I'm trying to come up with a lighting plan for a galley style 8'x11'
kitchen (the link to the layout is
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/kitc...1334403598.jpg)

For general lighting, I'm considering three 5" or 6" cans about 34"
apart as seen. I would prefer the kitchen to be a little over lit. Any
suggestions for the wattage and trim?

I will have undercabinet lights, so I'm not considering lighting the
countertops from the ceilings; however, what I would like to do is to
somehow "accent light" (wall wash ?) the new wall cabinets. They are
dark cherry (like mahogany with reddish overtones) and look really good
when lit. The cabinets are 42" tall and moulding will be 4" (flush with
ceiling) as seen in the drawing. I did an experiment with a 3" MR16
pointed at the middle of a cabinet door (down about 25" from the
ceiling). I placed the light source about 15" from the cabinet angled
at about 30 deg from the vertical. The result was good, but since all
the cabinets are not installed yet, I'm a little reluctant to begin
cutting holes in the ceiling drywall until I'm sure what I'm doing
makes sense. So, I have couple of questions:

- Is wall washing the cabinets this way common; i.e. using an angled
(adjustable) trim (at 30 deg)? Is there a better way? Will a wall wash
trim do the job better than a retractable eyeball, gimbal, etc.?

- I'm considering 3" line voltage cans (with GU10s) (new
construction) or low voltage cans with individual transformers
(remodeling) probably with 35W-50W MR16s. If I use halogen at about
15"-20" from the cabinet surface, will the heat cause any problems? Any
cooler halogens (does dichroic coating make it cooler - not the light
but the heat coming from the lamp)?

- if I install regular downlights (not at an angle) pointing toward the
edge of the counter (24" from the wall, 12" from the wall cabinet
surface), will it have the same "wall wash" effect? (Actually when I
tried it, it didn't look like the same as pointing directly at the
cabinet surface, but I might be mistaken.)

- I'm planning to use 1 can for each door (they are 16-18" wide). Is
this too much?

I really appreciate all the suggestions..

Regards,
Matt

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm trying to come up with a lighting plan for a galley style 8'x11'
kitchen (the link to the layout is
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/kitc...1334403598.jpg)
For general lighting, I'm considering three 5" or 6" cans about 34"
apart as seen. I would prefer the kitchen to be a little over lit. Any
suggestions for the wattage and trim?
I will have undercabinet lights, so I'm not considering lighting the
countertops from the ceilings; however, what I would like to do is to
somehow "accent light" (wall wash ?) the new wall cabinets. They are
dark cherry (like mahogany with reddish overtones) and look really good
when lit. The cabinets are 42" tall and moulding will be 4" (flush with
ceiling) as seen in the drawing. I did an experiment with a 3" MR16
pointed at the middle of a cabinet door (down about 25" from the
ceiling). I placed the light source about 15" from the cabinet angled
at about 30 deg from the vertical. The result was good, but since all
the cabinets are not installed yet, I'm a little reluctant to begin
cutting holes in the ceiling drywall until I'm sure what I'm doing
makes sense. So, I have couple of questions:
- Is wall washing the cabinets this way common; i.e. using an angled
(adjustable) trim (at 30 deg)? Is there a better way? Will a wall wash
trim do the job better than a retractable eyeball, gimbal, etc.?
- I'm considering 3" line voltage cans (with GU10s) (new
construction) or low voltage cans with individual transformers
(remodeling) probably with 35W-50W MR16s. If I use halogen at about
15"-20" from the cabinet surface, will the heat cause any problems? Any
cooler halogens (does dichroic coating make it cooler - not the light
but the heat coming from the lamp)?
- if I install regular downlights (not at an angle) pointing toward the
edge of the counter (24" from the wall, 12" from the wall cabinet
surface), will it have the same "wall wash" effect? (Actually when I
tried it, it didn't look like the same as pointing directly at the
cabinet surface, but I might be mistaken.)
- I'm planning to use 1 can for each door (they are 16-18" wide). Is
this too much?

I really appreciate all the suggestions..

Sorry, this is kinda long and rambling. Looking back on the remodel last
year, I realize that lighting planning is the crux of a good kitchen result,
and of course cannot easily be altered once the whole project is completed.
For my overhead lighting I used 50w low volt mr16 track mounted halogens,
and used twelve of these bulbs to light a 12x14 kitchen. I wanted more
"aim-ability" than can or down lights allowed.Max wattage was more than I
needed, but I have dimmers on all the lighting circuits, for better light
control, so max wattage limit is not really a concern. Even with undercab
lighting, I aimed a few of the ceiling lights at darker areas of the
countertops, as undercab lighting can have darker areas near the front of
the counters. For washing cabinet fronts (in my utility room) I used 120v
50w PAR20 bulbs mounted in gimbaled eyeball mounts. They work great, and are
easy to install, and you dont have the scores of wattages and many
beam-width choices of the mr16's, which can be confusing. The lights are
about 40 in. apart, point vertically down, and the spread is good enuf - one
per door panel would be too much for this bright and floody par20 bulb. For
undercabinet I used low volt xenon modular lights that have two brightness
settings, switched from the kitchen entry. They work fine, and heat is not a
problem, but these are smaller units than the MR16's you are contemplating.
Still, I doubt the 35 watt halogens will be a problem, as long as you use
fixtures designed for these bulbs. For all critical choices I bought just
one unit of each kind of lighting - ceiling, wall wash, undercabinet, and
top cabinet rope lighting. Then I tested them at the heights i planned, and
got a really good idea about spacing, ranges, and wattage, before committing
to the whole light order.
Some of the online suppliers I have been happy with are www.rlights.com,
where i bot the undercab Kichler modular xenon lights (i think i used 25w
bulbs) - the service, prices and product is great. The quality of the xenon
light is comparable to halogen, but slightly truer, less yellow cast.
For the MR16 ceiling fixtures I ordered from Eclectic Lighting in San
Antonio - I forget the web address. Only fair service but very low prices
for WAC Lighting, which I like.
Ordered the rope lighting from noveltylights.com. If you have space between
your ceiling and cabinet tops, you may wish to light this area a bit, just
to cut shadows.
Good luck.

Undercabinet T8 flourescent with warm white type bulb, cans in front of
cabinet doors hitting counters with spot halogen and a ceiling fixture
of flourescent provide good light, You never have enough light in a
kitchen. On 3 dimmers in a kitchen the same size I have apx 2000 w
equivalent of dimmeble light. 6 cans and just undercabinet are not
enough light to light a kitchen.

Are you planning on a ceiling fan in the room?

Thanks for all the responses.

Doug, no I'm not going to install a ceiling fan; there is plenty of A/C
in the kitchen.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for all the responses.

Doug, no I'm not going to install a ceiling fan; there is plenty of A/C
in the kitchen.


OK....because can lights, if too close to the fan, will produce sort of
fluttery illumination when the fan is turning. Very annoying.

Short and simple reply, maybe...

- Is wall washing the cabinets this way common; i.e. using an angled
(adjustable) trim (at 30 deg)? Is there a better way? Will a wall wash
trim do the job better than a retractable eyeball, gimbal, etc.?

+This much detail is only common when somebody gets bitten by the
"lighting bug."
Wall washers will definitely do a better job, and not hang down below
the ceiling! That is exactly what they are designed for. The Prescolite
LVH4-LV6 is my favorite. See
http://www.prescolite.com/product/Productsweb.nsf/0/41F168205DE0285E85256B29007B22DD/$FILE/ARCH-INC-006_LVH4.pdf?OpenElement

- I'm considering 3" line voltage cans (with GU10s) (new
construction) or low voltage cans with individual transformers
(remodeling) probably with 35W-50W MR16s. If I use halogen at about
15"-20" from the cabinet surface, will the heat cause any problems? Any

cooler halogens (does dichroic coating make it cooler - not the light
but the heat coming from the lamp)?

+ The dichroic coating lets most of the infrared energy go out the back
of the bulb. This keeps the beam cooler.

- if I install regular downlights (not at an angle) pointing toward the

edge of the counter (24" from the wall, 12" from the wall cabinet
surface), will it have the same "wall wash" effect? (Actually when I
tried it, it didn't look like the same as pointing directly at the
cabinet surface, but I might be mistaken.)

+ What you saw is what you would get. You might also want to look at
the various lenses and shades for MR16s. They are wonderful when you
want to fine tune the beam shape, smoothness, glare or even color. They
fit with or instead of the glass cover over the lamp. See the
manufacturers accessories and then know that there are more!

- I'm planning to use 1 can for each door (they are 16-18" wide). Is
this too much?

+Some would say yes other no. It is a lot depending on your final
selection of lamp. It is also somewhat expensive. As Rodger noted the
PAR lamps are far cheaper and simpler, but they are not as effective or
flexible. All professional lighting designers prefer MR16s (or very
similar) for detail controlled light.

Good Luck
Richard Reid, LC
Luminous Views
www.luminousviews.com

wrote in news:1136435449.350294.270470
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

I'm trying to come up with a lighting plan for a galley style 8'x11'
kitchen (the link to the layout is
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/kitc...1334403598.jpg)

Hmm -- lots of lights there (probably too many). We used the same lights
(MR16, 50W, super wide flood), and the lighting designer suggested one
light every 4 feet, running down the center of the isle between the
cabinets. We then added in under cabinet lighting and three pendant lights
over the island. The end result works great, and is very bright when all
lit up.

--
Murray Peterson