No republican will congratulate his leadership.

If it does crash ..Republicans will be blamed ..they are the ones who claim to have made it rise.

Just like the overwhelming majority of Americans believe the GOP caused the govt shutdown.

Gummer I will for sure **** on your grave first .

On 2013-12-08, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 04:56:32 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A hypocrite
TeaBillie on welfare!" wrote:

No republican will congratulate his leadership.

Oh..you mean the stock market bubble that is going to explode before
long?

Why would we congratulate him for the impending explosion and
destruction of the stock market in the near future?

I want to make a couple of points.

First, stock market going up, or down, is a natural feature of
capitalist capital markets. Neither going up, or down, is particularly
good or bad. Stocks going up, or down, do not make us richer or poorer
as a whole society. They simply reflect a price at which people are
willing to trade claims on future earnings. Stock prices, within
reasonably wide range, have minimal effect on our future income as a
whole.

Secondly, the office of the president does not decree stock prices,
they go up and down for reasons of their own.

In other words, I do not feel particularly thankful to our president
for stocks going up, and I would not blame the president for stock
prices going down.

Third, despite considerable run-up in prices over the last few years,
stocks are priced quite reasonably in relation to their earnings. I do
not see a "bubble" just because a few clown "forecasters" are saying
so. $100 buys you $6 of next year earnings and it is not crazy,
especially in relation to how much you can get from a bank savings
account.

Fourth, you would do very well if you ignore all stock market
forecasters entirely. Just think of how much earnings can you buy for
a dollar invested, and act accordingly.

I put essentially al my family money into stocks in 2008-2009, when I
realized that at the prevailing prices, if I buy stocks, I will get so
much dividends in the subsequent years, that I should not worry about
stock prices falling even further. Whatever stock prices would do,
from there on, would not matter as much. It happened that they shot up
and more than doubled from there. I have not sold stocks since then
and I am very happy, ad would have been happy from just dividends even
if stocks stayed low. The point is not that I could predict that
stocks would go up, but that I saw value in terms of earnings per
dollar invested.

Had I followed your Republican dogma instead, I would have faced
ruinous consequences. I have no idea what stocks will do next year,
and neither does anything else. But I am happy to concinue owning them
at current prices.

i

i

On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 11:14:28 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A hypocrite
TeaBillie on welfare!" wrote:

Gummer I will for sure **** on your grave first .

You have my address. Want to come and test that claim?

Anytime you are ready.

Gunner

--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 13:56:59 -0600, Ignoramus3322
wrote:

On 2013-12-08, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 04:56:32 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A hypocrite
TeaBillie on welfare!" wrote:

No republican will congratulate his leadership.

Oh..you mean the stock market bubble that is going to explode before
long?

Why would we congratulate him for the impending explosion and
destruction of the stock market in the near future?

I want to make a couple of points.

First, stock market going up, or down, is a natural feature of
capitalist capital markets. Neither going up, or down, is particularly
good or bad. Stocks going up, or down, do not make us richer or poorer
as a whole society. They simply reflect a price at which people are
willing to trade claims on future earnings. Stock prices, within
reasonably wide range, have minimal effect on our future income as a
whole.

Secondly, the office of the president does not decree stock prices,
they go up and down for reasons of their own.

In other words, I do not feel particularly thankful to our president
for stocks going up, and I would not blame the president for stock
prices going down.

Third, despite considerable run-up in prices over the last few years,
stocks are priced quite reasonably in relation to their earnings. I do
not see a "bubble" just because a few clown "forecasters" are saying
so. $100 buys you $6 of next year earnings and it is not crazy,
especially in relation to how much you can get from a bank savings
account.

Fourth, you would do very well if you ignore all stock market
forecasters entirely. Just think of how much earnings can you buy for
a dollar invested, and act accordingly.

I put essentially al my family money into stocks in 2008-2009, when I
realized that at the prevailing prices, if I buy stocks, I will get so
much dividends in the subsequent years, that I should not worry about
stock prices falling even further. Whatever stock prices would do,
from there on, would not matter as much. It happened that they shot up
and more than doubled from there. I have not sold stocks since then
and I am very happy, ad would have been happy from just dividends even
if stocks stayed low. The point is not that I could predict that
stocks would go up, but that I saw value in terms of earnings per
dollar invested.

Had I followed your Republican dogma instead, I would have faced
ruinous consequences. I have no idea what stocks will do next year,
and neither does anything else. But I am happy to concinue owning them
at current prices.

i

Republican dogma? Im a registered Democrat.


--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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Post it again ..I lost it.

The gloom and doom dogma is how the Wingtards keep their minions in fear, clinging guns under beds.

Gummer is a typical victim.

On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 17:13:53 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A hypocrite
TeaBillie on welfare!" wrote:

The gloom and doom dogma is how the Wingtards keep their minions in fear, clinging guns under beds.

Gummer is a typical victim.

The opinion of a (leftwing) psychopath is laughed at in gusts of
laughter and guaffing

Speaking of doom and gloom..I see Ovomit just dropped below 40% in
popularity in the polls Friday.

(VBG)

So..are you by any chance related to Carney...Ovomits press secretary?

