Bob La Londe wrote:

I used to shoot an old sidelock .45 rifle. Round balls would punch
overlapping holes at 50 yards, and 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 with the
classic cone in your hand (about 90 grains) load of 3F (off a rest). Hand
cast (wood mold) patched conicals would shoot 2.5" groups on a good
day at 100 yards with 120 grains of 2F. I bought the round balls, but
made my
own conicals... Perhaps maxiballs might have shot better, but I liked the
patched load as the patch makes an almost perfect engagement with the
rifling. I really liked that rifle. Some scum sucking pig swiped it
out of my garage one day when I stepped in the house for a soda. I like
my
place in the country now better. I can't shoot in my backyard, but nobody
is getting close to my garage or my shop without coming down a long
driveway, or jumping the canal and the fence in the back.



Heh , I have a 25 yard "range" set up along side/behind my shop . Right
next to the straw bales I use for archery practice . And you can get close
to my shop and "house" thru the woods , but Goldie wouldn't like that . And
she bites ...after alerting me by barking her head off .
My rifle is a .50 Plains rifle , half-stock and a single retainer key .
Shoots pretty good , I can still get 1" groups at 25 yds offhand . Eyes
ain't what they useta be , I'd like to put a scope on it . Got one that will
work , just need bases and rings . And time ...
--
Snag



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On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 06:39:22 -0600, "Snag" wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2013 07:34:49 -0600, "Snag" wrote:

Day before yesterday I melted down about 50-60 lbs of wheel weights
, to add to my stockpile of bullet material . The only BP shooting
component I can't produce at home now is the percussion caps . I
guess I should stock up more of those , I've only got a few hundred
. Everybody else up here is using inlines , with 209 primers ,
pellet powder , and sabots . Mine's a sidelock with patched hand
cast balls . The wheel weights will be cast into 150 gr .308/.311's
for sub loads .

Aren't the wheel weights a bit hard for a muzzle loader? Back in the
day I was into muzzle loaders for some years and I always found that
as pure lead as I could get worked best. For breach loaders a harder
allow works well though.

We used to hand load .45 acp target loads at a velocity that was
possibly slower then a muzzle loader and used hard bullets. I always
wondered what the cap and ball revolvers shoot best.


I mentioned elsewhere in this thread that balls and slugs for the
muzzleloaders are cast from lead reclaimed from shower pans , lead piping ,
and other pure or nearly pure lead . My C&B's like pure lead , anything else
is too hard to ram , and doesn't engrave the rifling as well . I have a
Colt's patent mold that will cast a slug that will size to fit a .45 ACP or
long Colt , haven't tried it yet - but the ball from that mold fits my .44
C&B .

..45acp is .452 and LC tends to be .454

Just a heads up..and some..some Long Colts tend to be .452..by intent
or accident.

Gunner

--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 06:39:22 -0600, "Snag" wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Wed, 4 Dec 2013 07:34:49 -0600, "Snag" wrote:

Day before yesterday I melted down about 50-60 lbs of wheel weights
, to add to my stockpile of bullet material . The only BP shooting
component I can't produce at home now is the percussion caps . I
guess I should stock up more of those , I've only got a few hundred
. Everybody else up here is using inlines , with 209 primers ,
pellet powder , and sabots . Mine's a sidelock with patched hand
cast balls . The wheel weights will be cast into 150 gr .308/.311's
for sub loads .

Aren't the wheel weights a bit hard for a muzzle loader? Back in the
day I was into muzzle loaders for some years and I always found that
as pure lead as I could get worked best. For breach loaders a harder
allow works well though.

We used to hand load .45 acp target loads at a velocity that was
possibly slower then a muzzle loader and used hard bullets. I always
wondered what the cap and ball revolvers shoot best.


I mentioned elsewhere in this thread that balls and slugs for the
muzzleloaders are cast from lead reclaimed from shower pans , lead piping ,
and other pure or nearly pure lead . My C&B's like pure lead , anything else
is too hard to ram , and doesn't engrave the rifling as well . I have a
Colt's patent mold that will cast a slug that will size to fit a .45 ACP or
long Colt , haven't tried it yet - but the ball from that mold fits my .44
C&B .

