold up well. Liquid dampers were
built into the rubber assembly, which was then called "hydrolastic."

I imagine it would handle the butt of a bicycle rider.

--
Ed Huntress

Tim Wescott wrote:

"Elastomer" is High Falutin for rubber, urethane, etc.

Actually it simply an acronym for "elastic polymer". That is what I
should have said in reply to the first reply, and left it at that.

AFAIK there's a lot of opportunity to make things better as well as a
lot of opportunity to screw things up -- there's a huge range of
available materials

Yup. Surprising how complex materials can be, nowadays.

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 22:19:35 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:36:24 +0000, John Doe wrote:

Anybody do the research? I will look around. I guess "elastomer" is
another name for plastic. Generally speaking... Is it durable as steel
for Springs?
I'm thinking about the elastomer springs on a bicycle seat/saddle. They
might require less rigid structure than steel springs, so maybe there's
less chance of them breaking off of the saddle.

"Elastomer" is High Falutin for rubber, urethane, etc.

AFAIK there's a lot of opportunity to make things better as well as a lot
of opportunity to screw things up -- there's a huge range of available
materials, they'll be more likely than steel to not age well, and you'll
need to select one that withstands the elements.

But, having said all that -- who knows, it may work great.

Or not. I was curious and googledit.
http://dirtmountainbike.com/features...PXaJPcHMKVW.97

--
If we can ever make red tape nutritional, we can feed the world.
--Robert Schaeberle

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 07:49:51 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 22:19:35 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:36:24 +0000, John Doe wrote:

Anybody do the research? I will look around. I guess "elastomer" is
another name for plastic. Generally speaking... Is it durable as steel
for Springs?
I'm thinking about the elastomer springs on a bicycle seat/saddle.
They might require less rigid structure than steel springs, so maybe
there's less chance of them breaking off of the saddle.

"Elastomer" is High Falutin for rubber, urethane, etc.

AFAIK there's a lot of opportunity to make things better as well as a
lot of opportunity to screw things up -- there's a huge range of
available materials, they'll be more likely than steel to not age well,
and you'll need to select one that withstands the elements.

But, having said all that -- who knows, it may work great.

Or not. I was curious and googledit.
http://dirtmountainbike.com/features...bike-products-
ever.html/4#iAPD8PXaJPcHMKVW.97

That would come under my "opportunity to screw things up". Just tossing a
hunk of randomly-cut, randomly-chosen rubbery plastic in between a couple
of pieces of steel is probably not going to lead to joy.

Anything that _does_ work is probably going to require a lot of trial and
error, and careful testing after you've perfected the product to make sure
that you haven't just trained your butt to like what you've made, instead
of making a seat that everyone else's butt will like.

(What serious rider actually puts weight on a bicycle seat? If you're
sitting on the damned seat you're not riding the bike as fast as humanly
possible. You can't pedal hard with your butt on the seat, on the
downhill you can't stand on the pedals to minimize the unsprung weight of
the assembly with your butt on the seat -- the seat is just there to stick
between your thighs and help you control the bike, for god's sake!)

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 11:49:40 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 07:49:51 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 22:19:35 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:36:24 +0000, John Doe wrote:

Anybody do the research? I will look around. I guess "elastomer" is
another name for plastic. Generally speaking... Is it durable as steel
for Springs?
I'm thinking about the elastomer springs on a bicycle seat/saddle.
They might require less rigid structure than steel springs, so maybe
there's less chance of them breaking off of the saddle.

"Elastomer" is High Falutin for rubber, urethane, etc.

AFAIK there's a lot of opportunity to make things better as well as a
lot of opportunity to screw things up -- there's a huge range of
available materials, they'll be more likely than steel to not age well,
and you'll need to select one that withstands the elements.

But, having said all that -- who knows, it may work great.

Or not. I was curious and googledit.
http://dirtmountainbike.com/features...bike-products-
ever.html/4#iAPD8PXaJPcHMKVW.97

That would come under my "opportunity to screw things up". Just tossing a
hunk of randomly-cut, randomly-chosen rubbery plastic in between a couple
of pieces of steel is probably not going to lead to joy.

