On Mon, 13 May 2013 20:53:43 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

As Ive mentioned a week or so ago...I have a Impco CA 50 Carby and a
Mod J evaporator on my forklift.

It has a seperate tube to engage the "lockout:" part of the
evaporator..IE..if there is suction on the seperate tube...it then
feeds propane to the carby.

I discovered today..that if I push and HOLD the "primer" button..it
will run just fine.

So that lead me to think the "lockout" part of the evaporator was not
working.

So I sucked on the hose..and nothing happened. HOWEVER....If I BLOW in
the hose (just a few pounds..and no smart comments here
thankyouveddymuch!!)..it delivers propane to the carby and it runs
fine.

What the ****?????

I can detect little or no suction at the "lockout" tube attachment on
the carby...and no blow either. I do have good suction at the
entrance to the carby while its cranking.......

What the **** (again)????

Do I have a problem with the evaporator..or the carby?

Both??

No suction noted by finger tip on the suction line at the carby.

Thrice WTF?


All the seals and diaphrams are ok, with no leaks noted. Both the
carby and the evaporator appear to be nominal...visually.

Is there a way I can bypass the "lockout" portion of the evaporator
and simply run it that way? I do have a 12 solenoid that I can add to
shut off the fuel in case I leave the tank turned on over night.

Im rather lost here.....which since the stroke..is something Ive had
some experience with..damnit.....

The diaprhram on the inside of the rear cover on the Mod J has a
triangular bit of sheet steel attached to it. It rocks on a piviot
point on the rear cover and pushes down on a spring loaded valve. This
bit of triangular steel was bent over the pivot point. All the
diagrams show it to be flat..so I carefuly flattened it out before
discovering the above data..but yesterday it DID run with the primer
button depressed.....if that helps in the diagnosis.

Over the years...Its gotten worse and worse...I had to prime it (push
the button) to start it..often several times before it would fire up
and run ..so I suspect this is part of that ongoing issue. Ive seen
few forklifts be a problem to start on propane when there was good
compression and good spark.

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thing only has less than 1800 hrs on the Hobbs meter...but it was
made..I think..in the early 90s.

Gunner

Nobody?


--
"You guess the truth hurts?

Really?

"Hurt" aint the word.

For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.
Raid® to a cockroach.
Sheriff Brody to a shark
Bush to a Liberal

The truth doesn't just hurt. It's painful, like a red hot poker shoved
up their ass. Like sliding down a hundred foot razor blade using their
dick as a brake.

They HATE the truth."

On Tue, 14 May 2013 20:11:44 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 13 May 2013 20:53:43 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

As Ive mentioned a week or so ago...I have a Impco CA 50 Carby and a
Mod J evaporator on my forklift.

It has a seperate tube to engage the "lockout:" part of the
evaporator..IE..if there is suction on the seperate tube...it then
feeds propane to the carby.

I discovered today..that if I push and HOLD the "primer" button..it
will run just fine.

So that lead me to think the "lockout" part of the evaporator was not
working.

So I sucked on the hose..and nothing happened. HOWEVER....If I BLOW in
the hose (just a few pounds..and no smart comments here
thankyouveddymuch!!)..it delivers propane to the carby and it runs
fine.

What the ****?????

I can detect little or no suction at the "lockout" tube attachment on
the carby...and no blow either. I do have good suction at the
entrance to the carby while its cranking.......

What the **** (again)????

Do I have a problem with the evaporator..or the carby?

Both??

No suction noted by finger tip on the suction line at the carby.

Thrice WTF?


All the seals and diaphrams are ok, with no leaks noted. Both the
carby and the evaporator appear to be nominal...visually.

Is there a way I can bypass the "lockout" portion of the evaporator
and simply run it that way? I do have a 12 solenoid that I can add to
shut off the fuel in case I leave the tank turned on over night.

Im rather lost here.....which since the stroke..is something Ive had
some experience with..damnit.....

The diaprhram on the inside of the rear cover on the Mod J has a
triangular bit of sheet steel attached to it. It rocks on a piviot
point on the rear cover and pushes down on a spring loaded valve. This
bit of triangular steel was bent over the pivot point. All the
diagrams show it to be flat..so I carefuly flattened it out before
discovering the above data..but yesterday it DID run with the primer
button depressed.....if that helps in the diagnosis.

Over the years...Its gotten worse and worse...I had to prime it (push
the button) to start it..often several times before it would fire up
and run ..so I suspect this is part of that ongoing issue. Ive seen
few forklifts be a problem to start on propane when there was good
compression and good spark.

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thing only has less than 1800 hrs on the Hobbs meter...but it was
made..I think..in the early 90s.

Gunner

Nobody?

Do I look like I have a Forklifts-R-Us sticker on my forehead?

Tried alt.rec.crafts.propane.forklift.carburettor.repair yet?
(Must be Brit-based.

--
The Road to Success...is always under construction.
--anon

On Tue, 14 May 2013 20:11:44 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 13 May 2013 20:53:43 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

As Ive mentioned a week or so ago...I have a Impco CA 50 Carby and a
Mod J evaporator on my forklift.

It has a seperate tube to engage the "lockout:" part of the
evaporator..IE..if there is suction on the seperate tube...it then
feeds propane to the carby.

I discovered today..that if I push and HOLD the "primer" button..it
will run just fine.

So that lead me to think the "lockout" part of the evaporator was not
working.

So I sucked on the hose..and nothing happened. HOWEVER....If I BLOW in
the hose (just a few pounds..and no smart comments here
thankyouveddymuch!!)..it delivers propane to the carby and it runs
fine.

What the ****?????

I can detect little or no suction at the "lockout" tube attachment on
the carby...and no blow either. I do have good suction at the
entrance to the carby while its cranking.......

What the **** (again)????

Do I have a problem with the evaporator..or the carby?

Both??

No suction noted by finger tip on the suction line at the carby.

Thrice WTF?


All the seals and diaphrams are ok, with no leaks noted. Both the
carby and the evaporator appear to be nominal...visually.

Is there a way I can bypass the "lockout" portion of the evaporator
and simply run it that way? I do have a 12 solenoid that I can add to
shut off the fuel in case I leave the tank turned on over night.

Im rather lost here.....which since the stroke..is something Ive had
some experience with..damnit.....

The diaprhram on the inside of the rear cover on the Mod J has a
triangular bit of sheet steel attached to it. It rocks on a piviot
point on the rear cover and pushes down on a spring loaded valve. This
bit of triangular steel was bent over the pivot point. All the
diagrams show it to be flat..so I carefuly flattened it out before
discovering the above data..but yesterday it DID run with the primer
button depressed.....if that helps in the diagnosis.

Over the years...Its gotten worse and worse...I had to prime it (push
the button) to start it..often several times before it would fire up
and run ..so I suspect this is part of that ongoing issue. Ive seen
few forklifts be a problem to start on propane when there was good
compression and good spark.

Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This thing only has less than 1800 hrs on the Hobbs meter...but it was
made..I think..in the early 90s.

Gunner

Nobody?

I think I'd look at two areas. (1) what does the primer do that allows
the thing to run and (2) where does that vacuum/pressure line connect
to at the engine end.
From that you ought to be able to figure out what is going on and
correct it.

--
Cheers,

John B.

Gunner Asch wrote:
snip
Nobody?

Doggonit I'm a "carburetor modifier" even and
I have no-idea what you're talkin' about, G. :/

Alvin in AZ

On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:04:41 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
snip
Nobody?

Doggonit I'm a "carburetor modifier" even and
I have no-idea what you're talkin' about, G. :/

Alvin in AZ

What...I didnt make it clear? My forklift has a carberator..and a
pressure regulator (normally called an evaporator). It has what is
called a "lockout" in it. This lockout keeps the evaporator from
giving any fuel to the carby..unless there is suction on a port on the
body of the evaporator. Just a few ounces of suction opens the
evaporator and allows it to supply fuel to the carb. The suction is
provided by a connection from the carby to the evaporator via a short
hose..so when you crank the engine..a little bit of the suction that
happens in the carb is also applied to the evaporator through that
hose..letting propane flow into the carb..and then starting the
engine.

What I have is no suction on the carborator port..and ..and..when I
apply suction to the evaporator..nothing flows. Only if I apply
PRESSURE to the evaporator does fuel flow. Blow into the suction
(vacuum) line..and it opens the valve and voila..fuel.

There is a button on the evaporator unit that is a "primer". When you
press it..it does something inside and it allows fuel to flow into the
carb without suction. So you dont have to crank it for 10-15 seconds
before the engine starts. Press the button..it pushed out propane
directly to the carborator. Kinda like a choke or gas shutoff
override (which it actually is)..it floods the carb with a big blast
of propane so it doesnt have to crank very hard before it starts.

So when I press the "primer" button..and hold it..the engine starts
right up, but the moment I let it go..the engine dies because the
evaporator stops allowing fuel to flow to the carb.

So I have something wierd with the evaporator/carby..two things...it
requires pressure to allow gas to flow out of the evaporator. when it
should be a vaccum......and the carby isnt supplying any vaccum..or
not enough.

Many of these engines dont have an evaporator with a "lockout"...that
vaccum line that allows propane to flow only if there is suction on
that port. They use a electrically operated valve. Turn on the
key..and it opens up the line from the propane tank to the
evaporator..which allows fuel to immediately flow through it.

The evaporator btw...does several things...it takes the 380 psi from
the propane supply tank..and regulates it down to about .5- 1.5 pound
pressure...and because there is a very cold liquid flowing through
it...has radiator coolant running through the back of it to keep it
warm and not freeze over. When the coolant gets hot..it heats up this
evaporator pretty good...and make the change from a liquid to a gas
even better.

Is that clear enough now?

Shrug...best I can tell you.

Gunner, on his way to LA
--
"You guess the truth hurts?

Really?

"Hurt" aint the word.

For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.
Raid® to a cockroach.
Sheriff Brody to a shark
Bush to a Liberal

The truth doesn't just hurt. It's painful, like a red hot poker shoved
up their ass. Like sliding down a hundred foot razor blade using their
dick as a brake.

They HATE the truth."

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:04:41 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
snip
Nobody?
Doggonit I'm a "carburetor modifier" even and
I have no-idea what you're talkin' about, G. :/

Alvin in AZ

What...I didnt make it clear? My forklift has a carberator..and a
pressure regulator (normally called an evaporator). It has what is
called a "lockout" in it. This lockout keeps the evaporator from
giving any fuel to the carby..unless there is suction on a port on the
body of the evaporator. Just a few ounces of suction opens the
evaporator and allows it to supply fuel to the carb. The suction is
provided by a connection from the carby to the evaporator via a short
hose..so when you crank the engine..a little bit of the suction that
happens in the carb is also applied to the evaporator through that
hose..letting propane flow into the carb..and then starting the
engine.

What I have is no suction on the carborator port..and ..and..when I
apply suction to the evaporator..nothing flows. Only if I apply
PRESSURE to the evaporator does fuel flow. Blow into the suction
(vacuum) line..and it opens the valve and voila..fuel.

There is a button on the evaporator unit that is a "primer". When you
press it..it does something inside and it allows fuel to flow into the
carb without suction. So you dont have to crank it for 10-15 seconds
before the engine starts. Press the button..it pushed out propane
directly to the carborator. Kinda like a choke or gas shutoff
override (which it actually is)..it floods the carb with a big blast
of propane so it doesnt have to crank very hard before it starts.

So when I press the "primer" button..and hold it..the engine starts
right up, but the moment I let it go..the engine dies because the
evaporator stops allowing fuel to flow to the carb.

So I have something wierd with the evaporator/carby..two things...it
requires pressure to allow gas to flow out of the evaporator. when it
should be a vaccum......and the carby isnt supplying any vaccum..or
not enough.

Many of these engines dont have an evaporator with a "lockout"...that
vaccum line that allows propane to flow only if there is suction on
that port. They use a electrically operated valve. Turn on the
key..and it opens up the line from the propane tank to the
evaporator..which allows fuel to immediately flow through it.

The evaporator btw...does several things...it takes the 380 psi from
the propane supply tank..and regulates it down to about .5- 1.5 pound
pressure...and because there is a very cold liquid flowing through
it...has radiator coolant running through the back of it to keep it
warm and not freeze over. When the coolant gets hot..it heats up this
evaporator pretty good...and make the change from a liquid to a gas
even better.

Is that clear enough now?

Shrug...best I can tell you.

Gunner, on his way to LA
--

I talked to a friend about this the other day. He asked if you had a
picture of the unit. That they are usually real simple to work on but
that adjusting them without a good water column gauge is a PIA. He asked
if yours had ever been adjusted?

He did mention that a good replacement if yours is bad would probably be
a Beam T60.

--
Steve W.

On Wed, 15 May 2013 13:17:21 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:04:41 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
snip
Nobody?

Doggonit I'm a "carburetor modifier" even and
I have no-idea what you're talkin' about, G. :/

Alvin in AZ

What...I didnt make it clear? My forklift has a carberator..and a
pressure regulator (normally called an evaporator). It has what is
called a "lockout" in it. This lockout keeps the evaporator from
giving any fuel to the carby..unless there is suction on a port on the
body of the evaporator. Just a few ounces of suction opens the
evaporator and allows it to supply fuel to the carb. The suction is
provided by a connection from the carby to the evaporator via a short
hose..so when you crank the engine..a little bit of the suction that
happens in the carb is also applied to the evaporator through that
hose..letting propane flow into the carb..and then starting the
engine.

What I have is no suction on the carborator port..and ..and..when I
apply suction to the evaporator..nothing flows. Only if I apply
PRESSURE to the evaporator does fuel flow. Blow into the suction
(vacuum) line..and it opens the valve and voila..fuel.

There is a button on the evaporator unit that is a "primer". When you
press it..it does something inside and it allows fuel to flow into the
carb without suction. So you dont have to crank it for 10-15 seconds
before the engine starts. Press the button..it pushed out propane
directly to the carborator. Kinda like a choke or gas shutoff
override (which it actually is)..it floods the carb with a big blast
of propane so it doesnt have to crank very hard before it starts.

So when I press the "primer" button..and hold it..the engine starts
right up, but the moment I let it go..the engine dies because the
evaporator stops allowing fuel to flow to the carb.

Hey, Schmuck! ;-P Have you tried calling IMPCO and asking for the
service instructions, parts list, exploded diagrams, etc? Or Googling
for them?

Sometimes they deliberately don't put the older items that had many
upgrades and revisions over the years on the Web and you have to ask
(because they'd rather sell you the newer revised version that usually
works better - and/or doesn't have a dangerous flaw when it fails...)
but it's always worth a look first.

And if it's dangerous to fix, they'll usually tell you, and you can
order a new one - sometimes for free or super cheap since the old one
is now defective. "Silent Recall"

If it's fixable, they should have a rebuild kit available. Pop it
open and replace the bad diaphraghm or weak spring.

It's probably something stupid simple - you Fix, you can handle stupid
simple. It's just outside your immediate field.

-- Bruce --

On Wed, 15 May 2013 16:56:02 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:04:41 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
snip
Nobody?
Doggonit I'm a "carburetor modifier" even and
I have no-idea what you're talkin' about, G. :/

Alvin in AZ

What...I didnt make it clear? My forklift has a carberator..and a
pressure regulator (normally called an evaporator). It has what is
called a "lockout" in it. This lockout keeps the evaporator from
giving any fuel to the carby..unless there is suction on a port on the
body of the evaporator. Just a few ounces of suction opens the
evaporator and allows it to supply fuel to the carb. The suction is
provided by a connection from the carby to the evaporator via a short
hose..so when you crank the engine..a little bit of the suction that
happens in the carb is also applied to the evaporator through that
hose..letting propane flow into the carb..and then starting the
engine.

What I have is no suction on the carborator port..and ..and..when I
apply suction to the evaporator..nothing flows. Only if I apply
PRESSURE to the evaporator does fuel flow. Blow into the suction
(vacuum) line..and it opens the valve and voila..fuel.

There is a button on the evaporator unit that is a "primer". When you
press it..it does something inside and it allows fuel to flow into the
carb without suction. So you dont have to crank it for 10-15 seconds
before the engine starts. Press the button..it pushed out propane
directly to the carborator. Kinda like a choke or gas shutoff
override (which it actually is)..it floods the carb with a big blast
of propane so it doesnt have to crank very hard before it starts.

So when I press the "primer" button..and hold it..the engine starts
right up, but the moment I let it go..the engine dies because the
evaporator stops allowing fuel to flow to the carb.

So I have something wierd with the evaporator/carby..two things...it
requires pressure to allow gas to flow out of the evaporator. when it
should be a vaccum......and the carby isnt supplying any vaccum..or
not enough.

Many of these engines dont have an evaporator with a "lockout"...that
vaccum line that allows propane to flow only if there is suction on
that port. They use a electrically operated valve. Turn on the
key..and it opens up the line from the propane tank to the
evaporator..which allows fuel to immediately flow through it.

The evaporator btw...does several things...it takes the 380 psi from
the propane supply tank..and regulates it down to about .5- 1.5 pound
pressure...and because there is a very cold liquid flowing through
it...has radiator coolant running through the back of it to keep it
warm and not freeze over. When the coolant gets hot..it heats up this
evaporator pretty good...and make the change from a liquid to a gas
even better.

Is that clear enough now?

Shrug...best I can tell you.

Gunner, on his way to LA
--

I talked to a friend about this the other day. He asked if you had a
picture of the unit. That they are usually real simple to work on but
that adjusting them without a good water column gauge is a PIA. He asked
if yours had ever been adjusted?

He did mention that a good replacement if yours is bad would probably be
a Beam T60.

The evaporator is an IMPCO Mod J. A buddy in LA gave me one today and
Ill hook it up this weekend and see if it fixes it.


--
"You guess the truth hurts?

Really?

"Hurt" aint the word.

For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.
Raid® to a cockroach.
Sheriff Brody to a shark
Bush to a Liberal

The truth doesn't just hurt. It's painful, like a red hot poker shoved
up their ass. Like sliding down a hundred foot razor blade using their
dick as a brake.

They HATE the truth."

On Fri, 17 May 2013 09:10:35 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Wed, 15 May 2013 13:17:21 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 15 May 2013 19:04:41 +0000 (UTC), wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
snip
Nobody?

Doggonit I'm a "carburetor modifier" even and
I have no-idea what you're talkin' about, G. :/

Alvin in AZ

What...I didnt make it clear? My forklift has a carberator..and a
pressure regulator (normally called an evaporator). It has what is
called a "lockout" in it. This lockout keeps the evaporator from
giving any fuel to the carby..unless there is suction on a port on the
body of the evaporator. Just a few ounces of suction opens the
evaporator and allows it to supply fuel to the carb. The suction is
provided by a connection from the carby to the evaporator via a short
hose..so when you crank the engine..a little bit of the suction that
happens in the carb is also applied to the evaporator through that
hose..letting propane flow into the carb..and then starting the
engine.

What I have is no suction on the carborator port..and ..and..when I
apply suction to the evaporator..nothing flows. Only if I apply
PRESSURE to the evaporator does fuel flow. Blow into the suction
(vacuum) line..and it opens the valve and voila..fuel.

There is a button on the evaporator unit that is a "primer". When you
press it..it does something inside and it allows fuel to flow into the
carb without suction. So you dont have to crank it for 10-15 seconds
before the engine starts. Press the button..it pushed out propane
directly to the carborator. Kinda like a choke or gas shutoff
override (which it actually is)..it floods the carb with a big blast
of propane so it doesnt have to crank very hard before it starts.

So when I press the "primer" button..and hold it..the engine starts
right up, but the moment I let it go..the engine dies because the
evaporator stops allowing fuel to flow to the carb.

Hey, Schmuck! ;-P Have you tried calling IMPCO and asking for the
service instructions, parts list, exploded diagrams, etc? Or Googling
for them?

Yes.


Sometimes they deliberately don't put the older items that had many
upgrades and revisions over the years on the Web and you have to ask
(because they'd rather sell you the newer revised version that usually
works better - and/or doesn't have a dangerous flaw when it fails...)
but it's always worth a look first.

Indeed. Done it.

And if it's dangerous to fix, they'll usually tell you, and you can
order a new one - sometimes for free or super cheap since the old one
is now defective. "Silent Recall"

If it's fixable, they should have a rebuild kit available. Pop it
open and replace the bad diaphraghm or weak spring.

Rebuild kits are on Ebay for $28. Carborators however are $100+

It's probably something stupid simple - you Fix, you can handle stupid
simple. It's just outside your immediate field.

-- Bruce --

Indeed. Its a whole new world. Fuel, fire, compression...got 2 of
them..the first....shrug.


--
"You guess the truth hurts?

Really?

"Hurt" aint the word.

For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.
Raid® to a cockroach.
Sheriff Brody to a shark
Bush to a Liberal

The truth doesn't just hurt. It's painful, like a red hot poker shoved
up their ass. Like sliding down a hundred foot razor blade using their
dick as a brake.

They HATE the truth."