Ive a Ruger New Army that likes round balls over slugs every time. and
it shoots better than most cartridge arms if loaded properly (.457
bore) with 30grs of 3F
Several of the others (single shots)..including the Tingle, will do
nearly as well.

Gunner

--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 12:01:42 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

"Snag" wrote in message
...
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 17:45:39 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 02:25:02 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 02 Dec 2013 21:18:38 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 20:56:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 2 Dec 2013 14:33:02 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


My P-14 Enfield is loaded to a bit over 50,000 psi, sports a 28"
bull
barrel and is loaded with Basic Brass and a very slow powder
using magnum primers. It weights about 14 lbs and it hurts me
to shoot it if wearing a t-shirt. Despite a nice Morgan recoil
pad .....

I rather suspect that body armor would be launched out the
other side of the wearers body if hit properly..

Ive chronoed it..and no one ever believes me when I tell em how
fast they are moving until they fire a round themselves at
distance.

Gunner

Kills at one end and maims at the other, eh?

Yeah, you guys can have your mean old bolt guns. I'll pick one up
from a bad guy I take down with the little SKS. Just in case I
need a real long reach. But nowadays, I can't see that far,
anyway, even with my bifocals. deep sigh

I viewed one of YouTube's .458 Socom vids and it showed one
penetrating a kevlar helmet and bouncing off the other side. I
don't think I'd want to take a hit from one, even with the helmet
on, eh?

It works well enough against LEO body armor and military armor
without the trauma plate. Even with the trauma plate its going to
sting more than a smidgeon.

Indeed.


Body armor may prevent the penetration of a projectile..but its
flexible enough that the recpient will think he was hit by a sledge
hammer. So it doesnt kill him..its damned sure gonna bust some ribs
and put him in a world of hurt for a bit. And if he gets up
again..one simply shoots him in the head where he isnt protected by
the helmet..or below the armor..which is in the groin (think sledge
hammer again) or in the armpit through the arm..which is generally
a fatal wound..as the round then penetrates the lungs, heart and
other lung..causing him to bleed out in a very short period of
time...or under the helmet in the face, neck etc. Again thats not a
would you are going to shake off.

The way it explodes, or I should say "vaporizes", watermelons, I'd
guess it would sever a limb pretty easily. It's a mean round.


Thats one of the advantages OF a bolt action with a decent scope and
accurate ammo. You can shoot him someplace there isnt any armor.

Yeah, accuracy has its moments, but within 200yds, almost any scoped
rifle will handle that.

What did you think of the West article Backdoor Gun Control?
Banning lead, calling full copper bullets "cop killers", etc. are all
leading to no bullets...as a design.

I suspect that that lunacy will go away in late 2014 with the
elections

Shrug

Ive been stocking up on wheelweights for 2 yrs now.


Gunner


Day before yesterday I melted down about 50-60 lbs of wheel weights , to
add to my stockpile of bullet material . The only BP shooting component I
can't produce at home now is the percussion caps . I guess I should stock
up more of those , I've only got a few hundred . Everybody else up here is
using inlines , with 209 primers , pellet powder , and sabots . Mine's a
sidelock with patched hand cast balls . The wheel weights will be cast
into 150 gr .308/.311's for sub loads .
--
Snag

I used to shoot an old sidelock .45 rifle. Round balls would punch
overlapping holes at 50 yards, and 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 with the classic
cone in your hand (about 90 grains) load of 3F (off a rest). Hand cast
(wood mold) patched conicals would shoot 2.5" groups on a good day at 100
yards with 120 grains of 2F. I bought the round balls, but made my own
conicals... Perhaps maxiballs might have shot better, but I liked the
patched load as the patch makes an almost perfect engagement with the
rifling. I really liked that rifle. Some scum sucking pig swiped it out of
my garage one day when I stepped in the house for a soda. I like my place
in the country now better. I can't shoot in my backyard, but nobody is
getting close to my garage or my shop without coming down a long driveway,
or jumping the canal and the fence in the back.

