"axolotl" wrote in message
...
My mystery for today- took the car through inspection today; failed for
"OBD not ready" in the emissions on board diagnostics. I had disconnected
the battery while doing maintenance and concluded the 20 mile drive to the
inspection station would refill the computer. Evidently I was wrong. What
kind of driving is required to fill the computer? The patient is a Ford
Windstar, made of plastic and metal.

Kevin Gallimore

Same thing happened to me. Had to drive about 50 miles on
the expressway and a few days of regular street driving to
accumulate enough data in the OBD to pass the emmisions
test. I have a mercury(ford) sable. Fortunatley retesting was
free.

Best Regards
Tom.
--
http://fija.org/

"azotic" fired this volley in news:kt6vgv$har$1
@speranza.aioe.org:

"OBD not ready

Demand that the *******s put a tailpipe analyzer on it, or pass you.
They have no legal right to 'invade' your private space inside your
vehicle, and they have no means to connect an OBD-II connector to your
vehicle without doing so.

Such constitutes an unwarranted search and seizure without probable
cause.

Lloyd

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:10:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"azotic" fired this volley in news:kt6vgv$har$1
:

"OBD not ready

Demand that the *******s put a tailpipe analyzer on it, or pass you.
They have no legal right to 'invade' your private space inside your
vehicle, and they have no means to connect an OBD-II connector to your
vehicle without doing so.

Such constitutes an unwarranted search and seizure without probable
cause.

Aren't the state inspections written up so the techs have legal access
to OBD ports? (Cars didn't yet have those when my smog license in CA
was current, way back in the '80s.)

I'm not entranced by the State digging into our lives, but I was
really sad when CA stopped its safety inspections after the ACLU took
them to court over its Constitutionality. They got a whole lot of
unsafe vehicles (and people) either fixed or off the streets. They
would run a mirror under the car to check for holes in the exhaust
systems, check all lights and turn signals, lean in the door and step
on the brake pedal to check for unsafe brake systems/low pedals, and
check the headlight alignment. They also caught a bunch of drunks and
got them off the roads, so it was absolutely for the greater good.
Now, all they're doing is looking for polluters and everybody's lights
blind others all the time. Go figure!


--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 16:57:18 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:


"axolotl" wrote in message
...
My mystery for today- took the car through inspection today; failed for
"OBD not ready" in the emissions on board diagnostics. I had disconnected
the battery while doing maintenance and concluded the 20 mile drive to the
inspection station would refill the computer. Evidently I was wrong. What
kind of driving is required to fill the computer? The patient is a Ford
Windstar, made of plastic and metal.

Kevin Gallimore

Same thing happened to me. Had to drive about 50 miles on
the expressway and a few days of regular street driving to
accumulate enough data in the OBD to pass the emmisions
test. I have a mercury(ford) sable. Fortunatley retesting was
free.

Best Regards
Tom.
The drive cycle can be completed, with possible exception of emission
monitor, in less than an hour. One monitor not set still passes.

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:10:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"azotic" fired this volley in news:kt6vgv$har$1
:

"OBD not ready

Demand that the *******s put a tailpipe analyzer on it, or pass you.
They have no legal right to 'invade' your private space inside your
vehicle, and they have no means to connect an OBD-II connector to your
vehicle without doing so.

Such constitutes an unwarranted search and seizure without probable
cause.

Lloyd
Wrong.

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:10:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"azotic" fired this volley in news:kt6vgv$har$1
:

"OBD not ready

Demand that the *******s put a tailpipe analyzer on it, or pass you.
They have no legal right to 'invade' your private space inside your
vehicle, and they have no means to connect an OBD-II connector to your
vehicle without doing so.

Such constitutes an unwarranted search and seizure without probable
cause.

Lloyd

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

To get the privilege is you have to follow the applicable laws to get
your license and get the vehicle registered. The smog rules are
over-reaching and draconian, but they are the law so we have to follow
them - until and unless we can get them changed.

I hope you brought your good walking shoes, because when your tags
expire you won't be able to drive your automobile on public streets
anymore, and they'll arrest you if you try doing it with expired tags.

And if you follow the same logic and don't let them check your
eyesight when you go in for a renewal, you won't have a Drivers
License either.

The moral of this story is, don't disconnect the battery for about a
week before you go in for a smog check (if you drive once or twice
every day for a good 15 or 20 miles) and all will be well. Or at
least if it doesn't have any problems.

-- Bruce --

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:19:36 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:10:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"azotic" fired this volley in news:kt6vgv$har$1
:

"OBD not ready

Demand that the *******s put a tailpipe analyzer on it, or pass you.
They have no legal right to 'invade' your private space inside your
vehicle, and they have no means to connect an OBD-II connector to your
vehicle without doing so.

Such constitutes an unwarranted search and seizure without probable
cause.

Lloyd

Driving is a privilege, not a right.

To get the privilege is you have to follow the applicable laws to get
your license and get the vehicle registered. The smog rules are
over-reaching and draconian, but they are the law so we have to follow
them - until and unless we can get them changed.

I hope you brought your good walking shoes, because when your tags
expire you won't be able to drive your automobile on public streets
anymore, and they'll arrest you if you try doing it with expired tags.

And if you follow the same logic and don't let them check your
eyesight when you go in for a renewal, you won't have a Drivers
License either.

The moral of this story is, don't disconnect the battery for about a
week before you go in for a smog check (if you drive once or twice
every day for a good 15 or 20 miles) and all will be well. Or at
least if it doesn't have any problems.

-- Bruce --

Only in America.

You go out and put yourself in hock for five years to buy a car so
that you can drive back and forth to work and when you take it to have
it inspected they tell you that it doesn't pass? You can't drive it?

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 7/30/2013 6:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:19:36 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:10:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"azotic" fired this volley in news:kt6vgv$har$1
@speranza.aioe.org:


-- Bruce --

Only in America.

You go out and put yourself in hock for five years to buy a car so
that you can drive back and forth to work and when you take it to have
it inspected they tell you that it doesn't pass? You can't drive it?

--
Cheers,

John B.


"only in America?" have you lost your mind - we have one of the most
permissive set of automotive regulations in the developed world. Sure,
in Afghanistan you could drive things you couldn't drive here, but have
you ever even considered that there are other countries? Have you
looked at the automotive inspection schedule in Japan, England, France,
Germany, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Holland? You have absolutely no idea
what you are talking about and you are whining because you can not
impose the health costs of your car on others and are being forced to
fix what is wrong with it.

--
For a $5 dollar donation today you get credit for $10 with HIM

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 21:31:26 -0700, a friend
wrote:

On 7/30/2013 6:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:19:36 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:10:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"azotic" fired this volley in news:kt6vgv$har$1
@speranza.aioe.org:


-- Bruce --

Only in America.

You go out and put yourself in hock for five years to buy a car so
that you can drive back and forth to work and when you take it to have
it inspected they tell you that it doesn't pass? You can't drive it?

--
Cheers,

John B.


"only in America?" have you lost your mind - we have one of the most
permissive set of automotive regulations in the developed world. Sure,
in Afghanistan you could drive things you couldn't drive here, but have
you ever even considered that there are other countries? Have you
looked at the automotive inspection schedule in Japan, England, France,
Germany, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Holland? You have absolutely no idea
what you are talking about and you are whining because you can not
impose the health costs of your car on others and are being forced to
fix what is wrong with it.