Anything that _does_ work is probably going to require a lot of trial and
error, and careful testing after you've perfected the product to make sure
that you haven't just trained your butt to like what you've made, instead
of making a seat that everyone else's butt will like.

(What serious rider actually puts weight on a bicycle seat? If you're
sitting on the damned seat you're not riding the bike as fast as humanly
possible. You can't pedal hard with your butt on the seat, on the
downhill you can't stand on the pedals to minimize the unsprung weight of
the assembly with your butt on the seat -- the seat is just there to stick
between your thighs and help you control the bike, for god's sake!)

Ok, but bicycle tourists do spend rest time with their weight on the
seat.

Or we did. I rode the AYH Century (100 miles in 24 hours) at age 16,
and I spent plenty of time with my weight back on the seat on that
trip.

I think a little time spent searching on something about lifetime
cycling of elastomers would produce the answers one needs. Some of
them are formulated for very long lifetimes.

--
Ed Huntress

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 12:58:10 -0500, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 11:49:40 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 07:49:51 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 22:19:35 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:36:24 +0000, John Doe wrote:

Anybody do the research? I will look around. I guess "elastomer" is
another name for plastic. Generally speaking... Is it durable as
steel for Springs?
I'm thinking about the elastomer springs on a bicycle seat/saddle.
They might require less rigid structure than steel springs, so maybe
there's less chance of them breaking off of the saddle.

"Elastomer" is High Falutin for rubber, urethane, etc.

AFAIK there's a lot of opportunity to make things better as well as a
lot of opportunity to screw things up -- there's a huge range of
available materials, they'll be more likely than steel to not age
well,
and you'll need to select one that withstands the elements.

But, having said all that -- who knows, it may work great.

Or not. I was curious and googledit.
http://dirtmountainbike.com/features...mountain-bike-
products-
ever.html/4#iAPD8PXaJPcHMKVW.97

That would come under my "opportunity to screw things up". Just tossing
a hunk of randomly-cut, randomly-chosen rubbery plastic in between a
couple of pieces of steel is probably not going to lead to joy.

Anything that _does_ work is probably going to require a lot of trial
and error, and careful testing after you've perfected the product to
make sure that you haven't just trained your butt to like what you've
made, instead of making a seat that everyone else's butt will like.

(What serious rider actually puts weight on a bicycle seat? If you're
sitting on the damned seat you're not riding the bike as fast as humanly
possible. You can't pedal hard with your butt on the seat, on the
downhill you can't stand on the pedals to minimize the unsprung weight
of the assembly with your butt on the seat -- the seat is just there to
stick between your thighs and help you control the bike, for god's
sake!)

Ok, but bicycle tourists do spend rest time with their weight on the
seat.

Or we did. I rode the AYH Century (100 miles in 24 hours) at age 16,
and I spent plenty of time with my weight back on the seat on that trip.

I carefully constructed my definition such that any counter-argument does
not refer -- by definition -- to serious riders.

I think a little time spent searching on something about lifetime
cycling of elastomers would produce the answers one needs. Some of them
are formulated for very long lifetimes.

That's part of it (and one shouldn't ignore lifetime cycling of steel,
since that's an issue with springs). Performance over temperature and
resistance to damage from minor accidents are two other things I can
think of.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

Tim Wescott wrote:

What serious rider actually puts weight on a bicycle seat? If you're
sitting on the damned seat you're not riding the bike as fast as
humanly possible.

I intend to stand regularly especially on downhills, but serious riders
actually recommend sitting when pedaling. Pedaling while sitting down
can easily be more efficient. You don't have to handle all of the weight
shifting around.

Besides comfort... One reason for a good bike seat/saddle suspension is
for my inexpensive aluminum (6061) frame bicycle when hitting a larger
than expected bump while sitting down. To help protect the frame.






--
Thanks to the replies.

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 21:13:24 +0000, John Doe wrote:

Tim Wescott wrote:

What serious rider actually puts weight on a bicycle seat? If you're
sitting on the damned seat you're not riding the bike as fast as
humanly possible.