Check muzzle loader prices at the next gun show. Some of them can be
had really cheap. IVe got some old CVAs that I didnt pay $75 for and
a Lyman that I paid $300+ for

Im not an "in-line" kinda guy...and would love to have a flintlock.
One of these days Ill snag one.

Gunner

--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 14:40:38 -0600, "Snag" wrote:

Bob La Londe wrote:

I used to shoot an old sidelock .45 rifle. Round balls would punch
overlapping holes at 50 yards, and 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 with the
classic cone in your hand (about 90 grains) load of 3F (off a rest). Hand
cast (wood mold) patched conicals would shoot 2.5" groups on a good
day at 100 yards with 120 grains of 2F. I bought the round balls, but
made my
own conicals... Perhaps maxiballs might have shot better, but I liked the
patched load as the patch makes an almost perfect engagement with the
rifling. I really liked that rifle. Some scum sucking pig swiped it
out of my garage one day when I stepped in the house for a soda. I like
my
place in the country now better. I can't shoot in my backyard, but nobody
is getting close to my garage or my shop without coming down a long
driveway, or jumping the canal and the fence in the back.



Heh , I have a 25 yard "range" set up along side/behind my shop . Right
next to the straw bales I use for archery practice . And you can get close
to my shop and "house" thru the woods , but Goldie wouldn't like that . And
she bites ...after alerting me by barking her head off .
My rifle is a .50 Plains rifle , half-stock and a single retainer key .
Shoots pretty good , I can still get 1" groups at 25 yds offhand . Eyes
ain't what they useta be , I'd like to put a scope on it . Got one that will
work , just need bases and rings . And time ...

Bases are easy to machine for Weaver rings, or you can buy a set for
$10 on ebay.

Gunner

--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:18:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 09:18:00 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 06:35:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
What did you think of the West article Backdoor Gun Control?
Banning lead, calling full copper bullets "cop killers", etc. are all
leading to no bullets...as a design.

I suspect that that lunacy will go away in late 2014 with the
elections
Shrug

Given the idiocy of the current non-Liberals, I'm not so sure the
elections will turn out as well as hoped. Cross your appendages.

Keep in mind..that more people didnt vote in the last election..then

Can you blame them? If the REPs had put up a real candidate, there
might have been a race.

There really wasnt that big a difference between R and Ds...it was
settled by something like 1/8 of a million votes.


did vote. And any election from today forwards..is going to be
watched like a hawk..given the sheer number of election fraud that the
Left pulled off. They wont be doing that again anytime soon.

Let's hope not.


Ive been stocking up on wheelweights for 2 yrs now.

They're hard to come by. Most of the tire store guys have reloading
friends and they're gone by the time someone else asks for lead. ONe
store said they can't give it away, either, due to lead regulations.
What's the gummint going to do with it, I wonder?

Its been banned here in California for over a year..but few are paying
much attention to it. If I need another couple thousand pounds..Ill
simply hit a couple wrecking yards with a wheelbarrow and snag em.
They wont cost much..the wrecking yards would be glad to get rid of
them.

Already long gone. There are lotsa reloaders up this way. Neither of
my loads lends itself to being reloaded. 9mm and 7.62x39 are either
cheap or made with steel cartridges, or both. Rearming after the
apocalypse will be easy. Knock out the spray-n'-prayer who just tried
(unsuccessfully) to kill you, check their wallet (SnP-ers aren't too
smart), go to their address, and pick up their large stock of ammo.


Btw..carbide dies work just fine on 9mm steel cases if you ever find a
bunch of them.

Gunner

--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 14:50:03 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Yeah, and he didn't even give them change. How the hell did he get
reelected? (because 52% of the people weren't paying the slightest bit
of attention to outcomes, just rhetoric.)

actually..the last time..it was voter fraud beyond any shadow of a
doubt. The first time..far far more voters turned up than the 2012
election.