Oh..another Gorbal Warming nutcase heard from.


--
""Almost all liberal behavioral tropes track the impotent rage of small
children. Thus, for example, there is also the popular tactic of
repeating some stupid, meaningless phrase a billion times" Arms for
hostages, arms for hostages, arms for hostages, it's just about sex, just
about sex, just about sex, dumb,dumb, money in politics,money in
politics, Enron, Enron, Enron. Nothing repeated with mind-numbing
frequency in all major news outlets will not be believed by some members
of the populace. It is the permanence of evil; you can't stop it." (Ann
Coulter)

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 21:31:26 -0700, a friend
wrote:

On 7/30/2013 6:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:19:36 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:10:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"azotic" fired this volley in news:kt6vgv$har$1
@speranza.aioe.org:


-- Bruce --

Only in America.

You go out and put yourself in hock for five years to buy a car so
that you can drive back and forth to work and when you take it to have
it inspected they tell you that it doesn't pass? You can't drive it?

--
Cheers,

John B.


"only in America?" have you lost your mind - we have one of the most
permissive set of automotive regulations in the developed world. Sure,
in Afghanistan you could drive things you couldn't drive here, but have
you ever even considered that there are other countries? Have you
looked at the automotive inspection schedule in Japan, England, France,
Germany, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Holland? You have absolutely no idea
what you are talking about and you are whining because you can not
impose the health costs of your car on others and are being forced to
fix what is wrong with it.


My goodness. so what are you telling me? That although you can't get
your new car to pass the smog inspection in America it is even worse
in other places?

Well, I suppose it is. You can't even buy a new car in Singapore
without government permission to do so.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:


Only in America.

You go out and put yourself in hock for five years to buy a car so
that you can drive back and forth to work and when you take it to have
it inspected they tell you that it doesn't pass? You can't drive it?

--
Cheers,

John B.

Not, Only in America. Many countries are MUCH stricter with regards to
vehicles.


--
Steve W.

"Steve W." on Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:17:06 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
John B. wrote:
Only in America.

You go out and put yourself in hock for five years to buy a car so
that you can drive back and forth to work and when you take it to have
it inspected they tell you that it doesn't pass? You can't drive it?

--
Cheers,

John B.

Not, Only in America. Many countries are MUCH stricter with regards to
vehicles.

We had a saying when I lived in Germany "Da TUV is tough." If
they could put a screwdriver through _a_ rusty patch (and they knew
where they all were) the vehicle failed the inspection. Fail three
times, and you can not drive it 'home' but must get it towed from the
Inspection. And that is in addition to lights, brakes, smog, etc -
all of which must be in working order! And pretty much "stock" too.
And "bald tires" - you could be ticketed and fined for those, even
if the car was otherwise legally parked. Yes, you could be fined for
bald tires by a 'meter madcchen" - each. As in a 25 DMark fine, per
tire.
Ja, ja - tell me how tough things are in the States.


tschus
pyotr

p.s. There were many "funny" stories of foreigners trying to drive
into Germany, with automobiles which literally had parts fall off.
"Nein, das maschien gehen nichts! Ist verbot!"
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

pyotr filipivich wrote:

p.s. There were many "funny" stories of foreigners trying to drive
into Germany, with automobiles which literally had parts fall off.
"Nein, das maschien gehen nichts! Ist verbot!"


That's what happened when they hired Sgt. Shultz?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
We had a saying when I lived in Germany "Da TUV is tough." ...
tschus
pyotr

In the early 1970's American GIs didn't have to meet all the
requirements the Germans did, or pay their huge gas tax, but the
safety inspection was still more demanding than at home. For instance
the hand brake must be able to stop the car by locking up both rear
wheels. I heard that Germans couldn't even install spark plugs the
maker hadn't recommended.
jsw

On 7/31/2013 03:20, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 21:31:26 -0700, a friend
wrote:

On 7/30/2013 6:03 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 09:19:36 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 19:10:15 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"azotic" fired this volley in news:kt6vgv$har$1
@speranza.aioe.org:


-- Bruce --

Only in America.

You go out and put yourself in hock for five years to buy a car so
that you can drive back and forth to work and when you take it to have
it inspected they tell you that it doesn't pass? You can't drive it?

--
Cheers,

John B.


"only in America?" have you lost your mind - we have one of the most
permissive set of automotive regulations in the developed world. Sure,
in Afghanistan you could drive things you couldn't drive here, but have
you ever even considered that there are other countries? Have you
looked at the automotive inspection schedule in Japan, England, France,
Germany, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Holland? You have absolutely no idea
what you are talking about and you are whining because you can not
impose the health costs of your car on others and are being forced to
fix what is wrong with it.


My goodness. so what are you telling me? That although you can't get
your new car to pass the smog inspection in America it is even worse
in other places?

Well, I suppose it is. You can't even buy a new car in Singapore
without government permission to do so.
--
Cheers,

John B.



Correct. My wife is from there. COE (certificate of entitlement) costs
over $70,000(singapore dollars, about $55,000 US, if you are lucky
enough to bid and get one). This entitles you to drive the car until it
is 10 years old. Then you must bid again. Kind of kills the used car market.

All motor vehicles imported into Singapore are slapped with a customs
duty of 41 per cent. There is also a Registration Fee to be paid. The
fee is $1,000 for private vehicles and $5,000 for company vehicles. In
addition, when a car is first registered (whether new or used), an
Additional Registration Fee (ARF) of 150 per cent of the car's Open
Market Value is payable.

--
Steve Walker
(remove brain when replying)

pyotr filipivich wrote:
"Steve W." on Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:17:06 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
John B. wrote:
Only in America.

You go out and put yourself in hock for five years to buy a car so
that you can drive back and forth to work and when you take it to have
it inspected they tell you that it doesn't pass? You can't drive it?

--
Cheers,

John B.
Not, Only in America. Many countries are MUCH stricter with regards to
vehicles.

We had a saying when I lived in Germany "Da TUV is tough." If
they could put a screwdriver through _a_ rusty patch (and they knew
where they all were) the vehicle failed the inspection. Fail three
times, and you can not drive it 'home' but must get it towed from the
Inspection. And that is in addition to lights, brakes, smog, etc -
all of which must be in working order! And pretty much "stock" too.
And "bald tires" - you could be ticketed and fined for those, even
if the car was otherwise legally parked. Yes, you could be fined for
bald tires by a 'meter madcchen" - each. As in a 25 DMark fine, per
tire.
Ja, ja - tell me how tough things are in the States.


tschus
pyotr

p.s. There were many "funny" stories of foreigners trying to drive
into Germany, with automobiles which literally had parts fall off.
"Nein, das maschien gehen nichts! Ist verbot!"
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Sounds similar to Japan. They also increase the fees as the car ages and
you must prove that you have off street parking at the residence you
show on the paperwork.


--
Steve W.

"Michael A. Terrell" on Wed, 31 Jul 2013
14:44:25 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

p.s. There were many "funny" stories of foreigners trying to drive
into Germany, with automobiles which literally had parts fall off.
"Nein, das maschien gehen nichts! Ist verbot!"