You two trot out the same sort of crap. I was wondering if it was a
genetic flaw or what....


--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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On Sunday, December 8, 2013 2:56:59 PM UTC-5, Ignoramus3322 wrote:

Third, despite considerable run-up in prices over the last few years,

stocks are priced quite reasonably in relation to their earnings. I do

not see a "bubble" just because a few clown "forecasters" are saying

so. $100 buys you $6 of next year earnings and it is not crazy,

especially in relation to how much you can get from a bank savings

account.


i

I am with Iggy. If you go to Yahoo finance and look at the S & P for the maximum time, you will see where there have been bubbles, but will also see that the stock market is maybe a bit below the long term trend. No bubble at this time.

Read " A random walk on Wall Street." Much more worthwhile than the OT comments on RCM.

Dan

On 2013-12-09, wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2013 2:56:59 PM UTC-5, Ignoramus3322 wrote:

Third, despite considerable run-up in prices over the last few years,

stocks are priced quite reasonably in relation to their earnings. I do

not see a "bubble" just because a few clown "forecasters" are saying

so. $100 buys you $6 of next year earnings and it is not crazy,

especially in relation to how much you can get from a bank savings

account.


i

I am with Iggy. If you go to Yahoo finance and look at the S & P
for the maximum time, you will see where there have been bubbles,
but will also see that the stock market is maybe a bit below the
long term trend. No bubble at this time.

Read " A random walk on Wall Street." Much more worthwhile than the
OT comments on RCM.

I second the book recommendation.

The doom and gloom is always a possibility. It is forgotten during
good times and overemphasized during bad times.

In the current situation, the biggest doom and gloom scenario is
inflation, which raises interest rates and interferes in the
government's ability to pay debts. Most US government debt these days,
is short term, and therefore and increase in interest rates will make
servicing the debt much more difficult. The federal debt is
denominated in dollars, and money can always be printed, at the cost
of high inflation.

Considering that, I would rather own a portion of American industry,
and real assets, than a bunch of cash.

i
i

On Sun, 08 Dec 2013 22:17:01 -0600, Ignoramus3322
wrote:

On 2013-12-09, wrote:
On Sunday, December 8, 2013 2:56:59 PM UTC-5, Ignoramus3322 wrote:

Third, despite considerable run-up in prices over the last few years,

stocks are priced quite reasonably in relation to their earnings. I do

not see a "bubble" just because a few clown "forecasters" are saying

so. $100 buys you $6 of next year earnings and it is not crazy,

especially in relation to how much you can get from a bank savings

account.


i

I am with Iggy. If you go to Yahoo finance and look at the S & P
for the maximum time, you will see where there have been bubbles,
but will also see that the stock market is maybe a bit below the
long term trend. No bubble at this time.

Read " A random walk on Wall Street." Much more worthwhile than the
OT comments on RCM.

I second the book recommendation.

The doom and gloom is always a possibility. It is forgotten during
good times and overemphasized during bad times.

In the current situation, the biggest doom and gloom scenario is
inflation, which raises interest rates and interferes in the
government's ability to pay debts. Most US government debt these days,
is short term, and therefore and increase in interest rates will make
servicing the debt much more difficult. The federal debt is
denominated in dollars, and money can always be printed, at the cost
of high inflation.

Considering that, I would rather own a portion of American industry,
and real assets, than a bunch of cash.

Do you expect to be saying that after the next shoe drops?
A US debt default, the next housing bubble bursting, The Great Cull,
race riots, solar or nuke EMP, a _real_ alQaeda attack on USA?
Things happen. How will your stocks fare?

--
I hate being bipolar ....... It's awesome!

On Monday, December 9, 2013 1:14:33 AM UTC-5, Larry Jaques wrote:



Do you expect to be saying that after the next shoe drops?

A US debt default, the next housing bubble bursting, The Great Cull,

race riots, solar or nuke EMP, a _real_ alQaeda attack on USA?

Things happen. How will your stocks fare?

Those things would probably help some of my stocks. Lockheed Martin and Boeing are military contractors and would probably do well. Danaher has lots of companies and may or may not do well. Texas Instruments would probably do well.

Dan

You know what scares gun huggers the most? "Drones " they saw how us govt took out insurgents .. they will do the same the those Nazi ****s.

On Mon, 9 Dec 2013 16:34:22 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A hypocrite
TeaBillie on welfare!" wrote:

You know what scares gun huggers the most? "Drones " they saw how us govt took out insurgents .. they will do the same the those Nazi ****s.

So the drones are going to be dropping Rockeyes in downtown Toledo or
Kansa City?

Interesting

Think that is going to work out well?

Perhaps launch a rocket on pickup truck on a major urban freeway at
rush hour? Oh yes indeed.

You really are mentally twisted and sick.

No matter..anyone as ****ed up in the head as you...goes right into
the kill file.

plink

Gunner marking the time to see how long it takes for him to morph into
someone else.

/hack




--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
" on Mon, 9 Dec 2013
15:02:20 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
...So, yeah, increase in productivity account for something. But
who
is buying when their McJob got outsourced to a machine?


Look at the positive side, you now have free time to enjoy the
environment that you saved by destroying industry.