--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 05:40:32 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 12:01:42 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:
I used to shoot an old sidelock .45 rifle. Round balls would punch
overlapping holes at 50 yards, and 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 with the classic
cone in your hand (about 90 grains) load of 3F (off a rest). Hand cast
(wood mold) patched conicals would shoot 2.5" groups on a good day at 100
yards with 120 grains of 2F. I bought the round balls, but made my own
conicals... Perhaps maxiballs might have shot better, but I liked the
patched load as the patch makes an almost perfect engagement with the
rifling. I really liked that rifle. Some scum sucking pig swiped it out of
my garage one day when I stepped in the house for a soda. I like my place
in the country now better. I can't shoot in my backyard, but nobody is
getting close to my garage or my shop without coming down a long driveway,
or jumping the canal and the fence in the back.

Check muzzle loader prices at the next gun show. Some of them can be
had really cheap. IVe got some old CVAs that I didnt pay $75 for and
a Lyman that I paid $300+ for

Im not an "in-line" kinda guy...and would love to have a flintlock.
One of these days Ill snag one.

Why in the Seven Hells would you want one of those new-fangled jobs?
Stick with matchlocks. They're a proven technology.

--
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 05:44:08 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:18:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 09:18:00 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 06:35:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
What did you think of the West article Backdoor Gun Control?
Banning lead, calling full copper bullets "cop killers", etc. are all
leading to no bullets...as a design.

I suspect that that lunacy will go away in late 2014 with the
elections
Shrug

Given the idiocy of the current non-Liberals, I'm not so sure the
elections will turn out as well as hoped. Cross your appendages.

Keep in mind..that more people didnt vote in the last election..then

Can you blame them? If the REPs had put up a real candidate, there
might have been a race.

There really wasnt that big a difference between R and Ds...it was
settled by something like 1/8 of a million votes.


did vote. And any election from today forwards..is going to be
watched like a hawk..given the sheer number of election fraud that the
Left pulled off. They wont be doing that again anytime soon.

Let's hope not.


Ive been stocking up on wheelweights for 2 yrs now.

They're hard to come by. Most of the tire store guys have reloading
friends and they're gone by the time someone else asks for lead. ONe
store said they can't give it away, either, due to lead regulations.
What's the gummint going to do with it, I wonder?

Its been banned here in California for over a year..but few are paying
much attention to it. If I need another couple thousand pounds..Ill
simply hit a couple wrecking yards with a wheelbarrow and snag em.
They wont cost much..the wrecking yards would be glad to get rid of
them.

Already long gone. There are lotsa reloaders up this way. Neither of
my loads lends itself to being reloaded. 9mm and 7.62x39 are either
cheap or made with steel cartridges, or both. Rearming after the
apocalypse will be easy. Knock out the spray-n'-prayer who just tried
(unsuccessfully) to kill you, check their wallet (SnP-ers aren't too
smart), go to their address, and pick up their large stock of ammo.


Btw..carbide dies work just fine on 9mm steel cases if you ever find a
bunch of them.

Nah, the 9s are brass, but steel cases are found on the 7.62s.

--
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.

Gunner Asch on Sat, 07 Dec 2013 05:44:08 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:18:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 09:18:00 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 06:35:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
What did you think of the West article Backdoor Gun Control?
Banning lead, calling full copper bullets "cop killers", etc. are all
leading to no bullets...as a design.

I suspect that that lunacy will go away in late 2014 with the
elections
Shrug

Given the idiocy of the current non-Liberals, I'm not so sure the
elections will turn out as well as hoped. Cross your appendages.

Keep in mind..that more people didnt vote in the last election..then

Can you blame them? If the REPs had put up a real candidate, there
might have been a race.

There really wasnt that big a difference between R and Ds...it was
settled by something like 1/8 of a million votes.

The IRS and the DOJ did their jobs: get the Boss re-elected. It
is, the Chicago way.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 09:39:01 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 05:40:32 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 5 Dec 2013 12:01:42 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:
I used to shoot an old sidelock .45 rifle. Round balls would punch
overlapping holes at 50 yards, and 1" to 1.5" groups at 100 with the classic
cone in your hand (about 90 grains) load of 3F (off a rest). Hand cast
(wood mold) patched conicals would shoot 2.5" groups on a good day at 100
yards with 120 grains of 2F. I bought the round balls, but made my own
conicals... Perhaps maxiballs might have shot better, but I liked the
patched load as the patch makes an almost perfect engagement with the
rifling. I really liked that rifle. Some scum sucking pig swiped it out of
my garage one day when I stepped in the house for a soda. I like my place
in the country now better. I can't shoot in my backyard, but nobody is
getting close to my garage or my shop without coming down a long driveway,
or jumping the canal and the fence in the back.