That's what happened when they hired Sgt. Shultz?

Like hell! Those guys saw it happen, and they made sure it was
not going to be permitted on German roads.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"Steve W." on Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:08:30 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
"Steve W." on Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:17:06 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
John B. wrote:
Only in America.

You go out and put yourself in hock for five years to buy a car so
that you can drive back and forth to work and when you take it to have
it inspected they tell you that it doesn't pass? You can't drive it?

--
Cheers,

John B.
Not, Only in America. Many countries are MUCH stricter with regards to
vehicles.

We had a saying when I lived in Germany "Da TUV is tough." If
they could put a screwdriver through _a_ rusty patch (and they knew
where they all were) the vehicle failed the inspection. Fail three
times, and you can not drive it 'home' but must get it towed from the
Inspection. And that is in addition to lights, brakes, smog, etc -
all of which must be in working order! And pretty much "stock" too.
And "bald tires" - you could be ticketed and fined for those, even
if the car was otherwise legally parked. Yes, you could be fined for
bald tires by a 'meter madcchen" - each. As in a 25 DMark fine, per
tire.
Ja, ja - tell me how tough things are in the States.


tschus
pyotr

p.s. There were many "funny" stories of foreigners trying to drive
into Germany, with automobiles which literally had parts fall off.
"Nein, das maschien gehen nichts! Ist verbot!"
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Sounds similar to Japan. They also increase the fees as the car ages and
you must prove that you have off street parking at the residence you
show on the paperwork.

Funny how having a small livable area does that to one?
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"Jim Wilkins" on Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:59:58
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
We had a saying when I lived in Germany "Da TUV is tough." ...
tschus
pyotr

In the early 1970's American GIs didn't have to meet all the
requirements the Germans did, or pay their huge gas tax, but the
safety inspection was still more demanding than at home.

That's true.

For instance
the hand brake must be able to stop the car by locking up both rear
wheels. I heard that Germans couldn't even install spark plugs the
maker hadn't recommended.

I'm not sure if "couldn't" or "wouldn't". One major difference I
notice between the Americans and the Continentals, was the American
attitude of "Let's try it and find out." Not to mention we seemed to
be all natural DIY. And that included cars. It may be that cars were
a more integral part of US culture longer than they were in Germany.
So we had parents who had been messing about with cars when they were
"our age."
I can't be sure, but I think my Dad was at least familiar with
some hot rodders ... in his day.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"Steve W." on Wed, 31 Jul 2013 20:08:30 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:
"Steve W." on Wed, 31 Jul 2013 11:17:06 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
John B. wrote:
Only in America.

You go out and put yourself in hock for five years to buy a car so
that you can drive back and forth to work and when you take it to have
it inspected they tell you that it doesn't pass? You can't drive it?

--
Cheers,

John B.
Not, Only in America. Many countries are MUCH stricter with regards to
vehicles.

We had a saying when I lived in Germany "Da TUV is tough." If
they could put a screwdriver through _a_ rusty patch (and they knew
where they all were) the vehicle failed the inspection. Fail three
times, and you can not drive it 'home' but must get it towed from the
Inspection. And that is in addition to lights, brakes, smog, etc -
all of which must be in working order! And pretty much "stock" too.
And "bald tires" - you could be ticketed and fined for those, even
if the car was otherwise legally parked. Yes, you could be fined for
bald tires by a 'meter madcchen" - each. As in a 25 DMark fine, per
tire.
Ja, ja - tell me how tough things are in the States.


tschus
pyotr

p.s. There were many "funny" stories of foreigners trying to drive
into Germany, with automobiles which literally had parts fall off.
"Nein, das maschien gehen nichts! Ist verbot!"
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

Sounds similar to Japan. They also increase the fees as the car ages and
you must prove that you have off street parking at the residence you
show on the paperwork.

Those increasing fees with age - one reason you can get Japanese
engines "cheap". The engines are still good, but .. they've out lived
their allotted burocratic life.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" on Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:59:58
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
For instance
the hand brake must be able to stop the car by locking up both rear
wheels. I heard that Germans couldn't even install spark plugs the
maker hadn't recommended.

I'm not sure if "couldn't" or "wouldn't". One major difference I
notice between the Americans and the Continentals, was the American
attitude of "Let's try it and find out." Not to mention we seemed
to
be all natural DIY. And that included cars. It may be that cars
were
a more integral part of US culture longer than they were in Germany.
So we had parents who had been messing about with cars when they
were
"our age."
I can't be sure, but I think my Dad was at least familiar with
some hot rodders ... in his day.
--
pyotr filipivich

I looked hard for cultural similarities and differences, but I didn't
have enough opportunity for social interaction with the Germans to see
if they were tinkerers. The hobby stores there were amazingly well
stocked, but raw materials like wood were expensive and hard to find.

For that matter most Americans weren't too good at auto repair, or
manual tasks in general, even in the Signal Corps. At the base where I
ran the photo lab not one person asked to use it to develop and print
their own pictures. I was apparently the only NCO willing and able to
change his own truck tire.

A roommate ran the crafts shop, mostly to manufacture hash pipes. We
made little commando raids into the countryside to covertly snip off
suitable briar branches from hedges.

jsw

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" ? on Wed, 31 Jul 2013
14:44:25 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
?
?pyotr filipivich wrote:
??
?? p.s. There were many "funny" stories of foreigners trying to drive
?? into Germany, with automobiles which literally had parts fall off.
?? "Nein, das maschien gehen nichts! Ist verbot!"
?
? That's what happened when they hired Sgt. Shultz?

Like hell! Those guys saw it happen, and they made sure it was
not going to be permitted on German roads.


After seeing what Shultz would let slip through for a chocolate bar,
or a pair of nylons, of course! ;-)

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Michael A. Terrell" on Thu, 01 Aug 2013
11:01:16 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" ? on Wed, 31 Jul 2013
14:44:25 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
?
?pyotr filipivich wrote:
??
?? p.s. There were many "funny" stories of foreigners trying to drive
?? into Germany, with automobiles which literally had parts fall off.
?? "Nein, das maschien gehen nichts! Ist verbot!"
?
? That's what happened when they hired Sgt. Shultz?

Like hell! Those guys saw it happen, and they made sure it was
not going to be permitted on German roads.


After seeing what Shultz would let slip through for a chocolate bar,
or a pair of nylons, of course! ;-)

Ja, ja.

FYI: One of those interesting trivial bits was that Hogan's
Hero's, dubbed into German, was one of those "cult classics". in
syndication.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

pyotr filipivich wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" ? on Thu, 01 Aug 2013
11:01:16 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
?
?pyotr filipivich wrote:
??
?? "Michael A. Terrell" ? on Wed, 31 Jul 2013
?? 14:44:25 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
?? ?
?? ?pyotr filipivich wrote:
?? ??
?? ?? p.s. There were many "funny" stories of foreigners trying to drive
?? ?? into Germany, with automobiles which literally had parts fall off.
?? ?? "Nein, das maschien gehen nichts! Ist verbot!"
?? ?
?? ? That's what happened when they hired Sgt. Shultz?
??
?? Like hell! Those guys saw it happen, and they made sure it was
?? not going to be permitted on German roads.
?
?
? After seeing what Shultz would let slip through for a chocolate bar,
?or a pair of nylons, of course! ;-)

Ja, ja.

