On Monday, October 27, 2014 2:43:09 PM UTC-4, raykeller wrote:

Govt. Researchers: Flu Shots Not Effective in Elderly, After All

Sharyl Attkisson | October 26, 2014

An important and definitive "mainstream" government study done nearly a
decade ago got little attention because the science came down on the wrong
side. It found that after decades and billions of dollars spent promoting
flu shots for the elderly, the mass vaccination program did not result in
saving lives. In fact, the death rate among the elderly increased
substantially.



But when they finished, no matter how they crunched the numbers, the data
kept telling the same story: flu shots were of no benefit to the elderly.
Quite the opposite. The death rate had increased markedly since widespread
flu vaccination among older Americans. The scientists finally had to
acknowledge that decades of public health thought had been mistaken.

As I read it flu shots did not change the mortality rate. But the study did not address whether flu shots reduced the number of people that got the flu.

I do not get a flu shot because I think it will save my life. I get a flu shot so I do not get sick as a dog with the flu. Since I started getting flu shots, I have not gotten the flu.

Dan

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 14:57:32 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, October 27, 2014 2:43:09 PM UTC-4, raykeller wrote:

Govt. Researchers: Flu Shots Not Effective in Elderly, After All

Sharyl Attkisson | October 26, 2014

An important and definitive "mainstream" government study done nearly a
decade ago got little attention because the science came down on the wrong
side. It found that after decades and billions of dollars spent promoting
flu shots for the elderly, the mass vaccination program did not result in
saving lives. In fact, the death rate among the elderly increased
substantially.



But when they finished, no matter how they crunched the numbers, the data
kept telling the same story: flu shots were of no benefit to the elderly.
Quite the opposite. The death rate had increased markedly since widespread
flu vaccination among older Americans. The scientists finally had to
acknowledge that decades of public health thought had been mistaken.

As I read it flu shots did not change the mortality rate. But the study did not address whether flu shots reduced the number of people that got the flu.

I do not get a flu shot because I think it will save my life. I get a flu shot so I do not get sick as a dog with the flu. Since I started getting flu shots, I have not gotten the flu.

Dan
If the only metric used to judge vaccines was whether they reduced
substantially or eliminated deaths then almost no vaccine would be
judged to be doing a good job. Measels, mumps, rubella, shingles,
polio, and HPV infections do not usually cause death. These infections
do cause a host of other debilitating health problems which in turn
cause a lot of human misery, and they cost a lot to treat. We
vaccinate against these infections because they are so hard on our
health and the economy. On the other hand, if the metric by which we
judged whether Ray Keller was an asshole because he spouts mostly
nonsense, won't listen to reason, and is a right wing loon, then it
would be accurate.

On 10/27/2014 5:56 PM, wrote:
If the only metric used to judge vaccines was whether they reduced
substantially or eliminated deaths then almost no vaccine would be
judged to be doing a good job. Measels, mumps, rubella, shingles,
polio, and HPV infections do not usually cause death.

I guess yo weren't around back in the 50s.

I had several childhood friends who dies from polio.

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:56:29 -0700, wrote:

Path: border2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!u senet.blueworldhosting.com!feeder01.blueworldhosti ng.com!news.alt.net
From:
Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
Subject: Govt. Researchers: Flu Shots Not Effective in Elderly, After All
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:56:29 -0700
Organization: Altopia Corp. - Usenet Access - www.altopia.com
Lines: 40
Message-ID:
References:
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American)
X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 141027-2, 10/27/2014), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
Bytes: 2962
Xref: number.nntp.giganews.com rec.crafts.metalworking:1511049

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 14:57:32 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Monday, October 27, 2014 2:43:09 PM UTC-4, raykeller wrote:

Govt. Researchers: Flu Shots Not Effective in Elderly, After All

Sharyl Attkisson | October 26, 2014

An important and definitive "mainstream" government study done nearly a
decade ago got little attention because the science came down on the wrong
side. It found that after decades and billions of dollars spent promoting
flu shots for the elderly, the mass vaccination program did not result in
saving lives. In fact, the death rate among the elderly increased
substantially.



But when they finished, no matter how they crunched the numbers, the data
kept telling the same story: flu shots were of no benefit to the elderly.
Quite the opposite. The death rate had increased markedly since widespread
flu vaccination among older Americans. The scientists finally had to
acknowledge that decades of public health thought had been mistaken.

As I read it flu shots did not change the mortality rate. But the study did not address whether flu shots reduced the number of people that got the flu.

I do not get a flu shot because I think it will save my life. I get a flu shot so I do not get sick as a dog with the flu. Since I started getting flu shots, I have not gotten the flu.