Check muzzle loader prices at the next gun show. Some of them can be
had really cheap. IVe got some old CVAs that I didnt pay $75 for and
a Lyman that I paid $300+ for

Im not an "in-line" kinda guy...and would love to have a flintlock.
One of these days Ill snag one.

Why in the Seven Hells would you want one of those new-fangled jobs?
Stick with matchlocks. They're a proven technology.

Im trying to quit smoking.

there are a number of kit wheel locks out there..but ****me they are
expensive. I could..could build one from scratch..Crom knows Ive got
the tools..and old alarm clocks are easy to come by....


--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:00:43 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 05:44:08 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 17:18:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 09:18:00 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 06:35:09 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:
What did you think of the West article Backdoor Gun Control?
Banning lead, calling full copper bullets "cop killers", etc. are all
leading to no bullets...as a design.

I suspect that that lunacy will go away in late 2014 with the
elections
Shrug

Given the idiocy of the current non-Liberals, I'm not so sure the
elections will turn out as well as hoped. Cross your appendages.

Keep in mind..that more people didnt vote in the last election..then

Can you blame them? If the REPs had put up a real candidate, there
might have been a race.

There really wasnt that big a difference between R and Ds...it was
settled by something like 1/8 of a million votes.


did vote. And any election from today forwards..is going to be
watched like a hawk..given the sheer number of election fraud that the
Left pulled off. They wont be doing that again anytime soon.

Let's hope not.


Ive been stocking up on wheelweights for 2 yrs now.

They're hard to come by. Most of the tire store guys have reloading
friends and they're gone by the time someone else asks for lead. ONe
store said they can't give it away, either, due to lead regulations.
What's the gummint going to do with it, I wonder?

Its been banned here in California for over a year..but few are paying
much attention to it. If I need another couple thousand pounds..Ill
simply hit a couple wrecking yards with a wheelbarrow and snag em.
They wont cost much..the wrecking yards would be glad to get rid of
them.

Already long gone. There are lotsa reloaders up this way. Neither of
my loads lends itself to being reloaded. 9mm and 7.62x39 are either
cheap or made with steel cartridges, or both. Rearming after the
apocalypse will be easy. Knock out the spray-n'-prayer who just tried
(unsuccessfully) to kill you, check their wallet (SnP-ers aren't too
smart), go to their address, and pick up their large stock of ammo.


Btw..carbide dies work just fine on 9mm steel cases if you ever find a
bunch of them.

Nah, the 9s are brass, but steel cases are found on the 7.62s.


The x 39s...tend to be Berdan primed....which adds a whole new
dimension to reloading....particularly when they are crimped in...


--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 13:18:52 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:00:43 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 05:44:08 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Btw..carbide dies work just fine on 9mm steel cases if you ever find a
bunch of them.

Nah, the 9s are brass, but steel cases are found on the 7.62s.


And 9s are pretty much too cheap to reload.


The x 39s...tend to be Berdan primed....which adds a whole new
dimension to reloading....particularly when they are crimped in...

Sounds like "loads" of fun. /bad pun

--
Make awkward sexual advances, not war.

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 17:15:56 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 13:18:52 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 10:00:43 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 05:44:08 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

Btw..carbide dies work just fine on 9mm steel cases if you ever find a
bunch of them.

Nah, the 9s are brass, but steel cases are found on the 7.62s.


And 9s are pretty much too cheap to reload.

Blink blink...you have been in which country for the past 2 yrs?


The x 39s...tend to be Berdan primed....which adds a whole new
dimension to reloading....particularly when they are crimped in...

Sounds like "loads" of fun. /bad pun

But..appropriate

(Grin)


--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don’t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"

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