FYI: One of those interesting trivial bits was that Hogan's
Heroes, dubbed into German, was one of those "cult classics". in


We weren't allowed to watch 'Hogan's Heroes' when I was in basic
training. One of the DIs had the nerve to state "That's nothing like a
real POW camp!" Talk about stating the obvious.

Hogan's Heroes is on one of the 'free' OTA subchannels, but I can't
connect to TVGuide.com right now to find it. I get Antenna TV, ME TV,
Retro TV and This TV with a QAM tuner in one of my computers. OTOH, so
is M*A*S*H.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...


Hogan's Heroes is on one of the 'free' OTA subchannels, but I
can't
connect to TVGuide.com right now to find it. I get Antenna TV, ME
TV,
Retro TV and This TV with a QAM tuner in one of my computers. OTOH,
so
is M*A*S*H.

http://www.titantv.com/default.aspx/

I logged in and created a custom lineup to add a station from outside
the Boston metro area, and to delete all the Spanish and shopping
channels.
jsw

On 2013-08-01, Jim Wilkins wrote:
For that matter most Americans weren't too good at auto repair, or
manual tasks in general, even in the Signal Corps. At the base where I
ran the photo lab not one person asked to use it to develop and print
their own pictures.

Was it made clear that this was possible/allowed? (E.G. was
this a hobby lab supplied for the soldiers, or a lab normally used for
normal "business" purposes?

I certainly would use it if I did not have my own photo lab at
the time. (But I was not in the Army, so perhaps having my own photo
lab was easier. :-)

I lose track of the number of rolls of B&W (Usually Tri-X,
occasionally Plus-X) and Ektrachrom X/Ektacrhome-64 that I've processed
in my day. :-)

I was apparently the only NCO willing and able to
change his own truck tire.

That is sad.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" on 2 Aug 2013 01:10:52 GMT
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 2013-08-01, Jim Wilkins wrote:
For that matter most Americans weren't too good at auto repair, or
manual tasks in general, even in the Signal Corps. At the base where I
ran the photo lab not one person asked to use it to develop and print
their own pictures.

Was it made clear that this was possible/allowed? (E.G. was
this a hobby lab supplied for the soldiers, or a lab normally used for
normal "business" purposes?

If it was like the few I frequented, they tended to be bare bone
equipment, you'd be best to bring any special "tools" you might want.

Processing one's one film, is a pain. Been there, done that,
nothing like tossing a roll because you were too sick to properly
evaluate it, or wait for it to dry. And then realize what you did -
yesterday.

I certainly would use it if I did not have my own photo lab at
the time. (But I was not in the Army, so perhaps having my own photo
lab was easier. :-)

I lose track of the number of rolls of B&W (Usually Tri-X,
occasionally Plus-X) and Ektrachrom X/Ektacrhome-64 that I've processed
in my day. :-)

Pushing tri-X to 1600. OH, and for what it is worth, you get an
interesting effect developing Tri-X in the paper developer. Grain
that you could see.
As I stopped doing my own processing, I switched from BW to color,
form SLR to instamatics.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"Jim Wilkins" on Thu, 1 Aug 2013 08:05:04 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
"Jim Wilkins" on Wed, 31 Jul 2013 15:59:58
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
For instance
the hand brake must be able to stop the car by locking up both rear
wheels. I heard that Germans couldn't even install spark plugs the
maker hadn't recommended.

I'm not sure if "couldn't" or "wouldn't". One major difference I
notice between the Americans and the Continentals, was the American
attitude of "Let's try it and find out." Not to mention we seemed
to be all natural DIY. And that included cars. It may be that cars
were a more integral part of US culture longer than they were in Germany.
So we had parents who had been messing about with cars when they
were "our age."
I can't be sure, but I think my Dad was at least familiar with
some hot rodders ... in his day.

I looked hard for cultural similarities and differences, but I didn't
have enough opportunity for social interaction with the Germans to see
if they were tinkerers. The hobby stores there were amazingly well
stocked, but raw materials like wood were expensive and hard to find.

For that matter most Americans weren't too good at auto repair, or
manual tasks in general, even in the Signal Corps. At the base where I
ran the photo lab not one person asked to use it to develop and print
their own pictures. I was apparently the only NCO willing and able to
change his own truck tire.

I wonder how the "sociological" elements impacted all that. I was
an Officer's brat, so I moved in a more "rarified" atmosphere -
largely it was "Uncle Sam has decided to send us here for 2 (3, 4)
years" realizing that folks back home were scrimping to save up enough
to spend two weeks. I.E., Going broke saving money on furniture you
can't afford in the states.
I would also wonder how many of the troops were of the opinion "I
don't want to be here, I was drafted, I don't like it here" and refuse
to exploit the generosity of their Uncle Sam who sent him someplace
for a year or two where other people will save up for years just to
drop in for a week?

A roommate ran the crafts shop, mostly to manufacture hash pipes. We
made little commando raids into the countryside to covertly snip off
suitable briar branches from hedges.

Well, I'm glad to see that someone was taking advantage of his
skills, and opportunities.

"Reminds me of Czechoslovakia in the spring. I. er, have never
been there, but that's what they tell me it's like."


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-08-01, Jim Wilkins wrote:
For that matter most Americans weren't too good at auto repair, or
manual tasks in general, even in the Signal Corps. At the base
where I
ran the photo lab not one person asked to use it to develop and
print
their own pictures.

Was it made clear that this was possible/allowed? (E.G. was
this a hobby lab supplied for the soldiers, or a lab normally used
for
normal "business" purposes?

Most Army bases had a crafts shop, an auto shop and a photo lab to
keep the troops occupied, since relatively few dared to roam outside
by themselves other than to bar-hop downtown. The post I was at the
longest had a USO-run theater group that I became involved in, and
dragged in my friends and their wives.

Before I took over the lab's normal business had been storing and
selling drugs. For the first two weeks after taking over I'd hear a
knock on the door and open it to see an embarrassed-looking black face
that turned and left without saying anything.

I put together a very compact no-darkroom film developing kit, mainly
to quickly read the license plates of suspicious vehicles I was
assigned to watch for and photograph. I took it to a friend's
apartment and showed him how easy it was to develop and print B&W
photos, but still he never used the lab. Probably the main reason was
that it couldn't process color, for images like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rothenburg_BW_4.JPG
Color film was cheap and convenient through the PX, and even the
well-equipped and heavily used photo lab in Heidelberg didn't have
color equipment.

I have a slide of that scene with my car parked on the side street.
Many unbombed small towns looked like that.

The very helpful photo shop owner who set me up was later exposed as a
Soviet spy.

jsw

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...

I would also wonder how many of the troops were of the opinion "I
don't want to be here, I was drafted, I don't like it here" and
refuse
to exploit the generosity of their Uncle Sam who sent him someplace
for a year or two where other people will save up for years just to
drop in for a week?

The alternative was Vietnam. To my considerable surprise some people
preferred it there, mainly minorities who told me how much they
enjoyed being treated like rich mainstream Americans in Saigon.

Though we didn't lack for bitter draftee truck drivers a lot of the
Signal Corps had enlisted to get into a school and learn a useful
skill before the draft sent them to the Infantry. Each base was a
relatively self-reliant closed commune with most of the needs of
civilian society. We could do everything but grow food, either in base
or when deployed to some isolated frozen mountaintop radio relay site.
That's where you learn what your real "needs" are, just food, water,
clothing and shelter. Heat isn't one of them.

Except for Heidelberg the Army bases weren't in cosmopolitan tourist
destinations. They were old German Kasernes, some dating from
Frederick the Great, with WW2 plumbing at best. The Germans there were
indifferent and not too accommodating to non German speakers. I'm far
from a fluent speaker but could understand it pretty well. I had taken
German classes aimed at reading chemical and mathematical texts and
was better at vocabulary than grammar.

jsw

On 08/02/2013 08:29 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Except for Heidelberg the Army bases weren't in cosmopolitan tourist
destinations. They were old German Kasernes, some dating from
Frederick the Great, with WW2 plumbing at best. The Germans there were
indifferent and not too accommodating to non German speakers. I'm far
from a fluent speaker but could understand it pretty well. I had taken
German classes aimed at reading chemical and mathematical texts and
was better at vocabulary than grammar.

My experience during the 2 years spent near Ramstein was every
time I tried to use my best broken German, they immediately switched
to Americanish for the practice.

Yeah, dormrats had it rough. The rest of us went offbase.



technomaNge
--
Guam, however, was different.

technomaNge on Fri, 02 Aug 2013 18:52:24 -0500 typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 08/02/2013 08:29 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Except for Heidelberg the Army bases weren't in cosmopolitan tourist
destinations. They were old German Kasernes, some dating from
Frederick the Great, with WW2 plumbing at best. The Germans there were
indifferent and not too accommodating to non German speakers. I'm far
from a fluent speaker but could understand it pretty well. I had taken
German classes aimed at reading chemical and mathematical texts and
was better at vocabulary than grammar.

My experience during the 2 years spent near Ramstein was every
time I tried to use my best broken German, they immediately switched
to Americanish for the practice.

I hitchhike a lot back and forth from (near Augsburg) to Lausanne
CH - and the same sort of story. Their English invariably was better
than my German.

Yeah, dormrats had it rough. The rest of us went offbase.

There are days when I wish I had signed up with Uncle Sam. Later
I would say - company town, just spread out all over, and I knew how
the company worked. And I would not have to wonder what I was going
to wear to work today.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On 2013-08-02, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-08-01, Jim Wilkins wrote:
For that matter most Americans weren't too good at auto repair, or
manual tasks in general, even in the Signal Corps. At the base
where I
ran the photo lab not one person asked to use it to develop and
print
their own pictures.

Was it made clear that this was possible/allowed? (E.G. was
this a hobby lab supplied for the soldiers, or a lab normally used
for
normal "business" purposes?

Most Army bases had a crafts shop, an auto shop and a photo lab to
keep the troops occupied, since relatively few dared to roam outside
by themselves other than to bar-hop downtown. The post I was at the
longest had a USO-run theater group that I became involved in, and
dragged in my friends and their wives.

O.K. While I worked on an Army base here in the USA for many
years, as a civilian employee, I was not able to use such facilities,
and thus it was not really worth my while to learn about them. :-)

Before I took over the lab's normal business had been storing and
selling drugs. For the first two weeks after taking over I'd hear a
knock on the door and open it to see an embarrassed-looking black face
that turned and left without saying anything.

:-)

I put together a very compact no-darkroom film developing kit, mainly
to quickly read the license plates of suspicious vehicles I was
assigned to watch for and photograph.

O.K. Changing bag, developing tank, and bottles for the
chemicals -- and running water for the developing.

For larger negative sizes (say 2-1/4" square and larger) contact
prints could be made with sun proof paper -- but not good for long-term
storage. :-) I guess a spare shutter, and a box with something like 4x5"
film holders in the bottom, and a negative holder, and you might be
able to expose contact prints at least. If the paper is small enough,
it could be fit into the developing tank, but developing would have to be
based on time and temperature, since you could not develop it by
inspection as you could in a darkroom with trays and a safelight. If
the bathroom or kitchen can be made dark enough, you could probably do
it there.

But I guess that you were simply reading the license plates off
the negatives -- perhaps even while still wet. :-)

I took it to a friend's
apartment and showed him how easy it was to develop and print B&W
photos,

So -- you did have some way to print in there. No enlarging,
probably, but with large enough negatives, contact prints do a lot of
what you need.

I used to take my developing tank and changing bag along on
trips, so I could turn exposed rolls into negatives, and wait about the
printing until I got home -- if ever. :-)

but still he never used the lab. Probably the main reason was
that it couldn't process color, for images like this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rothenburg_BW_4.JPG

That is an intersting looking building -- with some history,
I'll bet.

Color film was cheap and convenient through the PX, and even the
well-equipped and heavily used photo lab in Heidelberg didn't have
color equipment.

O.K. For Ektrachrome, you simply needed more bottles for the
chemicals, a better thermometer, and a good timer -- and then a clothes
iron to seal the slide binders. Toss in a slide projector and a
flat-white wall (or better a purpose-designed screen) and the
"enlargements" question is solved -- at least temporarily.

The first three baths were with the developing tank closed, then
it was pulled out for second exposure (waving it around near a No. 2
photoflood) and back into chemicals with the lid off for quicker
pouring, or on for easier agitation (Nikkor tanks were my preference.)

I wish that I could find another three or four E4 kits. I've
got just enough exposed and stored in the 'fridge rolls of Ektrachrome
to use them up -- and I wonder what is on those rolls. :-)

Kodachrome was out of the question with the information
available to me when I was doing my own developing.

Color negatives were a real pain by comparison. :-)

I have a slide of that scene with my car parked on the side street.
Many unbombed small towns looked like that.

Fascinating.

The very helpful photo shop owner who set me up was later exposed as a
Soviet spy.

Of course! Would that not be likely for anyone very helpful to
GIs near an Army base in Germany at that time? :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-08-02, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I put together a very compact no-darkroom film developing kit,
mainly
to quickly read the license plates of suspicious vehicles I was
assigned to watch for and photograph.

O.K. Changing bag, developing tank, and bottles for the
chemicals -- and running water for the developing.

The hard part was loading 16mm Minolta film onto the spiral developing
tank reel by feel in the bag. Wherever it jumped the track it touched
another turn and didn't develop properly. I learned to judge and
preset exposure and distance so I could shoot with my hand down at my
side, or at right angles to the direction I was pointing the Pentax.

But I guess that you were simply reading the license plates off
the negatives -- perhaps even while still wet. :-)

I never caught any. Apparently Black September, the Baader-Meinhof
Gang and the Red Army Faction found out that we were alerted for
suspicious activity, and carrying loaded weapons. It was fine with me
that the front gate MPs didn't have to start a gunfight while I was
waiting for a bus that never came.

So -- you did have some way to print in there. No enlarging,
probably, but with large enough negatives, contact prints do a lot
of
what you need.

I had a simple collapsible enlarger that took lenses from my old Leica
III. The PX was well stocked with photographic and audio equipment, I
suppose to compensate for our inability to keep or transport larger
consumer goods. We were nomads who in theory couldn't own more than we
could carry.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rothenburg_BW_4.JPG

That is an intersting looking building -- with some history,
I'll bet.

Every place had some history. I had learned enough of it in high
school to know the context for local tales of Tilly or the wars of the
Guelphs vs Ghibellines. One small town had a monument to a long list
of casualties in the fierce battle against the American invaders. Over
the centuries France had inflicted a great deal of destruction there.
http://www.joe-offer.com/folkinfo/songs/525.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24736216@N07/2462391079/
The inside of the wall is covered with carved signatures, some by very
old historical and literary figures. I recognized those of the writers
Achim von Arnim and Clemens Brentano, but didn't find Mark Twain's.

http://www.examiner.com/article/on-t...-ob-der-tauber
"The sad anecdote to this tale is that the mayor died minutes later,
presumably from a combination of alcohol poisoning and kidney
failure."
The glockenspiel (clock-play) is an animated clock that acts out the
scene.
Many of the tales end on a sad, Kafkaesque note.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weltschmerz

This was my favorite:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dettelbach
I stumbled onto it before it became a tourist attraction, when
Americans were a novelty.

The very helpful photo shop owner who set me up was later exposed
as a
Soviet spy.

Of course! Would that not be likely for anyone very helpful to
GIs near an Army base in Germany at that time? :-)
DoN.

If anyone asked, I said I repaired office equipment, and never took
color pix that might have revealed where I went on repair calls.

jsw

On 2013-08-03, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-08-02, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I put together a very compact no-darkroom film developing kit,
mainly
to quickly read the license plates of suspicious vehicles I was
assigned to watch for and photograph.

O.K. Changing bag, developing tank, and bottles for the
chemicals -- and running water for the developing.

The hard part was loading 16mm Minolta film onto the spiral developing
tank reel by feel in the bag.

16mm film is a pain. I've done it -- including developing it by
the see-saw method in trays. First time I did it, when the timer went
off, I nearly threw it up into the pipes in the ceiling. That was a
*loud* timer. (A wind-up one which was started by pushing a lever to
the right and down. :-)

Wherever it jumped the track it touched
another turn and didn't develop properly.

Been there. Mostly with the plastic-reeled tanks. Some of them
might have been a bit easier to deal with it. The two flanges could be
rotated a few degrees relative to each other and would feed the film in
a little at a time. But I'm not sure whether those particular tanks
could be adjusted down to 16mm size. I usually used the Nikor stainless
steel tanks and welded wire reels -- easier to dry quickly to get
another batch done in an evening. And loading film into a still wet
reel is asking for trouble.

I learned to judge and
preset exposure and distance so I could shoot with my hand down at my
side, or at right angles to the direction I was pointing the Pentax.

A 16mm Minolta held at the same time as the Pentax. Intersting
approach.

I also remember in a camera magazine a large lens hood which
held a mirror and had an opening in the side, so you could photograph at
right angles.

As for preset exposure and focus -- I tended to frequently meter
and adjust the exposure of the camera so I could get shots off
more quickly when the opportunity presented itself. (These days, the
Nikon D300s (and even the D70 before it) has fast enough auto-exposure
so that is not necessary. Manual exposure for when you want precise
control -- depth of field from aperture vs motion stopping/showing form
shutter speed.

But I guess that you were simply reading the license plates off
the negatives -- perhaps even while still wet. :-)

I never caught any. Apparently Black September, the Baader-Meinhof
Gang and the Red Army Faction found out that we were alerted for
suspicious activity, and carrying loaded weapons. It was fine with me
that the front gate MPs didn't have to start a gunfight while I was
waiting for a bus that never came.

:-)

So -- you did have some way to print in there. No enlarging,
probably, but with large enough negatives, contact prints do a lot
of
what you need.

I had a simple collapsible enlarger that took lenses from my old Leica
III.

O.K. *that* requires at least a darkenable room, if not a
made-for-the-purpose darkroom.

The PX was well stocked with photographic and audio equipment, I
suppose to compensate for our inability to keep or transport larger
consumer goods. We were nomads who in theory couldn't own more than we
could carry.

Leica lenses should have been fairly easy to find there. :-)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rothenburg_BW_4.JPG

That is an intersting looking building -- with some history,
I'll bet.

Every place had some history.

In particular, I was referring to that building, which looks as
though it was much older than the surrounding area, and when the road
was put though, just enough was cut out of one corner to allow cars and
reasonable sized trucks to pass, while retaining as much of the building
as possible. And this suggests that either the building had historical
importance, or the owner at that time had significant political clout, or
it would have just been knocked down totally.

I had learned enough of it in high
school to know the context for local tales of Tilly or the wars of the
Guelphs vs Ghibellines. One small town had a monument to a long list
of casualties in the fierce battle against the American invaders. Over
the centuries France had inflicted a great deal of destruction there.
http://www.joe-offer.com/folkinfo/songs/525.html

O.K. I thought as I read that that it had the feel of a
traditional song, and then reading the discussion, I see that it was, at
least in part. Not one which I ever remember hearing, however.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24736216@N07/2462391079/
The inside of the wall is covered with carved signatures, some by very
old historical and literary figures. I recognized those of the writers
Achim von Arnim and Clemens Brentano, but didn't find Mark Twain's.

http://www.examiner.com/article/on-t...-ob-der-tauber
"The sad anecdote to this tale is that the mayor died minutes later,
presumably from a combination of alcohol poisoning and kidney
failure."

An interesting story, as is the one about the "faithful wives".

The glockenspiel (clock-play) is an animated clock that acts out the
scene.
Many of the tales end on a sad, Kafkaesque note.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weltschmerz

This was my favorite:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dettelbach
I stumbled onto it before it became a tourist attraction, when
Americans were a novelty.

It does look pretty and intersting.

The very helpful photo shop owner who set me up was later exposed
as a
Soviet spy.

Of course! Would that not be likely for anyone very helpful to
GIs near an Army base in Germany at that time? :-)

If anyone asked, I said I repaired office equipment, and never took
color pix that might have revealed where I went on repair calls.

Good cover.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-08-03, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2013-08-02, Jim Wilkins wrote:

I put together a very compact no-darkroom film developing kit,

O.K. Changing bag, developing tank, and bottles for the
chemicals -- and running water for the developing.

The hard part was loading 16mm Minolta film onto the spiral
developing
tank reel by feel in the bag.

16mm film is a pain. I've done it -- including developing it by
the see-saw method in trays. First time I did it, when the timer
went
off, I nearly threw it up into the pipes in the ceiling. That was a
*loud* timer. (A wind-up one which was started by pushing a lever to
the right and down. :-)

Wherever it jumped the track it
touched
another turn and didn't develop properly.

Been there. Mostly with the plastic-reeled tanks. Some of them
might have been a bit easier to deal with it. The two flanges could
be
rotated a few degrees relative to each other and would feed the film
in
a little at a time. But I'm not sure whether those particular tanks
could be adjusted down to 16mm size. I usually used the Nikor
stainless
steel tanks and welded wire reels -- easier to dry quickly to get
another batch done in an evening. And loading film into a still wet
reel is asking for trouble.

I learned to judge and
preset exposure and distance so I could shoot with my hand down at
my
side, or at right angles to the direction I was pointing the
Pentax.

A 16mm Minolta held at the same time as the Pentax. Intersting
approach.

As for preset exposure and focus -- I tended to frequently meter
and adjust the exposure of the camera so I could get shots off
more quickly when the opportunity presented itself. (These days,
the
Nikon D300s (and even the D70 before it) has fast enough
auto-exposure
so that is not necessary. Manual exposure for when you want precise
control -- depth of field from aperture vs motion stopping/showing
form
shutter speed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunny_16_rule

As for the Loony 11 rule, the moon is in full daylight but it looks
odd if you expose it properly.

Indoors I used 1/60 at f/4 for Tri-X in typical 500 lux office
lighting, or on stage with all the lights on as for the curtain call,
unless the meter said otherwise.

I've gotten good hand-held shots as slow as 1/15 by holding the camera
upside down, braced against my forehead instead of my nose. I was a
student filmmaker's technician in college and had some practical
experience with difficult conditions.


So -- you did have some way to print in there. No enlarging,
probably, but with large enough negatives, contact prints do a lot
of
what you need.

I had a simple collapsible enlarger that took lenses from my old
Leica
III.

O.K. *that* requires at least a darkenable room, if not a
made-for-the-purpose darkroom.

I did run the post photo lab, which at least had no windows, a
safelight, running water and ten times the cabinet storage it needed
for photo supplies. When I was alone with the lights off I tried not
to imagine what might have happened in the dungeon-like cellar of a
WW2 German army barracks.

Leica lenses should have been fairly easy to find there. :-)

Not really. I found a wide-angle in Munich and a portrait-length
telephoto in Zurich, that's all. The US is MUCH better for collecting
old goodies.

The lens that came with the enlarger was good enough for ordinary
prints. I did publicity shots for the USO theater productions and
dunking-booth target portraits of all the officers for a carnival they
put on. The Colonel was the most requested and I had to print several
extra batches. We troopies couldn't get into the throwing line because
the officers bent it into a closed circle. We satisfied our
frustrations with tickets to sledge-hammer an old car.

Leitz was trying to retire the old III series by buying them up. They
were good about reconditioning mine, though, and I got to tour the
Wetzlar factory.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._50mm_f1.5.jpg

They aren't all that valuable:
http://www.collectiblecameras.com/home.php?cat=410

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rothenburg_BW_4.JPG

That is an intersting looking building -- with some history,
I'll bet.

Every place had some history.

In particular, I was referring to that building, which looks as
though it was much older than the surrounding area, and when the
road
was put though, just enough was cut out of one corner to allow cars
and
reasonable sized trucks to pass, while retaining as much of the
building
as possible. And this suggests that either the building had
historical
importance, or the owner at that time had significant political
clout, or
it would have just been knocked down totally.

Their streets don't accommodate cars; their cars and trucks fit the
narrow streets wherever we didn't initiate mandatory urban renewal.
American vehicles didn't fit.

Rothenburg retained its condition because its economy declined and
renovation stopped, 400 years ago. Many smaller towns looked similar,
the slightly larger ones were bombed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Swaebisch_Hall.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing...n_World_War_II

The road on the left is the main route through town that follows the
top edge of the river valley. The right-hand one slants down to the
river. I suspect the Romans might have first paved them over
prehistoric footpaths.

All the buildings probably have that timber-frame (Fachwerk)
construction but after the war covering it with beige or pastel stucco
became the fashion. Look at the upper floors above the white bench.
jsw

"Jim Wilkins" on Fri, 2 Aug 2013 09:29:38 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .

I would also wonder how many of the troops were of the opinion "I
don't want to be here, I was drafted, I don't like it here" and
refuse
to exploit the generosity of their Uncle Sam who sent him someplace
for a year or two where other people will save up for years just to
drop in for a week?

The alternative was Vietnam. To my considerable surprise some people
preferred it there, mainly minorities who told me how much they
enjoyed being treated like rich mainstream Americans in Saigon.

I knew a guy who volunteered for Nam, from Germany. Figured
they'd send him eventually, so he went.

OTOH, I was in Turkey and Spain before the end of the draft,
Germany after the draftees should have finished their 2 years and got
out.

Though we didn't lack for bitter draftee truck drivers a lot of the
Signal Corps had enlisted to get into a school and learn a useful
skill before the draft sent them to the Infantry. Each base was a
relatively self-reliant closed commune with most of the needs of
civilian society.

That is a "problem". Coming from Turkey - Spain was the land of
the Big BX, coming from Spain, Germany was "Little America".

We could do everything but grow food, either in base
or when deployed to some isolated frozen mountaintop radio relay site.
That's where you learn what your real "needs" are, just food, water,
clothing and shelter. Heat isn't one of them.

Except for Heidelberg the Army bases weren't in cosmopolitan tourist
destinations. They were old German Kasernes, some dating from
Frederick the Great, with WW2 plumbing at best. The Germans there were
indifferent and not too accommodating to non German speakers.

Not unusual, regardless of the language. One has to remember as
well, the Kaserne had been there a long while, first with soldiers who
could speak the language, then with soldiers who couldn't. And they
all wanted the same things. At least the Deutscher Soldaten had some
cooths.

I'm far
from a fluent speaker but could understand it pretty well. I had taken
German classes aimed at reading chemical and mathematical texts and
was better at vocabulary than grammar.

When I was there, that was me. Understood it better than I spoke
it - which is still not saying a great deal.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" on Fri, 2 Aug 2013
09:29:38 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

OTOH, I was in Turkey and Spain before the end of the draft,
Germany after the draftees should have finished their 2 years and
got
out.
...
That is a "problem". Coming from Turkey - Spain was the land of
the Big BX, coming from Spain, Germany was "Little America".

No one I've talked to thought much of Turkey. Did you have the
opportunity to sightsee in Spain?

...The Germans there were
indifferent and not too accommodating to non German speakers.

Not unusual, regardless of the language. One has to remember as
well, the Kaserne had been there a long while, first with soldiers
who
could speak the language, then with soldiers who couldn't. And they
all wanted the same things. At least the Deutscher Soldaten had
some
cooths.

The electronic techs I worked and partied with were well-behaved
Latinos. It was almost exclusively the uneducated black GIs, the truck
drivers, who caused trouble with the Germans and with the black NCOs
who were left to deal with them, as any white attempt to discipline
them exploded into a racial discrimination incident. This is why the
Army had to overlook drug use, which then lost its allure as rebellion
against authority. I saw the 80/20 rule in action, 20% of the people
do 80% of the work and support the useless, whining, drug-addled
remainder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

We made friends with the bar girls and the bouncer and sometimes were
invited to their apartments to chat after the bar closed at 3AM. I won
a bet with the bouncer by memorizing and reciting a long German poem
similar to Poe's "The Raven". While I was practicing it in another
restaurant a Swiss professor noticed the oddity of an American soldier
(short haircut) reading a German poetry book and came over to talk.
Heidelberg was fun.

jsw

"Jim Wilkins" on Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:25:40 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
"Jim Wilkins" on Fri, 2 Aug 2013
09:29:38 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

OTOH, I was in Turkey and Spain before the end of the draft,
Germany after the draftees should have finished their 2 years and
got
out.
...
That is a "problem". Coming from Turkey - Spain was the land of
the Big BX, coming from Spain, Germany was "Little America".

No one I've talked to thought much of Turkey.

I enjoyed it. OTOH, I was a high school sophomore, first time out
of the States, the downstairs neighbors were an Army Colonel, and I
dated his daughter three months. Such a deal!

Did you have the
opportunity to sightsee in Spain?

A "bit" - I saw a lot of the sights in and around Madrid - I could
take the subway. My being a high school student kind of limited my
other options. At least for me. I had friends who would bum nickels
and dimes - or Peseta equivalents, on a Friday, then after classes
hitch hike for the coast with two mille (2,000 Pesetas~$25). Which in
those days, was enough for dinner for four at a good (4 fork)
restaurant. Or a weekend on the coast, if you weren't too picky about
sleeping inside.

...The Germans there were
indifferent and not too accommodating to non German speakers.

Not unusual, regardless of the language. One has to remember as
well, the Kaserne had been there a long while, first with soldiers who
could speak the language, then with soldiers who couldn't. And they
all wanted the same things. At least the Deutscher Soldaten had some
cooths.

The electronic techs I worked and partied with were well-behaved
Latinos. It was almost exclusively the uneducated black GIs, the truck
drivers, who caused trouble with the Germans and with the black NCOs
who were left to deal with them, as any white attempt to discipline
them exploded into a racial discrimination incident. This is why the
Army had to overlook drug use, which then lost its allure as rebellion
against authority. I saw the 80/20 rule in action, 20% of the people
do 80% of the work and support the useless, whining, drug-addled
remainder.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

We made friends with the bar girls and the bouncer and sometimes were
invited to their apartments to chat after the bar closed at 3AM. I won
a bet with the bouncer by memorizing and reciting a long German poem
similar to Poe's "The Raven". While I was practicing it in another
restaurant a Swiss professor noticed the oddity of an American soldier
(short haircut) reading a German poetry book and came over to talk.
Heidelberg was fun.

My experience, such as it was, showed that an honest attempt to be
friendly, and recognize you are the auslander, goes a long way.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On 2013-08-04, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message

[ ... ]

As for preset exposure and focus -- I tended to frequently meter
and adjust the exposure of the camera so I could get shots off
more quickly when the opportunity presented itself. (These days,
the
Nikon D300s (and even the D70 before it) has fast enough
auto-exposure
so that is not necessary. Manual exposure for when you want precise
control -- depth of field from aperture vs motion stopping/showing
form
shutter speed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunny_16_rule

Right -- something which I tend to forget. My first serious
camera was a Zeiss Ikon "Ikonta 520" (16 exposures on either 120 or 620
roll film, and I carried an exposure meter on a leash around my neck,
because I tended to take shots in uncertain light indoors.

The Contaflex II (my first new camera) had built-in metering, as
did some of the later ones, but until I started using the Nikon-F with
the Photomic head, I depended on carrying a meter. (Much of that time,
it was two Mirandas -- the 'F' with the separate meter, and the
"Sensormat" with the built-in meter. Sometimes I would transfer
metering info between the two except when one was loaded with Tri-X and
the other with Ektrachrome-X. :-)

As for the Loony 11 rule, the moon is in full daylight but it looks
odd if you expose it properly.

Too high an albedo, I think.

Indoors I used 1/60 at f/4 for Tri-X in typical 500 lux office
lighting, or on stage with all the lights on as for the curtain call,
unless the meter said otherwise.

I've gotten good hand-held shots as slow as 1/15 by holding the camera
upside down, braced against my forehead instead of my nose. I was a
student filmmaker's technician in college and had some practical
experience with difficult conditions.

Hmm ... with movie film, that would require a bit of tricky
handling, because if projected as shot (but rotated so the images would
be right-site up), the motion would be backwards. :-)

My own preference with 35mm is left hand cradling the barrel of
the lens, right hand holding the body against my cheek and nose with eye
at the finder, and left elbow tucked into my stomach.

So -- you did have some way to print in there. No enlarging,
probably, but with large enough negatives, contact prints do a lot
of
what you need.

I had a simple collapsible enlarger that took lenses from my old
Leica
III.

O.K. *that* requires at least a darkenable room, if not a
made-for-the-purpose darkroom.

And -- I was thinking in terms of the portable photo lab you
mentioned earlier.

I did run the post photo lab, which at least had no windows, a
safelight, running water and ten times the cabinet storage it needed
for photo supplies. When I was alone with the lights off I tried not
to imagine what might have happened in the dungeon-like cellar of a
WW2 German army barracks.

I guess that it could have been spooky. Then again, they may
have simply tried to find places hidden enough to enjoy a drink or two. :-)

Leica lenses should have been fairly easy to find there. :-)

Not really. I found a wide-angle in Munich and a portrait-length
telephoto in Zurich, that's all. The US is MUCH better for collecting
old goodies.

O.K.

The lens that came with the enlarger was good enough for ordinary
prints. I did publicity shots for the USO theater productions and
dunking-booth target portraits of all the officers for a carnival they
put on. The Colonel was the most requested and I had to print several
extra batches. We troopies couldn't get into the throwing line because
the officers bent it into a closed circle. We satisfied our
frustrations with tickets to sledge-hammer an old car.

:-)

Leitz was trying to retire the old III series by buying them up. They
were good about reconditioning mine, though, and I got to tour the
Wetzlar factory.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._50mm_f1.5.jpg

That one looks post-WW-II to me. (But then, I didn't ask when
you were there. :-)

They aren't all that valuable:
http://www.collectiblecameras.com/home.php?cat=410

I'll stay clear of that page. I already have a Zeiss Contax-IIa
and a Russian Kiev clone of it with somewhat less range of shutter
speeds. Lenses interchage between them, though. :-)

[ ... ]

In particular, I was referring to that building, which looks as
though it was much older than the surrounding area, and when the
road
was put though, just enough was cut out of one corner to allow cars
and
reasonable sized trucks to pass, while retaining as much of the
building
as possible. And this suggests that either the building had
historical
importance, or the owner at that time had significant political
clout, or
it would have just been knocked down totally.

Their streets don't accommodate cars; their cars and trucks fit the
narrow streets wherever we didn't initiate mandatory urban renewal.
American vehicles didn't fit.

:-)

Rothenburg retained its condition because its economy declined and
renovation stopped, 400 years ago. Many smaller towns looked similar,
the slightly larger ones were bombed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Swaebisch_Hall.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing...n_World_War_II

There are advantages to not being big enough to be industrial in
wartime. :-)

It really hurts to see that damage. But then I think of the
buzz-bombs hitting London and don't feel quite as bad.

The road on the left is the main route through town that follows the
top edge of the river valley. The right-hand one slants down to the
river. I suspect the Romans might have first paved them over
prehistoric footpaths.

:-)

All the buildings probably have that timber-frame (Fachwerk)
construction

Different name for it in old England, but same principle.

but after the war covering it with beige or pastel stucco
became the fashion. Look at the upper floors above the white bench.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---