I've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5kud9
:

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous pitch
originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant. Sticks to
glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough to keep the glass
from skewing away from the joint under water pressure.

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5kud9
:

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous pitch
originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant. Sticks to
glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough to keep the glass
from skewing away from the joint under water pressure.

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep of the
edges?

Cydrome Leader wrote:

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5kud9
:

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous pitch
originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant. Sticks to
glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough to keep the glass
from skewing away from the joint under water pressure.

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep of the
edges?

It's specific silicones that do not release substances toxic to fish
after they have cured. The regular window caulk type silicones will tend
to kill your fish.

Cydrome Leader wrote:
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5kud9
:

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?
The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous pitch
originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant. Sticks to
glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough to keep the glass
from skewing away from the joint under water pressure.

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep of the
edges?



NOT hardware/home store stuff. It's different chemistry so it doesn't
kill the fish. There is also a tape that you can use as well.


--
Steve W.

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
:

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep of
the edges?

I've made dozens of them. I used to raise Betas in a quest for a perfect
black.

Just plain 'clear' Silicone I (the version that evolves acetic acid) is
what they all used once -- because it was the only version.

I don't know if there are any advantages to using Silicone II, but the
methanol that evolves from it would be highly toxic; so it would require
to cure quite a while to avoid that problem.

Except for "seaming" the edges of the glass (slightly grinding the sharp
edges), no special prep except cleaning is required. I used to wash the
panels well, then clean with isopropyl alcohol, then dry thoroughly.

Lloyd

"Pete C." fired this volley in news:XFofw.222276
:

It's specific silicones that do not release substances toxic to fish
after they have cured. The regular window caulk type silicones will
tend
to kill your fish.

Horse puckey. It's ordinary Silicone I.

They ALL release toxic substances. Silicone I releases acetic acid, and
silicone II releases methanol. Curing time is the key to eliminating
that.

I've made dozens of aquariums for breeding. It's simple and cheap, and
I've NEVER had a fish succumb to the evolved by-products of curing.

LLoyd

"Steve W." fired this volley in news:m5l65m$jv6$1
@dont-email.me:

NOT hardware/home store stuff. It's different chemistry so it doesn't
kill the fish. There is also a tape that you can use as well.

again... read the rest of the thread. It IS just the regular hardware
store stuff... you just don't want anything that has a mildewcide added.

Lloyd

Pete C. wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
news:m5kud9 :

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous
pitch originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant.
Sticks to glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough
to keep the glass from skewing away from the joint under water
pressure.

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep
of the edges?

It's specific silicones that do not release substances toxic to fish
after they have cured. The regular window caulk type silicones will
tend to kill your fish.

That's not necessarily true , Pete ... I built an acquarium for my wife in
like 1987-88 , I used over the counter silicone from the hardware store .
Whatcha gotta do is let it fully cure before you put fish in it . We've had
fish live 2-3 years , one in particular was a pleco that got over 8" long
....

--
Snag

Terry Coombs wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
news:m5kud9 :

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous
pitch originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant.
Sticks to glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough
to keep the glass from skewing away from the joint under water
pressure.

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep
of the edges?

It's specific silicones that do not release substances toxic to fish
after they have cured. The regular window caulk type silicones will
tend to kill your fish.

That's not necessarily true , Pete ... I built an acquarium for my wife in
like 1987-88 , I used over the counter silicone from the hardware store .
Whatcha gotta do is let it fully cure before you put fish in it . We've had
fish live 2-3 years , one in particular was a pleco that got over 8" long
...

I had a couple pacu that were over 12"... at least until my idiot mother
who was supposed to be watching them while I was out of town managed to
kill them The two plecos that are about 8" and 10" survived.

Pete C. wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
news:m5kud9 :

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous
pitch originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant.
Sticks to glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough
to keep the glass from skewing away from the joint under water
pressure.

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep
of the edges?

It's specific silicones that do not release substances toxic to fish
after they have cured. The regular window caulk type silicones will
tend to kill your fish.

That's not necessarily true , Pete ... I built an acquarium for my
wife in like 1987-88 , I used over the counter silicone from the
hardware store . Whatcha gotta do is let it fully cure before you
put fish in it . We've had fish live 2-3 years , one in particular
was a pleco that got over 8" long ...

I had a couple pacu that were over 12"... at least until my idiot
mother who was supposed to be watching them while I was out of town
managed to kill them The two plecos that are about 8" and 10"
survived.

How big is your tank ? The one I built was a 30 gallon unit . It's still in
Memphis at the house , my son and DIL are using it .

--
Snag

Terry Coombs wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Terry Coombs wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
news:m5kud9 :

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous
pitch originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant.
Sticks to glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough
to keep the glass from skewing away from the joint under water
pressure.

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep
of the edges?

It's specific silicones that do not release substances toxic to fish
after they have cured. The regular window caulk type silicones will
tend to kill your fish.

That's not necessarily true , Pete ... I built an acquarium for my
wife in like 1987-88 , I used over the counter silicone from the
hardware store . Whatcha gotta do is let it fully cure before you
put fish in it . We've had fish live 2-3 years , one in particular
was a pleco that got over 8" long ...

I had a couple pacu that were over 12"... at least until my idiot
mother who was supposed to be watching them while I was out of town
managed to kill them The two plecos that are about 8" and 10"
survived.

How big is your tank ? The one I built was a 30 gallon unit . It's still in
Memphis at the house , my son and DIL are using it .

--
Snag

75 gal

"Terry Coombs" fired this volley in
news
How big is your tank ? The one I built was a 30 gallon unit . It's
still in Memphis at the house , my son and DIL are using it .

Terry, I've made up to 60-gallon high-boy show tanks with just glass and
silicone glue.

With taller tanks (not bigger volume, just bigger height) you have to use
thicker glass, and sometimes a narrow metal bottom frame to help resist
the pressure at the bottom... the glue is a good seal, but not strong
enough to stay in tension forever.

The same is true for long dimensions sideways. Thicker glass and
sometimes a bottom frame is necessary to handle the total water thrust
across a long length.

I've made 10-gallon 'breeders' (almost cubical) from standard double-
thickness window glass (that's not two layers, that's a 'glass term'),
and with no bracing; just glue.

Lloyd

On 12/2/2014 1:43 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5kud9
:

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous pitch
originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant. Sticks to
glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough to keep the glass
from skewing away from the joint under water pressure.

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep of the
edges?

Wouldn't hurt to sand away sharp edges.
Never raised any fish, But I'd go with aquarium silicone to be safe.
It's available locally and online.
I would wet all edges with silicone, by working the tip into the edges
to make sure the silicone is sticking to the glass, ie. don't press a
dry edge into a bead.
https://www.google.com/search?q=auqu...ient=firefox-a

Mikek

amdx fired this volley in news:m5lo5v$n8k$1@dont-
email.me:

But I'd go with aquarium silicone to be safe.
It's available locally and online.

If you've got several tanks to do, it's an unnecessary expense.

Just make sure the tube you get does NOT list biocides or "GE Bioseal" in
the nomenclature.

Remember, GE type I silicone was ALL that was available for decades. We
used it from about 1964 on for making our own aquaria.

Lloyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Terry Coombs" fired this volley in
news
How big is your tank ? The one I built was a 30 gallon unit . It's
still in Memphis at the house , my son and DIL are using it .

Terry, I've made up to 60-gallon high-boy show tanks with just glass
and silicone glue.

With taller tanks (not bigger volume, just bigger height) you have to
use thicker glass, and sometimes a narrow metal bottom frame to help
resist the pressure at the bottom... the glue is a good seal, but not
strong enough to stay in tension forever.

The same is true for long dimensions sideways. Thicker glass and
sometimes a bottom frame is necessary to handle the total water thrust
across a long length.

I've made 10-gallon 'breeders' (almost cubical) from standard double-
thickness window glass (that's not two layers, that's a 'glass term'),
and with no bracing; just glue.

Lloyd

This tank is built into a frame made from 2x4's - ripped at 45° and made
into an L for corners , rails are dowelled to the legs . It has a 3/4"
plywood bottom under the glass , used 3/8" glass . The frame extends to make
the unit 48" tall with 2 adjustable shelves below the tank . IIRC the tank
is 12 x 16 x 48" , but I could be off . And it's never leaked a drop .

--
Snag

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"Terry Coombs" fired this volley in
news
How big is your tank ? The one I built was a 30 gallon unit . It's
still in Memphis at the house , my son and DIL are using it .

Terry, I've made up to 60-gallon high-boy show tanks with just glass and
silicone glue.

With taller tanks (not bigger volume, just bigger height) you have to use
thicker glass, and sometimes a narrow metal bottom frame to help resist
the pressure at the bottom... the glue is a good seal, but not strong
enough to stay in tension forever.

The same is true for long dimensions sideways. Thicker glass and
sometimes a bottom frame is necessary to handle the total water thrust
across a long length.

I've made 10-gallon 'breeders' (almost cubical) from standard double-
thickness window glass (that's not two layers, that's a 'glass term'),
and with no bracing; just glue.

Did you just cut the glass with a glass cutter and knock the corners off?
I've never had acceptable results cutting glass before, so I'm going to
practice. Man at the hardware store said cut with streak of kerosene on
the glass. I'm not 100% what that does though.

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
:

Did you just cut the glass with a glass cutter and knock the corners
off? I've never had acceptable results cutting glass before, so I'm
going to practice. Man at the hardware store said cut with streak of
kerosene on the glass. I'm not 100% what that does though.

I had the privilege of being a paint salesman in a paint and glass store,
back in the 1970s. I learnt a lot of the 'basics' from the glass cutters
downstairs.

First -- yes. I just bought standard panes of double-thick window glass
and cut them myself. I seamed the edges with wet Carborundum paper on a
carpeted sanding block. The pros use a narrow-belt belt sander with a
water drip.

Although it doesn't seem like it, glass isn't a crystalline solid, but a
super-cooled fluid. It will (actually) 'heal' after a score line has
been made in it. The line won't go away, but the stresses created when
rolling the line will eventually dissipate (although, rarely, the glass
will break all by itself while sitting on the table -- and usually on the
line!)

Kerosene both lubricates the cutting wheel, and helps slow down that
healing, somehow. Normally, one should snap the line within just seconds
of making it, but with kerosene, you can often wait up to a minute or two
without mishap. Still, you should proceed as quickly as possible. Just
paint a very wet wide line of kerosene along the line you intend to cut,
with a paintbrush.

Some professionals use a diamond-tipped scriber to 'cut' glass, but our
guys back then used the common Fletcher-Terry rolling cutters.

Supporting the glass on a very level cushioned cutting surface (again,
carpeted with very low-loop flush carpet), you put quite a bit of steady
pressure on the wheel, and just roll it smoothly with uniform speed (say,
about 100-200 ipm) along a straightedge. It should "hiss" distinctly and
very evenly as you roll along. If you hear skips and starts in the
hissing noise, you've got skips and starts in the depth of your groove.
DO NOT roll back over a bad line... you'll just wreck the cutter, and
maybe shatter the glass trying.

Pick up the glass a little, and place a thick straightedge (like a
yardstick) under the glass, right along-side the cut. Then just gently
press down on both sides of the line starting at one end of the score,
and proceeding gently along the line as you see the crack grow. It'll
usually zip right apart at the first pressure, all the way along the
line. But I've also seen it go progressively, with thin glass.

It's not a 'super skill'; just takes a little practice.

In my opinion, Red Devil cutters are not as smooth-running or as reliable
as the Fletcher-Terry ones.

Lloyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
:

Did you just cut the glass with a glass cutter and knock the corners
off? I've never had acceptable results cutting glass before, so I'm
going to practice. Man at the hardware store said cut with streak of
kerosene on the glass. I'm not 100% what that does though.

I had the privilege of being a paint salesman in a paint and glass store,
back in the 1970s. I learnt a lot of the 'basics' from the glass cutters
downstairs.

First -- yes. I just bought standard panes of double-thick window glass
and cut them myself. I seamed the edges with wet Carborundum paper on a
carpeted sanding block. The pros use a narrow-belt belt sander with a
water drip.

Although it doesn't seem like it, glass isn't a crystalline solid, but a
super-cooled fluid. It will (actually) 'heal' after a score line has
been made in it. The line won't go away, but the stresses created when
rolling the line will eventually dissipate (although, rarely, the glass
will break all by itself while sitting on the table -- and usually on the
line!)

Kerosene both lubricates the cutting wheel, and helps slow down that
healing, somehow. Normally, one should snap the line within just seconds

weird, and interesting. Hardware store man said cutting old glass is
harder as it's more brittle. Ever hear of this?

of making it, but with kerosene, you can often wait up to a minute or two
without mishap. Still, you should proceed as quickly as possible. Just
paint a very wet wide line of kerosene along the line you intend to cut,
with a paintbrush.

Some professionals use a diamond-tipped scriber to 'cut' glass, but our
guys back then used the common Fletcher-Terry rolling cutters.

Supporting the glass on a very level cushioned cutting surface (again,
carpeted with very low-loop flush carpet), you put quite a bit of steady
pressure on the wheel, and just roll it smoothly with uniform speed (say,
about 100-200 ipm) along a straightedge. It should "hiss" distinctly and
very evenly as you roll along. If you hear skips and starts in the
hissing noise, you've got skips and starts in the depth of your groove.
DO NOT roll back over a bad line... you'll just wreck the cutter, and
maybe shatter the glass trying.

I can get the hiss and the crushing level of sound where more chips of
glass fly away from the score. Is #2 too hard?

Pick up the glass a little, and place a thick straightedge (like a
yardstick) under the glass, right along-side the cut. Then just gently
press down on both sides of the line starting at one end of the score,
and proceeding gently along the line as you see the crack grow. It'll
usually zip right apart at the first pressure, all the way along the
line. But I've also seen it go progressively, with thin glass.

It's not a 'super skill'; just takes a little practice.

In my opinion, Red Devil cutters are not as smooth-running or as reliable
as the Fletcher-Terry ones.

I noticed the fletcher cutter (brand new) has a slightly smaller wheel
then the red devil one I had in the tool pile, that only appeared after I
bought the fletcher one. Go figure.

One person I spoke to says he cut glass through a layer of scotch tape to
catch more of the sharp stuff. Anybody hear of this?

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
:

weird, and interesting. Hardware store man said cutting old glass is
harder as it's more brittle. Ever hear of this?

I've _heard_ it, but in practice, our shop cut all sorts of 'salvage
glass'; some of it many decades old before being removed from
storefronts.

I've personally cut glass that I've had lying around the shop more than
ten years with no more difficulty than 'new'.

I suspect it's a 'wives tale' based upon the fact that glass alloys and
casting methods have changed over time. For reasons I don't understand,
"float" glass cuts more easily than bed-cast glass -- maybe because of
the asymmetrical strains set up between one face and the other. Despite
the fact that it can relieve minor strains, major ones are relieved very
slowly, if ever. Take a Prince Rupert's Drop as an example. Versions of
that have functioned properly after a hundred years (or more).

Some older glass was literally "blown", cut from the bubble, then laid on
a hot platen to flatten out. That's the wavy stuff you see in very old
structures. That's a bitch to cut well (or at least repeatably), because
of the varying thicknesses and uneven strain levels across the sheet.

I can get the hiss and the crushing level of sound where more chips of
glass fly away from the score. Is #2 too hard?

I'm not sure I get that... do you mean two pounds pressure?

I don't really know the exact force I use... like I said, it's sort of a
'knack' to get that nice clean hiss out of the wheel. When you hear it,
you know you've got it. And only a little practice on scrap glass will
get you there in a short time.

It's more the precision of the score than the depth. A good, clean score
line that snaps easily and cleanly is quite shallow. A lot of spalling
and chips from the surface being scored indicate a dull wheel. ANY wheel
that's been run again down an already-scored line is screwed. And Cheap
Chinese cutters are a false economy. A good one is inexpensive, and
lasts a long time if lubricated and used carefully.


I noticed the fletcher cutter (brand new) has a slightly smaller wheel
then the red devil one I had in the tool pile, that only appeared
after I bought the fletcher one. Go figure.

Never noticed that, but that might explain why the F-T cutters seem to
cut easier. More pressure per square inch of contact area.

One person I spoke to says he cut glass through a layer of scotch tape
to catch more of the sharp stuff. Anybody hear of this?

There's no "sharp stuff" of any consequence coming off the wheel when
it's working right (i.e. 'sharp'). It is 'ground glass', to be sure, and
I'm sure you wouldn't want to eat it. But it's a fine dust, done right.
I've never been cut on the leavings of scoring -- have been on the items
below, though.

Some sharp shards and needle-like slivvers can come off a snap line if
the scoring isn't perfectly even, or if you move the two panes, and crush
the edges together slightly just after snapping. The edges are
exquisitely sharp, and therefore also delicate. Maybe tape over the
score would help, but most of the shards come off the bottom side... I
don't think cutting through tape would be productive (but never tried).

LLoyd

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
:

weird, and interesting. Hardware store man said cutting old glass is
harder as it's more brittle. Ever hear of this?

I've _heard_ it, but in practice, our shop cut all sorts of 'salvage
glass'; some of it many decades old before being removed from
storefronts.

I've personally cut glass that I've had lying around the shop more than
ten years with no more difficulty than 'new'.

I suspect it's a 'wives tale' based upon the fact that glass alloys and
casting methods have changed over time. For reasons I don't understand,
"float" glass cuts more easily than bed-cast glass -- maybe because of
the asymmetrical strains set up between one face and the other. Despite
the fact that it can relieve minor strains, major ones are relieved very
slowly, if ever. Take a Prince Rupert's Drop as an example. Versions of
that have functioned properly after a hundred years (or more).

Some older glass was literally "blown", cut from the bubble, then laid on
a hot platen to flatten out. That's the wavy stuff you see in very old
structures. That's a bitch to cut well (or at least repeatably), because
of the varying thicknesses and uneven strain levels across the sheet.

I can get the hiss and the crushing level of sound where more chips of
glass fly away from the score. Is #2 too hard?

I'm not sure I get that... do you mean two pounds pressure?

I don't really know the exact force I use... like I said, it's sort of a
'knack' to get that nice clean hiss out of the wheel. When you hear it,
you know you've got it. And only a little practice on scrap glass will
get you there in a short time.

It's more the precision of the score than the depth. A good, clean score
line that snaps easily and cleanly is quite shallow. A lot of spalling
and chips from the surface being scored indicate a dull wheel. ANY wheel
that's been run again down an already-scored line is screwed. And Cheap
Chinese cutters are a false economy. A good one is inexpensive, and
lasts a long time if lubricated and used carefully.


I noticed the fletcher cutter (brand new) has a slightly smaller wheel
then the red devil one I had in the tool pile, that only appeared
after I bought the fletcher one. Go figure.

Never noticed that, but that might explain why the F-T cutters seem to
cut easier. More pressure per square inch of contact area.

One person I spoke to says he cut glass through a layer of scotch tape
to catch more of the sharp stuff. Anybody hear of this?

There's no "sharp stuff" of any consequence coming off the wheel when
it's working right (i.e. 'sharp'). It is 'ground glass', to be sure, and
I'm sure you wouldn't want to eat it. But it's a fine dust, done right.
I've never been cut on the leavings of scoring -- have been on the items
below, though.

Some sharp shards and needle-like slivvers can come off a snap line if
the scoring isn't perfectly even, or if you move the two panes, and crush
the edges together slightly just after snapping. The edges are
exquisitely sharp, and therefore also delicate. Maybe tape over the
score would help, but most of the shards come off the bottom side... I
don't think cutting through tape would be productive (but never tried).

LLoyd


Holding the wheel at an angle other than 90 degrees will cause more
sharp shards.

Ever flame the scored line to get a cleaner break?


Watch VERY close if you buy a cheap cutter, I have seen a LOT of them
where the wheel wasn't ground true. Trying to use a wheel that acts like
a screw thread as it turns WILL be a waste of time.

Carbide is great for blown glass and odd shapes.

--
Steve W.

"Steve W." fired this volley in news:m5o04e$pgs$1
@dont-email.me:

Ever flame the scored line to get a cleaner break?

Never needed to; but I've only cut 'shop-stock glass' myself, never any of
the antique blown glass. I've never had problems snapping a clean score.

Lloyd

"Steve W." fired this volley in news:m5o04e$pgs$1
@dont-email.me:

Carbide is great for blown glass and odd shapes.

PS... I've cut circles and other geometric shapes with only a hardened
steel wheel. Curves are where I have most often seen "progressive"
breaks, instead of clean snaps. There are 'kinks' to cutting oddball
shapes, like scoring the lines all the way to the edges of the sheet for
any side of a polygon, and only scoring one polygon side at a time, so
you're only straining one line. Otherwise, it might start to break in a
direction you don't want.

I suppose carbide would be better for everything. It certainly would be
less likely to be buggered-up by re-scoring a line. Never had one,
though.

I still have a (good) F-T cutter that's most of twenty years old in an
oiled bag. (that's another tip. Store the cutter in a bag with an oil-
saturated pad to discourage corrosion). The pros keep them in a cup full
of machine oil or kerosene, so the wheel, axle, and all the levering
slots are kept under the liquid.

Lloyd

On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 11:54:51 AM UTC-6, Cydrome Leader wrote:
I've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

Watched a vid on youtube the other day. Search "how to build an aquarium" Just glass and silicone. I'm gona make one now.

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 13:45:59 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Cydrome Leader wrote:

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5kud9
:

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous pitch
originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant. Sticks to
glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough to keep the glass
from skewing away from the joint under water pressure.

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep of the
edges?

It's specific silicones that do not release substances toxic to fish
after they have cured. The regular window caulk type silicones will tend
to kill your fish.
I bought a couple 1 1/2 ounce tubes of Loctite clear silicone:
http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/cnt...of-Sealant.htm
except that mine is labelled as "aquarium safe" in the upper LH
corner; when I found it marked down from $4.99 to $1.97 at Mary Maxim,
Port Huron Mi. a couple years back. I haven't had occasion to use it
on my 140 l. tank, since the only leakage was over the top, between
the ackrylic walls and the plastic canopy caused by my 12" Pleco
executing trout like maoeuvers. I injected crazy glue gel through
holes drilled through the canopy lip. Worked great!
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On Tue, 02 Dec 2014 15:07:40 -0600, "Pete C."
wrote:


Terry Coombs wrote:

Pete C. wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
news:m5kud9 :

've always wondered about this.

How are glass fishtanks glued together, and with what?

The old ones with the metal frames were 'glued' with bituminous
pitch originally, and later with a sticky rubber tape.

The newer "frameless" variety are glued with silicone sealant.
Sticks to glass just fine, lasts a long time, and is strong enough
to keep the glass from skewing away from the joint under water
pressure.

Is it just plain silicone for the frameless ones? Any special prep
of the edges?

It's specific silicones that do not release substances toxic to fish
after they have cured. The regular window caulk type silicones will
tend to kill your fish.

That's not necessarily true , Pete ... I built an acquarium for my wife in
like 1987-88 , I used over the counter silicone from the hardware store .
Whatcha gotta do is let it fully cure before you put fish in it . We've had
fish live 2-3 years , one in particular was a pleco that got over 8" long
...

I had a couple pacu that were over 12"... at least until my idiot mother
who was supposed to be watching them while I was out of town managed to
kill them The two plecos that are about 8" and 10" survived.
My big Pleco was about 6" long when the neice of SWMBO sent him home
with me five years ago. I also have a 4" Pleco and a 1" albino Pleco.
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

On 12/3/2014 3:34 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
:

weird, and interesting. Hardware store man said cutting old glass is
harder as it's more brittle. Ever hear of this?

I've _heard_ it, but in practice, our shop cut all sorts of 'salvage
glass'; some of it many decades old before being removed from
storefronts.

I've personally cut glass that I've had lying around the shop more than
ten years with no more difficulty than 'new'.

I suspect it's a 'wives tale' based upon the fact that glass alloys and
casting methods have changed over time. For reasons I don't understand,
"float" glass cuts more easily than bed-cast glass -- maybe because of
the asymmetrical strains set up between one face and the other. Despite
the fact that it can relieve minor strains, major ones are relieved very
slowly, if ever. Take a Prince Rupert's Drop as an example. Versions of
that have functioned properly after a hundred years (or more).

Some older glass was literally "blown", cut from the bubble, then laid on
a hot platen to flatten out. That's the wavy stuff you see in very old
structures. That's a bitch to cut well (or at least repeatably), because
of the varying thicknesses and uneven strain levels across the sheet.

Some time back I did some glass engraving using a high speed rotary
tool(35K RPM). Newer glass cut fine and dandy, but the somebody brought
me some 80+ year old stained glass. THAT was a hard time. Even using
plenty of lube and diamond bits it took a lot of time ,effort and a
multitude of bits.
I did not do any more of that glass! Although newer stained glass was
not a problem.

On 04/12/14 16:31, bobm46 wrote:
On 12/3/2014 3:34 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
:

weird, and interesting. Hardware store man said cutting old glass is
harder as it's more brittle. Ever hear of this?

I've _heard_ it, but in practice, our shop cut all sorts of 'salvage
glass'; some of it many decades old before being removed from
storefronts.

I've personally cut glass that I've had lying around the shop more than
ten years with no more difficulty than 'new'.

I suspect it's a 'wives tale' based upon the fact that glass alloys and
casting methods have changed over time. For reasons I don't understand,
"float" glass cuts more easily than bed-cast glass -- maybe because of
the asymmetrical strains set up between one face and the other. Despite
the fact that it can relieve minor strains, major ones are relieved very
slowly, if ever. Take a Prince Rupert's Drop as an example. Versions of
that have functioned properly after a hundred years (or more).

Some older glass was literally "blown", cut from the bubble, then
laid on
a hot platen to flatten out. That's the wavy stuff you see in very old
structures. That's a bitch to cut well (or at least repeatably),
because
of the varying thicknesses and uneven strain levels across the sheet.

Some time back I did some glass engraving using a high speed
rotary tool(35K RPM). Newer glass cut fine and dandy, but the somebody
brought me some 80+ year old stained glass. THAT was a hard time. Even
using plenty of lube and diamond bits it took a lot of time ,effort
and a multitude of bits.
I did not do any more of that glass! Although newer stained glass
was not a problem.
It can depend on the glass formulation. Lead crystal was/is favoured by
people doing cold working, such as engraving, as it is softer than soda
lime glass and easier to work with. Not so many people doing lead
crystal these days due to the health concerns but I know a few that
still work with it due to the demand for it by people that will
subsequently have it cold worked or for restoration work where the
original was lead crystal.

Steve W. wrote:
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in
:

weird, and interesting. Hardware store man said cutting old glass is
harder as it's more brittle. Ever hear of this?

I've _heard_ it, but in practice, our shop cut all sorts of 'salvage
glass'; some of it many decades old before being removed from
storefronts.

I've personally cut glass that I've had lying around the shop more than
ten years with no more difficulty than 'new'.

I suspect it's a 'wives tale' based upon the fact that glass alloys and
casting methods have changed over time. For reasons I don't understand,
"float" glass cuts more easily than bed-cast glass -- maybe because of
the asymmetrical strains set up between one face and the other. Despite
the fact that it can relieve minor strains, major ones are relieved very
slowly, if ever. Take a Prince Rupert's Drop as an example. Versions of
that have functioned properly after a hundred years (or more).

Some older glass was literally "blown", cut from the bubble, then laid on
a hot platen to flatten out. That's the wavy stuff you see in very old
structures. That's a bitch to cut well (or at least repeatably), because
of the varying thicknesses and uneven strain levels across the sheet.

I can get the hiss and the crushing level of sound where more chips of
glass fly away from the score. Is #2 too hard?

I'm not sure I get that... do you mean two pounds pressure?

I don't really know the exact force I use... like I said, it's sort of a
'knack' to get that nice clean hiss out of the wheel. When you hear it,
you know you've got it. And only a little practice on scrap glass will
get you there in a short time.

It's more the precision of the score than the depth. A good, clean score
line that snaps easily and cleanly is quite shallow. A lot of spalling
and chips from the surface being scored indicate a dull wheel. ANY wheel
that's been run again down an already-scored line is screwed. And Cheap
Chinese cutters are a false economy. A good one is inexpensive, and
lasts a long time if lubricated and used carefully.


I noticed the fletcher cutter (brand new) has a slightly smaller wheel
then the red devil one I had in the tool pile, that only appeared
after I bought the fletcher one. Go figure.

Never noticed that, but that might explain why the F-T cutters seem to
cut easier. More pressure per square inch of contact area.

One person I spoke to says he cut glass through a layer of scotch tape
to catch more of the sharp stuff. Anybody hear of this?

There's no "sharp stuff" of any consequence coming off the wheel when
it's working right (i.e. 'sharp'). It is 'ground glass', to be sure, and
I'm sure you wouldn't want to eat it. But it's a fine dust, done right.
I've never been cut on the leavings of scoring -- have been on the items
below, though.

Some sharp shards and needle-like slivvers can come off a snap line if
the scoring isn't perfectly even, or if you move the two panes, and crush
the edges together slightly just after snapping. The edges are
exquisitely sharp, and therefore also delicate. Maybe tape over the
score would help, but most of the shards come off the bottom side... I
don't think cutting through tape would be productive (but never tried).

LLoyd


Holding the wheel at an angle other than 90 degrees will cause more
sharp shards.

Ever flame the scored line to get a cleaner break?

How is this performed, I've got pleny of propane torches if those are
acceptable.

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5q4rb
:

How is this performed, I've got pleny of propane torches if those are
acceptable.


The common wisdom is that the flame is just lightly and quickly played
along the score... not getting any one part hotter than another. When
the scored surface gets hot enough, the developed strains cause it to
break along the line without any bending.

It should work. I've never tried it. Sounds like "more work" to me.
Snapping works fine on a properly-scored line, even with pretty thick
stock.

Lloyd

On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 8:47:15 PM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
amdx fired this volley in news:m5lo5v$n8k$1@dont-
email.me:

But I'd go with aquarium silicone to be safe.
It's available locally and online.

If you've got several tanks to do, it's an unnecessary expense.

Just make sure the tube you get does NOT list biocides or "GE Bioseal" in
the nomenclature.

Remember, GE type I silicone was ALL that was available for decades. We
used it from about 1964 on for making our own aquaria.

Lloyd

Yeah GE silicone.. it also said something on the package about food safe.
I use to buy it at Home Depot, but I haven't seen it in a while.
I think it used acetic acid rather than ammonia as the.. (?) Well thinner is not the right word.

So a funny story, I found some old plate glass (1/4") and decided to make my own aquarium, ~ 2'x3'x2' (two feet deep.) I put it all together and started to fill it up in the basement. I went up stairs and, when I came back down it was ~3/4 full and the sides at the top were bulging out several inches!!! There's a lot of side pressure. Needless to say I stopped the fill drained it and added a frame at the top to hold it together. But I was very impressed with the silicone. No special surface prep, but I cleaned with detergent and water and then isopropyl alcohol.

Don't forget the top frame,
George H.

fired this volley in
:

I think it used acetic acid rather than ammonia as the.. (?) Well
thinner is not the right word.

FWIW, they don't "use" acetic acid. Acetic acid is evolved as a product of
curing. The GE Silicone II product evolves methanol instead of acetic
acid.

Lloyd

On Thursday, December 4, 2014 2:13:03 PM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
fired this volley in
:

I think it used acetic acid rather than ammonia as the.. (?) Well
thinner is not the right word.

FWIW, they don't "use" acetic acid. Acetic acid is evolved as a product of
curing. The GE Silicone II product evolves methanol instead of acetic
acid.

Lloyd

Thanks Lloyd.

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
fired this volley in
:

I think it used acetic acid rather than ammonia as the.. (?) Well
thinner is not the right word.

FWIW, they don't "use" acetic acid. Acetic acid is evolved as a product of
curing. The GE Silicone II product evolves methanol instead of acetic
acid.

What actually causes silicone to cure?

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5qeo6
:

What actually causes silicone to cure?

Moisture from the air. It will cure more slowly in very low humidity.

LLoyd

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5qeo6
:

What actually causes silicone to cure?

PS... there are other types of cure, but the most common ones are type I
and type II silicones over the counter.

There are some that produce amines on cure, also, and at least one that
produces acetone. FWIW, acetone is the least toxic of all of them.

Lloyd

On Thu, 04 Dec 2014 14:53:34 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5qeo6
:

What actually causes silicone to cure?

Moisture from the air. It will cure more slowly in very low humidity.

LLoyd

Indeed! it does. Here in the desert..silicone can take 2x-3x as long
to cure in the summer months.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On 12/4/2014 12:16 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 2, 2014 8:47:15 PM UTC-5, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
amdx fired this volley in news:m5lo5v$n8k$1@dont-
email.me:

But I'd go with aquarium silicone to be safe.
It's available locally and online.

If you've got several tanks to do, it's an unnecessary expense.

Just make sure the tube you get does NOT list biocides or "GE Bioseal" in
the nomenclature.

Remember, GE type I silicone was ALL that was available for decades. We
used it from about 1964 on for making our own aquaria.

Lloyd

Yeah GE silicone.. it also said something on the package about food safe.
I use to buy it at Home Depot, but I haven't seen it in a while.
I think it used acetic acid rather than ammonia as the.. (?) Well thinner is not the right word.

So a funny story, I found some old plate glass (1/4") and decided to make my own aquarium, ~ 2'x3'x2' (two feet deep.) I put it all together and started to fill it up in the basement. I went up stairs and, when I came back down it was ~3/4 full and the sides at the top were bulging out several inches!!! There's a lot of side pressure. Needless to say I stopped the fill drained it and added a frame at the top to hold it together. But I was very impressed with the silicone. No special surface prep, but I cleaned with detergent and water and then isopropyl alcohol.

Don't forget the top frame,
George H.

My 150 gallon tank has 3/4" thick walls. That sucker is heavy! I put
in a pier deeper than the tank is tall and wider. It is sitting on a
tall frame. Water is tough stuff when it gets deep!

I keep salt water in mine with a near dozen fish, shrimp and other sea
creatures.

Martin

On 12/4/2014 2:56 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:m5qeo6
:

What actually causes silicone to cure?

PS... there are other types of cure, but the most common ones are type I
and type II silicones over the counter.

There are some that produce amines on cure, also, and at least one that
produces acetone. FWIW, acetone is the least toxic of all of them.

Lloyd

I used a special fortified form for the Glass rope on my wood stove
out in the mountains of Ca. Nice to have that big stove today.

Martin