Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.

The shop is unheated (California) but the winter temps do go down to
the high 30s at night in the winter time on occasion. Ive had some
lights have issues coming on at those temps in the past.

I scored a bunch of 8' (2 sets of (2) 4' tubes) fixtures that run on
277vts. Some 10 of them or more, with nice speckle covers that Id
like to put up and replace the single 4' fixtures.

Ive been using a couple 3 tube, 4' fixures that are already 277 volts
in odd areas and running them off a 240/120 single phase
transformer..hooked up backwards, with no issues, for a number of
years.

My "HV" (mains) standard power runs between 240 and 250 volts out in
the shop off the breaker panel, but Ive been concerned about isolating
the lamps so Ive used old machine tool transformers hooked up
backwards.

Ive been checking the "new" 4 tube fixtures out and they all seem to
fire up well and Ive got several new cases of 4' T12 bulbs in the
racks along with a partial case of T8 4' tubes. Ive stuck in T8s in
the older fixtures over the years and they work fine even missmatched
with a T12..but I generally replace both.

So at this point in time...Im getting ready to put up the 8'
fixtures..but Im concerned about how to power them up.

1. Is it "kosher" to simply hook them to an unused 240 single phase
breaker?
2. Is it better to use a transformer and isolate them from the "mains
power"?

3 If I should install a transformer...where do I find a 240-277 step
UP transformer cheaply? Or several of them (welding shop needs one as
well

4. How many watts does each 4' pair actually draw? 90 watts? Each of
the 8' fixtures has 2 ballasts, one for each 4' pair.

I tend to work out there at night..and with Pacific Greed and
Extortion charging me far more than the national average...my power
bills at HOME have been around $400 a month this summer. This with a
1hp swamp cooler motor running 24/7. (which really hurts!!!)

Id like to have lighting in the shop that will work for me..but doesnt
break the bank. Work has slowed down tremendously (not had a service
call in a week and a half) and its not going to get much better Im
afraid...California and the US manufacturing has just declined..yet
again.


Id like to find some pull chain lighting switches that I can mount on
each 8" fixture to either kill the entire fixture..or just half of it
(double ballests) and help keep the lighting costs down as well. Ebay
has "pull chain" switches for $4 each..but that will add up fairly
quickly if I install 10 lights.


Any suggestions/recommendations on setting up my lighting that will
not break the bank?


Thanks

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.


Your best bet is to install T8 fixtures over your machines and switch them
individually. You can get decent Lithonia fixtures at Home Depot with real
ballasts for pretty cheap money, at least here in NY. Payback on using T8
instead of T12 is quick, and task lighting is also a good way to save money.
Buy a fixture at a time as you can afford it.

Gunner wrote in
:

Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.

The shop is unheated (California) but the winter temps do go down to
the high 30s at night in the winter time on occasion. Ive had some
lights have issues coming on at those temps in the past.

I scored a bunch of 8' (2 sets of (2) 4' tubes) fixtures that run on
277vts. Some 10 of them or more, with nice speckle covers that Id
like to put up and replace the single 4' fixtures.

So these fittings are intended for 277V (star) operation off a 480V
(delta) three phase supply.


Ive been using a couple 3 tube, 4' fixures that are already 277 volts
in odd areas and running them off a 240/120 single phase
transformer..hooked up backwards, with no issues, for a number of
years.

Many ballasts are dual rated 208/277V, so correct operation off 240V is
not surprising.


My "HV" (mains) standard power runs between 240 and 250 volts out in
the shop off the breaker panel, but Ive been concerned about isolating
the lamps so Ive used old machine tool transformers hooked up
backwards.

As the fittings are rated for use with a 480V three phase supply, your
concerns are almost certainly unjustified.

Ive been checking the "new" 4 tube fixtures out and they all seem to
fire up well and Ive got several new cases of 4' T12 bulbs in the
racks along with a partial case of T8 4' tubes. Ive stuck in T8s in
the older fixtures over the years and they work fine even missmatched
with a T12..but I generally replace both.

So at this point in time...Im getting ready to put up the 8'
fixtures..but Im concerned about how to power them up.

1. Is it "kosher" to simply hook them to an unused 240 single phase
breaker?

Yes - but only if they are dual rated.

2. Is it better to use a transformer and isolate them from the "mains
power"?
Two questions, but lets leave isolation aside.
You need a boost transformer to 277V (nominal) if the ballsts are not
dual rated.

3 If I should install a transformer...where do I find a 240-277 step
UP transformer cheaply? Or several of them (welding shop needs one as
well
Any transformer with a 240V primary and a 30-40V secondary can be wired
as a boost autotransformer. However this DOES NOT PROVIDE ISOLATION
Asuming a 35V secondary, the primary only carries 15% of the lamp curent.
If the secondary current rating is sufficient, its good, Dont worry about
the VA rating. An autotransformer will be much smaller/cheaper than any
other solution.

N.B. it would be preferable to use a pair of 18V transformers to boost
each side of the supply equally to keep the 277V output centered on
neutral. This is quite possibly not to code, so wire a suitable wall
mount male connector to the lights and build the transformer in a
'portable' housing with flex leads.


4. How many watts does each 4' pair actually draw? 90 watts? Each of
the 8' fixtures has 2 ballasts, one for each 4' pair.
Data should be on the ballast. Add them up. If in doubt, MEASURE!

I tend to work out there at night..and with Pacific Greed and
Extortion charging me far more than the national average...my power
bills at HOME have been around $400 a month this summer. This with a
1hp swamp cooler motor running 24/7. (which really hurts!!!)

Id like to have lighting in the shop that will work for me..but doesnt
break the bank. Work has slowed down tremendously (not had a service
call in a week and a half) and its not going to get much better Im
afraid...California and the US manufacturing has just declined..yet
again.


Id like to find some pull chain lighting switches that I can mount on
each 8" fixture to either kill the entire fixture..or just half of it
(double ballests) and help keep the lighting costs down as well. Ebay
has "pull chain" switches for $4 each..but that will add up fairly
quickly if I install 10 lights.


Any suggestions/recommendations on setting up my lighting that will
not break the bank?


Thanks

Gunner

HTH
Ian.


--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:19:19 -0400, "ATP"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.


Your best bet is to install T8 fixtures over your machines and switch them
individually. You can get decent Lithonia fixtures at Home Depot with real
ballasts for pretty cheap money, at least here in NY. Payback on using T8
instead of T12 is quick, and task lighting is also a good way to save money.
Buy a fixture at a time as you can afford it.

But which voltage?


Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:19:19 -0400, "ATP"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.


Your best bet is to install T8 fixtures over your machines and switch them
individually. You can get decent Lithonia fixtures at Home Depot with real
ballasts for pretty cheap money, at least here in NY. Payback on using T8
instead of T12 is quick, and task lighting is also a good way to save
money.
Buy a fixture at a time as you can afford it.

But which voltage?


I would just buy new 120v fixtures. I actually have some nice indirect 277
T5 fixtures that I wanted to use but eventually decided installing a buck
boost transformer and having a different voltage in the shop just wasn't
worth it.

ATP wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:19:19 -0400, "ATP"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.


Your best bet is to install T8 fixtures over your machines and switch them
individually. You can get decent Lithonia fixtures at Home Depot with real
ballasts for pretty cheap money, at least here in NY. Payback on using T8
instead of T12 is quick, and task lighting is also a good way to save
money.
Buy a fixture at a time as you can afford it.

But which voltage?


I would just buy new 120v fixtures. I actually have some nice indirect 277
T5 fixtures that I wanted to use but eventually decided installing a buck
boost transformer and having a different voltage in the shop just wasn't
worth it.


What's the big deal? A single 24 V transformer in boost
configuration will drive all the lights. 277V is 115% of 240, and 264 V
(240+24) is within 5%. Standard light switches are rated for 277 volts.
80 watt lamp at 277 draws 0.2888 amps. Round that up to .3A per tube
for easy calculations. 40 Watt would be about .15A. 55 feet only has
room for a little over six eight foot fixtures in a single row, so the
maximum load would be .6A * 6 or 3.6A if all six fixtures are on. If he
used the other four fixtures over machines, that would be another 2.4A
for a total of 6A at 277 Volts. You don't need, or even want isolation
on the fixtures. The housings should be grounded, so a fault will blow a
fuse, or trip a breaker. They used to put a fuse in some brands of
eight foot fixtures, so a failure wouldn't take out all of the light
fixtures. Not a bad idea, but the fuses need to be rated for 600V
circuits to prevent a plasma arc inside the fuse.

You can even wire the fixtures to turn on pairs of tubes instead of
all four, with some ballasts.

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:35:07 -0400, "ATP"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:19:19 -0400, "ATP"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
...
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.


Your best bet is to install T8 fixtures over your machines and switch them
individually. You can get decent Lithonia fixtures at Home Depot with real
ballasts for pretty cheap money, at least here in NY. Payback on using T8
instead of T12 is quick, and task lighting is also a good way to save
money.
Buy a fixture at a time as you can afford it.

But which voltage?


I would just buy new 120v fixtures. I actually have some nice indirect 277
T5 fixtures that I wanted to use but eventually decided installing a buck
boost transformer and having a different voltage in the shop just wasn't
worth it.

Buying...is out of the cards at the moment. I might be able to start
swapping ballasts over time...but...there is no money for changing
fixtures. Seriously.

As long as I dont have to spend money..Im golden.

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

My shop is full lighted with standard 8 foot fixtures. In really cold
mornings they are slow to come to full power also.

On 9/9/2012 6:55 AM, Gunner wrote:
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.

You ****ing imbecile. Twice you attempt to write the word, and twice
you misspell it, in two different ways. It's fluorescent, not
"flourescent" or "florescent". Florescent is actually a word, but it's
the wrong word for your whiny lament.

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 14:16:32 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


ATP wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:19:19 -0400, "ATP"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.


Your best bet is to install T8 fixtures over your machines and switch them
individually. You can get decent Lithonia fixtures at Home Depot with real
ballasts for pretty cheap money, at least here in NY. Payback on using T8
instead of T12 is quick, and task lighting is also a good way to save
money.
Buy a fixture at a time as you can afford it.

But which voltage?


I would just buy new 120v fixtures. I actually have some nice indirect 277
T5 fixtures that I wanted to use but eventually decided installing a buck
boost transformer and having a different voltage in the shop just wasn't
worth it.


What's the big deal? A single 24 V transformer in boost
configuration will drive all the lights. 277V is 115% of 240, and 264 V
(240+24) is within 5%. Standard light switches are rated for 277 volts.
80 watt lamp at 277 draws 0.2888 amps. Round that up to .3A per tube
for easy calculations. 40 Watt would be about .15A. 55 feet only has
room for a little over six eight foot fixtures in a single row, so the
maximum load would be .6A * 6 or 3.6A if all six fixtures are on. If he
used the other four fixtures over machines, that would be another 2.4A
for a total of 6A at 277 Volts. You don't need, or even want isolation
on the fixtures. The housings should be grounded, so a fault will blow a
fuse, or trip a breaker. They used to put a fuse in some brands of
eight foot fixtures, so a failure wouldn't take out all of the light
fixtures. Not a bad idea, but the fuses need to be rated for 600V
circuits to prevent a plasma arc inside the fuse.

You can even wire the fixtures to turn on pairs of tubes instead of
all four, with some ballasts.


So let me get this straight..Im very weak here...

input side is 240vts. Output side is 24 or 32vts..simple step down
transformer, right?

Hook one side of the 240 volts to one 240 term..and wire a jumper
around to the low voltage side and connect to (1) 24 volt term

The othe 240 hot goes to the other 240 input term..

The remaining 24 volt OUTPUT terminal then becomes 264 volts output
along with the jumpered 240+24 volt tern?

Do I have that correct?

And if so...where do you recommend I put the fuse(s), on both sides
of the transformer..single input and single output terminals?

Im VERY weak on transformer work. Shrug. The stroke took a lot of
what I did know..away, from the looks of it.

I may..may have (3) decent sized "buckboost" transformers on a board
out on top of one of the racks. Used for bucking UP machine tool
voltages as I recall. Ill have to climb up and check. They were as I
recall..used on a 3 phase machine..hence 3 of them.

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:16:22 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

My shop is full lighted with standard 8 foot fixtures. In really cold
mornings they are slow to come to full power also.
I used to just brush them with a corn broom to get them to "fire"
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada

George Plimpton fired this volley in
:


You ****ing imbecile. Twice you attempt to write the word, and twice
you misspell it, in two different ways. It's fluorescent, not
"flourescent" or "florescent". Florescent is actually a word, but it's
the wrong word for your whiny lament.


Aw, George, it's OK... This is a symptom of being taught by "perfeshunul
Englich teechurs" in our public education system. Folks can only do as
well as they are taught to do.

I was watching the Tampa Bay game today. They had a lightning storm
overhead, and it's an open stadium. So, they posted on the big-screen,
"Take 'Coverage' in the concourses and ramps."

My 14 year-old granddaughter cannot compose, punctuate, spell, or speak a
single cogent sentence in English, and she makes "B" and "B+" grades in
English classes, because her (female, minority, US-born-but-non-native-
English-speaking) teachers cannot, either. The longest "essay" she'll ever
be asked to write in high school will be a page, or less. "Term papers" are
a thing of a generation past.

One cannot get away from the degeneration of the language. One can only
beat the breast and damn the gods for it.

LLoyd

Gunner wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

What's the big deal? A single 24 V transformer in boost
configuration will drive all the lights. 277V is 115% of 240, and 264 V
(240+24) is within 5%. Standard light switches are rated for 277 volts.
80 watt lamp at 277 draws 0.2888 amps. Round that up to .3A per tube
for easy calculations. 40 Watt would be about .15A. 55 feet only has
room for a little over six eight foot fixtures in a single row, so the
maximum load would be .6A * 6 or 3.6A if all six fixtures are on. If he
used the other four fixtures over machines, that would be another 2.4A
for a total of 6A at 277 Volts. You don't need, or even want isolation
on the fixtures. The housings should be grounded, so a fault will blow a
fuse, or trip a breaker. They used to put a fuse in some brands of
eight foot fixtures, so a failure wouldn't take out all of the light
fixtures. Not a bad idea, but the fuses need to be rated for 600V
circuits to prevent a plasma arc inside the fuse.

You can even wire the fixtures to turn on pairs of tubes instead of
all four, with some ballasts.

So let me get this straight..Im very weak here...

input side is 240 volts. Output side is 24 or 32vts..simple step down
transformer, right?


Yes. Like a control or rectifer transformer used to provide 24 volts
vopr a machine.


Hook one side of the 240 volts to one 240 term..and wire a jumper
around to the low voltage side and connect to (1) 24 volt term

The othe 240 hot goes to the other 240 input term..

The remaining 24 volt OUTPUT terminal then becomes 264 volts output
along with the jumpered 240+24 volt term?

Do I have that correct?


Yes. She the photo in the link to help you visualize it. You can
think of it as a Variac set in boost mode, if that helps.


And if so...where do you recommend I put the fuse(s), on both sides
of the transformer..single input and single output terminals?


http://acmefaq.files.wordpress.com/2...buckboost3.jpg sows how to
connect a transformer in boost configuration. The 'H' windings are the
240 side. The 'X' windings are the low voltage secondary. If they are
connected in phase, they raise the output voltage. If you reverse the
phase, it will subtract from the line voltage. Both sides show split
windings, so just ignore the H2 to H3 and the X2 to X3 connections if
your transformer has single windings. I would put a 10 to 15 Amp fuse
or breaker after the transformer, and use a 15A circuit breaker in the
panel.


Feel free to email me if you have any other questions.


I'm VERY weak on transformer work. Shrug. The stroke took a lot of
what I did know..away, from the looks of it.

I may..may have (3) decent sized "buckboost" transformers on a board
out on top of one of the racks. Used for bucking UP machine tool
voltages as I recall. Ill have to climb up and check. They were as I
recall..used on a 3 phase machine..hence 3 of them.


I would mount one in a box, if the terminals are exposed. If they
have a wiring compartment, just mount it next to the breaker box & wire
it in. This is like that repair I did last year to that Ineco pipe
bender that was reporting low voltage. BTW, they lost a second computer
in that thing. Luckily, I was able to repair the oldest one so they
didn't have to wait for a replacement from Italy. I'll try to post
photos of the second controller before & after I repair it. They will
be posted on my Fliker account, until I start a repair blog.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/materrell/

wrote:

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:16:22 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

My shop is full lighted with standard 8 foot fixtures. In really cold
mornings they are slow to come to full power also.
I used to just brush them with a corn broom to get them to "fire"


Sure, but that only works in Canada!

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 14:16:32 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


ATP wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:19:19 -0400, "ATP"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.


Your best bet is to install T8 fixtures over your machines and switch them
individually. You can get decent Lithonia fixtures at Home Depot with real
ballasts for pretty cheap money, at least here in NY. Payback on using T8
instead of T12 is quick, and task lighting is also a good way to save
money.
Buy a fixture at a time as you can afford it.

But which voltage?


I would just buy new 120v fixtures. I actually have some nice indirect 277
T5 fixtures that I wanted to use but eventually decided installing a buck
boost transformer and having a different voltage in the shop just wasn't
worth it.


What's the big deal? A single 24 V transformer in boost
configuration will drive all the lights. 277V is 115% of 240, and 264 V
(240+24) is within 5%. Standard light switches are rated for 277 volts.
80 watt lamp at 277 draws 0.2888 amps. Round that up to .3A per tube
for easy calculations. 40 Watt would be about .15A. 55 feet only has
room for a little over six eight foot fixtures in a single row, so the
maximum load would be .6A * 6 or 3.6A if all six fixtures are on. If he
used the other four fixtures over machines, that would be another 2.4A
for a total of 6A at 277 Volts. You don't need, or even want isolation
on the fixtures. The housings should be grounded, so a fault will blow a
fuse, or trip a breaker. They used to put a fuse in some brands of
eight foot fixtures, so a failure wouldn't take out all of the light
fixtures. Not a bad idea, but the fuses need to be rated for 600V
circuits to prevent a plasma arc inside the fuse.

You can even wire the fixtures to turn on pairs of tubes instead of
all four, with some ballasts.

I just went out and pulled down the (3) transformers on a board (G)
that were hooked up for buckboost. They are Acme 1kvas and I just
downloaded the data sheet from Acme. Shows exactly how to do it..and I
was right in my last post.

Thank you!! A life saver!!!

Ill put a fuse on the single input hot leg (H1X4) and one on the
single output leg. ( That will unfortunately leave me the H4 hot
....hummm..no..if I put it on the input side of the H4 pass
through...and another on the X1 output..thats three...hummm unless I
have some doubled breakers..that will cover the input and output side
with two (double) breakers. Or do you think I need to put fuses on
the output side and just a double breaker on the two input lines?

What would YOU do?

According to the data..this thing in buckboost will handle 41 amps and
Im not going to have more than about 15 amps worst case sceanario with
every light in the shop on at the same time.

My apologies..but I appear to have just discovered another hole in my
memory left over from the stroke. I know Ive done these before..quite
a few of them. In fact..the 3 phase buckboost I originally installed
some 10 or so years ago to get a machine up to voltage...as I
recall..they had about 190 volts in the shop..and the VFD was kicking
out with an undervoltage alarm..so I put this together and ran their
lathe until they redid the entire shop and service..and I got to
"scrap" it. VBG

And now Im relearning how to do it!! Yippeee!...sigh.
Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

Gunner wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 14:16:32 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


ATP wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:19:19 -0400, "ATP"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.


Your best bet is to install T8 fixtures over your machines and switch them
individually. You can get decent Lithonia fixtures at Home Depot with real
ballasts for pretty cheap money, at least here in NY. Payback on using T8
instead of T12 is quick, and task lighting is also a good way to save
money.
Buy a fixture at a time as you can afford it.

But which voltage?


I would just buy new 120v fixtures. I actually have some nice indirect 277
T5 fixtures that I wanted to use but eventually decided installing a buck
boost transformer and having a different voltage in the shop just wasn't
worth it.


What's the big deal? A single 24 V transformer in boost
configuration will drive all the lights. 277V is 115% of 240, and 264 V
(240+24) is within 5%. Standard light switches are rated for 277 volts.
80 watt lamp at 277 draws 0.2888 amps. Round that up to .3A per tube
for easy calculations. 40 Watt would be about .15A. 55 feet only has
room for a little over six eight foot fixtures in a single row, so the
maximum load would be .6A * 6 or 3.6A if all six fixtures are on. If he
used the other four fixtures over machines, that would be another 2.4A
for a total of 6A at 277 Volts. You don't need, or even want isolation
on the fixtures. The housings should be grounded, so a fault will blow a
fuse, or trip a breaker. They used to put a fuse in some brands of
eight foot fixtures, so a failure wouldn't take out all of the light
fixtures. Not a bad idea, but the fuses need to be rated for 600V
circuits to prevent a plasma arc inside the fuse.

You can even wire the fixtures to turn on pairs of tubes instead of
all four, with some ballasts.

I just went out and pulled down the (3) transformers on a board (G)
that were hooked up for buckboost. They are Acme 1kvas and I just
downloaded the data sheet from Acme. Shows exactly how to do it..and I
was right in my last post.

Thank you!! A life saver!!!

Ill put a fuse on the single input hot leg (H1X4) and one on the
single output leg. ( That will unfortunately leave me the H4 hot
...hummm..no..if I put it on the input side of the H4 pass
through...and another on the X1 output..thats three...hummm unless I
have some doubled breakers..that will cover the input and output side
with two (double) breakers. Or do you think I need to put fuses on
the output side and just a double breaker on the two input lines?

What would YOU do?



I would just use a 15 or 20 A double pole breaker on the prrimary,
and a 15 A 600 V rated fuse in the 264V output from the transformer. If
a fixture shorts, you'll lose the fuse. If the transformer fails or the
wiring is damaged, the breaker will trip. It will also remove all power
from the fixtures when you need to replace a ballast or socket.


According to the data..this thing in buckboost will handle 41 amps and
Im not going to have more than about 15 amps worst case sceanario with
every light in the shop on at the same time.

My apologies..but I appear to have just discovered another hole in my
memory left over from the stroke. I know Ive done these before..quite
a few of them. In fact..the 3 phase buckboost I originally installed
some 10 or so years ago to get a machine up to voltage...as I
recall..they had about 190 volts in the shop..and the VFD was kicking
out with an undervoltage alarm..so I put this together and ran their
lathe until they redid the entire shop and service..and I got to
"scrap" it. VBG

And now Im relearning how to do it!! Yippeee!...sigh.
Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 06:55:34 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.

The shop is unheated (California) but the winter temps do go down to
the high 30s at night in the winter time on occasion. Ive had some
lights have issues coming on at those temps in the past.

I scored a bunch of 8' (2 sets of (2) 4' tubes) fixtures that run on
277vts. Some 10 of them or more, with nice speckle covers that Id
like to put up and replace the single 4' fixtures.

Ive been using a couple 3 tube, 4' fixures that are already 277 volts
in odd areas and running them off a 240/120 single phase
transformer..hooked up backwards, with no issues, for a number of
years.

My "HV" (mains) standard power runs between 240 and 250 volts out in
the shop off the breaker panel, but Ive been concerned about isolating
the lamps so Ive used old machine tool transformers hooked up
backwards.

Ive been checking the "new" 4 tube fixtures out and they all seem to
fire up well and Ive got several new cases of 4' T12 bulbs in the
racks along with a partial case of T8 4' tubes. Ive stuck in T8s in
the older fixtures over the years and they work fine even missmatched
with a T12..but I generally replace both.

So at this point in time...Im getting ready to put up the 8'
fixtures..but Im concerned about how to power them up.

1. Is it "kosher" to simply hook them to an unused 240 single phase
breaker?
Why not? You are slightly underpowering them - but if they work you
most certainly will not be harming them.
2. Is it better to use a transformer and isolate them from the "mains
power"?

What do you expect this to accomplish?

3 If I should install a transformer...where do I find a 240-277 step
UP transformer cheaply? Or several of them (welding shop needs one as
well

4. How many watts does each 4' pair actually draw? 90 watts? Each of
the 8' fixtures has 2 ballasts, one for each 4' pair.

I tend to work out there at night..and with Pacific Greed and
Extortion charging me far more than the national average...my power
bills at HOME have been around $400 a month this summer. This with a
1hp swamp cooler motor running 24/7. (which really hurts!!!)

Id like to have lighting in the shop that will work for me..but doesnt
break the bank. Work has slowed down tremendously (not had a service
call in a week and a half) and its not going to get much better Im
afraid...California and the US manufacturing has just declined..yet
again.


Id like to find some pull chain lighting switches that I can mount on
each 8" fixture to either kill the entire fixture..or just half of it
(double ballests) and help keep the lighting costs down as well. Ebay
has "pull chain" switches for $4 each..but that will add up fairly
quickly if I install 10 lights.


Any suggestions/recommendations on setting up my lighting that will
not break the bank?


Thanks

Gunner
How about running two circuits - one on ballast #1, and one on
ballast #2 - with separate switches. You can light the whole fixture,
or either half, depending how much light you need. You could also add
a switch to drop out one half of the shop if you are only working in
the other half, so you could have the "active" end of the shop at full
or half, with the "inactive" end either on or off. Just 4 standard
switches.

Many other combinations available, Just remember, the pull-chain
switches NEED to be rated for 240 volts minimum.

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:01:13 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 14:16:32 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


ATP wrote:

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:19:19 -0400, "ATP"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.


Your best bet is to install T8 fixtures over your machines and switch them
individually. You can get decent Lithonia fixtures at Home Depot with real
ballasts for pretty cheap money, at least here in NY. Payback on using T8
instead of T12 is quick, and task lighting is also a good way to save
money.
Buy a fixture at a time as you can afford it.

But which voltage?


I would just buy new 120v fixtures. I actually have some nice indirect 277
T5 fixtures that I wanted to use but eventually decided installing a buck
boost transformer and having a different voltage in the shop just wasn't
worth it.


What's the big deal? A single 24 V transformer in boost
configuration will drive all the lights. 277V is 115% of 240, and 264 V
(240+24) is within 5%. Standard light switches are rated for 277 volts.
80 watt lamp at 277 draws 0.2888 amps. Round that up to .3A per tube
for easy calculations. 40 Watt would be about .15A. 55 feet only has
room for a little over six eight foot fixtures in a single row, so the
maximum load would be .6A * 6 or 3.6A if all six fixtures are on. If he
used the other four fixtures over machines, that would be another 2.4A
for a total of 6A at 277 Volts. You don't need, or even want isolation
on the fixtures. The housings should be grounded, so a fault will blow a
fuse, or trip a breaker. They used to put a fuse in some brands of
eight foot fixtures, so a failure wouldn't take out all of the light
fixtures. Not a bad idea, but the fuses need to be rated for 600V
circuits to prevent a plasma arc inside the fuse.

You can even wire the fixtures to turn on pairs of tubes instead of
all four, with some ballasts.


So let me get this straight..Im very weak here...

input side is 240vts. Output side is 24 or 32vts..simple step down
transformer, right?

Yup. You will have either 264 or 216. If 216, reverse the connections
on the 24 volt transformer secondary

Hook one side of the 240 volts to one 240 term..and wire a jumper
around to the low voltage side and connect to (1) 24 volt term

The othe 240 hot goes to the other 240 input term..

The remaining 24 volt OUTPUT terminal then becomes 264 volts output
along with the jumpered 240+24 volt tern?

Do I have that correct?
Correct. The secondary of the 24 volt trans just needs to be able to
handle the full load current.

And if so...where do you recommend I put the fuse(s), on both sides
of the transformer..single input and single output terminals?


Fuse the load and the transformer secondary (which are in series) or
simply fuse the parallel combination of the load and the transformer
primary. If you think you need to fuse anything beyond the panel
protection (fuse or breaker)
Im VERY weak on transformer work. Shrug. The stroke took a lot of
what I did know..away, from the looks of it.

I may..may have (3) decent sized "buckboost" transformers on a board
out on top of one of the racks. Used for bucking UP machine tool
voltages as I recall. Ill have to climb up and check. They were as I
recall..used on a 3 phase machine..hence 3 of them.

Gunner

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 20:13:04 -0400, BQ340
wrote:

On 9/9/2012 7:44 PM, wrote:
2. Is it better to use a transformer and isolate them from the "mains
power"?

What do you expect this to accomplish?

My parents house had all fluorescent fixtures in the basement except for
a single incandescent bulb all on one circuit, that bulb was frequently
blown by the mag ballast's spiking when turned off, so it can be good
to isolate fluorescent fixtures if electronics are on the same circuit.
MikeB
Except the isolation transformer will just pass the spike right
through. A surge protector might catch it.

On 2012-09-09, Gunner wrote:
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

[ ... ]

I scored a bunch of 8' (2 sets of (2) 4' tubes) fixtures that run on
277vts. Some 10 of them or more, with nice speckle covers that Id
like to put up and replace the single 4' fixtures.

[ ... ]

3 If I should install a transformer...where do I find a 240-277 step
UP transformer cheaply? Or several of them (welding shop needs one as
well

The cheapest way would be to get a step-*down* transformer which
goes from 240V to around 40V and hook it up with the primary across the
line, and the secondary in series with one side of the line phased so it
adds to the voltage (if it drops the voltage, just interchange the two
secondary wires).

Probably easier to find ones which put out 28 VAC, which will
get you up to 268 VAC -- close enough for most purposes -- especially
with your slightly higher line which I think that I already trimmed out.

4. How many watts does each 4' pair actually draw? 90 watts? Each of
the 8' fixtures has 2 ballasts, one for each 4' pair.

You really want the number of amps -- which can be higher than
the Watts would indicate. Do you have a clamp-on ammeter? If so, that
should tell you what you need. (The power factor in the ballast is
something which I could not predict.) But because the boost transformer
I described does not have to provide the current at the full voltage, it
can be smaller. A 28 VAC transformer at 1A is a lot smaller than a 277
VAC transformer at 1A (28 VA vs 277 VA -- so nearly a factor of ten in
the weight). And a 1A transformer can supply 268 VA boosting a 240 VAC
line.

I tend to work out there at night..and with Pacific Greed and
Extortion charging me far more than the national average...my power
bills at HOME have been around $400 a month this summer. This with a
1hp swamp cooler motor running 24/7. (which really hurts!!!)

Id like to have lighting in the shop that will work for me..but doesnt
break the bank. Work has slowed down tremendously (not had a service
call in a week and a half) and its not going to get much better Im
afraid...California and the US manufacturing has just declined..yet
again.

What would probably draw the least power would be LED lamps, but
the price on those is far from low enough yet -- aside from you not
being in a position to buy new which is all there is out there in the
LED family. So it would cost you less to *run*, but way too much to
*acquire*.

Id like to find some pull chain lighting switches that I can mount on
each 8" fixture to either kill the entire fixture..or just half of it
(double ballests) and help keep the lighting costs down as well. Ebay
has "pull chain" switches for $4 each..but that will add up fairly
quickly if I install 10 lights.


Any suggestions/recommendations on setting up my lighting that will
not break the bank?

Hmm ... how many relays can you find in the junk pile? Look for
ones with AC coils for 24 VAC, 120 VAC or 240 VAC -- whatever you have
most of. Set them up so you switch power to the relay coils from a
convenient location -- so turning off the power to one set of relays
will turn off half the lamps in each fixture. Turning off the power to
the other set will shut down the other half. Maybe set it up so a
rotary switch powers the coils. If you have a four-deck switch with
five rotary positions -- you can have it so fully CCW has all the lamps
off, one step up turns on 1/4 the lamps, the next step 1/2, the next
step 3/4 and the final step all of them.

If you have a bunch of solid state relays, you could use them
instead -- they use a lot less power (anything from 3VDC up to 32 VDC
IIRC) and almost no current.

If you want to be able to do it from multiple locations, replace
the rotary switch with a stepping switch. Wire it like the rotary
switch, but you have the ability to push a button to step it through the
positions from a number of locations around the shop. There was one
style of stepping switch by Automatic Electric which had two coils. One
would step it up from a rest position to any one of ten active
positions, and some of them had as many as four decks and wipers. So --
you push one button to increase the light, and another to turn them
*all* off at once.

Of course, you want a master disconnect to make it safe to work
on the circuits -- especially since it is possible for the SSR to fry in
the *on* state -- especially if there is nearby lighting.

If you already have stepping switches like these (eBay #
120645014544), you can wire them up so if you hold a button down, they
will keep stepping up so you hold the button down until it is bright
enough, or until it goes dark again.

BTW For anyone looking for stepper switches on eBay currently
*Beware*! A lot of what are being sold as stepper switches are
in reality only the bank of contacts, without the rotary wipers,
or in some cases with the wipers, but without the
electro-magnets which perform the stepping.

I was trying to find examples of the 10 position quick reset
ones to show you what to look for in the "pile of junk" -- but
nobody has them up for sale at the moment.

If you want more details, you have my e-mail address -- or can
recover it from what is posted with the instructions in my .sig below.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 10:21:04 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 10:19:19 -0400, "ATP"
wrote:


"Gunner" wrote in message
. ..
Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.


Your best bet is to install T8 fixtures over your machines and switch them
individually. You can get decent Lithonia fixtures at Home Depot with real
ballasts for pretty cheap money, at least here in NY. Payback on using T8
instead of T12 is quick, and task lighting is also a good way to save money.
Buy a fixture at a time as you can afford it.

But which voltage?


I've gotten panic phone calls from Kinkos locations: "They sent me a
277V Poster Laminator and the building only has 240V - HELP!" If you
really want to use up those fixtures till they die, go find yourself a
120/240V to 16V/32V "Buck-Boost" rated transformer.


They are NOT all suitable for Buck-Boost Autotransformer use - Read
The (Friendly) Manual, or the nameplate for mentions that it's
suitable, or get the make and model and pull up the cut-sheet before
you try it.

Some craptastic Lighting and Signal transformers use thin insulation
on the secondary that will break down seeing 277V to ground instead of
the 32V expected. Rule #1 - Magic Smoke Escape is bad.

Give it 240V in (always use a Handle-Tie 2-pole breaker!) and wire it
by the instructions for Boost, and you get 240+32= 272V Single Phase.
5V low = Close enough for Government Work.

A 1KW rated transformer will Boost like 3KW to 4KW of load - read the
instructions. The transformer "load" is all used to kick the output
voltage higher, and it's only a percentage of the total output. Again,
Read The (Friendly) Manual, it tells you how to calculate it.

And when you get new fixtures or replacement ballasts, get 120V.

Some of the fixtures are coming stock with Universal ballasts that
take whatever you feed them, be it 120 - 208 - 240 - 277V - Some even
take Japan's 100V 50Hz.

-- Bruce --

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:58:38 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

I just went out and pulled down the (3) transformers on a board (G)
that were hooked up for buckboost. They are Acme 1kvas and I just
downloaded the data sheet from Acme. Shows exactly how to do it..and I
was right in my last post.

Thank you!! A life saver!!!

Ill put a fuse on the single input hot leg (H1X4) and one on the
single output leg. ( That will unfortunately leave me the H4 hot
...hummm..no..if I put it on the input side of the H4 pass
through...and another on the X1 output..thats three...hummm unless I
have some doubled breakers..that will cover the input and output side
with two (double) breakers. Or do you think I need to put fuses on
the output side and just a double breaker on the two input lines?

What would YOU do?

According to the data..this thing in buckboost will handle 41 amps and
Im not going to have more than about 15 amps worst case sceanario with
every light in the shop on at the same time.

I wouldn't screw around with any fuses in the Buck-Boost transformer
at all - just feed it from a 2-pole 240V 20A breaker if you're using
all 12-gauge wiring, 15A breaker if some is 14 or16-ga cords.

If you want to save yourself some heartache, get panel-mount
fuseholders and 3A or 5A fast-blow fuses, put one on the side of each
fixture connected to the Hot lead to each ballast.

With a dozen fixtures in a Carport mounted at 8' - 9' it's not a huge
problem to track down a shorted ballast...

BUT it's a good habit to fuse 277V lights, because when you can put 30
to 50 High-Bay fixtures on the same 277V leg in a Warehouse, tracking
down a single shorted fixture will take you all day (or more) and
drive you nuts as they yell "What's taking you so long? We can't work
with the lights off!"

Whereas the one fixture with the burned ballast will pop it's fuse and
isolate itself - You find that fuse blown, check the ballast before
you replace the fuse.

-- Bruce --

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 19:44:03 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 06:55:34 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.

The shop is unheated (California) but the winter temps do go down to
the high 30s at night in the winter time on occasion. Ive had some
lights have issues coming on at those temps in the past.

I scored a bunch of 8' (2 sets of (2) 4' tubes) fixtures that run on
277vts. Some 10 of them or more, with nice speckle covers that Id
like to put up and replace the single 4' fixtures.

Ive been using a couple 3 tube, 4' fixures that are already 277 volts
in odd areas and running them off a 240/120 single phase
transformer..hooked up backwards, with no issues, for a number of
years.

My "HV" (mains) standard power runs between 240 and 250 volts out in
the shop off the breaker panel, but Ive been concerned about isolating
the lamps so Ive used old machine tool transformers hooked up
backwards.

Ive been checking the "new" 4 tube fixtures out and they all seem to
fire up well and Ive got several new cases of 4' T12 bulbs in the
racks along with a partial case of T8 4' tubes. Ive stuck in T8s in
the older fixtures over the years and they work fine even missmatched
with a T12..but I generally replace both.

So at this point in time...Im getting ready to put up the 8'
fixtures..but Im concerned about how to power them up.

1. Is it "kosher" to simply hook them to an unused 240 single phase
breaker?
Why not? You are slightly underpowering them - but if they work you
most certainly will not be harming them.
2. Is it better to use a transformer and isolate them from the "mains
power"?

What do you expect this to accomplish?

3 If I should install a transformer...where do I find a 240-277 step
UP transformer cheaply? Or several of them (welding shop needs one as
well

4. How many watts does each 4' pair actually draw? 90 watts? Each of
the 8' fixtures has 2 ballasts, one for each 4' pair.

I tend to work out there at night..and with Pacific Greed and
Extortion charging me far more than the national average...my power
bills at HOME have been around $400 a month this summer. This with a
1hp swamp cooler motor running 24/7. (which really hurts!!!)

Id like to have lighting in the shop that will work for me..but doesnt
break the bank. Work has slowed down tremendously (not had a service
call in a week and a half) and its not going to get much better Im
afraid...California and the US manufacturing has just declined..yet
again.


Id like to find some pull chain lighting switches that I can mount on
each 8" fixture to either kill the entire fixture..or just half of it
(double ballests) and help keep the lighting costs down as well. Ebay
has "pull chain" switches for $4 each..but that will add up fairly
quickly if I install 10 lights.


Any suggestions/recommendations on setting up my lighting that will
not break the bank?


Thanks

Gunner
How about running two circuits - one on ballast #1, and one on
ballast #2 - with separate switches. You can light the whole fixture,
or either half, depending how much light you need. You could also add
a switch to drop out one half of the shop if you are only working in
the other half, so you could have the "active" end of the shop at full
or half, with the "inactive" end either on or off. Just 4 standard
switches.

Many other combinations available, Just remember, the pull-chain
switches NEED to be rated for 240 volts minimum.

Arnt they so rated? I assumed (ass you and me..yah I know) that they
would be rated for at least that much. No true?

And thanks!!

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 20:13:04 -0400, BQ340
wrote:

On 9/9/2012 7:44 PM, wrote:
2. Is it better to use a transformer and isolate them from the "mains
power"?

What do you expect this to accomplish?

My parents house had all fluorescent fixtures in the basement except for
a single incandescent bulb all on one circuit, that bulb was frequently
blown by the mag ballast's spiking when turned off, so it can be good
to isolate fluorescent fixtures if electronics are on the same circuit.
MikeB

Indeed. While my shop has VFDs, and other Stuff..I like to keep it as
"clean" as possible. Ive had to hunt down too many issues in the
machine shops I service to jumble it all up

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 18:44:36 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


wrote:

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:16:22 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

My shop is full lighted with standard 8 foot fixtures. In really cold
mornings they are slow to come to full power also.
I used to just brush them with a corn broom to get them to "fire"


Sure, but that only works in Canada!

5W+ VHF or UHF two-way handheld radio, preferably on an unused
frequency. Stick the antenna between the bulbs, and sweep back and
forth while keyed, saying "AAAAAuudio!" - Bing! External Starter.

Still means you've got a lamp with a bad filament, or a weak ballast
that isn't putting out start pulses, or it's way cold below the rated
Start temperature. The first two need fixing.

-- Bruce --

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 23:48:55 -0700, "Bruce L. Bergman (munged human
readable)" wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 15:58:38 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

I just went out and pulled down the (3) transformers on a board (G)
that were hooked up for buckboost. They are Acme 1kvas and I just
downloaded the data sheet from Acme. Shows exactly how to do it..and I
was right in my last post.

Thank you!! A life saver!!!

Ill put a fuse on the single input hot leg (H1X4) and one on the
single output leg. ( That will unfortunately leave me the H4 hot
...hummm..no..if I put it on the input side of the H4 pass
through...and another on the X1 output..thats three...hummm unless I
have some doubled breakers..that will cover the input and output side
with two (double) breakers. Or do you think I need to put fuses on
the output side and just a double breaker on the two input lines?

What would YOU do?

According to the data..this thing in buckboost will handle 41 amps and
Im not going to have more than about 15 amps worst case sceanario with
every light in the shop on at the same time.

I wouldn't screw around with any fuses in the Buck-Boost transformer
at all - just feed it from a 2-pole 240V 20A breaker if you're using
all 12-gauge wiring, 15A breaker if some is 14 or16-ga cords.

If you want to save yourself some heartache, get panel-mount
fuseholders and 3A or 5A fast-blow fuses, put one on the side of each
fixture connected to the Hot lead to each ballast.

With a dozen fixtures in a Carport mounted at 8' - 9' it's not a huge
problem to track down a shorted ballast...

BUT it's a good habit to fuse 277V lights, because when you can put 30
to 50 High-Bay fixtures on the same 277V leg in a Warehouse, tracking
down a single shorted fixture will take you all day (or more) and
drive you nuts as they yell "What's taking you so long? We can't work
with the lights off!"

Whereas the one fixture with the burned ballast will pop it's fuse and
isolate itself - You find that fuse blown, check the ballast before
you replace the fuse.

-- Bruce --


Excellent suggestion!! I have a coffee can filled with new fuse
holders . Much obliged!!

Gunner

--
"Confronting Liberals with the facts of reality is very much akin to
clubbing baby seals. It gets boring after a while, but because Liberals are
so stupid it is easy work." Steven M. Barry

"Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)" wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 18:44:36 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


wrote:

On Sun, 9 Sep 2012 13:16:22 -0700, "Bob La Londe"
wrote:

My shop is full lighted with standard 8 foot fixtures. In really cold
mornings they are slow to come to full power also.
I used to just brush them with a corn broom to get them to "fire"


Sure, but that only works in Canada!

5W+ VHF or UHF two-way handheld radio, preferably on an unused
frequency. Stick the antenna between the bulbs, and sweep back and
forth while keyed, saying "AAAAAuudio!" - Bing! External Starter.

Still means you've got a lamp with a bad filament, or a weak ballast
that isn't putting out start pulses, or it's way cold below the rated
Start temperature. The first two need fixing.


Or the fixture isn't grounded. I ran into a new fixture that was
installed on old knob & tube wiring that was erratic. Touch the fixture
and it would light. I put a .01µF 2KV ceramic disk capacitor between
neutral & the floating fixture to cure it.

Gunner writes:


1. Is it "kosher" to simply hook them to an unused 240 single phase
breaker?

If the lamps fire on 240, I can't see any problem just using
240V. If they don't ignite, then boost may be necessary.
GE seems to say their magnetic 277V ones are rated
"Line Voltage Regulation (+/-) 5 %"
but not sure what that means... less light output at lower
voltage? Won't work at all?

Test a unit for 24H and see what temp the ballast is...

[There are no 240V one listed but the newest electronic ones are
often "120-277"...]

2. Is it better to use a transformer and isolate them from the "mains
power"?

While the 277V ballasts were manufactured to run from a 480
wye to neutral; I can not believe that they have one leg of the
input grounded. But measure with an ohmmeter, and be sure. And do a
bench test with a unit safely fused.


4. How many watts does each 4' pair actually draw? 90 watts? Each of
the 8' fixtures has 2 ballasts, one for each 4' pair.

Measure. Best way would be a test setup with a 120V - 240/277
transformer, and then put a Kill-A-Watt
http://www.p3international.com/products/special/p4400/p4400-ce.html
in the 120 supply. This will tell you the true watts of a
fixture, and the current & power factor. {Watts * time is what
you pay PGE for; but the transformers are limited by current....

Id like to find some pull chain lighting switches that I can mount on
each 8" fixture to either kill the entire fixture..or just half of it

Read what DoN said about relays. Control the fixtures with relays
to gain the flexibility you want. Note the tradeoffs in lamp
life with cycling.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_ballast#Fluorescent_lamp_ballasts

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
... So, they posted on the big-screen,
"Take 'Coverage' in the concourses and ramps."
...

That's pathetic, everyone knows it's "concouri" G.

Bob Engelhardt fired this volley in
:

That's pathetic, everyone knows it's "concouri" G.

heh! Good!
Lloyd

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 23:52:34 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 19:44:03 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 09 Sep 2012 06:55:34 -0700, Gunner
wrote:

Ive got a shop 14' wide by 55' long

For years Ive had a series of 4' double tube florescent fixtures
hanging and have had no issues with them.

The shop is unheated (California) but the winter temps do go down to
the high 30s at night in the winter time on occasion. Ive had some
lights have issues coming on at those temps in the past.

I scored a bunch of 8' (2 sets of (2) 4' tubes) fixtures that run on
277vts. Some 10 of them or more, with nice speckle covers that Id
like to put up and replace the single 4' fixtures.

Ive been using a couple 3 tube, 4' fixures that are already 277 volts
in odd areas and running them off a 240/120 single phase
transformer..hooked up backwards, with no issues, for a number of
years.

My "HV" (mains) standard power runs between 240 and 250 volts out in
the shop off the breaker panel, but Ive been concerned about isolating
the lamps so Ive used old machine tool transformers hooked up
backwards.

Ive been checking the "new" 4 tube fixtures out and they all seem to
fire up well and Ive got several new cases of 4' T12 bulbs in the
racks along with a partial case of T8 4' tubes. Ive stuck in T8s in
the older fixtures over the years and they work fine even missmatched
with a T12..but I generally replace both.

So at this point in time...Im getting ready to put up the 8'
fixtures..but Im concerned about how to power them up.

1. Is it "kosher" to simply hook them to an unused 240 single phase
breaker?
Why not? You are slightly underpowering them - but if they work you
most certainly will not be harming them.
2. Is it better to use a transformer and isolate them from the "mains
power"?

What do you expect this to accomplish?

3 If I should install a transformer...where do I find a 240-277 step
UP transformer cheaply? Or several of them (welding shop needs one as
well

4. How many watts does each 4' pair actually draw? 90 watts? Each of
the 8' fixtures has 2 ballasts, one for each 4' pair.

I tend to work out there at night..and with Pacific Greed and
Extortion charging me far more than the national average...my power
bills at HOME have been around $400 a month this summer. This with a
1hp swamp cooler motor running 24/7. (which really hurts!!!)

Id like to have lighting in the shop that will work for me..but doesnt
break the bank. Work has slowed down tremendously (not had a service
call in a week and a half) and its not going to get much better Im
afraid...California and the US manufacturing has just declined..yet
again.


Id like to find some pull chain lighting switches that I can mount on
each 8" fixture to either kill the entire fixture..or just half of it
(double ballests) and help keep the lighting costs down as well. Ebay
has "pull chain" switches for $4 each..but that will add up fairly
quickly if I install 10 lights.


Any suggestions/recommendations on setting up my lighting that will
not break the bank?


Thanks

Gunner
How about running two circuits - one on ballast #1, and one on
ballast #2 - with separate switches. You can light the whole fixture,
or either half, depending how much light you need. You could also add
a switch to drop out one half of the shop if you are only working in
the other half, so you could have the "active" end of the shop at full
or half, with the "inactive" end either on or off. Just 4 standard
switches.

Many other combinations available, Just remember, the pull-chain
switches NEED to be rated for 240 volts minimum.

Arnt they so rated? I assumed (ass you and me..yah I know) that they
would be rated for at least that much. No true?

Some are only rated for 125 volts AC

And thanks!!

Gunner