Dan
If the only metric used to judge vaccines was whether they reduced
substantially or eliminated deaths then almost no vaccine would be
judged to be doing a good job. Measels, mumps, rubella, shingles,
polio, and HPV infections do not usually cause death. These infections
do cause a host of other debilitating health problems which in turn
cause a lot of human misery, and they cost a lot to treat. We
vaccinate against these infections because they are so hard on our
health and the economy. On the other hand, if the metric by which we
judged whether Ray Keller was an asshole because he spouts mostly
nonsense, won't listen to reason, and is a right wing loon, then it
would be accurate.

Odd that you would call the report nonsense. Or is the NIH a
fraudulent government agency?

Its interesting to note that this claim is different than the original

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/n...ry_147843.html

Then there is this one...

http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-New...red-flags.aspx

And this one....

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...e-effects.aspx

And this

http://info.debgroup.com/blog/bid/27...e-Best-Defense


Ill guarantee that if you get a shot of cyanide, you will NOT get the
flu. So is it an effective vaccine against the flu?

Inquiring minds want to know...hoser.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:16:32 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 10/27/2014 5:56 PM, wrote:
If the only metric used to judge vaccines was whether they reduced
substantially or eliminated deaths then almost no vaccine would be
judged to be doing a good job. Measels, mumps, rubella, shingles,
polio, and HPV infections do not usually cause death.

I guess yo weren't around back in the 50s.

I had several childhood friends who dies from polio.

Then there was the Thalidiomide kids. Didnt kill most of them...just
gave em flippers and destroyed their brains.


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:58:30 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:16:32 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 10/27/2014 5:56 PM, wrote:
If the only metric used to judge vaccines was whether they reduced
substantially or eliminated deaths then almost no vaccine would be
judged to be doing a good job. Measels, mumps, rubella, shingles,
polio, and HPV infections do not usually cause death.

I guess yo weren't around back in the 50s.

I had several childhood friends who dies from polio.

Then there was the Thalidiomide kids. Didnt kill most of them...just
gave em flippers and destroyed their brains.

And Thalidomide is still marketed but undoubtedly with warnings about
it's side effects.
--
Cheers,

John B.

"John B. Slocomb" wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:58:30 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:16:32 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 10/27/2014 5:56 PM, wrote:
If the only metric used to judge vaccines was whether they reduced
substantially or eliminated deaths then almost no vaccine would be
judged to be doing a good job. Measels, mumps, rubella, shingles,
polio, and HPV infections do not usually cause death.

I guess yo weren't around back in the 50s.

I had several childhood friends who dies from polio.

Then there was the Thalidiomide kids. Didnt kill most of them...just
gave em flippers and destroyed their brains.


And Thalidomide is still marketed but undoubtedly with warnings about
it's side effects.

It's marketed, packaged with warnings in 47 languages, pictures on the
box of Thalidomide birth defects and the like, yet still people are too
stupid to use it properly. Unfortunately it is one of the only effective
treatments for certain debilitating ailments so it can't be eliminated.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:42:50 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


"John B. Slocomb" wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:58:30 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:16:32 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 10/27/2014 5:56 PM, wrote:
If the only metric used to judge vaccines was whether they reduced
substantially or eliminated deaths then almost no vaccine would be
judged to be doing a good job. Measels, mumps, rubella, shingles,
polio, and HPV infections do not usually cause death.

I guess yo weren't around back in the 50s.

I had several childhood friends who dies from polio.

Then there was the Thalidiomide kids. Didnt kill most of them...just
gave em flippers and destroyed their brains.


And Thalidomide is still marketed but undoubtedly with warnings about
it's side effects.

It's marketed, packaged with warnings in 47 languages, pictures on the
box of Thalidomide birth defects and the like, yet still people are too
stupid to use it properly. Unfortunately it is one of the only effective
treatments for certain debilitating ailments so it can't be eliminated.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...ry-banned.html

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/406384


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 09:42:50 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


"John B. Slocomb" wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 17:58:30 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:16:32 -0500, Richard
wrote:

On 10/27/2014 5:56 PM, wrote:
If the only metric used to judge vaccines was whether they reduced
substantially or eliminated deaths then almost no vaccine would be
judged to be doing a good job. Measels, mumps, rubella, shingles,
polio, and HPV infections do not usually cause death.

I guess yo weren't around back in the 50s.

I had several childhood friends who dies from polio.

Then there was the Thalidiomide kids. Didnt kill most of them...just
gave em flippers and destroyed their brains.


And Thalidomide is still marketed but undoubtedly with warnings about
it's side effects.

It's marketed, packaged with warnings in 47 languages, pictures on the
box of Thalidomide birth defects and the like, yet still people are too
stupid to use it properly. Unfortunately it is one of the only effective
treatments for certain debilitating ailments so it can't be eliminated.

Many drugs have side effects that can kill you fairly quickly. The
various "statins" that are usually given to reduce cholesterol can
damage your kidneys very rapidly, for example. But they are still the
usual remedy prescribed for the problem. If you read the "instructions
for user" packed with the drug there is considerable emphasis on
proper kidney and liver function tests that are recommended to be
carried out during a course of treatment.

--
Cheers,

John B.