I intend to stand regularly especially on downhills, but serious riders
actually recommend sitting when pedaling. Pedaling while sitting down
can easily be more efficient. You don't have to handle all of the weight
shifting around.

Besides comfort... One reason for a good bike seat/saddle suspension is
for my inexpensive aluminum (6061) frame bicycle when hitting a larger
than expected bump while sitting down. To help protect the frame.

I might have had my tongue in my cheek when I wrote that.

Good luck -- it sounds like an interesting thing to try.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 11:49:40 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 07:49:51 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 22:19:35 -0600, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 23:36:24 +0000, John Doe wrote:

Anybody do the research? I will look around. I guess "elastomer" is
another name for plastic. Generally speaking... Is it durable as steel
for Springs?
I'm thinking about the elastomer springs on a bicycle seat/saddle.
They might require less rigid structure than steel springs, so maybe
there's less chance of them breaking off of the saddle.

"Elastomer" is High Falutin for rubber, urethane, etc.

AFAIK there's a lot of opportunity to make things better as well as a
lot of opportunity to screw things up -- there's a huge range of
available materials, they'll be more likely than steel to not age well,
and you'll need to select one that withstands the elements.

But, having said all that -- who knows, it may work great.

Or not. I was curious and googledit.
http://dirtmountainbike.com/features...bike-products-
ever.html/4#iAPD8PXaJPcHMKVW.97

That would come under my "opportunity to screw things up". Just tossing a
hunk of randomly-cut, randomly-chosen rubbery plastic in between a couple
of pieces of steel is probably not going to lead to joy.

Anything that _does_ work is probably going to require a lot of trial and
error, and careful testing after you've perfected the product to make sure
that you haven't just trained your butt to like what you've made, instead
of making a seat that everyone else's butt will like.

(What serious rider actually puts weight on a bicycle seat? If you're
sitting on the damned seat you're not riding the bike as fast as humanly
possible. You can't pedal hard with your butt on the seat, on the
downhill you can't stand on the pedals to minimize the unsprung weight of
the assembly with your butt on the seat -- the seat is just there to stick
between your thighs and help you control the bike, for god's sake!)

While you are correct that, at least for short distances, a bicycle
can be ridden faster by standing on the pedals but "sprinting" is
really a very short distance effort. An average Tour de France stage
is about 174 Kilometers (about 108 Miles) and they averaged a speed of
40.69 kph (25.28 MPH) over these distances. Probably the fastest
sprinters are the Japanese Keirin racers who can reach speeds of ~70
KPH (43.5 MPH)... for very short distances, less then one lap of the
track.

In short while you may be able to go real fast out of the saddle you
can't go very far.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Sorry, I should have limited that to just pointing out the fact that it
isn't so simple since "elastomer" is an acronym for "elastic polymer".

On Sat, 24 Jan 2015 07:31:34 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

Sorry, I should have limited that to just pointing out the fact that it
isn't so simple since "elastomer" is an acronym for "elastic polymer".

Thanks, but not necessary -- this is Usenet afterall.

Indeed it is not so simple, and one can't draw a fixed line.

Good luck on your project.


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 07:49:51 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

http://dirtmountainbike.com/features...PXaJPcHMKVW.97

Ive got a Cannondale Mt bike with elastomer front fork parts. All of
which are dead as hell and its totally unridable. They say there are
replacement elastomer parts available for $100

Ill probably stick another front fork on it one of these days. My
other Cannondale doesnt have that crap on it.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

But of course the elastomer technology improves over time.

And speaking of "liberalism"... Are you aware that women's "liberation" has
caused and continues to cause the most massive expansion of government
possible? Yes, you may take the fifth...


Gunner Asch wrote in
:

On Fri, 23 Jan 2015 07:49:51 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

http://dirtmountainbike.com/features...bike-products-
ever.html/4#iAPD8PXaJPcHMKVW.97

Ive got a Cannondale Mt bike with elastomer front fork parts. All of
which are dead as hell and its totally unridable. They say there are
replacement elastomer parts available for $100

Ill probably stick another front fork on it one of these days. My
other Cannondale doesnt have that crap on it.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke