At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

On Oct 21, 7:34*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. *Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. *I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? *Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else
but working on the Escort. *So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. *Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? *Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. *It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

If you decide to rebuild the engine yourself you are much better off
bringing the block to a quality automotive machine shop and letting
them clean, bore and hone it. It's not very expensive and if they are
a good shop they can do a far better job than you can.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 21:33:50 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

You cannot afford the hone required to take out the damage to the cyl
and fit an oversize piston. First oversize is likely 10 thou over -
typical honing (with a VERY expensive Sunnen type fixed hone) is in
the order of a couple thou. Get the block bored for oversize pistons,
and finish honed to proper fit. A LOT cheaper than buying and using a
fixed hone.

Been a mechanic since 1969.

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...
On Oct 21, 7:34 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or
so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed
feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something
else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the
valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons
of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

If you decide to rebuild the engine yourself you are much better off
bringing the block to a quality automotive machine shop and letting
them clean, bore and hone it. It's not very expensive and if they are
a good shop they can do a far better job than you can.

And you're a dick .

Roger , get your hands on a rigid Sunnen hone , one that has the rack type
feed you mentioned above . I've bored several Harley cylinders with mine
with great results . You've got the advantage of a lump of metal that you
won't have to bolt into a fixture to hold it still ... plus the fact that
you can hone to a fit that meets *YOUR* standards instead of whatever mood
the boring machine guy happens to be in on that day . I'm bettin' that he
ain't going to take the time to fit your pistons individually to .00075" . I
will agree with Yonnie that you might want to have a shop clean it in their
dip tank , unless you want to do like I did with my wife's car motor and
take it to the car wash . BTW , from your comments above you apparently have
the skills to do this job yourself ... and a 50/50 mix of diesel/kero and
ATF makes a great honing fluid . And don't forget the post-hone washout !!
--
Snag

On Oct 21, 8:26*pm, "Terry Coombs" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in message

...
On Oct 21, 7:34 pm, "RogerN" wrote:









At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or
so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed
feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something
else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the
valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons
of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN
If you decide to rebuild the engine yourself you are much better off

bringing the block to a quality automotive machine shop and letting
them clean, bore and hone it. It's not very expensive and if they are
a good shop they can do a far better job than you can.

* And you're a dick .

* Roger , get your hands on a rigid Sunnen hone , one that has the rack type
feed you mentioned above . I've bored several Harley cylinders with mine
with great results . You've got the advantage of a lump of metal that you
won't have to bolt into a fixture to hold it still ... plus the fact that
you can hone to a fit that meets *YOUR* standards instead of whatever mood
the boring machine guy happens to be in on that day . I'm bettin' that he
ain't going to take the time to fit your pistons individually to .00075" .. I
will agree with Yonnie that you might want to have a shop clean it in their
dip tank , unless you want to do like I did with my wife's car motor and
take it to the car wash . BTW , from your comments above you apparently have
the skills to do this job yourself ... and a 50/50 mix of diesel/kero and
ATF makes a great honing fluid . And don't forget the post-hone washout !!
--
Snag

**** you asshole. I'm bored and honed more blocks than you ever will
in a commercial automotive machine shop. If you know what to look for
and how to manage the job a boring machine like a Rottler and a Sunnen
CK-10 can do a much better job. There is no real money to be saved
doing it yourself.

On Oct 21, 8:26*pm, "Terry Coombs" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in message

...
On Oct 21, 7:34 pm, "RogerN" wrote:









At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or
so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed
feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something
else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the
valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons
of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN
If you decide to rebuild the engine yourself you are much better off

bringing the block to a quality automotive machine shop and letting
them clean, bore and hone it. It's not very expensive and if they are
a good shop they can do a far better job than you can.

* And you're a dick .

* Roger , get your hands on a rigid Sunnen hone , one that has the rack type
feed you mentioned above . I've bored several Harley cylinders with mine
with great results . You've got the advantage of a lump of metal that you
won't have to bolt into a fixture to hold it still ... plus the fact that
you can hone to a fit that meets *YOUR* standards instead of whatever mood
the boring machine guy happens to be in on that day . I'm bettin' that he
ain't going to take the time to fit your pistons individually to .00075" .. I
will agree with Yonnie that you might want to have a shop clean it in their
dip tank , unless you want to do like I did with my wife's car motor and
take it to the car wash . BTW , from your comments above you apparently have
the skills to do this job yourself ... and a 50/50 mix of diesel/kero and
ATF makes a great honing fluid . And don't forget the post-hone washout !!
--
Snag

"plus the fact that you can hone to a fit that meets *YOUR* standards
instead of whatever mood..."

You are one dumb mother****er. You manage the job by putting in
writing up front what the tolerance of the cylinder bores must be and
then you check them with a quality dial bore gauge before you pay. We
use to have customers who checked our work like this all the time. If
you don't know what you're talking about, and you don't, shut your
****ing mouth. It's not worth the small amount of money you might save
to do it yourself if you don't have the right equipment.

On Oct 21, 8:24*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 21:33:50 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:











At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. *Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. *I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? *Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else
but working on the Escort. *So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. *Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? *Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. *It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

You cannot afford the hone required to take out the damage to the cyl
and fit an oversize piston. First oversize is likely 10 thou over -
typical honing (with a VERY expensive Sunnen type fixed hone) is in
the order of a couple thou. Get the block bored for oversize pistons,
and finish honed to proper fit. A LOT cheaper than buying and using a
fixed hone.

Been a mechanic since 1969.

"You cannot afford the hone required to take out the damage to the cyl
and fit an oversize piston."

Exactly.

"Get the block bored for oversize pistons, and finish honed to proper
fit. A LOT cheaper than buying and using a fixed hone."

Agree. I'll add good ****ing luck trying to hand hone to the kind of
finish a Sunnen CK-10 can give you when done by someone who knows what
they are doing.

On Oct 21, 7:34*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. *Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. *I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? *Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else
but working on the Escort. *So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. *Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? *Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. *It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

If you don't believe me Roger ask someone like Bottleboob. Dollars to
donuts Bottleboob agrees with what I said. It doesn't cost that much
money to have a good shop clean, bore and hone a 4 cylinder. No way in
hell should you try and just hone that block to size. Honing is a
finishing operation that's done after boring.

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may
be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

If you don't believe me Roger ask someone like Bottleboob. Dollars to
donuts Bottleboob agrees with what I said. It doesn't cost that much
money to have a good shop clean, bore and hone a 4 cylinder. No way in
hell should you try and just hone that block to size. Honing is a
finishing operation that's done after boring.

I believe you, the hone would cost me ~$150, then I'd need a heavy duty
drill... The benefit is that I'd have the tools to use again, but I don't
run into the need to hone cylinders very often. Depending on how things go
I may just pick up a remanufactured engine and get the car going again a lot
quicker. I'm more interested in fixing the car since I have heard the
remanufactured heads have the original problem (dropping valve seats)
solved. The work I do swapping the engine will probably be enough
mechanical work to give me my fill for a while.

Thanks!

RogerN

On Oct 21, 9:13*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"jon_banquer" *wrote in message

...









So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? *Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. *It may
be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

If you don't believe me Roger ask someone like Bottleboob. Dollars to
donuts Bottleboob agrees with what I said. It doesn't cost that much
money to have a good shop clean, bore and hone a 4 cylinder. No way in
hell should you try and just hone that block to size. Honing is a
finishing operation that's done after boring.

I believe you, the hone would cost me ~$150, then I'd need a heavy duty
drill... *The benefit is that I'd have the tools to use again, but I don't
run into the need to hone cylinders very often. *Depending on how things go
I may just pick up a remanufactured engine and get the car going again a lot
quicker. *I'm more interested in fixing the car since I have heard the
remanufactured heads have the original problem (dropping valve seats)
solved. *The work I do swapping the engine will probably be enough
mechanical work to give me my fill for a while.

Thanks!

RogerN

Roger,

Hand honing is an art that takes a long time to perfect. Cylinder
finish is very important even in a **** box beater if you really want
the engine to break in correctly and last.

Take a look at what this race shop gets for boring and honing a 4
cylinder engine. Others are slightly lower or higher.

http://www.besracing.com/machine-shop-services.html

I would strongly recommend that no matter what you do that you pick up
a book called:

Engine Blueprinting by Rick Voegelin. It will help you understand the
entire process of what it takes to properly rebuild an engine:

http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Bluepri.../dp/1884089267

"jon_banquer" wrote in message
...

On Oct 21, 9:13 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
snip

If you don't believe me Roger ask someone like Bottleboob. Dollars to
donuts Bottleboob agrees with what I said. It doesn't cost that much
money to have a good shop clean, bore and hone a 4 cylinder. No way in
hell should you try and just hone that block to size. Honing is a
finishing operation that's done after boring.

I believe you, the hone would cost me ~$150, then I'd need a heavy duty
drill... The benefit is that I'd have the tools to use again, but I
don't
run into the need to hone cylinders very often. Depending on how things
go
I may just pick up a remanufactured engine and get the car going again a
lot
quicker. I'm more interested in fixing the car since I have heard the
remanufactured heads have the original problem (dropping valve seats)
solved. The work I do swapping the engine will probably be enough
mechanical work to give me my fill for a while.

Thanks!

RogerN

Roger,

Hand honing is an art that takes a long time to perfect. Cylinder
finish is very important even in a **** box beater if you really want
the engine to break in correctly and last.

Take a look at what this race shop gets for boring and honing a 4
cylinder engine. Others are slightly lower or higher.

http://www.besracing.com/machine-shop-services.html

Thanks, I was wondering what kind of $$$ ballpark the shops charged for
machining services. Looks like I can get it bored and honed for less than I
could buy the hone for.

I would strongly recommend that no matter what you do that you pick up
a book called:

Engine Blueprinting by Rick Voegelin. It will help you understand the
entire process of what it takes to properly rebuild an engine:

http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Bluepri.../dp/1884089267

I read through a book called Engine Blueprinting years ago, might have been
the same one. I remember reading about sealing up the cylinders and
checking the CC's of each cylinder with a piece of (Plexi?)glass sealed with
grease over the cylinders. Each cylinder was CC'd and the volume on the
head side was also checked. Very meticulous work to get everything so
perfect. I'm thinking my time might be better spent on overtime and pay to
have the work done. Wouldn't mind getting an engine to rebuild and
blueprint though, looks interesting.

RogerN

George Bernard Shaw
wrote in message ...

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 21:33:50 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

snip
So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may
be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

You cannot afford the hone required to take out the damage to the cyl
and fit an oversize piston. First oversize is likely 10 thou over -
typical honing (with a VERY expensive Sunnen type fixed hone) is in
the order of a couple thou. Get the block bored for oversize pistons,
and finish honed to proper fit. A LOT cheaper than buying and using a
fixed hone.

Been a mechanic since 1969.

At the machine shop we used a home similar to this:
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-LI15000-.../dp/B000GKIE4S

We relined tubes that were around 36" long with stainless steel pipe and
then honed, I don't remember for sure, around 100 thousandths out of this
stainless steel bore. This took a few hours to get it honed to size but we
were removing a lot of metal much more difficult than iron in around 36" of
cylinder. I removed 0.020" from my motorcycle cylinder in a fairly short
amount of time, maybe a half hour to 45 minutes with a lot of stopping to
measure several different places. I normally didn't hone because the boss
had more critical jobs to do so I stopped more often to see how fast
material was being removed, checked taper, measured diameter X and Y, etc.

I'm confident that I could get the bore the right size in a reasonable
amount of time with a hone like the Lisle, but, like Jon said, I don't know
the surface finish would be right and it looks like I can have it done
cheaper than the price of the hone not considering the time plus the price
for the heavy duty drill.

I had a buddy tell me he polished a cylinder in a model airplane engine, the
piston seized up, seems it needs them grooves for holding oil! I can see
that the finish could be important for proper break-in, wear, the ability to
hold oil in the "scratches".

RogerN

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...

At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway,
the stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed
to size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1"
or so. Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out
with the hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005"
larger than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed
feeling. While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and
when it cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something
else but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking
out the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve
seat destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the
valve seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some
pistons of the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders
to size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may
be good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!



It'll take you a month to take a 4cyl block out to 010 oversized using
manual honing equipment--find a shop that sunnen cyllinder king autonatic
sizing hone and jave them do it for you.

As far as pistons, rings, bearings lifters and so forth, I suggest order
from JC Whitney, my experience with has always been good and their prices
usually come in substantially below your local parts houses--though I
haven't bought anything from them in about ten years, at that time the parts
were still mostly from high quality manufacturers like Clevite, Michigan
Bearing and so forth.

On Oct 21, 9:45*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
"jon_banquer" *wrote in message

...











On Oct 21, 9:13 pm, "RogerN" wrote:
snip

If you don't believe me Roger ask someone like Bottleboob. Dollars to
donuts Bottleboob agrees with what I said. It doesn't cost that much
money to have a good shop clean, bore and hone a 4 cylinder. No way in
hell should you try and just hone that block to size. Honing is a
finishing operation that's done after boring.

I believe you, the hone would cost me ~$150, then I'd need a heavy duty
drill... *The benefit is that I'd have the tools to use again, but I
don't
run into the need to hone cylinders very often. *Depending on how things
go
I may just pick up a remanufactured engine and get the car going again a
lot
quicker. *I'm more interested in fixing the car since I have heard the
remanufactured heads have the original problem (dropping valve seats)
solved. *The work I do swapping the engine will probably be enough
mechanical work to give me my fill for a while.

Thanks!

RogerN

Roger,

Hand honing is an art that takes a long time to perfect. Cylinder
finish is very important even in a **** box beater if you really want
the engine to break in correctly and last.

Take a look at what this race shop gets for boring and honing a 4
cylinder engine. Others are slightly lower or higher.

http://www.besracing.com/machine-shop-services.html

Thanks, I was wondering what kind of $$$ ballpark the shops charged for
machining services. *Looks like I can get it bored and honed for less than I
could buy the hone for.

I would strongly recommend that no matter what you do that you pick up
a book called:

Engine Blueprinting by Rick Voegelin. It will help you understand the
entire process of what it takes to properly rebuild an engine:

http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Bluepri...uilding-S/dp/1...

I read through a book called Engine Blueprinting years ago, might have been
the same one. *I remember reading about sealing up the cylinders and
checking the CC's of each cylinder with a piece of (Plexi?)glass sealed with
grease over the cylinders. *Each cylinder was CC'd and the volume on the
head side was also checked. *Very meticulous work to get everything so
perfect. *I'm thinking my time might be better spent on overtime and pay to
have the work done. *Wouldn't mind getting an engine to rebuild and
blueprint though, looks interesting.

RogerN

"Thanks, I was wondering what kind of $$$ ballpark the shops charged
for machining services. Looks like I can get it bored and honed for
less than I could buy the hone for."

It's still very important to put in writing up front what the
tolerance of the bores must be and then for you to check them with a
quality dial bore gauge. It's also important that you know what the
finish of the bores should look like. You want a slight crosshatch
pattern. This helps retain oil to lubricate ring faces during break
in.

You need a automotive engine machine shop that takes real pride in
their work and is beyond anal retentive. Trust but verify everything.

" I read through a book called Engine Blueprinting years ago, might
have been the same one"

For years it was the only book available on engine blueprinting. Most
likely the same one.

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...

perfect. I'm thinking my time might be better spent on overtime and pay
to have the work done. Wouldn't mind getting an engine to rebuild and
blueprint though, looks interesting.

Look on craigslist or at a wrecking yard for one that was pulled out of a
totalled vehicle; one that supposedly already runs fine, and rebuild it...

--if the oil is charcoal black, don't buy it but if it's a dark amber it's
probably okay, this means that somebody had at least been changing the oil
every so often.

On 10/21/2012 10:33 PM, RogerN wrote:
At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN




The elephant in the room---get a good boneyard engine. $300 and an
afternoon.

I've done just this several times on my fleet of gravely commercial
lawn tractors. it will take you a couple evenings as it cuts slow.

Karl

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 21:33:50 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

I'd have to ask. How much does it cost to have a stripped block bored?
What does the "Lisle 15000 maybe" cost and how often do you plan on
using it? Do you have the measuring equipment necessary to accurately
"bore" a block?

My own experience in engine rebuilding is that it is generally cheaper
to take the stripped block to a shop top have the work done.
--
Cheers,
John B.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:32:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Oct 21, 8:26Â*pm, "Terry Coombs" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in message

...
On Oct 21, 7:34 pm, "RogerN" wrote:









At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or
so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed
feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something
else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the
valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons
of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN
If you decide to rebuild the engine yourself you are much better off

bringing the block to a quality automotive machine shop and letting
them clean, bore and hone it. It's not very expensive and if they are
a good shop they can do a far better job than you can.

Â* And you're a dick .

Â* Roger , get your hands on a rigid Sunnen hone , one that has the rack type
feed you mentioned above . I've bored several Harley cylinders with mine
with great results . You've got the advantage of a lump of metal that you
won't have to bolt into a fixture to hold it still ... plus the fact that
you can hone to a fit that meets *YOUR* standards instead of whatever mood
the boring machine guy happens to be in on that day . I'm bettin' that he
ain't going to take the time to fit your pistons individually to .00075" . I
will agree with Yonnie that you might want to have a shop clean it in their
dip tank , unless you want to do like I did with my wife's car motor and
take it to the car wash . BTW , from your comments above you apparently have
the skills to do this job yourself ... and a 50/50 mix of diesel/kero and
ATF makes a great honing fluid . And don't forget the post-hone washout !!
--
Snag

**** you asshole. I'm bored and honed more blocks than you ever will
in a commercial automotive machine shop. If you know what to look for
and how to manage the job a boring machine like a Rottler and a Sunnen
CK-10 can do a much better job. There is no real money to be saved
doing it yourself.
Particularly at the cost of a Sunnen rigid hone. And the minimum 2
sets of stones required to do the job properly.

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:48:09 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Oct 21, 7:34Â*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Â*Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. Â*I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Â*Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else
but working on the Escort. Â*So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Â*Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Â*Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. Â*It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

If you don't believe me Roger ask someone like Bottleboob. Dollars to
donuts Bottleboob agrees with what I said. It doesn't cost that much
money to have a good shop clean, bore and hone a 4 cylinder. No way in
hell should you try and just hone that block to size. Honing is a
finishing operation that's done after boring.
And he NEEDS to do all 4, not just the damaged cyl unless he wants
to turn the engine into a Whacker plate tamper.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:59:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 21:33:50 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:


At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

I'd have to ask. How much does it cost to have a stripped block bored?
What does the "Lisle 15000 maybe" cost and how often do you plan on
using it? Do you have the measuring equipment necessary to accurately
"bore" a block?

My own experience in engine rebuilding is that it is generally cheaper
to take the stripped block to a shop top have the work done.
The lisle 1500 and a set of 80 and 320 grit stones is going to cost
the better part of $180, and one mis-step and the stones are history.

Ballanced against about $130 to have the job done right by a good
shop. Then he still needs a good bore guage or equivalent micrometers
to do the measuring.

On Oct 22, 11:40*am, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:32:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer









wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:26*pm, "Terry Coombs" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in message

....
On Oct 21, 7:34 pm, "RogerN" wrote:

At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or
so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed
feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something
else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the
valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons
of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN
If you decide to rebuild the engine yourself you are much better off

bringing the block to a quality automotive machine shop and letting
them clean, bore and hone it. It's not very expensive and if they are
a good shop they can do a far better job than you can.

* And you're a dick .

* Roger , get your hands on a rigid Sunnen hone , one that has the rack type
feed you mentioned above . I've bored several Harley cylinders with mine
with great results . You've got the advantage of a lump of metal that you
won't have to bolt into a fixture to hold it still ... plus the fact that
you can hone to a fit that meets *YOUR* standards instead of whatever mood
the boring machine guy happens to be in on that day . I'm bettin' that he
ain't going to take the time to fit your pistons individually to .00075" . I
will agree with Yonnie that you might want to have a shop clean it in their
dip tank , unless you want to do like I did with my wife's car motor and
take it to the car wash . BTW , from your comments above you apparently have
the skills to do this job yourself ... and a 50/50 mix of diesel/kero and
ATF makes a great honing fluid . And don't forget the post-hone washout !!
--
Snag

**** you asshole. I'm bored and honed more blocks than you ever will
in a commercial automotive machine shop. If you know what to look for
and how to manage the job a boring machine like a Rottler and a Sunnen
CK-10 can do a much better job. There is no real money to be saved
doing it yourself.

* Particularly at the cost of a Sunnen rigid hone. And the minimum 2
sets of stones required to do the job properly.

"And the minimum 2 sets of stones required to do the job properly."

When running a Sunnen CK-10 honing machine I always changed stones for
finishing.

On Oct 22, 11:42*am, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:48:09 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer









wrote:
On Oct 21, 7:34*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. *Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. *I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? *Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something else
but working on the Escort. *So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. *Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? *Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. *It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN

If you don't believe me Roger ask someone like Bottleboob. Dollars to
donuts Bottleboob agrees with what I said. It doesn't cost that much
money to have a good shop clean, bore and hone a 4 cylinder. No way in
hell should you try and just hone that block to size. Honing is a
finishing operation that's done after boring.

* And he NEEDS to do all 4, not just the damaged cyl unless he wants
to turn the engine into a Whacker plate tamper.

It's just not worth it unless you already have all the equipment or
access to using it for free. Just as important is the experience of
knowing how to do the job right. Honing cylinders properly is a skill
that takes time to perfect.

It's a lot easier to get someone to do the job who does it for a
living and to manage the job.

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 12:05:00 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Oct 22, 11:40Â*am, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:32:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer









wrote:
On Oct 21, 8:26Â*pm, "Terry Coombs" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in message

...
On Oct 21, 7:34 pm, "RogerN" wrote:

At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway, the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1" or
so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005" larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed
feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something
else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the
valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some pistons
of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN
If you decide to rebuild the engine yourself you are much better off

bringing the block to a quality automotive machine shop and letting
them clean, bore and hone it. It's not very expensive and if they are
a good shop they can do a far better job than you can.

Â* And you're a dick .

Â* Roger , get your hands on a rigid Sunnen hone , one that has the rack type
feed you mentioned above . I've bored several Harley cylinders with mine
with great results . You've got the advantage of a lump of metal that you
won't have to bolt into a fixture to hold it still ... plus the fact that
you can hone to a fit that meets *YOUR* standards instead of whatever mood
the boring machine guy happens to be in on that day . I'm bettin' that he
ain't going to take the time to fit your pistons individually to .00075" . I
will agree with Yonnie that you might want to have a shop clean it in their
dip tank , unless you want to do like I did with my wife's car motor and
take it to the car wash . BTW , from your comments above you apparently have
the skills to do this job yourself ... and a 50/50 mix of diesel/kero and
ATF makes a great honing fluid . And don't forget the post-hone washout !!
--
Snag

**** you asshole. I'm bored and honed more blocks than you ever will
in a commercial automotive machine shop. If you know what to look for
and how to manage the job a boring machine like a Rottler and a Sunnen
CK-10 can do a much better job. There is no real money to be saved
doing it yourself.

Â* Particularly at the cost of a Sunnen rigid hone. And the minimum 2
sets of stones required to do the job properly.

"And the minimum 2 sets of stones required to do the job properly."

When running a Sunnen CK-10 honing machine I always changed stones for
finishing.
80 for roughing, 320 for finishing.

wrote in message ...

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:59:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

snip

I'd have to ask. How much does it cost to have a stripped block bored?
What does the "Lisle 15000 maybe" cost and how often do you plan on
using it? Do you have the measuring equipment necessary to accurately
"bore" a block?

My own experience in engine rebuilding is that it is generally cheaper
to take the stripped block to a shop top have the work done.
The lisle 1500 and a set of 80 and 320 grit stones is going to cost
the better part of $180, and one mis-step and the stones are history.

Ballanced against about $130 to have the job done right by a good
shop. Then he still needs a good bore guage or equivalent micrometers
to do the measuring.

I have a good older inside micrometer set.

Lisle hone and stones

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-LI15000-.../dp/B000GKIE4S

The machine shop sounds like the better and cheaper way to go but it's
always nice to have an excuse to buy new tools :-)

RogerN

On Oct 22, 5:44*pm, "RogerN" wrote:
wrote in messagenews:kd5b8810qr8nepebqh7dj5qfql796do40b@4ax .com...







On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:59:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

snip

I'd have to ask. How much does it cost to have a stripped block bored?
What does the "Lisle 15000 maybe" cost and how often do you plan on
using it? *Do you have the measuring equipment necessary to accurately
"bore" a block?

My own experience in engine rebuilding is that it is generally cheaper
to take the stripped block to a shop top have the work done.
*The lisle 1500 and a set of 80 and 320 grit stones is going to cost
the better part of $180, and one mis-step and the stones are history.

Ballanced against about $130 to have the job done right by a good
shop. *Then he still needs a good bore guage or equivalent micrometers
to do the measuring.

I have a good older inside micrometer set.

Lisle hone and stones
http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-LI15000-.../dp/B000GKIE4S

The machine shop sounds like the better and cheaper way to go but it's
always nice to have an excuse to buy new tools :-)

RogerN- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Roger uses his good old mop handle that he brags about to hone out
anything...don't you Roger?

Ask his wives how well it works.

TMT

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:44:04 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:59:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

snip

I'd have to ask. How much does it cost to have a stripped block bored?
What does the "Lisle 15000 maybe" cost and how often do you plan on
using it? Do you have the measuring equipment necessary to accurately
"bore" a block?

My own experience in engine rebuilding is that it is generally cheaper
to take the stripped block to a shop top have the work done.
The lisle 1500 and a set of 80 and 320 grit stones is going to cost
the better part of $180, and one mis-step and the stones are history.

Ballanced against about $130 to have the job done right by a good
shop. Then he still needs a good bore guage or equivalent micrometers
to do the measuring.

I have a good older inside micrometer set.

Lisle hone and stones

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-LI15000-.../dp/B000GKIE4S

The machine shop sounds like the better and cheaper way to go but it's
always nice to have an excuse to buy new tools :-)

RogerN

It's only nice to have an excuse to buy tools you will use again.
I have many that have never been used - and many more that have been
used once or twice.

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:32:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Oct 21, 8:26 pm, "Terry Coombs" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in message

...
On Oct 21, 7:34 pm, "RogerN" wrote:









At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders
used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway,
the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed
to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1"
or
so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with
the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005"
larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed
feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when
it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the
engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something
else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking
out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the
valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some
pistons
of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the
cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a
machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt
or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on
an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It
may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN
If you decide to rebuild the engine yourself you are much better off

bringing the block to a quality automotive machine shop and letting
them clean, bore and hone it. It's not very expensive and if they are
a good shop they can do a far better job than you can.

And you're a dick .

Roger , get your hands on a rigid Sunnen hone , one that has the rack
type
feed you mentioned above . I've bored several Harley cylinders with mine
with great results . You've got the advantage of a lump of metal that
you
won't have to bolt into a fixture to hold it still ... plus the fact
that
you can hone to a fit that meets *YOUR* standards instead of whatever
mood
the boring machine guy happens to be in on that day . I'm bettin' that
he
ain't going to take the time to fit your pistons individually to .00075"
. I
will agree with Yonnie that you might want to have a shop clean it in
their
dip tank , unless you want to do like I did with my wife's car motor and
take it to the car wash . BTW , from your comments above you apparently
have
the skills to do this job yourself ... and a 50/50 mix of diesel/kero
and
ATF makes a great honing fluid . And don't forget the post-hone washout
!!
--
Snag

**** you asshole. I'm bored and honed more blocks than you ever will
in a commercial automotive machine shop. If you know what to look for
and how to manage the job a boring machine like a Rottler and a Sunnen
CK-10 can do a much better job. There is no real money to be saved
doing it yourself.
Particularly at the cost of a Sunnen rigid hone. And the minimum 2
sets of stones required to do the job properly.

What can I say ? I bought TWO hones at a pawn shop with several sets of
stones INCLUDING THREE SETS OF BRAND NEW STONES for fifty bucks . Swapped
one hone I kept the best one for some Harley parts . I kept the new stones
.... OK , so I got lucky .
--
Snag
Still haven't used
the new 400 grit stones ...

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:44:04 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:59:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

snip

I'd have to ask. How much does it cost to have a stripped block bored?
What does the "Lisle 15000 maybe" cost and how often do you plan on
using it? Do you have the measuring equipment necessary to accurately
"bore" a block?

My own experience in engine rebuilding is that it is generally cheaper
to take the stripped block to a shop top have the work done.
The lisle 1500 and a set of 80 and 320 grit stones is going to cost
the better part of $180, and one mis-step and the stones are history.

Ballanced against about $130 to have the job done right by a good
shop. Then he still needs a good bore guage or equivalent micrometers
to do the measuring.

I have a good older inside micrometer set.

Lisle hone and stones

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-LI15000-.../dp/B000GKIE4S

The machine shop sounds like the better and cheaper way to go but it's
always nice to have an excuse to buy new tools :-)

RogerN

It's only nice to have an excuse to buy tools you will use again.
I have many that have never been used - and many more that have been
used once or twice.

Ah yes , but the feeling you get when that 300 dollar tool saves you an
$1100 mechanic bill is oh-so-sweet . And before I buy new , I usually check
the pawn shops . See my post above about my cylinder hone . There are
exceptions too , but I've saved thousands of dollars on tools purchased in
pawn shops . Test before you buy ...
--
Snag
Bought my lathe
at one too ...

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 22:14:50 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 20:32:24 -0700 (PDT), jon_banquer
wrote:

On Oct 21, 8:26 pm, "Terry Coombs" wrote:
"jon_banquer" wrote in message

...
On Oct 21, 7:34 pm, "RogerN" wrote:









At the machine shop where I once worked, we would reline cylinders
used to
extrude melted plastic for record (remember them?) production. Anyway,
the
stainless steel liner was pressed in the cylinder, welded, then honed
to
size, don't remember how much honing but I'm estimating at least 0.1"
or
so.
Anyway in those days I had a dirt bike (RM250) that I bored out with
the
hone, worked great as far as I could tell. I honed it to 0.0005"
larger
than the minimum size.

This hone was the type with the rack and pinion feed, positive feed
feeling.
While honing you could feed taper in the bore, out of round, and when
it
cleaned up, nothing like those springy break cylinder hones.

Anyway, remember my economy car with the bad engine problem, the 2002
escort? Instead of spending $4k on having a mechanic replace the
engine
with a Jasper remanufactured engine, I'm considering getting something
else
but working on the Escort. So I'm thinking pull the engine, checking
out
the damage and probably doing an overhaul myself. Since the valve seat
destroyed #4 cylinder I'm thinking get a remanufactured head with the
valve
seat dropping problem fixed and honing out the cylinders for some
pistons
of
the minimum size that the cylinder walls clean up.

So, should I get a good home (Lisle 15000 maybe?) and hone the
cylinders
to
size or is their some benefit to having the cylinder bored at a
machine
shop? Depending on how everything else goes, I may just get a rebuilt
or
remanufactured engine and swap it myself, spending $2k (maybe less) on
an
engine is a lot better than $4k for an engine in this older car. It
may be
good for another 5 or 6 years if I can keep clear of the deer!

Thanks!

RogerN
If you decide to rebuild the engine yourself you are much better off

bringing the block to a quality automotive machine shop and letting
them clean, bore and hone it. It's not very expensive and if they are
a good shop they can do a far better job than you can.

And you're a dick .

Roger , get your hands on a rigid Sunnen hone , one that has the rack
type
feed you mentioned above . I've bored several Harley cylinders with mine
with great results . You've got the advantage of a lump of metal that
you
won't have to bolt into a fixture to hold it still ... plus the fact
that
you can hone to a fit that meets *YOUR* standards instead of whatever
mood
the boring machine guy happens to be in on that day . I'm bettin' that
he
ain't going to take the time to fit your pistons individually to .00075"
. I
will agree with Yonnie that you might want to have a shop clean it in
their
dip tank , unless you want to do like I did with my wife's car motor and
take it to the car wash . BTW , from your comments above you apparently
have
the skills to do this job yourself ... and a 50/50 mix of diesel/kero
and
ATF makes a great honing fluid . And don't forget the post-hone washout
!!
--
Snag

**** you asshole. I'm bored and honed more blocks than you ever will
in a commercial automotive machine shop. If you know what to look for
and how to manage the job a boring machine like a Rottler and a Sunnen
CK-10 can do a much better job. There is no real money to be saved
doing it yourself.
Particularly at the cost of a Sunnen rigid hone. And the minimum 2
sets of stones required to do the job properly.

What can I say ? I bought TWO hones at a pawn shop with several sets of
stones INCLUDING THREE SETS OF BRAND NEW STONES for fifty bucks . Swapped
one hone I kept the best one for some Harley parts . I kept the new stones
... OK , so I got lucky .


Shrug..I have a Sunnen hone and a bunch of grinding arbors to go with
it. And 3 bladed ID mikes.

Total cost was less than $400

Something of a fluke...but.....Grin

I long term loaned them to a buddy who runs an engine rebuilding shop.
Now I dont pay to have an engine rebuilt.


Gunner

"The best government is a benevolent tyranny tempered
by an occasional assassination." --Voltaire

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 22:24:18 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 17:44:04 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

wrote in message ...

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 18:59:40 +0700, John B.
wrote:

snip

I'd have to ask. How much does it cost to have a stripped block bored?
What does the "Lisle 15000 maybe" cost and how often do you plan on
using it? Do you have the measuring equipment necessary to accurately
"bore" a block?

My own experience in engine rebuilding is that it is generally cheaper
to take the stripped block to a shop top have the work done.
The lisle 1500 and a set of 80 and 320 grit stones is going to cost
the better part of $180, and one mis-step and the stones are history.

Ballanced against about $130 to have the job done right by a good
shop. Then he still needs a good bore guage or equivalent micrometers
to do the measuring.

I have a good older inside micrometer set.

Lisle hone and stones

http://www.amazon.com/Lisle-LI15000-.../dp/B000GKIE4S

The machine shop sounds like the better and cheaper way to go but it's
always nice to have an excuse to buy new tools :-)

RogerN

It's only nice to have an excuse to buy tools you will use again.
I have many that have never been used - and many more that have been
used once or twice.

Ah yes , but the feeling you get when that 300 dollar tool saves you an
$1100 mechanic bill is oh-so-sweet . And before I buy new , I usually check
the pawn shops . See my post above about my cylinder hone . There are
exceptions too , but I've saved thousands of dollars on tools purchased in
pawn shops . Test before you buy ...
All my woodworking and power tools for YEARS were second hand high end
stuff. Finally broke down and bought a NEW 1/2 inch electric drill.