On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 12:44:22 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
" on Mon, 9 Dec 2013
15:02:20 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
...So, yeah, increase in productivity account for something. But
who
is buying when their McJob got outsourced to a machine?


Look at the positive side, you now have free time to enjoy the
environment that you saved by destroying industry.

And the missing industry is what had paid the taxes to the gov't to
support 'you' in your time of trial, so now the Agenda 21 guys decide
to do "that simple reduction, for the good of the people."

Ta DA! 90% of the population will be allowed to die off.

The remaining 10% will consist of the important (just ask them) people
(1%) with the other 99% to support them. All will be well in the
world. Ya just gotta love the New World Order, don't ya?
Vive la Bilderberg!

thud

--
I hate being bipolar ....... It's awesome!

On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 12:44:22 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
" on Mon, 9 Dec 2013
15:02:20 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
...So, yeah, increase in productivity account for something. But
who
is buying when their McJob got outsourced to a machine?


Look at the positive side, you now have free time to enjoy the
environment that you saved by destroying industry.


As many will find out when they move into their tent city.

A lovely place to live.


--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
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On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 12:27:57 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Which still leaves the question: who is going to buy the good

manufactured by the robots replacing the redundant humans? Who is

going to buy when the workforce is over a million people smaller than

it was in 2007?

The expertise is going into the machines - I forget the

restaurant, but it has recently installed interactive menus at the

tables - "as an option". There already is a company "Barista in a

box" and another company is bringing out an fully automatic hamburger

machine: it prepares the patty, cooks it to perfection, slices the

toppings, toasts the buns, puts it altogether in a box and a bag, and

delivers it too the customer.

So, yeah, increase in productivity account for something. But who

is buying when their McJob got outsourced to a machine?

pyotr filipivich

"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Danaher is so diverse that I can not really tell you who buys the stiff they make. Nucor on the other hand mostly sells steel. Joe Blow does not buy from them. The West Seattle plant has a 30,000 lb minimum. But Nucor does sell to the people that make elevated highways.

The people with McJobs do not buy a lot.

Dan

" on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 13:41:10 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 12:27:57 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Which still leaves the question: who is going to buy the good
manufactured by the robots replacing the redundant humans? Who is
going to buy when the workforce is over a million people smaller than
it was in 2007?

The expertise is going into the machines - I forget the
restaurant, but it has recently installed interactive menus at the
tables - "as an option". There already is a company "Barista in a
box" and another company is bringing out an fully automatic hamburger
machine: it prepares the patty, cooks it to perfection, slices the
toppings, toasts the buns, puts it altogether in a box and a bag, and
delivers it too the customer.

So, yeah, increase in productivity account for something. But who
is buying when their McJob got outsourced to a machine?

Danaher is so diverse that I can not really tell you who buys the stiff they
make. Nucor on the other hand mostly sells steel. Joe Blow does not
buy from them. The West Seattle plant has a 30,000 lb minimum. But
Nucor does sell to the people that make elevated highways.

The people with McJobs do not buy a lot.

Missed it, you did. The McJobs are an example. The big jobs are
going away too - as the technology gets better at doing those jobs.
It used to was, you had to know something about machining to get a job
in a machine shop. Now, all the smarts are in the machine. companies
can and do hire kids off the streets to essentially load and unload
the machines, and push the green button.
Danaher and Nucor may not sell to the McJobber, but they sell to
the guy who does.
And, like I said originally: the increases in productivity do not
help a great deal, when the economy is down, across the board, and the
labor force participation is the lowest in decades, and there are a
over million people fewer counted as working than there were in 2007.
So where is the source of this record high DOW? Or is it 'musical
chairs' with the intent to be the last guy to sell at a profit when
the bubble collapses?
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"Jim Wilkins" on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 12:44:22
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
" on Mon, 9 Dec 2013
15:02:20 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
...So, yeah, increase in productivity account for something. But
who is buying when their McJob got outsourced to a machine?

Look at the positive side, you now have free time to enjoy the
environment that you saved by destroying industry.

That got old five years ago.

I've known for a long time, the advantage of being unemployed is
that you have all this spare time. Just no money to do anything
during that spare time.

Another drawback is: First thing in the morning, you roll out of
bed, and bang! you're not on the job. At least if I was self-employed
I could tell myself to come in later, but ...
And how do you know when you are done for the day?

Am I on my mandatory break, or goofing off? So many questions.


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 22:30:02 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

" on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 13:41:10 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 12:27:57 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Which still leaves the question: who is going to buy the good
manufactured by the robots replacing the redundant humans? Who is
going to buy when the workforce is over a million people smaller than
it was in 2007?

The expertise is going into the machines - I forget the
restaurant, but it has recently installed interactive menus at the
tables - "as an option". There already is a company "Barista in a
box" and another company is bringing out an fully automatic hamburger
machine: it prepares the patty, cooks it to perfection, slices the
toppings, toasts the buns, puts it altogether in a box and a bag, and
delivers it too the customer.

So, yeah, increase in productivity account for something. But who
is buying when their McJob got outsourced to a machine?

Danaher is so diverse that I can not really tell you who buys the stiff they
make. Nucor on the other hand mostly sells steel. Joe Blow does not
buy from them. The West Seattle plant has a 30,000 lb minimum. But
Nucor does sell to the people that make elevated highways.

The people with McJobs do not buy a lot.

Missed it, you did. The McJobs are an example. The big jobs are
going away too - as the technology gets better at doing those jobs.
It used to was, you had to know something about machining to get a job
in a machine shop. Now, all the smarts are in the machine. companies
can and do hire kids off the streets to essentially load and unload
the machines, and push the green button.
Danaher and Nucor may not sell to the McJobber, but they sell to
the guy who does.
And, like I said originally: the increases in productivity do not
help a great deal, when the economy is down, across the board, and the
labor force participation is the lowest in decades, and there are a
over million people fewer counted as working than there were in 2007.
So where is the source of this record high DOW? Or is it 'musical
chairs' with the intent to be the last guy to sell at a profit when
the bubble collapses?

You got it in one.

This is a rather interesting article on the effects of the Industrial
Revolution

http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/I...dofLiving.html

Which effectivly..is the opposite effect of the Data Age
Revolution..or whatever the hell the new age we are entering is
called.

http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...st _will_rise

As the digital revolution kills jobs, social unrest will rise
Gartner offers up 10 strategic predictions for the next 10 years
By Patrick Thibodeau
October 7, 2013 05:26 PM ET


Computerworld - ORLANDO - Gartner is forecasting some major changes in
technology, especially in areas like 3D printing, machine learning and
voice recognition. They are all powerful trends that will reduce the
need for workers, and, as a consequence, bring social unrest, the
analyst firm said.

In the industrial revolution -- and revolutions since -- there was an
invigoration of jobs. For instance, assembly lines for cars led to a
vast infrastructure that could support mass production giving rise to
everything from car dealers to road building and utility expansion
into new suburban areas.

But the digital revolution is not following the same path, said Daryl
Plummer, a Gartner analyst at the research firm's Symposium ITxpo
here. "What we're seeing is a decline in the overall number of people
required to do a job," he said.

Plummer points to a company like Kodak, which once employed 130,000,
versus Instagram's 13. Gartner sees social unrest movements, similar
to Occupy Wall Street, emerging again by 2014.

"Occupy-type Wall Street movements are going to grow," he said during
his presentation of the "Top 10 Strategic Predictions." Plummer looked
at trends in time frames over the next 10 years.

One attendee who agreed with the prediction that digitization and
automation will cost jobs was Tom Seitzberg, director of international
IT operations for Genomic Health in San Francisco.

"Ultimately, every society lives from the backbone from a strong
middle class," said Seitzberg. "If you get just a top level, a small
amount of very rich people and a very large piece of very poor people,
it leads to social unrest."

Seitzberg said it's important to see "how you can also make sure that
the people are actually benefiting from it."

Here are the remaining predictions from Gartner:

By 2016, the 3D printing of tissues and organs, called
bioprinting, will cause a global debate about regulating the
technology or banning it. Bioprinting is just one aspect of 3-D, but
it illustrates, dramatically, the potential of this technology. "If
you are an enterprise, you have got to start preparing your people for
the notion that 3-D printing can go a long way," said Plummer. "If you
start printing products, distribution systems change; the software for
them changes, where the work is done changes."

By 2018, 3D printing will result in the loss of at least $100
billion a year in intellectual property globally. This could be
particularly hard on a small business. "It's now easy to steal an
entire business," said Plummer.

By 2017, more than half of consumer goods manufacturers will get
75% of their consumer innovation and R&D capabilities from
crowd-sourcing. Companies are already soliciting customer feedback in
product design and direction.

By 2017, 80% of consumers will give up private information in
exchange for some type of benefit. "People are getting more used to
the idea," said Plummer.

By 2020, enterprises and government will fail to protect 75% of
sensitive data. "The reality is you don't protect it today," said
Plummer, of the data. The alternative is to give up access to data
that really isn't sensitive, and not try to protect all data access
the board. "We should be focusing on the data that really needs to be
protected," he said.

By 2024, machines will play a bigger role in protecting humans
with "non-overridable 'smart systems,'" says Gartner. Cars are already
getting this technology, such as a braking system that can respond
faster than a human.

By 2020, smart machines will disrupt knowledge workers in both
positive and negative ways. Imagine training your replacement, a
machine, to take over your job. The thing to watch, says Gartner, are
revenues earned by IBM from Watson, the Jeopardy-playing
supercomputer. Gartner expects Watson to account for 1.5% of IBM
revenues by the end of 2015, and 10% by 2018.

By 2017, 10% of computers will be learning. Expect more use of
speech recognition.

By 2020, consumer data collected from wearable devices will drive
5% of sales from the global 1000 firms.

Patrick Thibodeau covers cloud computing and enterprise applications,
outsourcing, government IT policies, data centers and IT workforce
issues for Computerworld. Follow Patrick on Twitter at Twitter @DCgov
or subscribe to Patrick's RSS feed Thibodeau RSS. His e-mail address
is .
- See more at:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic....Bpio5ivs.dpuf
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

---
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On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 22:30:02 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 12:44:22
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
. ..
" on Mon, 9 Dec 2013
15:02:20 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
...So, yeah, increase in productivity account for something. But
who is buying when their McJob got outsourced to a machine?

Look at the positive side, you now have free time to enjoy the
environment that you saved by destroying industry.

That got old five years ago.

I've known for a long time, the advantage of being unemployed is
that you have all this spare time. Just no money to do anything
during that spare time.

Another drawback is: First thing in the morning, you roll out of
bed, and bang! you're not on the job. At least if I was self-employed
I could tell myself to come in later, but ...

This is true.


And how do you know when you are done for the day?

One develops a feel for it. I try to work at least a couple hours a
day. But some days, when the work is there, 14 hour days are OK.


Am I on my mandatory break, or goofing off? So many questions.

Again, one develops a feel for it. Self-employment at my home doesn't
require mandatory breaks every two hours like OSHA does. But I take
time every hour to make coffee or tea or water, or relieve myself of
same. I can't sit in one place too long when doing web work.

On my handyman jobs, I work through lunch. If I stop, I start getting
stiff and it's hell to start back up again, so I just grab a bite and
keep working. Sandwiches can take 1-2 hours to eat. Thank Crom for
meds...

So, why haven't you developed the Killer Ap for your particular niche
in life, hmm? You have the time, in between classes. Go for it, Pete!

--
I hate being bipolar ....... It's awesome!

On Wed, 11 Dec 2013 22:30:02 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

" on Wed, 11 Dec 2013 13:41:10 -0800
(PST) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Wednesday, December 11, 2013 12:27:57 PM UTC-5, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Which still leaves the question: who is going to buy the good
manufactured by the robots replacing the redundant humans? Who is
going to buy when the workforce is over a million people smaller than
it was in 2007?

The expertise is going into the machines - I forget the
restaurant, but it has recently installed interactive menus at the
tables - "as an option". There already is a company "Barista in a
box" and another company is bringing out an fully automatic hamburger
machine: it prepares the patty, cooks it to perfection, slices the
toppings, toasts the buns, puts it altogether in a box and a bag, and
delivers it too the customer.

So, yeah, increase in productivity account for something. But who
is buying when their McJob got outsourced to a machine?

Danaher is so diverse that I can not really tell you who buys the stiff they
make. Nucor on the other hand mostly sells steel. Joe Blow does not
buy from them. The West Seattle plant has a 30,000 lb minimum. But
Nucor does sell to the people that make elevated highways.

The people with McJobs do not buy a lot.

Missed it, you did. The McJobs are an example. The big jobs are
going away too - as the technology gets better at doing those jobs.
It used to was, you had to know something about machining to get a job
in a machine shop. Now, all the smarts are in the machine. companies
can and do hire kids off the streets to essentially load and unload
the machines, and push the green button.
Danaher and Nucor may not sell to the McJobber, but they sell to
the guy who does.
And, like I said originally: the increases in productivity do not
help a great deal, when the economy is down, across the board, and the
labor force participation is the lowest in decades, and there are a
over million people fewer counted as working than there were in 2007.
So where is the source of this record high DOW? Or is it 'musical
chairs' with the intent to be the last guy to sell at a profit when
the bubble collapses?

It's in selling bad paper to the nouveau riche day traders who don't
know any better, and mortgage-buying companies/corporations who don't
care if they lose their employees' entire life savings. Crom knows
why the trust is so bloody high, especially after all the myriad
****storms which have transpired in the past few decades.

--
I hate being bipolar ....... It's awesome!

On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 04:56:32 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A hypocrite
TeaBillie on welfare!" wrote:

No republican will congratulate his leadership.

The stock market is just a form a legalized gambling. Enough people
have given up on making money the old fashioned way, working, and are
just throwing their money into the pit. Stocks used to be about
investing, not anymore. Wall street should be moved to The Strip and
the Nevada gaming commision put in charge of it.

Buy at 9AM sell at noon, speculate, guess, go on a hunch or a rumor,
it's just a game now.

Remove 333 to reply.
Randy

On Friday, December 13, 2013 12:47:59 PM UTC-5, Randy333 wrote:

The stock market is just a form a legalized gambling. Enough people
have given up on making money the old fashioned way, working, and are
just throwing their money into the pit. Stocks used to be about
investing, not anymore. Wall street should be moved to The Strip and
the Nevada gaming commision put in charge of it.


Buy at 9AM sell at noon, speculate, guess, go on a hunch or a rumor,
it's just a game now.

Randy

It is gambling for some people, but other people use it to invest. I still have a bunch of stocks that I bought in the 1960's.

Dan

On 2013-12-13, wrote:
On Friday, December 13, 2013 12:47:59 PM UTC-5, Randy333 wrote:

The stock market is just a form a legalized gambling. Enough people
have given up on making money the old fashioned way, working, and are
just throwing their money into the pit.

It is gambling for some people, but other people use it to invest.
I still have a bunch of stocks that I bought in the 1960's.

Stocks are claims of fractional ownership of businesses. If you hold
enough decent stocks for enough time, the earnings of those businesses
will benefit you, the part owner.

The fools can use the "market" for gambling and lose money on
commissions.

i

On Fri, 13 Dec 2013 12:47:59 -0500, Randy333
wrote:

On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 04:56:32 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A hypocrite
TeaBillie on welfare!" wrote:

No republican will congratulate his leadership.

The stock market is just a form a legalized gambling. Enough people
have given up on making money the old fashioned way, working, and are
just throwing their money into the pit. Stocks used to be about
investing, not anymore. Wall street should be moved to The Strip and
the Nevada gaming commision put in charge of it.

Buy at 9AM sell at noon, speculate, guess, go on a hunch or a rumor,
it's just a game now.

Remove 333 to reply.
Randy


Pretty close to absolute truth!


--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Larry Jaques on Thu, 12 Dec 2013
05:43:45 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

So, why haven't you developed the Killer Ap for your particular niche
in life, hmm? You have the time, in between classes. Go for it, Pete!

This quarter, there was no such thing as "time between classes". I
logged 415 hours between class and lab/home, with a 110 of those hours
being in the last two weeks. No, I am not bragging, I'm whining. I
have not had the time to "learn" anything, just attempt to get
something finished by the due date. "Design by Advanced Design Change
Notice." And yes, I did submit something with the note "Final weights
will be furnished in the next revision." If he could do it on a job,
I can do it too.
And of course, now that I have no more deadlines - things are
popping up going "Oh, yeah, that's how that would work."

All that said - I am not an entrepreneur. Some people are good at
meeting people, drumming up sales leads, getting the orders materials
and other supplies, and then getting paid. I am not. I just want to
run the machine, make my little parts/ drawings, and let the company
handle all that other stuff. I know they have people who like to do
that sort of stuff on the payroll, which is why I 'hired' the company
to collect my wages from the customer for me.

OTOH, if I could get a small 3 in one mill - I'm working to
reverse engineer the 3 barrel 25 ACP pistol you can find on the net.
(I've got the cylinders and the barrels done.)

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Sun, 15 Dec 2013 22:47:15 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Thu, 12 Dec 2013
05:43:45 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

So, why haven't you developed the Killer Ap for your particular niche
in life, hmm? You have the time, in between classes. Go for it, Pete!

This quarter, there was no such thing as "time between classes". I
logged 415 hours between class and lab/home, with a 110 of those hours
being in the last two weeks. No, I am not bragging, I'm whining. I
have not had the time to "learn" anything, just attempt to get
something finished by the due date. "Design by Advanced Design Change
Notice." And yes, I did submit something with the note "Final weights
will be furnished in the next revision." If he could do it on a job,
I can do it too.
And of course, now that I have no more deadlines - things are
popping up going "Oh, yeah, that's how that would work."

That sucks. Condolences.


All that said - I am not an entrepreneur. Some people are good at
meeting people, drumming up sales leads, getting the orders materials
and other supplies, and then getting paid. I am not. I just want to
run the machine, make my little parts/ drawings, and let the company
handle all that other stuff. I know they have people who like to do
that sort of stuff on the payroll, which is why I 'hired' the company
to collect my wages from the customer for me.

I don't have a lot of people skills, either. That's why I've lived
hand to mouth with two concurrent businesses. I prefer the same
thing, "Just leave me alone with machines and I'm happy."


OTOH, if I could get a small 3 in one mill - I'm working to
reverse engineer the 3 barrel 25 ACP pistol you can find on the net.
(I've got the cylinders and the barrels done.)

I've been looking for mini-mill and mini-lathe for decades now. They
just don't show up on eBay, freecycle (I wish), or Craigslist.

--
I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.
--Duke Ellington

On 12/8/2013 10:11 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 8 Dec 2013 04:56:32 -0800 (PST), "Daring Dufas: A hypocrite
TeaBillie on welfare!" wrote:

No republican will congratulate his leadership.

Oh..you mean the stock market bubble that is going to explode before
long?

You don't know anything about the stock market, gummer, except that
you're not in it.


--

People who have been in the military
did not do military "duty" or
"service"; they just had a military
job for a while. Calling it "duty"
suggests it is owed. It is not.

Larry Jaques on Mon, 16 Dec 2013
07:33:21 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


OTOH, if I could get a small 3 in one mill - I'm working to
reverse engineer the 3 barrel 25 ACP pistol you can find on the net.
(I've got the cylinders and the barrels done.)

I've been looking for mini-mill and mini-lathe for decades now. They
just don't show up on eBay, freecycle (I wish), or Craigslist.

I guess we'll have to make some. B-)

I've seen the series of books which start you out with casting
metal, and end up with functional mills or lathes. "Me Wants".

But I'd just rather win the lottery and go say "that one, send the
it and the bill to this address..."
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:35:51 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Mon, 16 Dec 2013
07:33:21 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


OTOH, if I could get a small 3 in one mill - I'm working to
reverse engineer the 3 barrel 25 ACP pistol you can find on the net.
(I've got the cylinders and the barrels done.)

I've been looking for mini-mill and mini-lathe for decades now. They
just don't show up on eBay, freecycle (I wish), or Craigslist.

I guess we'll have to make some. B-)

Can I borrow your mini-mill and mini-lathe to make mine? Thanks.


I've seen the series of books which start you out with casting
metal, and end up with functional mills or lathes. "Me Wants".

Yes, the Gingery stuff. DIY heaven.


But I'd just rather win the lottery and go say "that one, send the
it and the bill to this address..."

I just checked. My MegaBucks and Win for Life sucked wind, not
winning anything Saturday night. Alas... BUT, the Megabucks tickie
was good for 3 draws, so I might win tonight or Weds. Wish me luck.

Tell you what, if I win bigger than $100k, I'll buy you a pair of
minis. Will you reciprocate? Maybe our paired luck is better, and
Crom knows we can't buy lottery tickets every day.

--
I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.
--Duke Ellington

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:35:51 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Mon, 16 Dec 2013
07:33:21 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


OTOH, if I could get a small 3 in one mill - I'm working to
reverse engineer the 3 barrel 25 ACP pistol you can find on the
net.
(I've got the cylinders and the barrels done.)

I've been looking for mini-mill and mini-lathe for decades now.
They
just don't show up on eBay, freecycle (I wish), or Craigslist.

I guess we'll have to make some. B-)

Can I borrow your mini-mill and mini-lathe to make mine? Thanks.


I've seen the series of books which start you out with casting
metal, and end up with functional mills or lathes. "Me Wants".

Yes, the Gingery stuff. DIY heaven.


But I'd just rather win the lottery and go say "that one, send the
it and the bill to this address..."

I just checked. My MegaBucks and Win for Life sucked wind, not
winning anything Saturday night. Alas... BUT, the Megabucks tickie
was good for 3 draws, so I might win tonight or Weds. Wish me luck.

Tell you what, if I win bigger than $100k, I'll buy you a pair of
minis. Will you reciprocate? Maybe our paired luck is better, and
Crom knows we can't buy lottery tickets every day.

Do you have room for a good lathe?
http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/4235751398.html

Larry Jaques on Mon, 16 Dec 2013
20:01:48 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:35:51 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Mon, 16 Dec 2013
07:33:21 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


OTOH, if I could get a small 3 in one mill - I'm working to
reverse engineer the 3 barrel 25 ACP pistol you can find on the net.
(I've got the cylinders and the barrels done.)

I've been looking for mini-mill and mini-lathe for decades now. They
just don't show up on eBay, freecycle (I wish), or Craigslist.

I guess we'll have to make some. B-)

Can I borrow your mini-mill and mini-lathe to make mine? Thanks.


I've seen the series of books which start you out with casting
metal, and end up with functional mills or lathes. "Me Wants".

Yes, the Gingery stuff. DIY heaven.


But I'd just rather win the lottery and go say "that one, send the
it and the bill to this address..."

I just checked. My MegaBucks and Win for Life sucked wind, not
winning anything Saturday night. Alas... BUT, the Megabucks tickie
was good for 3 draws, so I might win tonight or Weds. Wish me luck.

Tell you what, if I win bigger than $100k, I'll buy you a pair of
minis. Will you reciprocate? Maybe our paired luck is better, and
Crom knows we can't buy lottery tickets every day.

If I win, a mini mill is not all that I'd get.

Fnord, if I win, I'm going to go to dealers and such and say "that
one. Add the delivery and setup charges to the bill and send both to
this address ..."


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:32:16 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:35:51 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Mon, 16 Dec 2013
07:33:21 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


OTOH, if I could get a small 3 in one mill - I'm working to
reverse engineer the 3 barrel 25 ACP pistol you can find on the
net.
(I've got the cylinders and the barrels done.)

I've been looking for mini-mill and mini-lathe for decades now.
They
just don't show up on eBay, freecycle (I wish), or Craigslist.

I guess we'll have to make some. B-)

Can I borrow your mini-mill and mini-lathe to make mine? Thanks.


I've seen the series of books which start you out with casting
metal, and end up with functional mills or lathes. "Me Wants".

Yes, the Gingery stuff. DIY heaven.


But I'd just rather win the lottery and go say "that one, send the
it and the bill to this address..."

I just checked. My MegaBucks and Win for Life sucked wind, not
winning anything Saturday night. Alas... BUT, the Megabucks tickie
was good for 3 draws, so I might win tonight or Weds. Wish me luck.

Tell you what, if I win bigger than $100k, I'll buy you a pair of
minis. Will you reciprocate? Maybe our paired luck is better, and
Crom knows we can't buy lottery tickets every day.

Do you have room for a good lathe?
http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/4235751398.html

I'm short the space, short the grand for the lathe, and short the two
grand to ship it all the way across the USA.

But thanks for trying.

I'll have to bring something home from Gunner's one of these years.
Something small and light enough to fit in my Tundra.

--
I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.
--Duke Ellington

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:32:16 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:35:51 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Mon, 16 Dec
2013
07:33:21 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


OTOH, if I could get a small 3 in one mill - I'm working to
reverse engineer the 3 barrel 25 ACP pistol you can find on the
net.
(I've got the cylinders and the barrels done.)

I've been looking for mini-mill and mini-lathe for decades now.
They
just don't show up on eBay, freecycle (I wish), or Craigslist.

I guess we'll have to make some. B-)

Can I borrow your mini-mill and mini-lathe to make mine? Thanks.


I've seen the series of books which start you out with casting
metal, and end up with functional mills or lathes. "Me Wants".

Yes, the Gingery stuff. DIY heaven.


But I'd just rather win the lottery and go say "that one, send
the
it and the bill to this address..."

I just checked. My MegaBucks and Win for Life sucked wind, not
winning anything Saturday night. Alas... BUT, the Megabucks
tickie
was good for 3 draws, so I might win tonight or Weds. Wish me
luck.

Tell you what, if I win bigger than $100k, I'll buy you a pair of
minis. Will you reciprocate? Maybe our paired luck is better,
and
Crom knows we can't buy lottery tickets every day.

Do you have room for a good lathe?
http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/4235751398.html

I'm short the space, short the grand for the lathe, and short the
two
grand to ship it all the way across the USA.

But thanks for trying.

I'll have to bring something home from Gunner's one of these years.
Something small and light enough to fit in my Tundra.

That will make it easier to get rid of when you find that it's too
small. The one I showed you is an example of an adequate size for a
home hobby/repair shop, but not so big or heavy that it needs a level
concrete floor.
jsw

On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:15:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 07:32:16 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 16 Dec 2013 18:35:51 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Mon, 16 Dec
2013
07:33:21 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


OTOH, if I could get a small 3 in one mill - I'm working to
reverse engineer the 3 barrel 25 ACP pistol you can find on the
net.
(I've got the cylinders and the barrels done.)

I've been looking for mini-mill and mini-lathe for decades now.
They
just don't show up on eBay, freecycle (I wish), or Craigslist.

I guess we'll have to make some. B-)

Can I borrow your mini-mill and mini-lathe to make mine? Thanks.


I've seen the series of books which start you out with casting
metal, and end up with functional mills or lathes. "Me Wants".

Yes, the Gingery stuff. DIY heaven.


But I'd just rather win the lottery and go say "that one, send
the
it and the bill to this address..."

I just checked. My MegaBucks and Win for Life sucked wind, not
winning anything Saturday night. Alas... BUT, the Megabucks
tickie
was good for 3 draws, so I might win tonight or Weds. Wish me
luck.

Tell you what, if I win bigger than $100k, I'll buy you a pair of
minis. Will you reciprocate? Maybe our paired luck is better,
and
Crom knows we can't buy lottery tickets every day.

Do you have room for a good lathe?
http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/4235751398.html

I'm short the space, short the grand for the lathe, and short the
two
grand to ship it all the way across the USA.

But thanks for trying.

I'll have to bring something home from Gunner's one of these years.
Something small and light enough to fit in my Tundra.

That will make it easier to get rid of when you find that it's too
small. The one I showed you is an example of an adequate size for a
home hobby/repair shop, but not so big or heavy that it needs a level
concrete floor.

Are you saying that the revered HF mini is inadequate? -= Heavens! =-

What does the SB heavy 10 weigh?

--
I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.
--Duke Ellington

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:15:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

I'll have to bring something home from Gunner's one of these
years.
Something small and light enough to fit in my Tundra.

That will make it easier to get rid of when you find that it's too
small. The one I showed you is an example of an adequate size for a
home hobby/repair shop, but not so big or heavy that it needs a
level
concrete floor.

Are you saying that the revered HF mini is inadequate? -= Heavens!
=-

What does the SB heavy 10 weigh?

It varies with the cabinet, bed length, etc. Googling suggests they
weigh somewhat less than half a ton.

The Heavy 10 gives you 5C collets and odd thread pitches like 27 TPI.
There are other good choices in that size range that may sell for
less.
jsw

On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 09:05:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 17 Dec 2013 23:15:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

I'll have to bring something home from Gunner's one of these
years.
Something small and light enough to fit in my Tundra.

That will make it easier to get rid of when you find that it's too
small. The one I showed you is an example of an adequate size for a
home hobby/repair shop, but not so big or heavy that it needs a
level
concrete floor.

Are you saying that the revered HF mini is inadequate? -= Heavens!
=-

What does the SB heavy 10 weigh?

It varies with the cabinet, bed length, etc. Googling suggests they
weigh somewhat less than half a ton.

Oh, that's cool. They look more like 1.5T...without tooling. Loading
might be a nightmare, but I could use my engine hoist to unload.


The Heavy 10 gives you 5C collets and odd thread pitches like 27 TPI.

I can see the potential benefit of odd thread pitches, but what is the
benefit of a 5C over other collet tapers?


There are other good choices in that size range that may sell for
less.

Moot point. I have a friend with a mill and lathe who lives only half
an hour away. Combined with my zero space availability and low need, I
can't justify any of my wee budget for one. But I'd jump on a pair of
MINIs if they ever showed up @ $100 a pop, despite their inadequacies.
I have an 8' assembly table which really doesn't need to be more than
half that size and would give me the space along one wall for them.
They could probably fill my needs (the last was a handheld shower
bracket, current is adjustable limiter switch brackets.) pretty well.

--
I merely took the energy it takes to pout and wrote some blues.
--Duke Ellington